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Subject: Rick Grant Ottawa please read this
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 23:32:40 -0500

Would Rick Grant of Ottawa please contact me . Thank you

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Dixons follies
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 23:31:33 -0500

Dont worry folks, I'm in the process of getting from Ted Rose (non 
netter) all the info on Dixons award.

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 7:37:09 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Missing Rover/Happy Holidays

Just wanted to wish everyone Happy Holidays & enjoy your Rovers!

My D90 is still at RN, been there sense 12/16/95. There tracking down and 
fixing a very strange diff/ARB problem I've been having. Should be getting 
it back soon but unfortunately probably not before Christmas.

I really enjoy reading the list every morning with my coffee. What a great 
way to start the day, and share information with the only other people out 
there that understand what it's like to be a LRO. Plus lots of great ideas 
on customizing, accessories, Etc.!

I hope to have a chance to possibly meet some of you in the coming new 
year, see your Rover's, and get in some great off-roading together!

P.S. It's okay, I won't snicker if you drive a different LR model than me! 
(Early morning attempt at humor)

ROVER'S RULE THE BACK COUNTRY!!

Enjoy & best wishes to all,

Barnett
Missing my Rover, especially in all this snow!
Childress
  

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Gearbox Additives
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:46:00 EST

Danny Philips writes "Has anyone used Slick 50 gearbox treatment?"
I used this on Miss Golightly and have been pleased with the results. 
Transmission seems quieter and smoother. The axle once went 12 miles without 
oil when one of the ring gear bolts blew a hole in the casing and there were 
no signs of damage except for the bits of bolt. This happened some miles 
after a broken halfshaft (see earlier thread on halfshafts and ring gear 
bolts). The only problem I've noticed is due to the easy turning of the 
gearbox first always engages with a clash unless I use third syncro to stop 
the spin before trying for first. YMMV

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: still alive
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 01:24:32 +1100 (EDT)

Hello all,
I have not disappeared, well not completely anyway.
Many things have kept me from the keyboard since uni "holidays" started.
My "holiday" so far has been working full time and non stop things to do 
outside business hours... Some of the more interesting ones for Rover 
watchers are:

Salisbury rear end from late 110 county obtained and most of the way 
converted to suit bolting a Range Rover on top of it. Currently fiddling 
with bits of locker and redesigning a little. Once the rest of the lock 
is complete, the whole lot will be installed.

PTO (winch drive type) to suit Range Rover 4 speed gearbox obtained. 
Cleaning up tonight and installing soon. PTO shafts should be fun to 
thread through the extractors.....

Thanks to all who have helped point me to sources for the above mentioned 
items over the last few months. 
I have many 110 rear end bits surplus from the change to RR discs and 
calipers. Basically the complete rear brake/hub assemblies less axles, 
drive flanges and stubs. Also rear coils, shocks, A frame, Load leveller, 
trailing arms etc. If anyone is interested just ask, I would like to sell 
of swap as many bits as possible. All offers considered ( on the parts! )
:)

Those Silverstone offroad tyres I have mentioned before are now available 
in Melbourne:  Silverstone MT 117 - cross ply tyre, broken herring bone 
pattern. Size: 285 85 16 
They are actually not all that different in size to 9.00 16s, but perhaps 
wider. Seem to work quite well on an 88 with transit van diffs and locks, 
hope to try them on the RR soon (after the salisbury is in to avoid a *snap*)
Handling is MUCH more predictable than Super Swampers and MUCH quieter on 
road too. Tyre is 6 ply rated, so ride is quite nice compared to say SATs 
(8 ply in 7.50 16). Owner says that they climb out of ruts wheras his 36" 
swampers simply ploughed on regardless of where he steered. He has only 
had them a short while, so not much to go on yet. The big advantage of 
these over most other large mud tyres is cost: currently around A$200 ea.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! (In case I stay away again....)

seeya 

Brian.
77 RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 20:27:39 -30000
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	  Contents:
  1 tomills@du.edu     Wed Dec 20 02:59   29/1518  Re: LR Off Road School / 
  2 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Wed Dec 20 04:57   40/1469  Re: Dixons abilities
  3 S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk Wed Dec 20 05:01   25/1158  Merry Christmas to all LR
  4 rich@apricot.mee.com Wed Dec 20 05:06   42/2320  Fwd: '96 County Classic
  5 nataraja@cig.mot.com Wed Dec 20 05:22   45/2724  Cappings and Galvanizing
  6 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Wed Dec 20 05:58   43/2521  New Years Mojave Road tri
  7 wrm@ccii.co.za     Wed Dec 20 06:48   51/2223  Re: Whit
  8 danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk Wed Dec 20 07:20   33/1791  washing a disco
  9 STUARTW@po1.net.cho.ge.com Wed Dec 20 08:10   37/1540  Thermal Differences ...
 10 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Wed Dec 20 08:16   27/1572  Noises that go away.
 11 lzeltzer@bsd1.isdnet.com Wed Dec 20 08:28   28/1599  Purchasing dilemma
 12 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Wed Dec 20 08:36   31/1771  Half Shafts
 13 TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Wed Dec 20 09:15   54/2523  Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Sh
 14 TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Wed Dec 20 09:30   45/1925  Re: Half Shafts
 15 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Wed Dec 20 09:46   42/2099  Re: Freewheel Insecurity
 16 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Wed Dec 20 09:55   30/1185  Re: Dixons abilities
 17 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Wed Dec 20 10:00   39/1875  Re: Dixons abilities
 18 add@philabs.research.philips.com Wed Dec 20 10:25   55/3284  New Disco great in the sn
 19 tbwill@interserv.com Wed Dec 20 10:26   32/1841  Disco Pricing
 20 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Wed Dec 20 11:31   26/1406  Willys
 21 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Wed Dec 20 11:46  111/5068  Pictures of Camel Trials
 22 tbonanno@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 20 11:57   41/2269  Front end wobble
 23 tbonanno@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 20 11:57   56/2852  Broken Axles Experiences
 24 sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Wed Dec 20 12:07   63/2939  Re: Whit
 25 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Wed Dec 20 12:10   74/3078  Re: Whit
 26 jtackley@DIT2.state.va.us Wed Dec 20 12:22   23/1122  Washing a Disco......
 27 g@ix.netcom.com    Wed Dec 20 13:13   30/1305  Re: Washing a Disco......
 28 gpool@pacific.pacific.net Wed Dec 20 13:18   54/2914  RE: WHEELS & TIRES
 29 bennett@mv.us.adobe.com Wed Dec 20 13:25   26/1245  Re: Disco pricing
 30 chrisste@clark.net Wed Dec 20 13:37   39/1570  Heat Not Hot
 31 Harincar@mooregs.com Wed Dec 20 14:06   30/1323  Rancho RS5000 shocks - 4/
 32 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Wed Dec 20 14:16   26/1382  Re: Washing a Disco......
 33 ASFCO@aol.com      Wed Dec 20 14:31   17/1141  wrenches
 34 Land_Rover@msn.com Wed Dec 20 15:05   20/1050  SI more info
 35 tdj@fore.com       Wed Dec 20 15:07   90/4130  Disco antenna replacement
 36 g@ix.netcom.com    Wed Dec 20 16:05   29/1399  RE: WHEELS & TIRES
 37 g@ix.netcom.com    Wed Dec 20 16:05   30/1458  Re: Disco antenna replace
 38 Land_Rover@msn.com Wed Dec 20 16:39   13/801   Spotting S1 stuff
 39 sbar@jna.com.au    Wed Dec 20 17:00   44/1943  RE: wrenches
 40 Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz Wed Dec 20 17:10   31/1769  Re: Whit
 41 sbar@jna.com.au    Wed Dec 20 17:17   24/1220  RE: Spotting S1 stuff
 42 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Wed Dec 20 17:33   47/2634  'Cappings' and rivet etiq
 43 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Wed Dec 20 18:02   45/2808  Re: Half Shafts
 44 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Wed Dec 20 18:14   25/1485  Re: Spotting S1 stuff
 45 rgrant@synapse.net Wed Dec 20 20:13   88/4850  Bosnia travels
 46 sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de Wed Dec 20 21:45   26/1440  Range Rover lift/springs
 47 Wdcockey@aol.com   Wed Dec 20 22:11   50/2074  Re: Whitworth - Info.
 48 rover@pinn.net     Wed Dec 20 22:57   34/1747  Lugnuts
 49 cyoungso@Direct.CA Wed Dec 20 22:58   35/1688  Re: wrenches
 50 rover@pinn.net     Wed Dec 20 22:57   42/2401  Breaking up is hard to do
 51 g@ix.netcom.com    Wed Dec 20 23:11   23/1118  Disco head lamp levelling
 52 A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za Thu Dec 21 01:23   47/2268  Re: clutch & clunk (was: 

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: LR Off Road School / Colorado?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:02:06 -0700 (MST)

 Anyone know anything about this?
< David Dodell

Contact Tom Collins, POB 587, Snowmass, CO 81654, 970-927-3788.  He is 
also the Camel Trophy USA Team coordinator.  I think the school is 
jointly operated by the Colorado and San Diego LR dealerships.

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:57:34 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Dixons abilities

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
>FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

He was perfectly OK with the phone when he rang me to sympathise with
my decorating "sentence".Wasnt even shouting.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:56:01 GMT
From: "S.W.Brierley" <S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk>
Subject: Merry Christmas to all LRO's (Early-going away)

Hi all Fellow LRO's,

Just a christams wish to you all from myself(stu) and EMMA, 
my SerIII SWB.
I am going away for christmas to Suffolk and will not have net access,
so i'll say it now.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

C U all in '96
Stu and EMMA.

