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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 07:29:15 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Expansion tank

Nice to see the digest back after a looong absence (>1 week). Enough of
that.

Expansion tanks on radiators:

My views on this are different from many people's, including a majority
of car manufacturers. THEY ARE ALL WRONG!!!

You should fit a pressure cap on the expansion tank - 15 psi springs to
mind. You should fit a blank cap (ie no pressure release springy bit) to
the rad.

You should also ensure that the feed pipe betwixt rad and tank goes to
near the bottom of the expansion tank.

The normal solution, which I have seen on many production cars (and
motorbikes) is to fit a pressure cap to both. This is next to useless.

When the water expands in the cooling system, or even starts to boil and
tried to overflow it lifts the spring in the cap and pushes the water
past into the overflow bottle, or more often just through an overflow
pipe onto the ground. The the engine cools. The water is now at below
atmospheric pressure and "sucking" like mad on the pressure cap on top
of the rad, which has by this stage clamped securely onto the top of the
rad and will not let anything past.

So your hot engine has pumped a bit of water into the overflow and there
is no way it will come back. You check the water level and find that the
overflow bottle is full & leave it alone. Meanwhile your rad is half
empty :-(

With a blank cap on the rad water can travel both ways between the
bottle & rad, only overflowing if the pressure in the whole system is

A good solution for LRs is to fit a IIa rad which has an extra large
tank on top of the rad. The III is half the size, and does not allow as
much expansion.

At the risk of getting thrown off the list for mentioning inferior cars,
Rover Metros have a very good system (which may be on many others for
all I know), which has an expansion tank which is actually part of the
flow path of the cooling system. A small percentage of the water flows
through the expansion tank all the time, so all the water is at pretty
much the same temperature and if someone tops up with neat anti-freeze
or water it does get mixed with the rest after a few miles.

I have seen on countless vehicles with full overflow bottles and empty
rads caused by pressure caps on rads.

As far as level goes, the water should be above the feed pipe and below
the top!  I would aim about half way between and keep an eye on things
for a while, especially after a long stint of hard work, or idling on
a hot day.

May your rad not runneth over.

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x5209     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 23 Apr 96  8:35:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Expansion tank

Re: Pressure caps on expansion tanks and/or radiators:

Gotta argue with you on this one, Steve. Most of the systems I've run across 
(like the refit on my 109, my wife's Mazda and others) has a pressure cap on 
the radiator, and a simple overflow setup on the bottle.

The one bit where I think you're a bit misled is on the radiator pressure cap. 
You're right - expansion does push the cap open and allow the coolant to run to 
the bottle.

HOWEVER, all of these caps also have a vacuum opening in the other direction 
that opens @ ~1PSI diff. pressure or so, to allow the coolant to be drawn back. 
The Stant 10-pounder I have on my 109 has one, and it keeps itself nice and 
topped up with little effort.

My old Volvo has the setup you describe with the release cap on the pressure 
bottle. This, too, works well.

The main reason that people have full catch bottles and empty radiators is 
that, when renewing hoses, they never think to replace the stub to the bottle. 
This then perishes with age, oil, ozone and so forth, cracking.

It will pass fluid to the bottle nicely, but allows air in on the pull-back. 
With the hose sucking air, your coolant never comes back up (ever try to drink 
with a cracked straw?).

   My tuppence worth, ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:34:43 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Guide for a Frame Over

Mike Loiodice wrote:
>  (The only "Rover" bolts I bought were
> the two that bolt the bulkhead to the chassis outriggers - but then I didn't
> need to replace my frame either.)

> Mike Loiodice

Even these bolts are replaceable.  Local tractor supply shops will carry these large, 
long bolts in various degrees of hardness (up to grade 8) I opted for grade 5 in case I 
ever have to try to cut them again.  The only bolts/screws I couldn't find local 
replacement for were the screws that hold the wings to the bulkhead.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:59:21 -0400
Subject: Multimeters

I have the Radio Shack mini-digital, but my favorite meter for diagnosing
LR electrics is a Triplett 4044.  Nice LOUD continuity beeper, analog 
bargraph along the bottom, capture-min-value, capture-max-value, and the 
meter is IP-66 rated for spooge (drip) resistance, impact resistance,
and is double-insulated.

The triplett (in a rubber holster, with clip-leads and a set of 
probes) lives in my toolbag in the back of Sally.

	-Bill Y.

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:51:23 -0400
Subject: LR Pick and Shovel

The U.S. Cavalry (MoD surplus) pick and shovel set have a 
substantial but pressed-steel shovel blade (at least as thick
as my Sears Craftsman shovel blade), and the pick head is
pick on one side and mattock on the other.  The pick handle
is also reinforced with a steel wrapper on the upper end
where the mattock heat mounts (nice!). 

