From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 6 06:03:32 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f36A3VN25679 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:03:31 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f368x9511753 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f368x8811750 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24000 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f368A3Y28607 for lro-digest-gone; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:10:03 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:10:03 -0400 Message-Id: <200104060810.f368A3Y28607@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #316 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 316 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:34:17 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Ketchikan, Alaska Hi all, Good friend of mine will be leaving Georgia in August to take up residence in Ketchikan, Alaska and seeks a late IIa or III 109 SW. Anyone out that way? Thanks, Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:17:04 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Newly-acquired NAS SIII Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:29:09 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" Subject: LRO: Newly-acquired NAS SIII >I took the plunge and purchased a 1973 NAS SIII to keep my Disco II company. I am having it shipped from Florida and it will eventually end up in Manchester, Vermont. Anyone know good mechanics around there? Also, I am trying to locate a mint condition set of delivery documents like the owners manual, a dealer list, passport ot service, etc. I have the originals but they are tatty. Rovers North, probably the best Land Rover parts and technical information source in the US, is located in Westford, Vermont. They have a website, or you can call them at (802)879-0032. I'm sure they can help you find someone who can work on your vehicle. Finding a set of mint-condition documents will not be easy. I have all the papers that came with my SIII in 1973, and they are all in pretty good shape except the owner's manual, which got used a lot. You can get reprints of the manuals from the LRO (Land Rover Owner Magazine International) bookshop (they have a website). But if you want original manuals, Passport to Service, etc., I suspect that might be hard. One thing you might try is to contact some very established Land Rover dealers in the UK. It's remotely conceivable that they might have a stash of some of these pamphlets, manuals, etc. in a box in the back room. It's not likely, but it is possible.... There are people who collect these kinds of things, and you might be able to locate someone either through this list or through the club lists in magazines like LROI. You might want to contact the Land Rover "museum" in the UK. What is it called, the Dunsfold (sp?) Trust? They have a large collection of old, stock Land Rovers and they may have a lot of the paperwork that went with them. If they only have a few examples of the Series III Passport to Service, they probably wouldn't want to part with them. But you never know what they might have until you ask. Another potential source of the whereabouts of this sort of material is James Taylor (not the singer). He used to write the Land Rover history articles for LROI magazine, but I believe he's shifted over to Land Rover World or Land Rover Magazine (LRM). He seems to be a wealth of knowledge about the vehicle's history, and he might have some leads for tracking down what you're after. At least you have the original documents, however tatty they may be. If nothing else, perhaps an experienced book restoration firm could do something with them so they at least don't get any worse. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:28:19 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: LRs in WWII movies Though some Shermans did have the radial engine, think it was not the standard engine. Think the radial was in the ones designed for wading at Normandy. Don't know what the standard engine was though it was gasoline and prone to barbecuing its crew. How did the Israelis modify the Sherman?? They supposedly modified them so they were quite a good tank. They used them at least into the 70's, I think because of these mod's. Aloha Peter >From: "Larry Smith" >No, actually a Wright Whirlwind radial. Quite reliable actually. >Non-synchro transmission. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:32:05 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Newly-acquired NAS SIII If you don't mind my asking.. who did you secure your Land Rover from? I am wondering if it is someone I am trying to contact (Tony Woodward). Thanks, - -Perrone > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On > Behalf Of Faure, Marin > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:17 PM > To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' > Cc: 'kwkrauss@knlaw.net' > Subject: LRO: Re: Newly-acquired NAS SIII > > > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:29:09 -0400 > From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" > Subject: LRO: Newly-acquired NAS SIII > > >I took the plunge and purchased a 1973 NAS SIII to keep my Disco II > company. I am having it shipped from Florida and it will eventually end > up in Manchester, Vermont. Anyone know good mechanics around there? > Also, I am trying to locate a mint condition set of delivery documents > like the owners manual, a dealer list, passport ot service, etc. I have > the originals but they are tatty. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:34:49 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: power Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:14:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: re: power >And yeah, I do know how to use my delete button, but the non LR stuff is getting a tad thick lately dontchy'all think? So what would you like to talk about? The torque settings for a Series door hinge bolt? There is nothing stopping anyone from posting "legitimate" Land Rover messages to this forum, however you define those. Someone's comment on nuclear power does not automatically delete someone else's comment on clutch bleeding. If we followed your rules and posted strictly Land Rover messages, I suspect this group would soon be as boring as the ones supporting other makes that I've looked at occasionally. I get the digest and scroll down the list of posts scanning the subject lines. I read what looks interesting and ignore the rest. Sometimes there's nothing on the list that looks interesting to me, so I've spent what, 30 seconds? Other times there are things that appear interesting, so I spend more time. But maybe all e-mail systems don't work like the ones I have at work and at home. Maybe having a lot of messages in a digest bogs your computer down something fierce. I know people who were on systems in the UK awhile back that had this problem with a canalboat digest. So if that's what's prompted your complaint about the content of the list, I don't have an answer but I sympathize with your software frustration. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:54:29 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: LRO: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard (Long and Bitter) > worthless lumps we're installing. Alas, I'm certain that 20 year old kids > in the year 2001 will understand that we so poorly engineered these things > that they have to be rebuilt by their owners to be any good First of all, how much class you have at making an attack on such a personal level. Do you feel better now? I don't particularly feel I should even respond to your post, but I will as it makes a blatantly obvious attack to me. Unless you were thinking of another 20 yr old who has done an engine change. Bravo, what a coup. I'm sorry to say I am sinking to your level in the following. I'm so glad you feel this way. It makes me want to keep on going and swap out those rover axles for the Dana's (Not salisburys. Danas), and run my 8 bolt wheels, when I see a spark plug collecting purist like yourself being up in arms about cutting up a IIA. It makes me realise that by cutting up a Land-Rover, I am distancing myself from you gang of wackos that think a beat up III is a prime example of automotive engineering, and should be restored to as-new condition. After all, once I'm done, I'll be able to say that even with a simple body left, I'll still have more rover in my ford than you have in that restored beauty of yours. I'm happy to say that I will soon have another pair of land rovers, both IIA's, on in extremely good original shape, in my posession, bringing the total up to 4. It makes me feel good that I know these will not end up as jewellery in some old guy's garage, rotting there, because he gets a kick of having boys look at it at car shows. I'm glad they will end up being used like they were used for the past 30 years, as daily drivers, as snowplows. My new IIA will be stock however, as I like original things as well, but I