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: Fwd: '96 County Classic
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 9:57:33 +0000 (GMT)

Mark Clemence writes:
> 	I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the U.S. and am leasing a '93 County SWB 
> 	through August of '96. I was hoping to replace the vehicle at that time with a 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 	4.0 and 4.6. A decision is apparently due soon. Does anybody have any further 
> 	details?

The last Classic is currently scheduled to come off the line on February 8th 1996,
and from there be driven to the Heritage Museum at Gaydon where it will take up
residence.

It will be the last (no 25) of the 25th Anniversary Final Edition (the other 24 have
already been built).  Incidentally no 25 should have been built already to since 
all right hand drive production has now finished, but it is being held up for the 
camera's.  Current build is purely European spec left hand drive vehicles.
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside               Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park    Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom              Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Cappings and Galvanizing
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 04:22:42 -0600 (CST)

I've noticed a fair amount of rust on the rear cappings of my 66 SWB,
maybe from the PO steel-wooling them before he sold it.  (It looked OK
at the time.)

I would rather leave them au-natural (as is) then paint them, but...

I've also noticed an ad by "Shire 4x4" in Oxfordshire selling
re-galvanized cappings.  It would be nice to not have to worry about
rusty cappings for a few decades...

How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace
the cappings.  Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old
pop-rivets which hold on the badges.  How hard is it to use a 'real'
rivet gun?  Anyone ever replaced these babies?

Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel Natarajan                            Phone:  +44-1793-566-323
Motorola Inc.                            Fax:    +44-1793-430-987
Email:  nataraja@cig.mot.com             Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: New Years Mojave Road trip 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 03:00:07 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

	Gerry Elam posted a little bit on this last week (on the main list).  
Since I'll be away for most of next week, I put together a web page with more 
details, a brief map and some photos from when I drove the road last May.  

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/MojaveRoad.html

	Note that in some postings a few of the GPS coordinates were off
by 7 minutes of longitude (mea culpa--I screwed up marking my map).  The
web page has the coordinates that I think are correct (but are subject to 
my measurement mistakes).

	In brief a number of the California and Arizona Rovers are spending
New Years weekend driving the old Mojave Wagon Road.  This is a light offroad
and was not challenging last May (dry conditions).  Any Rovers are welcome.
If you want to come email me or Gerry because it would be nice to know how
many people are coming ahead of time.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 13:46 GMT-0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: Re: Whit

Hi all

So Mike sez:
>Whit,(BSW,or British Standard Whitworth),BSF(British Standard
>Fine),and BA (British Association),are all Imperial.
>The numbers denote the diameter of the bolt itself.So 1/4"Whit
>is a 1/4" dia bolt,Whitworth threaded.The number of threads

Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size
head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word
than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth
bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners?

The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed
to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-)

So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four
spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size?

What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil
dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what
fits where?

Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-)

Wouter
--
Wouter de Waal        Phone : +27 21 683 5490
Development Engineer  Fax   : +27 21 683 5435
CCII Systems
Kenilworth, South Africa

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: washing a disco
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 12:18:51 GMT

Gerald
wrote :
> What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud
> and salt off a Disco? I guess there are some spots underneath I need
> to pay attention to.

one thing to look out for is the ariel, i stuck mine through a car wash and
was so preoccupied about the list of jobs and errands my wife had given me i 
had to sit and watch in horror as the brush things changed my straight arial 
into a peice of bendy wire uri geller would have been proud to produce.
:-)
oh well it still works and i may just have to get out the manual and change it.

by the way the haynes manual only has 4 lines on this, and it says that once
you have removed the splash guard, then disconnect the areil connector, i have
only ever seen ariels with the connector that goes right into the radio, or 
have the lr mechs been sensible about where the connectors are sitiuated.

------------------------------

From: Stuart Williams <STUARTW@po1.net.cho.ge.com>
Subject: Thermal Differences ...
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:12:00 EST

All,

Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix 
weather in the dead of summer?  After all, he'd have to .sig his messages 
with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ...

> Merry Christmas to all!  May all of your Land Rover Dreams come true!
> Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam

Ah, but it's *dry* heat, right Gerry?

Cheers,

Stuart "Charlottesville high: 32" Williams
'95 Discovery V8i
'85 LandCruiser (non-plushmobile)

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Noises that go away.
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:18:00 EST

Regarding the thread on engine noises that go away, get worse or deafen the 
operator.
When I added sound proofing to Miss Golightly I found it psychologically 
disturbing to not hear all the noises I was used to.
Then again Series owners are psychologically disturbed, noises or not.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:27:46 -0700
From: Lee Zeltzer <lzeltzer@bsd1.isdnet.com>
Subject: Purchasing dilemma 

A month or so ago I posted a request for leads to purchase a used D110. 
Instead I plunked down a deposit on a new D90 hardtop which is due in next 
week. Currently I own and love a 94 Discovery, however I cannot pry it out of 
my wife's hands. 

Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a 
better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? 

I post this not to start a debate but frankly because I am torn beteen the 
creature comforts of another Discovery and the fact that I live in the best 4 
wheel drive country in the world; Arizona.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Half Shafts
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:38:00 EST

To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each 
of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. 
This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the 
front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, 
driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no 
parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and 
continue.

Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:17:00 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More

Wdcockey@aol.com writes;

> Actually, with the differential locked both power and torque are "divided"
 according to the  respective traction on each wheel. This is a function of
 the rubber/ground interface, and any differences in tire diameters.
 
 With a totally open differential TORQUE is split evenly (in an axle) or
 according to the designed ratio in a center diff. Power is speed times
 torque, and therefore will be split according to wheel speed. This equal
 split of torque is why single wheelspin happens. When the torque exceeds the
 traction available to one wheel, it starts to spin and the other tire
> continues to have the same torque.
 
Sure, go and get technical on me. OK, I admit it was a sloppy 
statement (but aren't LR's about getting in the slop?).
It was an ineffective way of trying to say you won't suddenly have a 
lot of power going to a wheel with nowhere to go except to break, or 
weaken, a half shaft, as you would with a detroit locker type diff. 
One wheel isn't going to be spinning madly and suddenly stop.
Sheeesh, you engineer types. ;-)
But it's ok, I understand. I get the same way about welding & pipefitting.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:32:01 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Half Shafts

 Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton writes:

> To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each 
 of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. 
This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the 
 front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, 
 driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no 
 parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and 
> continue.

This also shows that we all should spend more time off road so we 
don't break half shafts.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 20 Dec 95  9:40:20 EST
Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity

>This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the 
>front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, 
>driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no 
>parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and 
>continue.

Dunno about this.... Having driven Churchill with the hubs locked and unlocked, 
I will say that I need the extra 10MPH and fuel mileage I get with the front 
hubs unlocked. Turning all that machinery just doesn't make a lot of sense when 
it's not imminently needed. There's little enough power in a 2.25 to waste it 
on spinning inert metal.....

As far as the broken half-shaft scenario goes, that is why I have wheel chocks. 
If there's no one behind you, that's what CURBSTONES are for....or rocks.....or 
pedestrians.....8*)

>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton

Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:55:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Dixons abilities

On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:

> come on Dixon 'fess up.

	Lies...  (It was 21 years between oil filter changes, not 17)

	rumours...  (You couldn't tell I drove over my landlords lamp post)

	Not my fault!... (no comment)

	I've been framed!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:00:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Dixons abilities 

On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

>    I haven't heard all of the details and have been waiting to see what
> got printed in the newsletter.  Last I heard Dixon had a long list of 
> nominees including myself (though I can't recall what for off hand).  
> The day after he got the award, Dixon was mumbling on how Dale Despray 
> had sandbagged him.

	Dale is very unhappy about the newsletter.  Seems I lost his and
	Ted's list of these supposed transgressions.  However, to balance
	things out, and being editor, the newsletter is going to be much
	more entertaining this year (I ain't gonna be the first to get it
	twice), starting with Dale...  I did tell them I would print any
	article-type thing they wished to write.  It would be filed in
	a new fiction section in the newsletter

> Maybe Robin will have to enlighten us.  :-)

	Robin missed the party... :-)  You're going to have to get Dale
	to talk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:24:22 EST
From: add@philabs.research.philips.com (Aninda V. Dasgupta)
Subject: New Disco great in the snow, but has audio hum

I got a new Avalon Blue Discovery last Friday. (For those discussing prices
of Discos, I got mine for more than $1000 off MSRP, then added many "options"
at dealer cost.)  

I drove my Disco to the Finger Lakes region of NY state last weekend, and
it was snowing heavily at times. Yesterday we had the season's highest 
snowfall, and while most of my coworkers stayed home for the day, I decided to 
leave work with about a foot of snow on the ground.  And I must say that I was 
impressed and immensely pleased with the way my Disco handled in the snow.  I 
didn't feel any skidding or wheel-slippage, although granted that I don't drive 
like most 4x4 nuts out on the road who think the weather can't touch them.