They're ugly, but they seem substantial enough.

	-Bill Y.

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:53:20 -0400
Subject: LR Pick and Shovel

The U.S. Cavalry (MoD surplus) pick and shovel set have a 
substantial but pressed-steel shovel blade (at least as thick
as my Sears Craftsman shovel blade), and the pick head is
pick on one side and mattock on the other.  The pick handle
is also reinforced with a steel wrapper on the upper end
where the mattock heat mounts (nice!). 

They're ugly, but they seem substantial enough.

	-Bill Y.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:48:42 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Re: Expansion tank

*** Resending note of 23/04/96 13:39

AJR Said:

|HOWEVER, all of these caps also have a vacuum opening in the other
|direction that opens @ ?1PSI diff. pressure or so, to allow the coolant
|to be drawn back. The Stant 10-pounder I have on my 109 has one, and it
|keeps itself nice and topped up with little effort.

Bum.  I didn't know that.  I shall have to investigate when I next
have a working engine.  Perhaps the car manufacturers of the world are
not mad after all.

Oops, Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 10:20:41 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: test again...don't read. I know you're going to though.

test- I told you not to read it...

                  ___  
                  |__\___
                  |__|__| 
                  (o) (o)   

------------------------------

From: "Christopher Thomas" <chris@compman.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:28:45 +0000
Subject: CB40 Prototype

Message from my brother who decides to telephone me at work, to tell 
you this -devasting- news.

It's a bit garbled, but that's his problem:

CB40 prototype spotted on the Hagley Road in Edgbaston. Heading 
towards town. Prototype was under a Maestro van body but three or 
four inches of lift were apparent over the normal Maestro van height. 
Skirts covered chopped bodywork necessary to fit van body onto ladder 
chassis Regno J110 XFS.

>From Steve Thomas
thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk

(from his Big Brother's account)

--
Christopher Thomas (Online Sales)      Computer Manuals Ltd.
E-mail:chris@compman.co.uk        Voice: +44 (0)121 706 6000
Free catalogue, advice, and PGP public key always available!
   >>>** Web Bookstore at http://www.compman.co.uk **<<<

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:21:57 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@mail.CandW.lc>
Subject: Re: Multimeters and sightings

Many thanks for all the information on multimeters - very helpful and greatly 
appreciated.

A couple of days ago I saw a (1995?) movie called Born Wild, filmed in South 
Africa and Zambia, with some great wildlife footage, and LRs as the only 
vehicles in the whole film.

Cheers
Allan
St. Lucia

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@CompuServe.COM
Date: 23 Apr 96 10:27:47 EDT
Subject: LR pick and shovel questions

>> I am thinking about getting a pick and 
shovel set from US Cav and was wondering about
a couple of things;

1) is the shovel made of pressed steel or
   is it a more stout, welded up model?

2) does the pick have two pick points or
   does it have a mattock blade?

enquiring archaeologists want to know <<

1) It is not welded up, put it appears to be fairly strong. I wouldn't worry
about breaking it, your back would wear out before the shovel would. The shovel
is 28" long which is short for hard work.

2) It has two pick points and the handle is 26" long, again a little to short

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 23-Apr-1996

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 09:44:34 -0500
Subject: LRNA screen savers

The mac version of the screen saver seems a little buggy. If I let it run   
over night, I'm almost guaranteed to have my machine hung in the morning   
(I like to leave my machine on all the time). Don't know about the   
windows version yet - haven't pulled it.
anyone else have problems?

Tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW  

------------------------------

From: David_R._Bobeck_at_USHMM@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 11:02:11 EST
Subject: Phone number needed...help please.

Anybody have the phone number for Eastwood's in the US? I need to order some 
more paint today but I left the catalog at home.

Thanks

Dave "I like painting frames" B.

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 09:57:18 -0500
Subject: Frame Replacement Log, 15

Log 15

The major seems to be kind of flakey, so I hope this goes to everyone.

I would have made more progress this week if I wouldn't have spent
three days on the master brake cylinder. What should have been a two
hour tear down was an exercise in frustration.

The bleeping end cap wouldn't come off. Finally, I found the right
combination of tools to get it off - a six point socket, a 20" breaker
bar, and another 30" of pipe, and a good vise. I must have had to get
200-300 ft. lbs. of torque going to break it free. Sheesh. Once inside
the cylinder, everything looked dandy, so I have no idea why it stuck
like that - no rust or anything...

Once that was done it took me another 30 minutes to get it back
together. I also cleaned up the tower, painted it and the peddle, and
added a new peddle pad.