can assure you I will do everything in my power as to assure it does not end up in the hands of a collector like yourself. By trying to preserve utmost correctness, you are stripping your land rover of the very spirit that makes it a L-R. J-L > > All this engine swapping nonsense shows a complete lack of understanding of > Rover's history and how the Land-Rover came about. I guess that's what > happens when people buy them because they "look cool". The cool looks wear > thin after a short while and they can't and don't satisfy these peoples' > need for a modern car and, thus, they start in on engine conversions. It's > too bad that perspective buyers can't rent a Series Land-Rover for a couple > of weeks to find out if they really do want one. (Before any of you get > any ideas, I thought of this renting scheme first!) I have an idea that > most would shy away from them and be asking for a refund, probably before > the lease contract had more than a few days used up. (Personally, if I had > such a Land-Rover leasing business, I'd only rent them out during December > and January and make certain that the only heater allowed to be installed > in my fleet would be the infamous Smiths shin-burners. I'd also only rent > Is, IIs and IIAs with no overdrives and the earlier transmissions with > unsynchronized first and second gears. That ought to cure the "man those > things look cool" crowd in no time.) > > About seven years ago, being an admirer of all things Rover, I nearly > bought a '66 Rover 2000SC from a college student: it had been bought > merely based on the fact that it "was funky". The idiot hadn't a clue > about how to care for the car and used DOT 3 to top off the fluid > reservoir. Naturally, the rubber in the brake system quickly > self-destructed and to alleviate the problem, a bottle of "Heavy Duty DOT > 3" was purchased (I found the bottle in the boot.) Of course, the car > wouldn't stop and since the kid was too dumb and proud to ask a question or > try to analyze what had gone wrong, the car was for sale as someone else's > problem to solve. The deal fell through and I later found out that a > salvage yard was called to haul the car away. I was told the kid got paid > $25 for the "funky car." The moral is that if the kid had bother to learn > something about the car, it might still be on the road rather than having > been crushed. What a shame, it was a really nice, original P6. > > Hot rods hold no appeal for me. I was en route to Asheville, NC about a > year ago and decided to stay over in Pigeon Forge, TN and drive through the > Smokies to get to Asheville. Unbeknownst to me, there was a hot rod meet > going on and the things were everywhere--like flies on fresh... Anyhow, > being a car nut, I felt that I had to take a few minutes to at least look > at the ones in the hotel parking lot before I left. There they were: > Fords with Chevy engines, Chryslers with Ford engines and Chevys with Ford > powerplants, etc. The interiors were completely modified and basically the > cars were unidentifiable save for the body shells they were built up from. > Some were for sale and I couldn't believe the asking prices. Needless to > say, there were few buyers and I walked away wondering how a price could be > set on these contraptions. What's a 1940s Chevy bodyshell with a > late-model Ford engine and a Pontiac rear end worth? Who knows. One thing > I was surprised to learn was that there are companies out there that > essentially sell their customers all the parts needed to "build up" certain > cars that are popular hot rod targets. Build a hot rod by the numbers, or > something like that. At least this ensures that some level of proper > engineering goes into the end result. In the midst of all these hot rods > was a lost looking and completely stock Triumph TR6. I spent more time > examining it than all the hundreds of Yank Tank hot rods combined. > > The thing that bothers me about these homemade hybrids is that they are not > being designed by automotive engineers. For that matter, they're not even > being approached in a very scientific manner at all. Engineering or > re-engineering a car is not for amateurs; for that matter, even the experts > can develop things that are deathtraps (the grossly overpowered Sunbeam > Tiger and A.C. Cobra are prime examples of a legitimate [i.e. > factory-built] hybrids that could be downright dangerous in the hands of an > inexperienced driver.) I have to seriously question the abilities of some > of the people currently contemplating re-engineering their Land-Rovers. Do > these people have the capabilities to perform testing with computer models > of how all their modifications will work out? I doubt it. They certainly > can't build a series prototypes to help envision what the finished > product's dynamics will be like. Most car companies build test mule after > mule in an attempt to get everything right. With these amateur engine > swaps, it's simply a matter of do it and hope for the best. And what > happens when they fail to create the ultimate Land-Rover-bodied bastard? > It will be difficult to find a buyer for the thing who wants to drive it > (especially if the truth is revealed about what a mess the vehicle is) and, > sadly, prices for scrap iron and aluminum have plummeted in recent years. > > Someone mentioned that these "hybrids" are an essential part of > Land-Rover's history--that the make's history has been recorded and written > with these creations as an integral part thereof. I would argue that they > are not even a footnote. Does the Motor Heritage Trust go out seeking > hacked up Land-Rovers with Iron Dukes in them? Hardly. What is in their > collection? Vehicles like HUE 166--which was bought back from a farmer who > had owned and used it for years and hadn't "re-engined" it. Does anyone > ever discussed these vehicles after the fact? I've never heard anyone > concerning themselves about John Q. Public's Volkswagen-diesel powered > Land-Rover bodied bastard after John Q. does his conversion--no one cares > after a few months or years. If these things are so important in the > greater scheme of Land-Rover history, why aren't they detailed and > discussed in depth in books dealing with Land-Rover history? Could it be > because they aren't part of the history that the manufacturer was > responsible for? Obviously, the manufacturer (as well as many others) does > not recognize the Land-Rover-bodied bastards as being Land-Rovers and why > should they? They aren't anything more than a Land-Rover bodyshell in the > end. > > Speaking of hot rods, there's an interesting one locally--it's based on a > Citroen 15CV. Yes, it's fascinating that someone put a Chevy engine and > rear end in it, though what a shame to chop up what is a quite scarce car > on this side of the Atlantic. In this transition, it's lost all of its > original French charm that made it uniquely Citroen; now it's just a > collection of parts. Hell, it's even lost its famous "traction avant" in > this futile attempt to create a better Big 15. Is there a single auto > museum that would want this thing in their collection? I doubt the Henry > Ford Museum or Harrah's have been in contact. Basically, that's the > problem with cutting up and mutilating a Land-Rover: what these Land-Rover > engine swappers are doing is creating collections of unrelated parts that > have no value except to their owners and no provenance. These conversions > have no future because they have no regard for the past. > > Brian Willoughby > 1960 Land-Rover Series II 88" S.W.--"The Lady Eleanor" > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:13:59 -0400 From: "James G.Wolf" Subject: LRO: Darkness > >No, don't worry. It's too dark in California for anyone to find their >way out, so I wouldn't expect to see anyone from that state up >here in the foreseeable future (thank God...) Hey Marin, as they said in "The Never Endin Story" the darkness is on the move in the land!! Better buy lots of batteries. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:30:09 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Don't read this if all you are interested in is Land Rovers. Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:42:26 -0400 From: "Paul Gussack" Subject: LRO: RE: Wasted Yutes attn: Marin >You lambaste the "eco-freaks" as misinformed youths who protest and get results through their actions. This is something we, as any citizen, have the right in the U. S. to do. Yes, it is, but that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that there is an increasing lack of understanding of the relationships between issues. I agree it sometimes takes extreme measures to bring a problem to the attention of the people who can do something about it. But what I'm seeing is an increasing tendency to "knee-jerk" a solution, instead of applying logic and reason to finding a long-term solution that will have the best results across the board. >In most cases the protests are not blow up the plants and go back to sticks and stones but to reevaluate how these operations are run. I think that's the intention of SOME of the protesters. But as we've seen right here in Seattle, for example, what starts out as a legitimate and well-reasoned demonstration to make a point turns into an excuse for violence, irrational actions, and uncompromising positions. >The bottom line is don't complain to the list about what you don't like, write your government. They will listen. I honestly believe that. One of the DISadvantages of getting older is that you realize how ineffectual government really is. After all, government isn't an entity of itself, its just a collection of people doing different jobs. As such, all the problems you find in any company or industry are present in government, only there isn't the pressure to make a profit. So government tends to become a catch-all for folks who would not be very successful in private industry or business. The thing that gets results in government is greed. Same as outside the government. Greed is a short-term catalyst. "I want it now." Which brings me back to my original point, which is that more and more decisions are being made with less and less thought to the long-term consequences. Age has nothing to do with this, by the way. Sure, it'd be great to have a pollution-free world. Maybe people will get there someday if they don't kill each other off first. But arbitrarily throwing people out of work in the name of "progress" isn't necessarily the best way to do it. It's easy for us to discuss the situation at the mill in Bellingham on this list. None of us work there, so far as I know. It's a news item, a statistic, an example that you and I are using to make our points. But try to put yourself in the position of one of those mill workers for a moment. You're 50 years old, have eight years with the company, a family, aren't qualified for retirement benefits yet, and you have a job that provides sufficient income to support your family and allows you to enjoy some perks, like ordering a Turner unleaded head for your Land Rover rebuild project. Then you're told that in 90 days, no more job. At 50, you're not going to become a dot.com whiz. That may be the future for your kids, but you're not thinking about that, you're wondering what are YOU going to do next. You're not going to go out to dinner anymore, which means your favorite restaurant loses some business. Multiply this by the number of people out of work, and maybe the restaurant has to close or lay off staff. You're going to cancel the Turner unleaded head order. Maybe that's the straw that breaks the parts supplier's back, and they decide to bail on the Land Rover business. That potentially affects all of us on this list. Everything's connected, but fewer and fewer people seem to see that. Hoof and mouth disease, or the threat of it, is devastating farmers throughout the UK. We all know that, we hear about it on the news. But my friend who owns a canalboat hire company in Middlewich is on the verge of going out of business, too. Why? Because the government is restricting all forms of travel, and canals pass through a lot of dairy and sheep country. His bookings were up for this year, but now his boats can't move. I'm not making a statement about the policies in the UK about hoof and mouth, simply trying to illustrate that you can't do one thing and expect nothing else to be affected. The one thing you can count on these days is that nobody, regardless of age, is invulnerable to being thrown out of work. Put yourself in the position of a millworker in Bellingham, and then think about the uncompromising attitude of the environmental groups, the power companies, and the local, state, and federal governments that caused this to happen. I'm sorry this doesn't contain information on how to bleed a clutch or what adapter to use to put a Pratt & Whitney R-985 Wasp Jr. into a Series IIa. But I think it's an important thing to be thinking about. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:52:33 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: LRO: Coil and Flasher curve off the RPM, Pretty common these days, Some times done by the ECU, but mostly by the ignitor Chris Hall On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:04:34 -0400 "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" writes: > > it preforms dwell compensation. > > How is it managing that? Vacuum attachment, or a curve off RPM? > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:21:23 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Engine Balancing To add to this the parts aren't out of balance by design. Manufacturing tolerances are the cause of balance problems. You just might have the engine where every thing went right and it will be in balance already. If you don't have a good relationship with the shop they will still charge you full price to just check a well balanced engine, and then tell you how much work it was to get your engine balanced. Chris hall On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:20:02 -0500 Bill Adams writes: > Balancing only means that the pistons, con rods and crankshaft will > be > checked to see if they are within 1-2 grams of one another. The > crank > gets spun and checked for harmonic imbalance. > All this is to help when she spins up to high rpms. At lower, like > 3K > and below, the forces aren't all that great to necessitate the > effort. > > -- > Bill Adams > 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director > International Broadcasting Bureau > Washington, D.C. > 202-205-9638 > badams@ibb.gov > > > '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel > '81 GoldWing > '69 Le Sabre Convertible > '63 Pearson Vanguard > "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:16:34 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Power OK lets try three mile island, 23rd anniversary was last week. If the operators had let the automated controls handle it, it would have been no problem. Not much radioactive release but very close to core melt. Chris hall On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:18:21 -0700 "Faure, Marin" writes: > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:09:23 -0300 > From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) > Subject: Re: LRO: Power (was wasted youth) > > >However to all those who try to assure us that nuclear is non > poluting > have you so soon forgotten Chernobyl. > > The problem with using Chernobyl as an example of the nuclear power > > generation industry in action is that the Chernobyl plant was a > shining > example of how to do everything wrong in designing, operating, and > maintaining a nuclear power plant. If that type of plant was > state-of- > the-art in nuclear power plants, then I would agree nuclear's not a > good > way to go. But in fact, a nuclear plant can be designed, operated, > and > maintained to be as reliable and safe as any other form of power > generation > except possibly hydro. > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > > _________________________________________ > C. Marin Faure > Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services > telephone (425)393-7721 > mobile (206)650-5622 > fax: (425)393-7741 > e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:02:44 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: Power >The spent fuel problem has been solved. It can be buried in a number of >geologically safe areas where it could be left to decay into anonimity. Yeah, that's a practical solution. Land fills are running out of room all over the place, but that wouldn't happen with spent fuel dumps. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:10:37 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) Hey fellows, I now own two cars older than me. Sorry my latest acquisition isn't a rover. I'm about to start a frameover on Mrs. Merdle (65 IIA) and was planning on buying a bicycle or using LPCs (Leather Personnel Carriers) to get wherever I went, but then a cool Mercedes I walk by every day on my way to class turned up with a "For Sale" sign in it one a.m. It's a '67 250SE. Test drove and compression tested it tonight. Not mint, but probably cooler for all the quirks. The guy kept telling me what didn't work and I kept saying "I haven't had that for 5 years now." So now I can start the frameover, and when I realize I need more bolts (I initially typed "nuts" but then had to change it to bolts b/c of all you dirty-minded rover owners out there) I can drive to the store for 'em. And I'll have something to lend my pickup owning friend when I borrow his truck to take my bulkhead, breakfast, t-pieces, and trim to the galvanizers in Denver. bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 01 19:36:09 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: To be a Land Rover or not to be a Land Rover - that is the question >Another technique is the Terri-Anne technique - confuse the Landy for quite a >while so that it forgets who/what it really is, and then you can do almost >anything with it Right you are. I took a clapped out series II with a lot of missing parts, I started by adding some IIA front and rear light assemblies to