The two minor problems I have had so far with the Disco are:

1) The passenger seat recliner knob broke off with ouur first attempt to
     recline the seat.  I am debating whether to just put the knob back on
     with some crazy glue, or wait till I take the car for service to the dealer

2) The audio system has a hum which increases in pitch as I rev the engine.
   I hear the hum even when the volume is turned off.  I guess the audio
   system is picking up noise from the coil which may not be shielded.
   Or it could be that the dealer didn't install the CD changer properly.
   Can anyone on this list offer me advice as to what I can do to get rid
   of the hum?  My dealer is more than an hour away, and I don't really
   want to make the trip down there unless I have to.

But all in all, it's indeed a pleasure to drive this vehicle.  Hope this
level of satisfaction continues.  Thanks to many members of this list
who helped me with advice on the Discovery before and during my purchase
of the vehicle.

Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year everyone!

-Aninda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aninda DasGupta (add@philabs.philips.com) Ph:(914)945-6071 Fax:(914)945-6552
Philips Labs\n 345 Scarborough Rd\n  Briarcliff Manor\n NY 10510
"Err.., Phillips Petroleum gives you gas; fortunately Phillips Chemical
 makes antacid. Philips is with one "el"; we make lightbulbs, and other shtuff."

------------------------------

From: tbwill@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:24:35 -0800
Subject: Disco Pricing

> Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco?  I'm looking 
> at the bottom end, box-stock SD model.  Does anyone know the margin on these 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>       |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
>       |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
>       *-----------------------------------------------------*
Out here on the West Coast, we have the "Kelly Blue Book" auto price guide. This 
used to be only for used cars, but now thay have a new car version. To get to 
the point, they show the cost of a 1995 "loaded" Discovery at 88.74% of the MSRP
(MSRP - $36,575, Cost - $32,456). The local dealer confirmed this when he showed 
me the dealer cost of a demo I was contemplating buying. The figures were 
identical to the ones in the Kelly Blue Book. Hope this helps. By the way I took 
delivery of the Disco last Thursday.

Tom Williams
Fresno, CA

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Willys
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 09:11:00 EST

Bill Adams writes "Don't tread on my Willys"
:-) How appropriate that someone who signs off 3Dmentia should have had two 
willys
:-)

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Pictures of Camel Trials
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:57:00 EST

LRNA press release for December 10 mentions the availability of pictures at 
http://www.featurephoto.com and 
http:www.4x4u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats-newcamelt1.htm. If anyone gets 
pictures from these sites can they Email me some bmps or gifs as I don't 
have access.

 Thanks
Trevor Easton

This is the release. Typos courtesy of my scanner and OCR

FOUR FINALISTS ANNOUNCED FOR CAMEL TROPHY KALIMANTAN '96
         World's most intense four-wheel drive adventure is "tough fun"

         HOLLlSTER, Calif - December 10, 1995 - After more than thirty-two 
hours
         of grueling marathon trials here this weekend, four finalists have 
been selected for
         the United States' 1996 Camel Trophy team. Two of these four will 
go on to
         represent the U.S. in April when two-person teams from twenty 
nations travel to
         Kalimantan, Indonesia on the island of Borneo, for the adventure of 
a lifetime.
         Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, N.J.; Ken 
Cameron,
         26, a carpenter from Vail, Colo.; Fred Hoess, 29, a champion 
motorcycle racer
         from Stanhope, N.J.; and Greg Oberst, 36, a firefighter and 
paramedic from Seal
         Beach, Calif. will travel to the Camel Trophy International 
Selections in Seville,
         Spain next February, where they will vie for the chance to 
represent the USA in the
         "Olympics of Four-Wheel Drive."
         "Whether you know it or not, you prepare tor something IIKe this 
most of
         your life: a challenging new venue filled with multiple things to 
do in a short time.
         It's tough fun," said Hoess.
                  Oberst described the punishing 1,000-mile trek as "a 
multi-sport adventure
         that fits my lifestyle."
         The National Trials in Hollister were the first step in determining 
the U.S.
         team. Nine candidates, chosen from more than 400 applicants, 
competed in such
         individual and group tasks as hoisting a full 55-gallon drum one 
meter above the
         ground using only three logs, two pulleys and a length of rope; 
winching a vehicle
         uphill by hand; and crossing an algae-covered pond on a suspended 
rope,
         immediately after running six strenuous miles through the northern 
California hills.
         At night, the men used their Land Rover Discoverys, identical to 
the vehicles
         driven on the actual event, to demonstrate their off-road driving 
prowess. Slowed
         by a mud bog and then a near-vertical rock climb, the candidates 
winched their
         way, inch by inch, along the test course. While waiting their turns 
at the wheel,
         the competitors took written tests of map-reading, first-aid, and 
mechanical
         knowledge -- all critical Camel Trophy skills.
         The candidates are judged on their enthusiasm, their ability to 
perform
         arduous tasks under the most difficult conditions and their 
willingness to listen to
         new ideas and techniques. "Making the Camel Trophy team would be 
the
         achievement of a lifetime," said Cameron. "The Trials have already 
taught me that
         teamwork means letting the other guys have a voice and then picking 
a leader."
         For Brandner, Borneo "would be a different kind of growing 
experience...the
         trials have already shown me a lot of things I don't know and 
surprised me with
         some things I could do when challenged. I'll be growing myself."
         Camel Trophy is sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., marketer of 
Camel
         Trophy adventure gear and clothing and by Land Rover, manufacturer 
of premium
         British four-wheel drive vehicles. Additional U.S. Team support is 
provided by
         Coleman, Inc.
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:18 -0800
From: Tony Bonanno <tbonanno@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Front end wobble

Don't know if this observation is applicable to the postings I saw regarding
front end wobble, but thought it might be worth considering.

On my series IIA, noticed front end wobble/shimmy for several years with
hubs engaged (but without 4 WD selected) starting at speeds of 35 - 40 mph
and getting worse with more speed.  Dissappeared when hubs were unlocked and
front drive-train disengaged.  After considering several tire
balance/wheel/alignment/worn swivel pin, etc. possibilities, turned out to
be none of them.  What was causing the problem was worn splines in the
sliding joint of the front prop shaft.  The wear of the splines caused just
enough play to set up major vibration when turning at speed.  Remember, that
all of the front end drive train still turns when in two wheel drive (UNLESS
you have free wheeling hubs in the "free" position) and the angle of the
front drive shaft is somewhat more severe than the rear (thereby more
susceptible to wear problems?). Lesson here is keep that baby properly
lubed.  I have to admit, mine has been on the vehicle for about 25 years, so
I can't really complain.  Anyway, put a new front drive shaft on this
summer, and is it smooth now !!  NO vibration.  I just regret that it took
me so many years to figure out what was causing the vibration.

Cheers,

Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:15 -0800
From: Tony Bonanno <tbonanno@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Broken Axles Experiences

Like most of the others posting on this subject, I've had a few broken axles
over the past 25 years in my IIA SWB.  However, only once did I break an
axle off-road.  All the other times, I was just starting off on dry
pavement.  Obviously, stress was building up over a period of time and it
reaches the "breaking" point eventually..  Notice the "twisted" splines on
BOTH the half shafts when you break one.  I think I've learned a few things
though since I haven't had an axle break (knock on wood) for about the last
10 years.  A few items that I believe contribute to long axle life:

- All my broken axles occurred using "oversize" tires.  Since switching to
235/75's (I have 15" rims), no problem.

- Definitely replace both half shafts if one breaks..

- Stay away from cheap aftermarket half-shafts.  Back in the 70's, these
were quite common from certain suppliers here in the U.S.  I remember
someone did some hardness testing on the original equipment vs. the
aftermarket items.  The aftermarket stuff was horrible.

- Try to minimize excess slop in drive train (clutch judder, worn spring
shackles, etc.).

- Periodically check the condition of axle splines.  You can pull them out
in minutes.  Check for twisting of splines.  If any noticable twisting, I'd
replace ASAP.  

The one time I broke a half-shaft off-road, I was way out in the middle of
nowhere - on a high country track in southern Utah ... no one around to
assist and it was cold and dark.  Although risky (in terms of damaging my
rear diff from metal debris), I drove the 40 miles or so home using the
front axle (4WD High).  Next day, pulled the broken half shaft, dropped the
rear diff, removed the broken end from the carrier, cleaned things up, and
installed new axles.  Apparently, I didn't do any damage to rear diff from
broken pieces, etc.  Although, I can see how that could happen easily.

Cheers!

Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:00 +0000
Subject: Re: Whit

Wouter says:

..Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size
..head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word
..than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth
..bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners?
and
..Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-)

Whitworth was designed by Sir Joe Whitworth in 1841.  OD's on the
bolts were in fractions of an inch and the heads were standardised
but not by a simple relation to bolt OD as far as I can see.  I think
it had more to do with the hex stock that the bolts were made from in
that era.

Of course the States followed with their own slightly different copy
a little later.

Metric came along at the turn of the century.

Mike may well be right when he suggests a connection between BA and
metric as BA is a Swiss watch thread historically I seem to remember.

Back to the point in hand:  BSW heads are not all the same size.  Also
BSW and BSF spanners are the same sizes, but when used on BSF fits 'the
next bolt up'  ie a 5/16 BSF will fit a 1/4 Whit - again if my memory
serves me correctly.  If you're really stuck a 14mm spanner will fit a
9/16 BSF head, as I discovered - it's almost perfect in theory too!

You did ask...
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Best Regards,
Steve.