I'm a little P.O.'d at Rovers North. I bought the resivoir kit in the
spring flyer (the nice plastic one), but one of the pipes (res. to
brake cyl.) is on back order from the UK. I guess I would have thought
they'd make sure of stock before putting things on special. So that
might hang me - can't finish the brakes (and thus the whole truck)
without that pipe. They have no ETA on when its supposed to come in. I
may see if I can have one made up or if someone else has one. Just
another little pain.

I picked up the bulkhead from the painter, and its RED! Woa. It
appears to be the correct color, but its very vibrant - the truck was
a nice color when it was new.

A friend and I got that mounted with no major problems - getting the
zinc out of the main bolt holes was a task. Its so soft that the drill
bit will sort of cut a thread in it and then bind. My first bit, after
it bound a couple times, exploded into about 20 fragments. I bought a
better bit and managed to break through.

I put the steering column back in, the bulkhead bracket, and the
assorted inside components that go along with.

I also moved the main wiring harness. While it didn't seem to
difficult, I was tedious about it. My harness has only minor
modifications, so all the colors were there and everything. When I
moved the dash, I drew diagrams and put tape flags on every wire
before disconnecting it, and didn't remove the tape until everything
was back in place.

I also put new connectors between the front and rear harnesses, and
between the rear harness and all the tail lights.

Obviously, I haven't been able to test everything yet, so that will be
the real proof. And the front lights aren't connected yet since the
breakfast and wings are still in the basement.

There are a number of differences between my old bulkhead and the new
one. The biggest is that my old one had a 'window' cut into it just
below the dash, and a box is welded to the inside. Attached to this
box is the PTO throttle and the choke. From the motor side, it looks
like a 1 inch recess into the bulkhead. I haven't yet decided how to
deal with this - I think I could put the choke lever anywhere I
wanted, but the PTO throttle might have to be left out. :-( (Not that
I use it, but its still kind of cool...)

I had to drill a hole for the starter button. I wonder if the new
bulkhead had a newer type of key switch. Also, it appears that there
was no heater, and maybe no oil pressure guage (or not the same type
of guage). There are no holes for the oil line or heater controls, and
the footwell plate on the passenger side is signifigantly different
from the original. Mounting the kodiak is going to be a trick. The new
bulkhead is from a '69.

This week its mount the bulkhead plate for the cylinder towers, mount
the cylinders and the last hard lines, and, if I get the pipe, bleed
the hydraulics. A friend also loaned me a vacuum bleed pump, and I'm
interested to see how well that works. I'm also going to try to get
the throttle linkage all hooked back up.

Tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

From: slade@sisna.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:03:39 -0700
Subject: FOR SALE: Defender Bulkhead

Hello,

I have recently aquired a Defender bulkhead as a partial settlement against
a company in the US that provides custom built Land Rovers.  The company
never delivered my vehicle, and I am attempting to recover my losses
through parts.  This company is no longer in business, so no one has to
worry about being taken by them in the future.

To cut to the chase...

FOR SALE:

Defender bulkhead, new, primer black.  Located in Maine, USA.

Price:  Negotiable.  Trades encouraged.  In particular, I am looking for a
6 cyl bulkhead for a 109, heated glass, or any other tidbits of value.

email or call: 503 760 4798

Thanks, and sorry for the cross post to those who are on both lists.

Michael Slade
IIa 109 SW 1970
slade@sisna.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:42:47 -0400
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: antique insurance

I got an agreed value policy on my Rover with nothing more than a copy of
the restoration agreement.  No appraisal, and I don't even recall sending a
photograph.  Of course,  I pay a premium associated with the vehicle's
value.

Antique insurance was tempting except for the fact that the Rover is my
only vehicle (though at the time all of my driving was "hobby related as I
took a train to work) and the mileage limitation.  I'm happy with the
agreed value policy, though fortunately I haven't had to put it to the test
yet.

RoverOn!

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:25:10 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: test again...don't read. I know you're going to though.

Hey Dave,
I didnt read it...what did it say?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:58:25 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Spring-over conversion

Art,

There have been a few spring-over conversions done to Land-Rovers but the
only ones I've seen are on 109s.  It should work on an 88 too but your
driveline angles are going to be pretty extreme.  If there are some Jeeps
and other SWB 4x4s in your area, you might want to talk to those owners
about what modifications they had to make.  In general, it may be necessary
to rotate your axle housing somewhat to make the pinion end of each diff
angle up slightly.  It may also be necessary to have a double-cardan
(constant velocity) joint, rather than a simple single cardan (universal)
joint, in each propeller shaft.