replace the broken Series II ones that I could not locate at the time. I followed it up by replacing the totally worn out steering box with a late IIA good condition used one. Unfortunately it meant a plastic spoked steering wheel and the horn button on the arm was replaced by the one that came in the later steering wheel's centre. I got a steering column mounted turn signal switch with the column so the nonworking lever on a small instrument panel went away too. Then 13 years later, I opted to dump my engine in favour of a series III power plant with 8:1 compression. Then 5 years later I got really crazy and installed a Series III dual power brake system and a 109 station wagon fuel tank along with a second 109 front fuel tank to replace the old leaking factory aux tank. The filler assembly came from a Land Rover Defender high Capacity pickup. Later that very year I found myself camping in the Pacific North West for two weeks of almost continuous rain. I experienced the joys of trying to run a Coleman white gas stove and propane lantern inside the back of a 109. Of sitting there with my hair rubbing against the ceiling and getting caught in the roof vent mechanisms. Then trying to move things around so I could get room to lay out my sleeping bag. It was during that trip that I started thinking about converting my Land Rover's rear bed into a camper. After much research I decided to base the camper conversion on a Land Rover Dormobile. Two years later after breaking my sixth rear axle, I opted for a Land Rover series III 109 rear axle and prop shaft. That Fall, while on a 3 month long camping trip I was run off the road in Wyoming by an 18 wheeler. He was coming up from behind at the posted speed limit. I of course was driving along as fast as I could with the pedal to the metal. Rather than slow to to about half his speed he opted to pass. He just didn't notice that there was a bend in the road and another 18 wheeler coming in the other direction. He decided to move back into my lane instead of being part of an 18 wheeler to 18 wheeler head on at a combined rate of over 100 MPH. I decided that I would prefer to go off roading rather then to come into contact with those huge tyres. Once I got the Land Rover stopped and ran a visual inspection for suspension damage I found myself thinking about all the other close calls from impatient people passing on blind curves/hills and those times when I was on the freeway at night or in storms with big rigs coming at my tail at close to twice my speed. That was when I really started seriously considering that additional horse power would make my Land Rover a lot safer to drive. I first thought about using one of those Buick V8s that Rover has been using. But listening to people on the e-mail lists, those things seem pretty fragile, don't get very good fuel mileage. American versions have tons of fragile electronics and just a water pump is about $300. So I decided to look for something a whole lot more reliable with better fuel mileage and way cheaper parts. So almost two years ago I further confused my car by swapping out the non stock engine for another non stock engine and gearbox. To confuse my poor car even more I added Defender V8 labels and a Discover Series II badge to my rear tailgate. So yes my poor car is very confused, but she is a whole lot safer to drive in American traffic, new water pumps can be had for under $30 and I no longer catch my hair on the ceiling in the back. The only downside is that I have discovered that steering my 109 was an important component of my exercise program. I have lost arm strength with the Scout II power steering. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:38:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, William J. Rice wrote: :Hey fellows, :I now own two cars older than me. Sorry my latest acquisition isn't a :rover. I'm about to start a frameover on Mrs. Merdle (65 IIA) and was :planning on buying a bicycle or using LPCs (Leather Personnel Carriers) :to get wherever I went, but then a cool Mercedes I walk by every day on :my way to class turned up with a "For Sale" sign in it one a.m. It's a :'67 250SE. Test drove and compression tested it tonight. Not mint, but :probably cooler for all the quirks. The guy kept telling me what didn't :work and I kept saying "I haven't had that for 5 years now." There nifty looking. Sedan, Coupe, Convertible? Hope you don't want to fix the things that don't work. Mercedes parts are expensive. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:43:43 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) There nifty looking. Sedan, Coupe, Convertible? Hope you don't want to fix the things that don't work. Mercedes parts are expensive. David It's a sedan. For some reason I thought it was a '71 and I called the owner asking him if it was indeed a 250SE, b/c I just found out they didn't make any of those in 71. He told me it was a 67. Amazing that Mercedes was using fuel injection in 67 and my 1980 Pontiac motor is carbureted. I don't think I'm going to bother fixing much, though I just did some internet snooping and discovered that used parts really aren't bad. I may replace the windshield and convert the electric (not working) windows to manual if that's an economical course of action. I also will probably replace the bowling-trophy dude hood ornament w/ the proper Mercedes Star, though I could get some checker-pattern sticker rolls and make it a mod mobile and leave the bowler on . . . bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:07:25 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Wasted youth (was parts availability, etc.) Gbrovers@aol.com wrote: > Global warming is not a proven fact but it is an undisputable fact that > the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramaticly risen since the start > of the industrial revolution and the trend is accelerating. Um, fair point, however it doesn't mean or prove anything. Your sample is tiny (given the history of the Earth), and only spans the era when testing has been possible, so we have no way of knowing whether ozone depletion and warming isn't cyclical, or whether it isn't perhaps declining in the long term (one or two millennia). > The problem with waiting to see what the net result is going to be is > that by the time we know for sure, it may be too late to do much. Environmental eschatology is a growth industry. Since the dawn of human habitation on this planet it's been popular to postulate that we have reached an apocalyptic 'end time', we create myths and fables about our own demise. We even have Chicken Little coining the phrase "The sky's falling!" to fret over our fear of a fiery and sticky comeuppance. Thirty years ago it was nuclear holocaust, today it's CO2 and global warming, what next? Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:15:20 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Rest assured that Ford will not produce a car with A GM power plant. Um, OK, fair point (most South Africans are still blissfully aware of most US car manufacturers and models), I meant Lincoln. > As to where they will all be built? Who knows, especially after the complete Defender line is reintroduced in the US. Apparently L-R does, and the word is that it's all gonna happen in Ford's facility outside Pretoria. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:35:20 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing Paul Oxley wrote: > "...blissfully aware..." Sorry, make that "blissfully UNaware..." :-{)} Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:04:46 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: LRs in WWII movies > How did the Israelis modify the Sherman?? They supposedly modified them so > they were quite a good tank. They used them at least into the 70's, I think > because of these mod's. Heavier suspension and a bigger gun mainly. Have some pictures somewhere Pete ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:03:14 +0100 From: Ian Stuart Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Engine Balancing On Thursday 05 April 2001 9:20 pm, you wrote: > Balancing only means that the pistons, con rods and crankshaft will > be checked to see if they are within 1-2 grams of one another. The > crank gets spun and checked for harmonic imbalance. > All this is to help when she spins up to high rpms. At lower, like > 3K and below, the forces aren't all that great to necessitate the > effort. This is true, However (you knew this was coming, didn't you :), when you want to accelerate, a balanced engine will pick up quicker, and settle down quicker. It will also tick-over more smoothly (and quietly) - -- --==**==-- Ian Stuart - EdINA, DataLibrary, University computing services. - --------------------------------- Truth is what you believe it to be. I cannot force my facts on you, only make you believe my beliefs. - --------------------------------- http://lucas.ucs.ed.ac.