Dr Steve Methley	       *****     *****
HP Labs, Filton Road, 	       ***  /_  __ ***   email:	  sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK	       **  / / /_/  **   or	  sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk
direct line: +44 117 922 8751  ***    /    ***   fax: 	  +44 117 922 9286
switchboard: +44 117 979 9910  *****     *****   or		      8920

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:08 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Whit

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Hi all
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word
>than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth
>bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners?
*All* heads are a funny size if you look at it like that.But yes Imperial
spanners are different sizes to metric.
>The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed
>to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-)
AF spanners will fit most bolts on a Land Rover,including *some* Imperial.
But god help you if you try and shift a reluctant Whit bolt with an AF
spanner,'cos no-one else will:-) AF stands for Across Flats,is American,
and refers to the head size.The threads will be either UNF or UNC.

>So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four
>spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size?
>No,1/4" BSW,1/4"bsf are different spanners.BA is the diddy little things

you find on electrical stuff,so you need a set of diddy BA spanners.

>What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil
>dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what
>fits where?
You've got *sets*? Cor! A rich man!

>Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-)
Since when has easy been a recomendation.*So* much more restrictive,
dont you think?With the great range offered by Imperial/American
just *think* of all the things you can bolt together,using the
*correct* thread for the job,insted of the nearest that might do.
With luck.Imp/Am is so much better...

>Wouter
>--
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>CCII Systems
>Kenilworth, South Africa

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "John J. Tackley" <jtackley@DIT2.state.va.us>
Date:          Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:18:45 +0000
Subject:       Washing a Disco......

Gerald asks:

What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud
and salt off a Disco? 

personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and 
brandishing wash rags.....................

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:13:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Washing a Disco......

On 20 Dec 95 at 12:18, John J. Tackley wrote:
> Gerald asks:
> What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and 
> brandishing wash rags.....................

Are elephants Series devotees who might be a danger to my Disco?

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:21:31 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES

Ashley Horn asked:

>HEY Y'ALL,
>Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>people 
>using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16.

These wheels (nearly flat centers, five ovalish cooling slots, 7"x16")
should be available from Land Rover dealers as they were "stock" on NAS D90s
(but try to find a 90 with 'em!  JB had to do big-time arm-twisting to get
his 90 with 'em and not have to pay for the changeover--from "optional"
alloys!).  TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these
steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new,
takeoffs" for about $85 each.  Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25
pounds sterling each.  British Pacific (e-mail to britpac@aol.com) in
Burbank, CA is getting at least a pallet-load of brand new steel Disco
wheels soon and sounds like they will be somewhere around $70 each.  I'm
lusting for a set.  But if I get them I plan to fit them with 265/80R16
(=33x10.50x16) Interco Super Swamper TSL radials.  Fantastic tire for mud
and rock crawling.  But 235/85R16s would be ideal on these rims.

>P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them?

Really should have safety beads to run tubeless but these can be added by a
machine and welding shop.

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work
          In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
                In the midst of his laughter and glee,
            He had softly and suddenly vanished away--
                For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see.
                          --Lewis Carroll

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:27:13 PST
From: Bennett Leeds <bennett@mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Re: Disco pricing

>...Consumer Reports, they give 

> you a printout on the dealer invoice as well options..
> CR does charge $12 for each report...

If you're on the www, Edmund's has all that info for free. Try:
    http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds
    

- Bennett

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:34:22 -0500 (EST)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Heat Not Hot

Okay, okay. I know that these things aren't supposed to be warm in the
winter. Or draft-free for that matter. But the heater in the '69 SRIIa
doesn't seem to be putting out all the warmth it did last winter (and that
wasn't a lot of warmth, believe me). At idle, after warming up the beast
for several minutes, the heat is like room temperature. If I rev the
engine, by pulling out that Cold Start thing, it warms up. But as soon as I
slow the motor down the air cools off again. Is this a bad thermostat?

Chris

Chris Stevens                           1969 SRIIa 88" SW

Beckett Klay Communications
100 West Road
Baltimore, Maryland 21204
USA
(410) 583-1722
(410) 583-1935 (FAX)
chrisste@Clark.net

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:06:54 -0600
Subject: Rancho RS5000 shocks - 4/$99

Thanks for the replies - I called 4 wheel parts wholesalers (310-323-5337) 
and the shocks are on sale through the end of the year.

Get 'em while the gettin's good...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW "This is fun?"

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 20 Dec 95 14:10:26 EST
Subject: Re: Washing a Disco......

Re: Elephants being Series fans:

They should be, consideing they're both large, uuuuuugly, monolithic creatures 
at home in Africa, India and justaboutbloody everywhere else.....8*)

   aj"Theyre just not GREEN"r

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:30:14 -0500
Subject: wrenches

    Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has
a unique head design which they claim will fit any type bolt head or nut you
will encounter, even good for rounded off ones. It was called the METRINCH
and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody
else has seen or has these???   Regards   Steve Bradke  WA2GMC  72 s lll 88

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 20:00:31 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: SI more info

That S1 is a 53, had a frame over rebuild 4 years ago, needs tyres, top is 
dented. The starter is out, seems that someone had snapped the connector to 
attach the power. Brake, clutch all rebuilt. Has a 2 litre engine. He's asking 
$2500. 

Going for a drive Friday, will let you know if I take it or pass it on. 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 15:07:57 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Disco antenna replacement

Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric
retracting antenna and installing it.  I will be doing this when (not if) I
break my antenna again.  (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6
disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still <g>)

Caution, instructions given for antenna on right hand side, with passenger
on right hand side, eg US version.  I plead ignorance of UK versions, but
assume mirror image.

Camel "Lite" Task difficulty: 2
Camel "Lite" Time to complete: 2 hrs
Team activity?: Yes, except for Ben, who, having driven up the mountain for
.5 Jolt units, is oscillating so much from the caffine that he is
simultaneously in two places.  ;-)
Requires: 1 Disco, 1 Antenna, a few wrenches (spanners?), pop rivet tool,
small knife, fish.  Patience.

Exterior

1) The splash guard is attached with some weird pop rivets (about 3).  Be
prepare to remove & replace these.  They are attched along the inside of
the wheel well.  There are also about 8 plastic expanding things that are
like sleves with a pin inside that expands the end of the sleve.  The
little pin that pokes inside can be levered/extracted out with a sharp
pocket knife.  The plastic sleve/boltish thing can then be removed.  These
can be re-used.

2) Be VERY careful unbolting/torqueing the actual antenna.  The metal is
apparently soft and you can bend it.

3) Now, what I did was to snip the antenna wire close to the antenna, and
remove & install the new antenna.  You can reach your arm up there to do it
(see above caution,  Use some lockjaws or whatever to hold the unit while
someone else unscrews the nut.

4) I taped a fish to the old antenna wire and pulled it through the interior.

Interior

1) You must remove the floor trim panel on the side by where your
passengers feet go.  I recall there only being a screw that had a plastic
cap on it and then it sliped out.

2) You must lower the trim panel above where your passengers feet go.
(That's all as I recall).  This had a weird thing that looked like a big
pan headed plastic screw but really was sort of push in thing when it came
down to it.

3) The mess of wires up there is lucas's revenge.  For what I don't know.
:-)  Find the one that is the antenna wire, pull it and your fish through.
Note! Have your asitant guide the fish through all of the grommets without
becomming un attatched. I Find soapy water to help.

4) Attach the fish to the new wire and repeat the procedure.  Mine had some
replacement grommets to be reseated. ymmv.

5) The female end of the antenna wire is within reach in the mess of wires
in step 3 above.  You will find it pretty easily.  No radio removal or
center console removal is required (I know, I was amazed as well).

Dunno how you would put in a power one.  I will soon I'm sure.

Bon chance

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:30 -0500
Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES

On 20 Dec 95 at 10:21, Granville B. Pool wrote:
. . . .
> alloys!).  TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these
> steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new,
> takeoffs" for about $85 each.  Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25
> pounds sterling each.  
. . . .
How much do the steel Disco wheels weigh? Maybe I'll pick up a set
next time I'm in U.K. and bring them back as checked baggage.

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement

When ("not if) you install the power antenna please report back the
prcedure. Since it appears to be an option in the U.K. there may be
power for it.

On 20 Dec 95 at 15:07, Tom Des Jardins wrote:
> Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric
> retracting antenna and installing it.  I will be doing this when (not if) I
> break my antenna again.  (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6
> disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still <g>)
. . . .

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 21:20:16 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Spotting S1 stuff

Just wondering if anyone knows when the S1 went to 86" from 80" ? 

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: RE: wrenches
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:01:00 EST

These have been available in Oz for some years now.  I haven't seen them as 
a set though, only as individual units (makes it an expensive way to buy 
them) but they are very handy.  I have only seen them as 1/2" drive.  So far 
I only have a handfull, but they have saved a lot of cursing, grazed 
knuckles etc...

...and yes, they do work well on rounded off ones!!

BTW I have passed a brown 110 twice this week on the Harbour bridge with 
Christmas tinsel wrapped around the bull bar and the aerials.... Is he on 
the 'net??

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia

'90 5sp RR
'51 Series 1 (Louie)

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date:          Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:03:34 +1300
Subject:       Re: Whit

> The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed
> to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-)

What!  No 7/16?  That's the first spanner I had to buy two of 
for removing landy body parts (closely followed by the 1/2).
 