Also, I urge you to consider the effect that a spring-over conversion will
have on your center of gravity and therefore your sidehill ability.  An
excellent sidehill ability is one of the hallmarks of the Land-Rover and not
to be sacrificed lightly.  This capability can be important in rock
crawling.  And is certainly to be considered in a vehicle--especially a
short-wheelbase one--that is to be used as a daily driver on the road.  Not
much use to drive something that looks cool if it will end up upside-down in
a ditch with you pinned under it.  That won't look so cool, eh?

An alternative to doing a spring-over is to use good fresh stock springs (I
recommend against heavier-duty ones unless the vehicle weight is going to be
increase greatly and therefore require it--this because you lose axle
articulation with stiffer springs, something of paramount importance in rock
crawling) with Land-Rover One-Ton shackles.  These give you something like a
1-1/2" lift.  Then you can go to rather tall tires, such as 33x9.50R15 BFG
Mud-Terrains on the stock 15" Land-Rover wheels (6"x15"), 265/80R16 Interco
Super Swamper TSLs (awesome for rock-crawling as I can attest) on steel
Discovery wheels (7"x16").  Either of these should give no clearance
problems without bodywork modifications  (although the SSers might require
flares to be legal in some states).  If you want to go to bigger tires, such
as, say, SS TSLs in something like 36x12.50R15 or 36x12.50R16, of course
special wheels would be needed and fenderwell modifications would likely be
necessary.

The final suggestion that I'd like to make is that you consider a coiler
conversion.  If you are doing a frame-over anyway, especially if you are
planning to buy a new frame, and obviously aren't too concerned about being
perfectly "stock" then you could spend a little more and get a coil-sprung
chassis.  There are longer coils and shocks available to go as high as you
want, more or less.  Not only will you get the height you want but will gain
vastly in axle articulation, which is the biggest factor in successful rock
crawling.

Hope this helps some,

Granville Pool
Redwood Valley, CA

PS  Where do you live?  Where do you go rock crawling?  Let's go!  If you
are anywhere near North California, you can come to the Mendocino Forest
notaRallye this weekend...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 12:34:12 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel Trophy Results

In what was widely regarded as the toughest event ever, the 17th Camel 
Trophy ended Monday night (April 22) in Pontinak in the state of Kalimantan, 
Indonesia.  As few as three days ago, the convoy of 38 vehicles was still 
*1,000 km* from the finish.  Only by selecting an alternate route and 
drastically shortening the final set of special tasks was the event able to 
conclude - one day late.

Participants arrived at the finish late Sunday evening and began the last of 
four special tasks at dawn on Monday.  Two involved driving/navigating 
amongst the coastal coconut palms; another was a race in traditional Dyak 
log canoes to an off shore island.  The other task was to retrieve a gearbox 
dropped into the sea.  (I wonder what the resale price on *that* one will be?)

And the winners are: Greece.  In a very surprising move, the US team of Ken 
Cameron and Fred Hoess finished second; they were 18th after the first set 
of special tasks, and 14th after the pond-crossing event mid way through.  
They came on very strong in the last special tasks and were voted third in 
team spirit.  France finished third overall.  The Russian team was first in 
the special task scoring, while the affable pair from South Africa once 
again were voted the Team Spirit award.  In a new category, Greece took home 
the Land Rover Award for the team with the best standing in tasks involving 
driving.

For R.O.A.V. members wondering where "The Gearbox" is, it went to the press 
this AM and should be posted out Thursday evening or Friday morning.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:51:31 -0400
Subject: Re: LRNA screen savers

Tim;

       No problems with screen saver here...Using windows 3.1 ....
Rgds
Steve Bradke

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: Phone, Eastwood,help please.

Dave,
The # is  610-640-1579 or Toll Free 800-345-1178
 or FAX 610-644-0560

They are about 25 minutes down the road from me so I'm there every few weeks.
Welding stuff is on sale right now.  I just got their stitch welder which
hooks up to 
your arc welder.  Cuts the current in half and vibrates so it won't burn
through thin steel 
so easily.  Perfect for Series door frames.
Cheers, Randall

>Anybody have the phone number for Eastwood's in the US? I need to order some 
>more paint today but I left the catalog at home.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Thanks
>Dave "I like painting frames" B.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Spring-over conversion 
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:29:22 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Granville Pool wrote:

>>>begin text
  There have been a few spring-over conversions done to Land-Rovers but the
  only ones I've seen are on 109s.  It should work on an 88 too but your
  driveline angles are going to be pretty extreme.  In general, it may be 
  necessary to rotate your axle housing somewhat to make the pinion end of each 
  diff angle up slightly.  It may also be necessary to have a double-cardan
  (constant velocity) joint, rather than a simple single cardan (universal)
  joint, in each propeller shaft.
>>>end text

	Also note that in the front, if you do more than about 1" or 2" of
lift, the front propshaft will begin to rub the frame.  If you do the spring
above the axle conversion, you will have to cut/modify the tranny frame
crossmember to prevent damaging the prop shaft.