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:04:21 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Re: Re: Youth I think that all those who were rejected from the Australian intake were absorbed by the USA... as they say "the melting pot of humanity" Written on behalf of the South Pacific members I don't know where the information came from either!! Macka NZ - -----Original Message----- From: Easton Trevor A To: 'lro@works.team.net' Date: Friday, 6 April 2001 01:28 Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Re: Youth > > >> I am saddened to see you met moronic people in my neck of the woods >> Marin..... >> >> Andrew MacGowan (25) >> Auckland >> New Zealand >> > It was once read that NZ was deporting all those with an IQ lower >than 50 to Oz. The effect would be to raise the average IQ of both >countries. > > (Duck, hide, enter witness protection program) > This note written on behalf of Marin > I don't know where the information came from :-{) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:08:35 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Wasted youth (was parts availability, etc.) China V USA WW3?????? ;-) Macka NZ - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Oxley To: lro@works.team.net Date: Friday, 6 April 2001 18:16 Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Wasted youth (was parts availability, etc.) >Gbrovers@aol.com wrote: > >> Global warming is not a proven fact but it is an undisputable fact that >> the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramaticly risen since the start >> of the industrial revolution and the trend is accelerating. > >Um, fair point, however it doesn't mean or prove anything. Your sample >is tiny (given the history of the Earth), and only spans the era when >testing has been possible, so we have no way of knowing whether ozone >depletion and warming isn't cyclical, or whether it isn't perhaps >declining in the long term (one or two millennia). > >> The problem with waiting to see what the net result is going to be is >> that by the time we know for sure, it may be too late to do much. > >Environmental eschatology is a growth industry. Since the dawn of human >habitation on this planet it's been popular to postulate that we have >reached an apocalyptic 'end time', we create myths and fables about our >own demise. We even have Chicken Little coining the phrase "The sky's >falling!" to fret over our fear of a fiery and sticky comeuppance. > >Thirty years ago it was nuclear holocaust, today it's CO2 and global >warming, what next? > >Regards > >Paul Oxley >AfricanAdrenalin.com > ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #316 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 6 18:03:18 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f36M3IN27531 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:03:18 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f36Kwu007992 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f36Kwt807988 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18390 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f36KKxT04722 for lro-digest-gone; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:20:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:20:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200104062020.f36KKxT04722@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #317 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 317 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:39:47 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Wasted youth (was parts availability, etc.) Macka wrote: > > China V USA WW3?????? I'm happy to observe that I'm about as far removed from THAT arena as possible. "Sunblock! Get your sunblock here! Avoid a nasty nuclear sunburn." Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:55:06 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: Ghost Driver? Old bloke from Yorkshire tells his son he's going to take his car and caravan to France for a holiday. 'You don't want to do that, they all drive on the wrong side of the road,' said his son. Coupla days later old bloke calls his son: 'The holiday is off. I hitched up the caravan and tried driving down the wrong way on the M1 motorway yesterday, son, and you're right, it's bloody dangerous.' he was a 'ghost driver'... Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Grant To: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:43 PM Subject: LRO: Ghost Driver? > At 17:14 05/04/01 +0200, Luca Ingianni, wrote > > "drivers beware there is a ghost driver on highway so-and-so" > > This sounds intriguing --- what is a "ghost driver" > > > > > > Rick Grant > > 1959 Series II "88" > VORIZO > > > > Rick Grant Communications > Media and Crisis Management > Calgary Ottawa > www.rickgrant.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:18:41 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: The Quest for Verisimilitude nothing particularly startling. It's just that most houses she went to offered her a nip of this light brown liquid it being Christmas. By the time she got to ours - and I had the Jameson's out - she was a bit worried about driving under the influence... and so were we, on her behalf... so Marj got the coffee on and me and a couple of neighbours, who were in my house 'testing' the Jameson at 10.30am (she normally delivers around 8am!).. went round our group of houses, there are only twelve of them, with the rest of the mail. Of course, at most of the houses we had to go in for a dram... and so it goes... She normaly finishes her 'round at noonish. We let her go (well Marj, being the only sober person in the district, let her go) at about 2.30pm. Note for Ray Burton: having a house full, Marj rustled up some real Lancashire 'tatty pie' with red cabbage or beetroot whichever is your fancy. L/R content: Rosie (the postwoman) was driving a newish Tdi Ninety at the time. In our drunken state, as it was the time I was looking for a replacement for my V8 in PKV, a couple of us got the notion we could keep her there for another day while we swapped engines. The two of us were outvoted by one - Marjorie, my better half. Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: The Quest for Verisimilitude > > A couple of Christmases ago me and some neighbours finished the mail run > one > day while my wife sobered our postwoman up! > > Best Cheers > > Frank > > Oh, please do elaborate on this Frank - sounds like a great story. > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 04:03:30 -0700 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing I wonder if the Discos will still be produced with GM door latches like they are now. Paul Oxley wrote: > > TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > > > Rest assured that Ford will not produce a car with A GM power plant. > > Um, OK, fair point (most South Africans are still blissfully aware of > most US car manufacturers and models), I meant Lincoln. > > > As to where they will all be built? Who knows, especially after the complete Defender line is reintroduced in the US. > > Apparently L-R does, and the word is that it's all gonna happen in > Ford's facility outside Pretoria. > > Regards > > Paul Oxley > AfricanAdrenalin.com - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:14:06 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing Jim Hall wrote: > > I wonder if the Discos will still be produced with GM door latches like > they are now. I think Disco production will remain where it is. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:32:29 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Coil and Flasher Neat (RPM curve dwell management electronically). WOnder what that would do interfaced to a typical mechanical system like a Rover though? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:34:23 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) Bravo, Bill! Sounds like a sweetheart. Not a damn thing wrong with a Mercedes as a daily driver - though Mrs. Merdle still has more character. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:38:48 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: The Quest for Verisimilitude Y'know, Frank, the vision of you lot staggering about the countryside in a GPO 90 singing Christmas carols and delivering mail is going to make me giggle for the next week or so... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:43:25 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing I wonder if the Discos will still be produced with GM door latches like they are now. Discos, Hell - classic RR used 'em too. Wish I could find out wehat make/model they were from... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:54:28 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: re: power Simon no doubt you are right but sometime a topic comes up that can't be ignored and the dangers of nuclear power is one of those because I want to be able to drive and repair my Land Rover for anther 50 years. John and Muddy SJH wrote: > > So nukes, Love Canal and personal injury lawyers have what to do with > Land Rovers? And no, I am not a PI lawyer, I actually spend my time > defending personal injury claims brought by Ambulance chasers... (But if > I or a family member werereally injured (as opposed to most of the soft > tissue injury crap I see), I'd want to be able to bring a claim for > it...) > > And yeah, I do know how to use my delete button, but the non LR stuff is > getting a tad thick lately dontchy'all think? > > Simon > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are > intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please > kill yourself and permanently delete the original and any copy of this > message. > > Simon J. Harding > Attorney at Law > Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. > 503.223.4131 > sharding@schulte-law.