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: RE: Spotting S1 stuff
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:17:00 EST

Late 1953....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette

>How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace
>the cappings.  Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>Email:  nataraja@cig.mot.com             Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be 
done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal:
Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working.
Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and 
the sheet metal.Don't be shy. 3 to 5 blows should pop the head off and you 
can then drive the remaining rivet guts out of the hole with a small nail 
set. If you worry about marring the surface, try this on the inboard side of 
the panel.
For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the 
tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. 

I don't know about your area but I  take small stuff for galvanizing to a 
place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the 
size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do 
as a side job.

Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Half Shafts 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:04:11 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Trevor Easton wrote:
   To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each 
   of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. 
   This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the 
   front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, 
   driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no 
   parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and 
   continue.

	You could do that.  Whenever I've broken a half-shaft, I've stopped
immediatly.  The more you drive drive around, the greater the change that 
you'll suck a bit into the crowngear and blow the diff.  Almost every Rover
will have something in it that can be used as a chock.  If I'm not doing a
side-of-the-road repair, I remove the propshaft, remove both half shafts and
put the half-shaft end caps back on.  Then I move the Rover.  That way I
don't do any additional damage to the diff.

	Also why put needless wear and tear on the front diff and it's
linkage?  All that does is suck gas and decrease your top speed.

Ben, keeping my Warn hubs the way they are

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:16:59 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Spotting S1 stuff 

In message <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: 
             <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com> 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:16:51 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Mark Talbot asked:

> Just wondering if anyone knows when the S1 went to 86" from 80" ? 
	Autumn 1953.  (It's in the FAQ under Section 3, major evetns.)

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:14:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net>
Subject: Bosnia travels

Well I'm just back from a month in the former Yugoslavia and a hell of a lot
of it spent in various Land Rovers.

The most dramatic time was a week ago today when I was trying to travel in a
Discovery from Tuzla, north of Sarajevo, to Medugorje, near the coast; a
distance of roughly 300-400 Km.  Well the emphasis was truly on the roughly.
It took us 20 hours to plough our way through the metre of snow that fell
that day.  Despite living in Canada, including eight years in the Arctic,
I've never seen winter driving conditions as bad as they were on that trip.

The worst bit was trying to get over the mountain after Zenica to join the
main road, in fact the only road, that links Sarajevo and the coast.  The
mountain road is called the PacMan route for some odd reason and it's a
hellish ride in any snowfall but beyond description in a one metre blizzard.

It was made all the worse by the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of stuck and
abandoned trucks and other vehicles up one side of the mountain and down the
other.  But that Discovery Tdi simply chugged its way through it all and
somehow kept us from plunging over the edge into some bottomless ravine.

I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting
stuck.  With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily charge
off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any
vehicle blocking the way.  Many times the snow was rolling up over the
bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on.

We passed a number of Defenders that weren't doing so well but to be fair to
them they were the armored type and the extra weight, about another tonne
and a half I believe, severely hampered them.

Those armored Def's are true pigs.  I drove one in Sarajevo for a bit and it
was like trying to pilot a submarine on wheels.  All the armored plate puts
a tremendous imbalance into the suspension and even though they're equipped
with stronger springs and shocks they drive more like a boulder crashing
down a mountainside than anything resembling a vehicle.  And then there's
the near total lack of visibility.  The windscreen and the side windows are
much smaller than normal so it's a bit like looking through the driving slit
of a tank.  The glass is bullet proof as well but it's also coated with a
sheet of some sort of plastic that flares any light, such as headlights,
into a blooming cloud of rainbow col ours.  I believe that people with
severe cataracts would recognize the effect.

But there are lots of more stock Defenders roaring around Croatia and
Bosnia-Herzegovina as well as vast numbers of new Discovery's owned by the
United Nations.  The UN Disco's are a bit of a scandal in the Croatian
capital of Zagreb where they don't get much use beyond running around the
city or trips out to the airport.  In fact there are a couple of dozen new
Disco's with every kind of accessory that are only used at the airport by
the UN and Zagreb doesn't get much snow, not to mention that the roads are
BMW smooth.

I didn't see too many "salvageable" wrecks lying around other than in Tuzla
where there is this really nice clump of six S111's sitting in a junkyard
right in the city centre. All but two are sitting on their rubber and
although I couldn't get closer than 30 metres they appear pretty intact,
right down to wipers and spare wheel fittings on the bonnets.

I would think that given the number of trucking outfits now running into
places like Tuzla from other parts of Europe, and the total lack of any back
haul cargo, it might be worthwhile for someone in say Britain to cut a deal
with the junkyard and have a trucker haul them out for restoration.

But that Discovery -- what a nice machine.  

			Rick Grant

rgrant@synapse.net			1959, 88" SII
Ottawa, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 03:46:03 +0100
From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt)
Subject: Range Rover lift/springs

Yesterday Dee Brown asks about a proper spring, to give the Range a lift of
2". I just received four springs from EIBACH. I think the best you can get
in germany. They lift the vehicle nearly 2"(5cm). As I am also looking for
shockabsorbers, I even prefer Bilstein, because the Bilstein kit is made to
fit the Eibach springs. The parts number ot the shocks are: Front B46-0243  
rear: B46-0253. The steering dampers number (strongly recommended): B36-0245.

Ciao Kurt

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:12:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Whitworth - Info.

BA is short for British Association according to my father-in-law
engineering manual.

BA threads:
BA    Bolt diam.    Pitch         Head
6  2.8mm 0.110in  0.53mm 0.020in  0.193in   
4  3.6mm 0.142in  0.66mm 0.026in  0.248in
2  4.7mm 0.185in  0.81mm 0.031in  0.324in
0  6.0mm 0.236in  1.00mm 0.039in  0.412in
Head size is hex across flats and round head diameter
Above from B.S. 93:1919 and B.S. 57:1920
Note that for the bolt diameter and thread pitch the primary dimension is
metric. And that was 75 years ago.

BS and Whitworth hex sizes
BS   Whitworth   Hex AF
3/16   1/8        .340
1/4    3/16       .445
5/16   1/4        .525
3/8    5/16       .600
7/16   3/8        .710
1/2    7/16       .820
9/16   1/2        .920
5/8    9/16      1.010
11/16  5/8       1.100
3/4    11/16     1.200
7/8    3/4       1.300
I can
to Mr. Whitworth. I believe that the threads are very different from the more
usual Unified & SAE, with different thread pitches. The Series One Club
offers a Whitworth rethreading tool for straightening bolt threads.

RN & AB among others carry Whitworth/BS tools
Snap-On also has Whitworth sockets, but not wrenches

Hope the above is of help.
David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:12 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Lugnuts

Robin wrote:

>Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has he 
>been a bit shy about telling you all about it?....

Dixon, old chap, this is a truly *major award*.  Do tell!!!  Normally, you 
have to do something creative, like instantly create a new rear garage 
entrance or road-race angle grinders.  Enquiring minds want to know....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 19:54:02 -0800
From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Re: wrenches

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>    Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody
>else has seen or has these???   Regards   Steve Bradke  WA2GMC  72 s lll 88
 
I believe these are very (suspisciuously?) like the "surface drive" sockets used
by the auto manufacturers on assembly lines. They will engage and torque a
fastner while the tool is contiuously spinning. They are a series of round 
"points". 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:06 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Breaking up is hard to do...

WRT this thread on broken axles, all three of mine have also been at slow 
(or no) speed in the city.  Curiously, in each instance, I was also wearing 
a three piece suit....

Anyway, two were pulling away from the parking place in front of my 
apartment in those days, and the other was in rush hour (creeping) traffic. 
Of course, I had the coveralls and spares in the back, though I never had 
the luck for them to break at the outer flange...and when they broke, they 
would always fracture and enlarge necessitating a complete diff disassembly.

If one is prone to breaking axles, a nifty trick is to machine a groove near 
the outer splines just a shade smaller than the inner splines.  That way, 
it'll break out where you can grab out the broken stub with pliers and slap 
in  new one.  BTW, broken (long) axles sharpened slightly (has anyone ever 
broken the short side??)  make good, no-cost ground anchors, especially if 
you weld a little ring onto one end so you can link 'em.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:11:50 -0500
Subject: Disco head lamp levelling

I have seen two references to head lamp levelling in Discos. Both
were probably for U.K. cars. There seems to be a switch and motors
involved. What is it? 

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" <A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za>
Date:          Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:23:40 GMT+200
Subject:       Re: clutch & clunk (was: re:The Land Rover Own...)

> > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out 
> > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> the theory.
> I don't know if the sound is ok, but at least it's common

It is the Ball joint connecting the rear axle to the body on the 
A-frame. Hope this makes sense, I don't know all the technical
terms. It can be tested by inserting a crowbar and see if it moves.

Replace it and enyou the new !!! ride

Greetings

Gawie. 
Gawie van Blerk
---------------------------------------------------------------
Internet : A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za (work)
         : gawie@pixie.co.za (home)
URL      : http://www.pix.za/bloemfontein/gawie.html
Tel      : 27+51+404-2421
---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 51 lines 2087 [forwarded 157 whitespace 482]
 Output: lines 1665 [content 985  forwarded 107 (cut  50) whitespace 462]

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:50:26 -0500
Subject: Slick 50

>Hi chaps, has anyone ever treated a landie with that slick 50 gearbox
treatment
>I was thinking of doing both the disco and my series 2a.