	(I bent my crossmember and on extreme axle articulation my propshaft
rubs the frame on a stock setup)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:48:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Phone number needed...help please.

Eastwood...... 1-800- 534-1178
                     1-800-544-5118

Rgds
Steve

------------------------------

From: Daniel Grambihler <danielg@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: D90 door tops, soft top, etc...
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:38:30 -0800 (PST)

> I have a D90 and would like to be able to take my top off and leave it off 
> for some period of time.  However, I find myself watching the weather 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> (I don't mind getting wet, I just don't want to have to spend alot of time 
> drying out my interior.)
Doug -

When my 90 gets exceptionally dusty inside, I park it in the
driveway (at an angle), open the tail, and hose out the inside
(this has been with the full soft top on). I cover the center
console with the provided cover, and afterward, I pull up the
rubber floor mats and dry under them (mostly to prevent mold/
mildew), and I empty out the ashtray. Everything else is either
sealed (gauges, switches, levers), water-resistant (poly-speakers,
seats, interior), or fitted with drainage holes (console cup
holders, side pockets, dash shelf). I have noticed no ill-effects,
although some of the exposed steel bolts (e.g. on the roll-cage)
show signs of surface rust.

I have the soft-top in the garage (as well as the safari-cage
and rear seat) and had the bimini top installed. Much better than
worrying about rain (as I had been for the first 2 months of
going "topless", as it were...)

Cheers - Daniel

-- 
Daniel Grambihler
danielg@eskimo.com
'95 D90 #3064  '47 CJ2A

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Cute editorial from the May Land Rover Owner magazine...

Transcript:

Almost no other vehicle manufacturer relies on its image as much as
Land Rover to move the metal.  Unfortunately Lode Lane has fallen foul
of the advertising watchdog the Advertising Standards Authority, for
claims that three out of four of the vehicles it has built are still
on the road.  (I think he meant three out of four *ever* built, UM).
It appears that Land Rover was being economical with the truth by
counting reconditioned, exported, and untaxed vehicles, and not just those
working.  In fact all those vehicles kept in circulation by Land Rover Owner
readers.

Apart from exposing this massaging of the figures, this judgement also
reveals how Land Rover uses the army of Solihull enthusiasts to maintain its
legendary image.  Put bluntly, Land Rover is selling Discoverys and Range 
Rovers thanks to the owners who restore and run older vehicles and the
suppliers who make that possible.

Ask the buyers of new Land Rovers the reasons they bought one and many will
reply that among them was the fact that Land Rover makes the world's
toughest vehicles.  Just look at the thousands that are still on the road,
they'll say.  Again, it is the enthusiasts that are behind this perception.
There's nothing wrong with Land Rover exploiting its past, but there's a big
danger in the way the company is developing.  It's moving away from being
primarily the builder of utility machines, towards creating expensive
vehicles that are never used off-road, and could lose touch with its
roots and destroy that vital image.  If fashions change, Land Rover could be
exposed as the off road king that has no clothes.  No ad agency would be able
to put that right.

Transcript ends...

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:36:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Frame Replacement Log, 15

On 23 Apr 96 at 9:57, Tim Harincar wrote:

> I picked up the bulkhead from the painter, and its RED! Woa. It
> appears to be the correct color, but its very vibrant - the truck was
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> it bound a couple times, exploded into about 20 fragments. I bought a
> better bit and managed to break through.

I find that you can avoid this grabbing in soft metal when using a twist 
drill by taking the edge off the cutting surfaces just slightly with a 
grinding wheel.  The bit scrapes its way through instead of trying to screw 
itself into the metal.  This works especially well on brass, and I have 
some bits modified like this for some specific jobs I do.
Tim, how many revolutions did you make before the bit exploded?

Cheers,
Ron

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:12:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: antique insurance

I deal with those pricks at State Farm myself.....URGH! I had to jump 
through hoops backwards just to get them to insure the Pig (67 swb).  
What I did was go to a "speciality" car dealer and have him appraise the 
Rover.  There is a "value guide" for collector cars kind of like a blue 
book.  The guy at the dealer just opened it up and xeroxed the page with 
the rover on it and signed his name at the bottom with the rover's value 
circled.  All this great service for the price of a beer. State Farm 
STILL tried to give me grief but I wore them down with my threats of 
being a total prick right back to them....call the main office, they just 
love to hear from angry policy holders.  