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:44:17 -0400 From: "Paul Gussack" Subject: LRO: RE: Don't read this if all you are interested in is Land Rovers. Marin Alright Marin, We do have common ground. "The thing that gets results in government is greed. Same as outside the government. Greed is a short-term catalyst. "I want it now." Which brings me back to my original point, which is that more and more decisions are being made with less and less thought to the long-term consequences. Age has nothing to do with this, by the way." Don't tell me you support election finance reform. Please don't misinterpret my statement about complaining to the list. Discussing issues that are oblique to the list is important. We (those on the list) have other issues and interests (reluctantly, I assure you) besides LR's. I suppose though I may not completely agree with your statements, knee jerking can go both ways. I do not in any way, shape, or form support violent and destructive methods of gaining attention to issues. I think the Eco-terrorists are as bad as those who blindly continue practices that are destructive. The WTO riots in Seattle sicken me. What should have been a thought provoking look at issues was sodden by actions brought on by low life's interested in vandalism and barbaric behavior. There is another thing that makes me sick and that's posturing by people in places of authority who don't give a tic turd for those who work with them or the community they are in. We are an ignorant people and only take action when we see our children dieing or our profit margins shrinking from decreased sales from customers dropping dead. I do work with several gov't and large corporations (contract basis) and see what wholesale "reorganization" can do to people. I've witnessed two major shakeups that have cause hundreds of people to lose their jobs. Bottom line, those at the top who pretend to take responsibility for their actions are still employed with safe financial futures and many people with years invested are stuck, scrambling for some safe work. It's not an issue of outsiders causing people to lose their jobs but poor management with a lack of vision and education (MBA's are not the only qualification for leadership). What I hope is that you do not limit yourself to this forum in making your opinions known. You are eloquent and intelligent (though I'm sure CARNIVORE regularly monitors this list for subversive behavior) you need to make your opinions known to those in authority. We put them there, make them work for it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:45:03 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) Hey, congrats Bill. I recommend you leave the windows open all the time. That way you won't get used to a quiet, weather tight ride ;-) Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:52:28 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Wasted youth (was parts availability, etc.) >Um, fair point, however it doesn't mean or prove anything. Your sample >is tiny (given the history of the Earth), and only spans the era when >testing has been possible, so we have no way of knowing whether ozone >depletion and warming isn't cyclical, or whether it isn't perhaps >declining in the long term (one or two millennia). That's an awfully optimistic stance with rather extreme consequences if you're wrong. The fact is, the atmoshere IS going sour, sea levels ARE rising, water and energy ARE running low, and more and more people seem to be suffering from respiratory and chemical sensetivity problems. The cause doesn't really matter as the outcome will be the same for us. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:54:10 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing >Paul Oxley wrote: > > "...blissfully aware..." > >Sorry, make that "blissfully UNaware..." :-{)} I hope so. We're all aware of them over here but we're not living in bliss ;-) Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:19:09 -0600 From: "Kirk Hillman" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: RE: Engine Balancing Peter, What is the URL for ACR? I have looked everywhere from magazine ads to internet searches, nothing is helping. What can you tell me? Kirk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:23:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: Re: Power Hey Marin: Dude, lighten up. Take a day off. Relax and envision a clear blue ocean, or some other calm, serene scene. You'll live longer! I did not posit any "rules" (nor did I bore everyone with my (extended) views on any given subject). Rather, I (I think gently) reminded everyone things were getting a little OT. A high volume of non LR mail is an irritant when one has subscribed to an LR list. An irritant mind you, not a major problem, just a minor irritant. I'm not sure what "rules" you think I've in mind (I certainly didn't write any) other than what is obvious in the address for this list :LRO. As to using the digest thanks for your suggestions (as well as your assumption that my software is inferior to yours), but please keep in mind that not everyone is like you (!), and that some of us prefer to participate real time, not in digest mode. Toodly doodly neighbor, and have a nice day! Simon in Portland (We Drink Less Coffee Here) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please kill yourself and permanently delete the original and any copy of this message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:53:54 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= Subject: RE: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) Now that we are talking Mercedes, the other day I was driving in front of the Mercedes Tower Building and they had right on the corner a 1956 300 SL Gullwing. Silver with red leather interior in like-new condition. I have no doubt that is probably one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Then I passed in front of the LR dealer, and they were showing of their jewel: a (claimed) 1950, topless SI, wearing costarican license plate #2. I'm sure it was better than new. That was enough to call it a day. Luis M - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) > > Bravo, Bill! Sounds like a sweetheart. > > Not a damn thing wrong with a Mercedes as a daily driver - though Mrs. > Merdle still has more character. > > ajr > > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 09/03/01 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:20:58 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: Re: LRO: Hey, I just bought a new car! (no rover content) All Mercedes parts can be bought used for as cheap as any ford at Star Motors website. Put Star Motors into a search engine, you'll find it. Brake disc for a 450 SL is $23 for example. Mercedes parts are not expensive and the aftermarket dissassembly of them is a huge buisness. DO NOT GO TO THE DEALER! Kind regards, Mark 1972 450 SL David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, William J. Rice wrote: > > :Hey fellows, > :I now own two cars older than me. Sorry my latest acquisition isn't a > :rover. I'm about to start a frameover on Mrs. Merdle (65 IIA) and was > :planning on buying a bicycle or using LPCs (Leather Personnel Carriers) > :to get wherever I went, but then a cool Mercedes I walk by every day on > :my way to class turned up with a "For Sale" sign in it one a.m. It's a > :'67 250SE. Test drove and compression tested it tonight. Not mint, but > :probably cooler for all the quirks. The guy kept telling me what didn't > :work and I kept saying "I haven't had that for 5 years now." > > There nifty looking. Sedan, Coupe, Convertible? Hope you don't want to fix > the things that don't work. Mercedes parts are expensive. > > David > -- > dscheidt@tumbolia.com > Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 01 08:20:18 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Real Rovers > It will be interesting to see what happens when > I turn up to a show with mud all over my 67 >SWB and a Chevy V8 that has been reluctantly shoehorned > under the hood. Rumbling like an AC Cobra because >it only has two cherry bombs and no muffler!!!!! Funny you should ask. I regularly attend British car meets. When I bring my lovingly restored 1961 Triumph TR3A it gets glanced at about the same as all the other nice looking TR3s in the line. When I bring the Green Rover, pop the top, open thebed and set the interior to cooking mode (Cook top cover up, broiler exposed, cross isle table up) I get constant crowds of non