Slick 50 and similar products are nothing more than regular or synthetic
50-rated engine oil (including standard additives) with PTFE (Teflon TM)
added.  PTFE is the common abbreviation used for Polytetrafloeraethylene,
more commonly known by the trade name "Teflon," that is a registered
trademark of the DuPont Chemical Corporation. Among the oil additives
containing PTFE are: Slick 50, Liquid Ring, Lubrilon, Microlon, Matrix,
Petrolon (same company as Slick 50), QMl, and T-Plus (K-Mart brand) there are
probably many more names in use on many more products using PTFE. 

One of the most damning testimonials against these products originally came
from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the
patents and trademarks for Teflon. In a statement issued about ten years ago,
DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said,
"Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for
internal combustion engines."  After a flurry of lawsuits from oil additive
makers, claiming DuPont could not prove that PTFE was harmful to engines,
DuPont was forced to once again begin selling their PTFE to the additive
producers. The additive makers like to claim this is some kind of "proof”
that their products work, when it is nothing more than proof that the
American legal ethic of "innocent until proven guilty" is still alive and
well. The decision against DuPont involved what is called "restraint of
trade." You can't refuse to sell a product to someone just because there is a
possibility they might use it for a purpose other than what you intended it
for.

The problem with putting PTFE in your oil, as explained by several industry
experts, is that PTFE is a solid. The additive makers claim this solid
"coats" the moving parts in an engine. This is not possible, Teflon can not
bond to moving engine parts at the normal operating temp. of 180 degrees or
so.  Such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil
passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and
friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build
up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction.

Tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research
Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact
we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen
detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and
act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping,
it is actually depriving parts of lubricant."

The best way to improve lubrication in the engine and the gearbox is to buy a
top quality  synthetic oil from a reputable company.

-Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: more on gearbox oils
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 14:59:09 GMT

Dear all, I have got back some info on treatments to gearbox oils etc, thansk
for all the info, however, i am sure when i read the haynes manual at home last
night, it said even the manual gearbox uses automatic transmission fluid. now
i hope i have read that wrong but i am sure thats what it said. anyone know
for sure.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 07:02:50 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Whit

At 16:36 21.12.95 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Or a Yorkshire Slide Rule.
>Mike Rooth
In German these are called "Englaender" (Englishmen).  Now I know why.

Prost!
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 4:48:21 -30000
From: <MAILER-DAEMON@usaid.gov>
Subject: Undeliverable Message

Cc:            
Subject:       The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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	  Contents:
  1 MAILER-DAEMON@usaid.gov Thu Dec 21 04:32  636/27195 Undeliverable Message
  2 danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk Thu Dec 21 04:39   25/1210  Gearbox treatments.
  3 gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 06:43   24/1277  Metrinch spanners
  4 nataraja@cig.mot.com Thu Dec 21 06:57   77/4334  Re: 'Cappings' and rivet 
  5 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 07:19   35/1170  Re: Handbrake Drums
  6 steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Thu Dec 21 07:44   28/1335  Power, power, power
  7 hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:12   66/3450  Solid Rivets
  8 hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:16   25/1339  Rancho Sale - Std vs HD??
  9 dbobeck@ushmm.org  Thu Dec 21 08:19   28/1273  Re: Power, power, power
 10 STUARTW@po1.net.cho.ge.com Thu Dec 21 08:24   37/1784  News from the front lines
 11 oldhaven@biddeford.com Thu Dec 21 08:52   22/1478  snow
 12 jcwhite3@well.com  Thu Dec 21 08:59   27/1213  Re: Disco antenna replace
 13 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Thu Dec 21 09:12   31/1633  Trans leaks like a sieve 
 14 Prasad@ba-iplaw.com Thu Dec 21 09:25   24/1142  Winter in a Range Rover
 15 Harincar@mooregs.com Thu Dec 21 09:29   39/1598  re: Cappings and Galvaniz
 16 bradt@array.com    Thu Dec 21 09:33   23/1146  disco CD changer
 17 Harincar@mooregs.com Thu Dec 21 09:41   30/1211  Re: Freewheel Insecurity
 18 donald@spl.co.za   Thu Dec 21 09:59   29/1187  Re: Whit
 19 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 10:06   26/1229  Re: Trans leaks like a si
 20 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 10:31   39/1797  re: Cappings and Galvaniz
 21 GElam30092@aol.com Thu Dec 21 10:41   30/1398  Phoenix
 22 ecrover@midcoast.com Thu Dec 21 10:47   30/1527  Series I
 23 cjett@voicenet.com Thu Dec 21 10:52   30/1490  Wading the Disco
 24 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 12:04   28/1130  Re: Freewheel Insecurity
 25 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Dec 21 12:05   29/1051  Re: Whit
 26 Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com Thu Dec 21 12:17   66/3089  Off road contest d90 v di
 27 rlarson@lsil.com   Thu Dec 21 12:38   57/2863  Re: Purchasing dilemma
 28 twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 21 12:46   42/1809  Re: Purchasing dilemma
 29 twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 21 13:09   39/1775  Re: WHEELS & TIRES
 30 TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Thu Dec 21 13:36   42/1720  Re: Trans leaks like a si
 31 oldhaven@biddeford.com Thu Dec 21 13:52   86/4958  Re: snow
 32 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Thu Dec 21 13:53   34/2031  Wrenches
 33 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Thu Dec 21 13:59   38/2009  re:D90 v.s. Disco
 34 burns@cisco.com    Thu Dec 21 14:06   64/2527  Re: Purchasing dilemma
 35 ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us Thu Dec 21 15:46   26/1270  Disco v. RR classic
 36 Sanna@aol.com      Thu Dec 21 15:53   37/1994  Re: Winter in a Range Rov
 37 Sanna@aol.com      Thu Dec 21 15:55   17/967   Re: Winter in a Range Rov
 38 ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us Thu Dec 21 16:02   26/1622  Consumer Reports hits Dis
 39 a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Dec 21 17:01   50/2803  RE: Consumer Reports hits
 40 ruwst+@pitt.edu    Thu Dec 21 17:31   29/1533  1970 light wht for sale i
 41 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Thu Dec 21 18:44   70/3356  Re: 'Cappings' and rivet 
 42 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Thu Dec 21 18:56   30/1445  RE: Consumer Reports hits
 43 rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net Thu Dec 21 20:13   35/1739  Re: Winter in a Range Rov
 44 dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca Thu Dec 21 21:31   24/1459  Re: Gearbox treatments.
 45 ASFCO@aol.com      Thu Dec 21 22:58   28/1009  Re:  Lightweight for sale
 46 jpappa01@interserv.com Thu Dec 21 23:36   51/2524  Re: 	A Good Wish
 47 lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au Fri Dec 22 00:35   21/1098  broken half shafts

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 4:33:05 -30000
From: <MAILER-DAEMON@usaid.gov>
Subject: Undeliverable Message

Cc:            
Subject:       The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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	  Contents:
  1 70472.1130@compuserve.com Sat Dec 16 10:02   43/2589  Plushmobiles
  2 LAW142@aol.com     Sat Dec 16 10:58   23/1179  SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA
  3 johnliu@earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 11:21   22/1324  Rangies With US V-8?
  4 ecrover@midcoast.com Sat Dec 16 11:30   27/1353  VIN/Chassis numbers
  5 johnliu@earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 11:39   47/2326  Re: Plushmobiles
  6 jcwhite3@well.com  Sat Dec 16 12:31   44/1939  Re: Disco and Lucas
  7 lopezba@atnet.at   Sat Dec 16 14:27   73/4096  Hardtop insulation
  8 KKelly6788@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:07   28/1463  Re: Where are the diesels
  9 ASFCO@aol.com      Sat Dec 16 15:49   18/1117  Vehicle ID Number system
 10 ericz@cloud9.net   Sat Dec 16 16:12   42/2291  Yuppies and other sources
 11 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Sat Dec 16 18:10   24/1378  Trailers
 12 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Sat Dec 16 18:23   33/1668  To those who are about to
 13 jcwhite3@well.com  Sat Dec 16 19:36   50/2251  RE: Popular Science
 14 jcwhite3@well.com  Sat Dec 16 19:36   38/1842  RE: wading of plushmobile
 15 jcwhite3@well.com  Sat Dec 16 19:35  106/4472  Re: Popular Science
 16 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Sat Dec 16 19:50   33/1639  Nice lightweight for sale
 17 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Sat Dec 16 19:52   44/1871  Land Rover Toy News
 18 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Sat Dec 16 20:12   41/2603  Re: Where are the diesels
 19 burns@cisco.com    Sat Dec 16 20:21   69/4037  Disco's
 20 cs@crl.com         Sat Dec 16 21:00   38/1999  Re: Hardtop Insulation

------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 95 09:58:57 EST
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Plushmobiles

In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an
extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort.
I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. In fact some of the yuppies in my club are
the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I
suggest she get the facts. Yes they are diesels and that is one reason why they
have the incredible wading abilities ( no electronics) As for the support they
get on the event a competitor in the 94 event, Mac Barber, told me that aside
from changing tires and cleaning fuel filters (very important on a diesel) the
vehicle just kept going. He liked it so much that when he got back he bought one
for himself. Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental
insurance. I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job
crossing Borneo that a Disco.
Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When
finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love to
have a coil-sprung, galvanized chassis 88 with a smuggled in Tdi or Isuzu 2.8
complete with snorkle so I could show some of the Georgia rednecks that 10 litre
V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite.
Obvioulsy I would take this vehicle some places the Disco does not go. Not
because I don't think it would make it but becuase I have to drive it to work
the next day. The disco has already surprised many of the rural residents of the
GA hills with its ablility-

Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't
need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it
was built.