Russ W.
67 swb "The Pig"
"Coil springs are for pogosticks"

On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Jan Ben wrote:

> Dear all,

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Thanks
> Jan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:47:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Roberts <psu00712@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: Thank-you

  Dear LRO's, 
  	I would like to thank you for the help in deciding what Land 
  Rover to covet.  It looks like, in my situation, the 109" SW is the 
  vehicle to have.  I will soon be on the prowl for such.  When I go out 
  with the whole tribe of five and spouse, it is for day trips only.  The 
  longer trips will be just Tera and I but not until the tribe is a few 
  years older (and I'm out of school) and the extra room will handle the 
  rather largish canvas wall tent well, I suppose...  From the sounds of 
  it, most of you people cherish the stock motif.  That's good and dandy, I 
  don't really want to sink a bunch-a-bucks into an untried combination of 
  gear.  Upgrades that seem prudent and warrantable for me will be...an OD, 
  1-ton shackles, a PTO winch, a roof rack, ARB air-lockers, Salisbury rear 
  axle, Atlantic British weber convesion and manifolds on a Turner engine 
  (if affordable), and 4.7 diff gears (maybe lower? Don't want to affect 
  highway driveability too much!) turning BFG mud terrains on 7.50 x 16" 
  wheels.  Sounds almost ideal to me!  And the fact that I have awhile to 
  make the dream come true before I can really flex its muscle.  I am not 
  looking for a moster truck wanna-be, but a capable off-roader that isn't 
  a J##p or land crusher.  I think this is a match made in heaven!  Thanks 
  again for the help.
  
  Michael Roberts
  Portland,Oregon
  psu00712@odin.cc.pdx.edu
  
  P.S.  How much is that kitchen suite conversion, and how much gear can I 
  actually stow in the new air lockers? :-) 

  PPS  Sorry if this is a repost, my system crashed and burned on my 
  modem and was unable to verify transmission!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:28:51 -0400
From: michelbe@login.net (Michel)
Subject: Ford 302 engine conversion question

Hello all, 

I have heard of a 109 SW that is sitting about 300 miles from here. It is
known to have a Ford 302 engine installed. Does anybody know what was
butchered when this swap took place? I am thinking of putting a 2.25 engine
back in (if I decide to purchase the beast) but would like to know if it
needs a lot of work to do so. 

I guess that the bulkhead was modified. How bad?
Were the engine mounts on the frame replaced, or does it still have the
original ones? 

Just wondering how hard it is to bring it back to (almost) stock.

Thanks in advance,

 
Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
             ______________________ 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________|| ()|______| 1963 IIA 109 PU (top is off) (Rudolph)
            |          ||---|  /\ |  and friends (109 SW + 88 sw) (not shown) 
            |__________||---|_ \/_| 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________||___|______|
                                             

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:29:51 -0700
From: aj536@lafn.org (Mike McCarthy)
Subject: D110 for sale

I am posting this for a neighbor:

1993 D110, Fully Loaded, Alpine White (aren't they all?), full light 
cages, seat covers, floor and cargo mats, Rover removeable sun roof, 
hood-mounted and rear-mounted spare tires, California car, never 
off-road, 58,000 miles, #400 of 500, $43,500 obo.  Call (310) 478-0277 
(Los Angeles).

You can call him directly or if you respond to me by email, I will 
forward the notes to him.  Thanks.

--
Mike McCarthy
aj536@lafn.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:07:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy)
Subject: Seat Box Side Replacements

   After becoming fed up with trying to duplicate the entire side of the
seat base myself(too many angles and bends for me!), I took the thing to
the local sheet metal shop and they called today and said both left and
right complete pieces will cost $43.00.  This seems reasonable to me!  It
sure beats patching the rear edge where the seatbelt mount is located.  If
anyone is in need of these pieces and would like the name and number of
this shop, I can supply it.  They used slightly heavier gauge aluminum than
standard.  If they can't ship to you, I can!

Cheers!  John Cassidy   Bangor, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:36:32 -0600 (MDT)
From: Andrew Howton <ahowton@agt.net>
Subject: ford engine in a Land Rover

Michel Bertrand asks about: 
>I have heard of a 109 SW that is sitting about 300 miles from here. It is
>known to have a Ford 302 engine installed. Does anybody know what was
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>original ones? 
>Just wondering how hard it is to bring it back to (almost) stock.

I've got a 109 NADA with a ford 289 in it.  In my case the conversion has
made the vehical far too difficult to put back to original.  As a result I
have parted it out.  The bulkhead was cut up a bit but it was the rust that
finished this part,  the engine mounts were cut off and the frame has
failed,  the radiator and the front pannel were cut up quite bad.  Almost
all the under hood parts for the rover are missing and the conversion is not
a reliable looking affair as a whole.  I have seen the same type of
conversion done on a 2.25L Ser IIa 88in and it was an even worse job.  GOOD
LUCK! I hope you have an extra parts rover if you try this one.