Land Rover people oooing and aaahing. I've trailed with most the Land Rover folks so they know my interior well. What has been happening since my engine, gearbox steering box swap is that I have been having a lot of Land Rover people asking me to pop the bonnet so they can have a look at the new engine, spending time streched out under my Land Rover and asking a lot of questions about how certain things were done. A large proportion of the Local Land Rover owners seem to be very keen about leaning the mechanicals of my recent swap. Oh, and while my carefuly restored TR3 is one of the crowd, my custom modified Land Rover is now a very frequent people's choice winner. Go figure TeriAnn http://www.overlander.net The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:41:00 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:54:29 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: LRO: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard (Long and Bitter) >After all, once I'm done, I'll be able to say that even with a simple body left, I'll still have more rover in my ford than you have in that restored beauty of yours. Let's see....You have a vehicle that has a Land Rover body but a different engine, drivetrain, frame, etc., etc., etc. The other guy has a restored stock Land Rover in perfect condition. But you claim your vehicle is more a Land Rover than his. I'd love to know what you've been smoking (or injecting) to come up with that logic, as it sounds like something that could get me through my workday a hell of a lot easier. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:42:56 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Darkness Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:13:59 -0400 From: "James G.Wolf" Subject: LRO: Darkness >No, don't worry. It's too dark in California for anyone to find their >way out, so I wouldn't expect to see anyone from that state up >here in the foreseeable future (thank God...) >Hey Marin, as they said in "The Never Endin Story" the darkness is on the move in the land!! Better buy lots of batteries. I have a boat with a big-ass generator and 1,000 gallons of diesel on board. I'm set. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:42:16 -0600 From: "Coates, Clinton" Subject: LRO: Mercedes Welcome to the wonderful world of mercedes! The mid-late 60s cars are pretty nice, though I would want to check around for rust a little bit. Email me backchannel and I can set you up with a few good parts sources (are you in the US or Canada?). Parts are not generally expensive, except for the odd surprise. And (lr content here), Mercedes seems to be the only other company I am aware of other than land rover that does not abandon its classic owners. You will find that if you need, to, you can walk into a dealership with your VIN and get them to order you a brand new key to fit the lock. Try that with a 1966 Chevy... Find a good MB, non dealer mechanic you trust and you will be well on your way. Clinton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:55:30 +0100 From: "Phil Norris" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing I don't know about GM but aren't they Morris Marina door handles? Early discos also used the front lights from a Freightrover van and the rear lights from a Maestro van. All Rover parts bin stuff to keep development costs down, as the story goes.... PhilN - -----Original Message----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: lro@Works.Team.Net Date: 06 April 2001 12:50 Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing > >I wonder if the Discos will still be produced with GM door latches like >they are now. > >Discos, Hell - classic RR used 'em too. > >Wish I could find out wehat make/model they were from... > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:01:22 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: LRO: Vehicle identification needed Hi All-- I bought a new slide scanner recently, and I've been busy scanning in my thirty-one-year-old slides from Vietnam. I ran across one with a vehicle in it; please take a look at: http://www.pauahtun.org/arvn.html It's the picture one from the bottom. Any thoughts? Metta, Ivan PS: I have lots of slides with vehicles in them, some quite odd. One is a picture of a turquiose Edsel. ... Eventually, I'll get them all scanned in. - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:11:30 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing >I don't know about GM but aren't they Morris Marina door handles? Then the Marina was buying door handles from GM as the ones on my 84 were definitely stamped with a GM logo. When I pulled them to derust/destick them I was highly amused... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:35:34 EDT From: Lemurstew@aol.com Subject: LRO: Conversions I think its pretty funny that there are those folks on the list who say conversions have no place in Land Rover History. Classic head in ass syndrome. It doesn't take long to come up with a long list of conversions that are notable points in rover history: - -The factory approved Australian Perentie with an Izuzu Diesel? - -The fact that that same Izuzu engine has been offered as an option in Australia by dealerships since 1981. - -The salsbury axle which is obviously a dana item. - -The 127 inch bonneted control 1 ton pickup with a Perkins diesel fitted by the factory? -Some rover dealerships in US in the late 60s offered to fit 327 chevy V8s to series trucks for $1500 additional dollars. - -Santana (don't get me started here) - -Nevermind the Buick engine they have been sticking in their trucks since the 70s. - -Just look look at the first land rover . . .it was a conversion -> on a Jeep . . . Need I say more? - -Regards - -Ike Goss (1959 SII 88) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:43:10 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed Cool - what looks like an old SWB Rover. Definitely not one of the Aussie Army jobs - must have been civilian. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:01:56 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed Not only is it a Landy, but did you notice the right seater checking out the bird with the legs? Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Cool - what looks like an old SWB Rover. > > Definitely not one of the Aussie Army jobs - must have been civilian. > > ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 11:26:01 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed Hi All-- Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > Cool - what looks like an old SWB Rover. > > Definitely not one of the Aussie Army jobs - must have been civilian. > OK. The picture was taken mid-1970. Thus, the latest date for the vehicle would have been 1969, which would be SIIa. What's the earliest date? Since it looks about like it's been painted with house paint, I'd hesitate to date it that late. But of course, I've got no experience identifying LRs. Sigh. , Ivan - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:59:14 -0700 From: Wise Owl Subject: LRO: Re: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #313 > >Seriously, get some ally-backed insulation and use that - Dynamat's too >damn expensive! > > ajr There is a cheap, perfect copy of Dynamat sold through Mcmaster-Carr. It appears to be exactly the same, but without the Dynamat logo. Sells for $12 a sheet. They call it "High temp accoustic mastic"or something. It is on there web page under acoustics or sound, etc. 73, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 15:09:12 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed The square shape of the rear step says it is a series 2 so 58 to 62. John and Muddy Ivan Van Laningham wrote: > > Hi All-- > > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > > Cool - what looks like an old SWB Rover. > > > > Definitely not one of the Aussie Army jobs - must have been civilian. > > > > OK. The picture was taken mid-1970. Thus, the latest date for the > vehicle would have been 1969, which would be SIIa. What's the earliest > date? Since it looks about like it's been painted with house paint, I'd > hesitate to date it that late. But of course, I've got no experience > identifying LRs. Sigh. > > , > Ivan > ---------------------------------------------- > Ivan Van Laningham > Symantec > http://www.pauahtun.org > http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html > Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 > Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:48:41 EDT From: RoverPilot@aol.com Subject: LRO: URL for ACR - --part1_c3.f6ad8d8.27ff6989_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.automotivecomp.com - --part1_c3.f6ad8d8.27ff6989_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.automotivecomp.com - --part1_c3.f6ad8d8.27ff6989_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:52:24 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed Re: Step: Don;t want to argue with you John (I've never even SEEN a Series II step), but the taillights on that beast don't look like Sparto lights or even earlier Lucas ones. The step may be S.II, but opinion on the IIa taillight lenses? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:01:32 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Conversions You left out the BMW 6 cylinder petrol engined Defenders of South African manufacture plus a whole host of different diesels fitted to RR's by the factory. >From: Lemurstew@aol.com >I think its pretty funny that there are those folks on the list who say >conversions have no place in Land Rover History. Classic head in ass >syndrome. It doesn't take long to come up with a long list of conversions >that are notable points in rover history: >-The factory approved Australian Perentie with an Izuzu Diesel? >-The fact that that same Izuzu engine has been offered as an option in >Australia by dealerships since 1981. >-The salsbury axle which is obviously a dana item. >-The 127 inch bonneted control 1 ton pickup with a Perkins diesel fitted by >the factory? -Some rover dealerships in US in the late 60s offered to fit >327 chevy V8s to series trucks for $1500 additional dollars. >-Santana (don't get me started here) >-Nevermind the Buick engine they have been sticking in their trucks since >the >70s. >-Just look look at the first land rover . . .it was a conversion -> on a >Jeep >. . . >Need I say more? >-Regards >-Ike Goss (1959 SII 88) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:06:14 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Re: RE: RE: Engine Balancing http://www.automotivecomp.com/ Thought it was strange also that they don't have the url in their ads in LROI. Peter O had the link originally. I passed it along to teriAnne so it's in Overlander.net now Pete > Peter, > What is the URL for ACR? I have looked everywhere from magazine ads to > internet searches, nothing is helping. What can you tell me? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:17:18 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Conversions >iesels fitted to RR's by the factory. You mean like the York and VM? Italian Diesel in a British car with a German automatic transmission... This is a truly frightening concept. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:36:46 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: re: power There are dangers to nuclear generation of electrical power. With the exception of Russia, however, the record for the nuclear power industry is unmatched by any other industry in the world. Not one death. Granted that a catastrophic failure would have wide ranging and long term effects, but it hasn't happened. That is with old technology and much of it trial by error manufacture. Your fear of nuclear power is irrational given the facts. The problems with contamination and the bulk of the storage problems, with nuclear waste, were caused by development of the bomb. A great deal of this occured before we were aware of the long term problems and the types of materials used in processing bomb grade nuclear material. Breathing is dangerous, why don't we all stop doing that. I heard a snippet on the news a few weeks ago about a low tech way to produce power from a nuclear reaction. Think I heard that it doesn't produce the super long life radioactive byproducts and cannot self destruct like our current technology. Unfortunately, the regulators are so paranoid becuasue it is 'nuclear' that they won't let larger scale development procede without all the safeguards of our current dangerous technology. Because of the regulators, its too expensive to even think about and research money is not available. Any one know what this technology is??? In the 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' vein, hear that those that haven't died of the immediate and radiation caused secondary effects of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are living longer and healthier lives than their non exposed counter parts. Looks like a little radiation may be a good thing. Anybody want to volunteer to find out what 'little' is?? For all the bunny lovers, hear that wildlife is flourishing in the areas closed by the Chernobyl disaster. That should make the 'natural' crowd support nuclear disasters. Are you Canadian's really happy with the coal fired electrical generation byproducts drifting up into your neck of the woods??? I'm amazed that so many people love the real and present danger of acid rain while denying construction of clean and safe power generation systems. Talking about engine swaps, wouldn't a little nuclear reactor that you only had to fill up once, and drive forever, be a dandy source of power for the old series. Eliminate the problem of high fuel consumption and pollution of the Petrol engines. Aloha Peter Ogilvie Kona Coffee Rover 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering from exposure of the dark side. 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally up and running 12/00. 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust >From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) >Simon no doubt you are right but sometime a topic comes up that can't be >ignored and the dangers of nuclear power is one of those because I want to >be able to drive and repair my Land Rover for anther 50 years. >John and Muddy > >SJH wrote: > > > > So nukes, Love Canal and personal injury lawyers have what to do with > > Land Rovers? And no, I am not a PI lawyer, I actually spend my time > > defending personal injury claims brought by Ambulance chasers... (But if > > I or a family member werereally injured (as opposed to most of the soft > > tissue injury crap I see), I'd want to be able to bring a claim for > > it...) > > > > And yeah, I do know how to use my delete button, but the non LR stuff is > > getting a tad thick lately dontchy'all think? > > > > Simon > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are > > intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or > > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please > > kill yourself and permanently delete the original and any copy of this > > message. > > > > Simon J. Harding > > Attorney at Law > > Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. > > 503.223.4131 > > sharding@schulte-law.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:05:12 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: LRO: Re: Frank Elson, The Quest for Tunesmiths Frank Elson Since most of the music I like is as old as my rovers, have a question for you. I was going through my old vinyl records of the Stones and kept coming across Nanker Phelg as the writer of many of their early songs. Was there a guy named Nanker Phelg (did his parents hate him) or are these the last names of two people?? They wrote many of the Stones best songs but I've never heard anything about them, either then or now. Can you enlighten me??? Aloha Peter > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:11:53 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: LRO: Clutch and Brakes Sorry to be a bore, but does anyone have a schematic of the way to assemble a clutch master cylinder and a brake master cylinder for a single circuit non-servo 1967 SWB Landrover. It has a single round reservoir with two chambers in it for the fluid. Amazingly, I took the "brake" master out of the clutch master position and am now trying to put it back the way it should be. Thanks, Mark Pilkington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:15:12 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed The Series II step is rectangular. I have one on my 109sw and I have seen similar ones in Land Rover factory literature. This does look to be similar is size and shape but looks like it is barely hanging on, it's position does look kinda funny. Rich Williams Series II 109 SW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:52 AM Subject: Re: LRO: Vehicle identification needed > > Re: Step: > > Don;t want to argue with you John (I've never even SEEN a Series II step), > but the taillights on that beast don't look like Sparto lights or even > earlier Lucas ones. The step may be S.II, but opinion on the IIa taillight > lenses? > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:19:57 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: re: power Peter Ogilvie wrote: > I heard a snippet on the news a few weeks ago about a low tech way to > produce power from a nuclear reaction. Think I heard that it doesn't > produce the super long life radioactive byproducts and cannot self destruct > like our current technology. Unfortunately, the regulators are so paranoid > becuasue it is 'nuclear' that they won't let larger scale development > procede without all the safeguards of our current dangerous technology. > Because of the regulators, its too expensive to even think about and > research money is not available. Any one know what this technology is??? Possibly pebble bed modular reactors. You can actually hold the pellets of fuel in your hands (baseball sized). Read a paper on it at http://www.uilondon.org/sym/1999/kemm.htm Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #317 **********************************************