							Mark Ritter
							94 Disco
							Yes, I do wave!

------------------------------

From: LAW142@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:57:18 -0500
Subject: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8

I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without
having to pay a fortune.   I'm also looking for a US based company that can
build/make a roll cage for my SIIA SW with safari roof that will still allow
me to put on a roof rack with rear  ladder.
  Can any one help me?

Karl Young II
69 Land Rover Series IIA  109
Station Wagon w/Safari Roof, RHD
Austin, Texas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:13:52 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Rangies With US V-8?

In LRO Magazine I occasionally see blurbs about Rangies 
with Chevrolet 350 V-8 conversions, and I've heard of a 
Ford V-8 conversion too.  Does anyone know anyone about 
these -- who makes the kits, whether they retain the RR 
transmission, etc.?  Just curious.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:30:13 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: VIN/Chassis numbers

Dear all,
        Another one for you. Just got some photos of a client's Rover we
are going to do some work on. The weird thing, maybe not weird, but
something I haven't seen is, the tag with the numbers on it is all in
French. Is this what the tags looked like when sent to a French market? The
Chassis number checks out to be LHD, export 109, as does the Rover, but I
have not seen a French tag before.
Any thoughts?

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plushmobiles

At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote:
>extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I
>suggest she get the facts.

<discussion of Disco and Series snipped>

>Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't
>need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or
when it
>was built.

Look, everyone, let's understand that the comments  about "plushmobile" and
the like are 
meant to be taken in jest.  Don't take them seriously and get offended.
Think of them
as being accompanied by a dig in the ribs and a hearty chortle.

Clearly people can like both Series vehicles and Rangies/Discos --  indeed,
many on this
list own both (and I aspire to.)  But the Series drivers can poke fun at the
yuppie Disco
drivers wailing over espresso spills and noisy carphones, and the Disco
owners can laugh 
at the Series owners wearing earplugs, freezing in the winter, and broiling
in the summer.
(There, now I've offended everyone.)  It's all in fun, folks.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:31:41 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas

Actually the '95s have a several second delay as well.  Mine hasn't had the
buzzing that Bob talks about though.  Bob's radio may just be getting a
broadcast from Radio Free Lucas.

Cheers!
John

At 08:08 15.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Gerald
>g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:27:52 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Hardtop insulation

David Bobeck wrote:
>>Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the 
>>tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)]
>handy with a needle and thread.
>Cheers
>Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck
Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock in the UK, 
although I do not have their latest ad here at the moment.  I seem to 
remember some name like PG Absorbent Headliner, so it may not be the 
original LR product but something made by Procter & Gamble.  As far as I 
know these headliners are on back order though, and you may have to wait 
until the beginning of April. They also advertise the Absorbent Headliner 
Valve Set which consists of four small valves for the four corners of the 
roof.  These will allow the moisture that is channeled to them by special 
ducts in the headliner to trickle down on the outside of the LR without 
letting water in.  Unfortunately they are not marked really well and 
installation is by trial and error unless you have very keen eyesight, since 
the only difference between the inside and the outside is the tiny letters 
FO for the inside and OL for the outside.  I have not been able to find out 
what the letters stand for.  Their fax number is (UK) 1543 505 408.
For a drier drive
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:06:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Where are the diesels?

I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? 

I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood
at times) during the Camel Trophy trials.  I asked a couple of the guys from
LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US.  They all said that there
was no plans as of now to import the Tdi.

If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter
to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a
few letters.  Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the
letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change
their mind.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:49:06 -0500
Subject: Vehicle ID Number system

does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ??
                                        the number I have has  a total of 9
digits  and is configured as such  ...                         2 numbers ,
one letter,  6 numbers. Anybody have a clue??
                                        thanks      Steve Bradke
                      

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:11:32 -0800
Subject: Yuppies and other sources of unrest.

Please, don't go crazy about the joking that goes around this list regarding 
Series Rovers versus the newer models.  Most everything said here is in jest, or 
at very least in envy.

What really counts is whether or not you appreciate the vehicle for what it is: 
the worlds toughest and most versatile off-road vehicle.  Of course, there is an 
abundance of gadgetry on the newer vehicles (disco, RR, even Defender) but look 
at the market.  We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in 
being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other 
groups.  As a result, the new models have the conveniences and niceties that 
such a market requires.  This is not to say that people who buy newer rovers are 
in someway inferior.  For the most part, people buying the newer rovers are just 
different people from series owners.

All rover owners have the responsibility to make each other feel welcome based 
on the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle they're sitting in. There is a 
series owner in every disco owner and vice-versa.

OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing 
has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the 
rover community.

Eric  
(a confirmed series owner who still waves to discos and RRs in hope)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:42
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Trailers

I still can't get over the guy who put 15 sheets of 3/4 particle board on th 
e rack. One good right hander and...

I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a 
utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story 
would be appreciated.
Also wonder about the apparently PTO-driven trailer pictured in the 
literature. Anybody have one of these? what a hoot!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:25:24
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: To those who are about to die,we salute you..

Parts that is. Thanks to all for their advice during the recent transmission 
crisis. (RN, expect a call from my mechanic!) Much to our chagrin, the 
gearbox expired. It is now on the table experiencing open heart surgery 
($$$$) On the bright side, it will be ready for another 30 years of faithful 
service. 
"All my troubles are Rover"

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:38 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: Popular Science

And you know what else, Bob?  They tell me the room service on the Camel Trophy
is terrible.  The Connaught Hotel has nothing to worry about.

Sniff.
John

At 10:36 15.12.95 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>From: 	John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU
>with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:46 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles

At 21:59 15.12.95 -0600, Soren Vels Christensen wrote:

>I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush
>pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all
>that.

These are the most minor of complaints, true, but Land Rover claims to build 
top quality vehicles in every regard.  The off-road capabilities of 
Discoveries are only part of the equation.  Land Rover has also seen fit to 
appoint NAS Discos with power steering, power anti-lock brakes, air 
conditioning, stereos with cassette players (optionally also CD players), 
leather upholstery, electric sunroofs (optionally), and carpeting.  If Land 
Rover can't get these items right, then it shouldn't be in the plush 
business.  

As the saying goes, "A job worth doing is worth doing well."

Cheers!
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:28 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

Camel Trophy Discoveries are diesel so they aren't as electronically fragile 
as the V8i in NAS Discos, but I would venture to guess that an added feature 
of the diesel is that it has almost twice the gas mileage of the V8i.  
That's got to be especially important on a 1,000 mile trek where the nearest 
gas station is who knows where.

Let's talk about plushness and its darker yuppie submessage, shall we?  A 
Discovery can't clear the same rocks that a Series can.  There are things I 
can do when I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans ("real" peoples clothes) that I 
can't do when I'm wearing a suit (yuppie garb) because suits are more 
confining.  Nevertheless it's still my god-like physique in both.  Many LROs 
have expounded on the off-road capabilities of the Discovery.  It is a Land 
Rover from its logo to Lucas electricals.

Oh yes, and no one forced me to buy a Discovery.  I bought one of my own 
free will.  Does that make me a yuppie?  While I hate all that the label 
implies (selfishness. Conspicuous, graceless consumption.  Snobbery), I will 
leave it to those who know me to decide whether or not the label fits.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery

At 10:19 15.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" 
>writes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was 
>because Rover insisted that they use them.  Discos are cheaper for them to
build
>& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos.  They probably started 
>supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that 
>plushmobiles can go offroad too.  With the kind of support the Camel Trophy
cars
>get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus.  Mind you it may be a year or 
>more slower making it to the finish than the Discos.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they 
>still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain.  Mind
you I'm
>not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover
that
>doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without  losing 
>the ground effects baffeling and that low side step.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)]
>don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice.
>TeriAnn
>twakeman@apple.com

------------------------------

Subject: Nice lightweight for sale
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:31:04 -0500

I just received my January 96 Land Rover World. in the classifieds at the 
back on page 125 is one of the nicest s3 lightweights in good condition 
for sale that I have seen for a while.

The vehcile is complete with cam nets et al and the guy only wants POUNDS 
UK 2950!! I'll be checking my lottery ticket in the am ....

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rover Toy News
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:24:02 -0500

Just when you thought it was safe......

Matchbox Collectibles have come out with a new version of their series 
one fire truck with trailer in the "Works Fire Service" livery.

The new version is diffreent only by the following:-
Decal gone from door,
Wheels now chromed intsead of red

If you ask me it does not look as good as the original but I"ll be buying 
it anyway....

I found another one of the NASA 90 and trailers with the blue wheels 
today, again in a ZEllers store.

If you would like to be included in a toy / model digest email me direct.

Rgds
Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? 
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:14:28 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199512162007.PAA15069@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? 
> I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US.  They all said that there
> was no plans as of now to import the Tdi.

	I've heard 2 conflicting rumors about the 300 Tdi.  The first is that
LRNA got it past US DOT/EPA, but doesn't think that there is a market in the
US for diesel engines.  The other is that the engine is designed to meet 
European specs and that so far LRNA has been unable to get the engine through
California Smog tests.  Since, according to rumor, there is a huge EPA fine
to bring a vehicle that cannot pass emmissions for all 50 states, LRNA gave up.
I have yet to find anyone who can give a definite answer.