Andrew Howton

------------------------------

From: AKBLACKLEY@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:06:04 -0400
Subject: Security by .308

If you must protect your Land Rover by firearms said weaponry should be
appropriate to the year and model. Three that come to mind are:

Series I : Lee-Enfield No.4 MKI .303 or No.1 MkIII for Ozzies.
SeriesII, III, D90: FAL L1A1 .308
Range Rover: Purdy shotgun

Perhaps someone else can suggest something for other models.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 16:53:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Douglas C. Marbourg" <marbourg@lanl.gov>
Subject: D90 For Sale

Well,  I regret to inform that a friend of mine is forced to sell his '94
D90 #1748.  He is my/our local area LR mechanic, and has kept the vehicle
very well. The vehicle is red and has the rear seat, soft top, and the '95
trans/clutch. It has 25.5K miles and is a very "tight" vecichle.  The asking
price is $28.5.  If anyone is interested you can contact me via email or
Bill Rhoades directly @ (505)474-3610.

Doug Marbourg, '94 NAS D90 #1123
Santa Fe, New Mexico

marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

From: AKBLACKLEY@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:04:19 -0400
Subject: MOD Tool Time

Clinton D. Coates inquired about MOD tools, so I answer, to wit: 1) Shovel
blade is one piece pressed steel blade and socket riveted to wood handle.
Similar in beefitude to the "big'un" hanging on the garage wall by Union Hoe
and Fork. Question is : is it also heat treated? I dont know. The pick has
 pointed and mattock (flat) ends. The pick head is a sep. part that press
fits onto the handle, which means if you dont jam it on good n tite it could
fly off. It is meant to be portable mainly. A weak point of the shovel is the
cute tee handle on the end - v. retro and old world. It might break if a big
lug (like me) really leaned into it. Cheers. Andy Blackley

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: RE: D110 for sale
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 10:57:00 EDT

>I am posting this for a neighbor:

>1993 D110, Fully Loaded, Alpine White (aren't they all?), full light

What's that, your neighbor is loaded??

Rgds
Simon

------------------------------

Date: 	Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:21:47 -0700
From: cyoungso@direct.ca (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Removal of bolts?

I am trying to remove the spring bolts at the very front of the truck. They
seem to be held in by the rubber bush. I have tried everything I can think 
of, greasing, pulling pushing. Does anyone have any suggestions? 

Thanx, Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:38:50 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Security by .308

At 08:06 PM 4/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>If you must protect your Land Rover by firearms said weaponry should be
>appropriate to the year and model. Three that come to mind are:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Range Rover: Purdy shotgun
>Perhaps someone else can suggest something for other models.

You did not mention the Disco.  Perhaps....

Discovery: Enfield Weapon System L85A1 5.56mm

Your Range Rover selection is nice but in my town the only choice for the
Range Rover is the Ruger Red Label or Woodside over-and-under.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport NH (Ruger's main plant) USA   603-863-7883

(But really, Newport is nice and safe enough to leave the ordnance at home.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:53:43 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: LR screen savers

Eric wrote:

>Been running the saver for a few days now....no problems so far.

So have I.  Unfortunately, this morning, I found a puddle of stuff that 
looked suspiciously like 90 weight underneath my PC....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:08:59 -0400
From: michelbe@login.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: Removal of bolts?

Chris was asking: 

>I am trying to remove the spring bolts at the very front of the truck. They
>seem to be held in by the rubber bush. I have tried everything I can think 
>of, greasing, pulling pushing. Does anyone have any suggestions? 

Personally, I like the air-tool approach. First, Impact driver: If the bolt
can't turn, it will with an impact driver. It will come out sort of easy. If
it still can't get out, use an air-impact-hammer (is that the name for it?).
With the vibrations, it will come out. 

Another solution, more drastic, is to use a rat-tail electric saw and to cut
off both ends of the bolt between the spring ans the horn. The spring will
fall off, with the help of a pry-bar, and all you have to do is burn the
rubber piece of the bushing and you will have the bolt free (still welded to
the inner bushing but who cares?) 

Of course, this job is painful, very frustrating and could seem to take
forever. Well, look at it this way: It's only a preview for the next task:
putting new bushings in..:-) 

P.S. Putting bushings in a Series frame should be a special task of the
Camel Trophy, in my opinion.

Good luck, and keep the faith! Your Rover will surely be blessed when you're
done with the bushing job.

Salut!

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
             ______________________ 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________|| ()|______| 1963 IIA 109 PU (top is off) (Rudolph)
            |          ||---|  /\ |  and friends (109 SW + 88 sw) (not shown) 
            |__________||---|_ \/_| 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________||___|______|
                                             

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:32:06 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: lift door for tailgate

At  9:58 PM 4/21/96 -0700, johnliu@earthlink.net wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Apr 1996 Land-Rover-Owner said to johnliu@earthlink.net
>   >I need to find al alternative method for attaching the lift door
;   >that sits above the tailgate.  I no longer have room to swing the
>   >lid up.
;
>Why no more room to swing up the upper door?
;
Because since you saw my 109 a week and a half ago at the Monterey field
meet The tropical top got replaced by a Dormobile pop up top.  The pop up &
rear gutter removes the clearence you need to lift the top door.

>Anyway, why not get a one piece SW door?  Then you could rig up a neat
>little fold-down table on the inside door.

I gave it a lot of thought and decided that i just like to sit on the tail
gate too often.  I will have a stove on one side of the rear entrance and a
jump seat on the other.  There would be no space for a table & using the
stove & seat.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com   <- NOTE NEW ADDRESS

Celebrating my tenth year on Usenet/Internet

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:49:16 -0700
From: kelvinc@terrestrial.com (Kelvin Crezee)
Subject: Re: D90 Recall

Recall for D90 is to replace the pressure plate for the clutch assembly and
the other is, well, I'm alzheimering on that other item but I will post it
within the next 24-48 hrs.

Kelvin Crezee
AZ LRO D90

Kelvin Crezee

kelvinc@terrestrial.com

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:57:35 +0000
Subject:       Re: Removal of bolts?

> I am trying to remove the spring bolts at the very front of the truck. They
> seem to be held in by the rubber bush. I have tried everything I can think 
> of, greasing, pulling pushing. Does anyone have any suggestions? 
Having just removed both front springs (last night -- in the rain)...

The front springs have 3 bolts:
    Front of spring to chassis
    Rear of spring to hanger
    Spring hanger to chassis
    
The first one is a simple bolt. I had to use a lenght of steel rod to 
hammer it out.

The two rear bolts thread onto the inner spring hanger, which is then 
locked in place with a self-locking nut.

What I did, which proved painless, was to support the vehicle on two 
axel stands (resting on it's front bumper) and then use a trolly-jack 
to lift up the axel to take the weight off the spring. I then undid 
the 4 self-locking bolts holding the U-bolts and lowered the axel 
down onto supports, which allowed the springs to decompress properly. 
The bottom plate, with the shock-absorber attached, I just swiveled 
out the way and have left it all still joined together.

Next I removed the three self-locking bolts from the spring-bolts 
(they should all be on the inside of the chassis). Then I undid the 
bolt holding the spring hanger to the chassis and pulled it out (a 
ring spanner with your fingers behind the bolt head and you can 
"unbolt" it from the bush)

Lastly, I tapped the front bolt out.

It does help, however, that I've painted EP-90 onto the sides of my 
springs, the spring bolts and spring hangers every Sunday for the 
past few months.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

------------------------------

Date: 24 Apr 96 05:22:03 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Who's going to the ARC Nationals?

Actually the 'proper' place to discuss things ARC-Rallywise would be the
list  uk-arc-nr, but it seems people are ignoring that list (or I haven't
subscribed properly).
Anyway, it seems we already have two meeting-points, one being the Newconcept
stand with this air jackoff thing that can lift a Land Rover (sounds
interesting), and Jim Pappas' - er, I meant to say BSROA'S club stand which,
I presume, will again be strategically placed more or less in front of the
main marquee as usual...

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 24 Apr 96  6:38:19 EDT
Subject: Heat-related problem - vapor lock?

Vapor lock, of all things.

80-degree day, 2.25 with an 82C thermostat. Bopping down the highway, 
thermostat reads about 85C. All well and good. Get into a slow crawl for a 
minute or two, then try to accelerate and the engine power drops out like a 
Hefty bag of soup off a cliff. Sputter and fart for 45 seconds to a minute, 
then it takes off.

Corrollary problem: Drive for a while, heat up the Rover, then park for 10 
minutes. Engine restarts a bit reluctantly, then drive off after a minute or 
two of idle. Put the power to it accelerating, get into second gear and it's 
hefty bag off the cliff time again.

Fuel filter is fresh. Tonight, I replaced the fuel pump, figuring insufficient 
pressure might have been causing my problem. Bruce at DAP also suggested gas 
with too damn much alcohol in it, specifically mentioning the brand I usually 
purchase. Also, on replacing the pump the bottom half of the bowl was full of 
crap from the tank.

Any ideas I missed? I also tried retarding the timing a few degrees to get the 
engine to run cooler, and I have a 74C thermostat on order.

This engine is beginning to get on my nerves..... -ajr
 

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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