Ben 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Disco's
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 17:21:47 PST

Had a chance last weekend to brake one of those new yuppie mobiles.
I happen to be out on the left coast when my good friend Raj picked up
his new disco. Green thing with leather seats, cd changer, dual sunroofs,
built in expressio machine ect.. ect.
The first plan was to go to holister hills and see the camel trials.
But it seems that LRNA took over the park. All we could do is sit
outside the gate and form a parade with some other Rover owners.

After giving up on the trails, we headed south to another orv place
Clear creek. We did manage to get the disco temporarly detained on a hill.
I was explaining the benifits of having a shovel and other like tools
as we ascended this steep hill. We got to a ripply section and Raj decided
to slow down. With the loss of momentium we coulds not progress any futher
up the hill. I explained to Raj that we needed to back down the hill. As
there was a 4 foot deep rut on the passenger side I told him I would 
watch my side. Sticking my head out the window I was announcing the
distance in feet between the rut and his new truck. 
We started at three feet from the rut, and proceded to back down the hill
We then were 4 feet, and 5 feet from the rut when Raj slamed on the brakes
and announced that he backed into a tree.
So I got out and looked. The tree was the least of our worries.
It seems that he was following a rut on the drivers side, and right after the
"bush" it got progressively deeper. At we sat, the rear diff was scraping the
ground. I had Raj get out of the car to take a look, and he promply started 
sliding down the hill. (it was almost too steep to walk up)
I tried letting some air out of the tires for better traction, but I still
could not get enought to drive up the hill and take a better cut.
Well out came the jack, jacked up the rear tire. Dragged trees, rocks,small
kids etc.. and filled in the rut. After chipping at the sides of the ruts
with the jack handles, I think Raj realized the benifits of a shovel.
After about 9 cu yards of fill I was able to back the yuppie mobile down
the hill. Raj then explored some of the other trails in the park. A lot of
trails had overhanging bush, and would scrape the Disco. I kept muttering
that this was a Land-Rover polish job, but know one caught the humor....
Needless to say, when we were done there were a number of minor (major)
scratches in the clear coat. Raj was quite upset about this kept muttering
about ruining the truck with less than 500 mile on it. But actually I think
he told his fiance that this was going to be her truck, and was afraid
to face the wrath of the little women. At dinner I explained that if
the Land-Rover polish did not suit him, you could buff out the clear coat and
it would look like new.
He clearly was an unbeliver, but his up comming marriage gave him little choice.Some how Sunday he found some one with a buffer who polished the Disco,
allowing him to visit his fiance safely sunday nite.
Talking to him latter that week, he said he was heading down to holister hills
to do some more offroading. I replied "great, a few more times and you won,t
even have ot bother with the wax and polish jobs...."

Russ Burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90
One of those damn yuppie types (mistakes can happen to the best of us)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:59:21 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Hardtop Insulation

 Peter Hirsh <lopezba@atnet.at> writes:

:Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock...  They also
:advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small
:valves for the four corners of the roof.  These will allow the moisture
:that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle
:down on the outside of the LR without letting water in.  Unfortunately
:they are not marked really well... the only difference between the inside
:and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the
:outside.  I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for.

 Let's see, FO and OL??  FO, OL??  FO-OL?  Could it be FOOL!  :)

 Holiday Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 19 lines 843 [forwarded 169 whitespace 189]
 Output: lines 652 [content 473  forwarded 49 (cut  120) whitespace 153]

Subject: Gearbox treatments.
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 9:37:53 GMT

Hi chaps, has anyone ever treated a landie with that slick 50 gearbox treatment
i was thinking of doing both the disco and my series 2a.

should i rush to do it or should i run away from it ? any thoughts gratefully
received.

cheers danny

p.s. have a great xmas everyone.

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Metrinch spanners
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:40:32 +0000 (GMT)

I have a set of Metrinch spanners which work very well. They move the
nut from its flats, not the corners, so they will undo rounded off nuts
easily.

-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:57:43 -0600 (CST)

>------------------------------
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be 
>done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal:

Ah.  I don't know what I was thinking.  I forgot that the simplicity
and practicality of the LR also included body panels. :-)

>Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working.
>Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the 
>tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. 

I don't have much experience w/ rivets, so please bear with me while I
ask some more basic questions...

Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same?  I've
only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the
center.  How are the round head ones different to replace?  I think
the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer
the original look of them.

>I don't know about your area but I  take small stuff for galvanizing to a 
>place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the 
>size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do 
>as a side job.

I thought I'd do that while I'm here in the UK where replacement parts
are cheaper and plentiful.  (I also need to replace the left rear end
panel due to a good sized dent/hole from the PO.)

>Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. 

I agree.  I'd rather have mine rusty and original than painted and
tacky.  I was being only half serious.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel Natarajan                            Phone:  +44-1793-566-323
Motorola Inc.                            Fax:    +44-1793-430-987
Email:  nataraja@cig.mot.com             Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:18:06 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Handbrake Drums

>.
>On another note I spotted a familiar name (and email address) in the
>LRO international magazine. One of the 'Reader's Tips' on the
>'Drivetrain' page. A handy tip from our very own M.J.Rooth. Fame at
>last Mike!!

I'll come round with the hat later.......<grin>

Merry Christmas All

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:42:25 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Power, power, power

I want more power.  Let's see, I've got everybody to put in carriage
returns.  What next?
  
Mmmmm.  I know!
  
>From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink.
  
Thank you, Sgt.  A.Nally-Retentive  LRO Submissions Police
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:12:57 EST
Subject: Solid Rivets

I have replaced several original solid rivets on my Series 
II with genuine L-R solid rivets, available (at lest a 
couple of years ago) from Rovers North.  The correct way to 
remove the old ones, as any aviation metalsmith will tell 
you, is to drill them out from the head side.  Drill size 
should match the rivet shank (i.e., same as the hole in the 
sheet metal the rivet goes through).  Before putting drill 
bit to rivet head, centerpunch the head to create an easy 
starting point.  Swivel the drill like a waist gunner in a 
B-17 if necessary to keep the tip of the bit headed down the 
centerline of the rivet as go drill.  In theory, drill only 
far enough to penetrate completely through the head.  If 
you've done it right, the head will pop off and ride up the 
drill bit.  Then use a drift to punch out the remainder.  If 
you insist on chiseling off the head, drill the head as 
described above first, and it'll pop off really easily.

Since Series L-R hole tolerances are not what they are in 
Phantoms or even P-47s, you may need to drill all the way 
through, because the shank expanded to fill an oversize or 
out-of-round hole.  

Reinstalling new solid rivets is not hard if you have the 
feel of using a pneumatic gun.  Try to get one with a 
pressure adjustment.  If you're not used to it, it can get 
away from you quite easily and you could take out an unlucky 
bystander.  They can be hammered by hand, but once you've 
gotten the hang of the air tool, it's too much fun to go 
back to primitive methods.  Might be worth a trip to the 
local general aviation field to talk to an airframe 
mechanic.  

Drilling from the tail side can be messy because rivets 
frequently lose their symmetry about the centerline on that 
end, tending to lean over to one side on a regular basis.  
After all, they were not installed in Solihull by guys who 
were building Vulcan bombers during the weekend.

I've long contemplated separating the galvanized gutter from 
the aluminum sheet roof panel of my 109, as part of the 
perpetual restoration, for regalvanizing.  I assume the 
reattachment will be with aluminum (solid) aircraft rivets 
rather than the original (steel?) hollow-tails.  There are 
so many of them, strength is not a worry, even for 
gutter-mounted expedition racks.

Regards,
Hank "We don't need no stinkin' Cherry-Max" Lapa

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:16:24 EST
Subject: Rancho Sale - Std vs HD???

I'm about convinced to run out and get four for my 109.  
Anyone with wisdom regarding standard vs heavy-duty?  A long 
time ago, a voice at RN told me that HD were overkill, 
probably referring to "Genuine."

Thanks in advance,
Hank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:25:14 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Power, power, power

Steve Reddock wants control...

  
>From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink.

REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM 

PS. This message has nothing to do with changing brake parts...

Dave"Here's Johnny"Bobeck

------------------------------

From: Stuart Williams <STUARTW@po1.net.cho.ge.com>
Subject: News from the front lines ...
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:24:00 EST

Thanks to Rick Grant for an interesting look into Bosnian public 
transportation in his posting from Wed, 20 Dec 1995.  Not bad performance 
for a plushmobile, eh?

> I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting
> stuck.  With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily 
charge
> off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any
> vehicle blocking the way.  Many times the snow was rolling up over the
> bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on.

Derogatory bits about armored Defender performance in similar conditions 
deleted ... ;^)

Stuart Williams
'95 Discovery V8i
'85 LandCruiser 

------------------------------

Subject: snow
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:51:52 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I have just now come in from plowing 20 inches of snow, which my 65 88 seems
to enjoy as much as I do.  I was thinking that those of you on the East
coast who have sore backs from shoveling are missing a bet by not fitting a
plow.  You too can look forward to snowstorms... though I've yet to see a RR
or Disco pushing snow.  Oh yeah, by the way, I just happen to have a Fisher
plow rig to spare..ahem..  Anyhow, you'll have to excuse me as I'm going out
to fire up the sauna.  These Maine winters are hell!  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 06:00:11 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement

At 15:07 20.12.95 EST, Tom Des Jardins wrote:

>(Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6
>disc yuppie changer...

You mean yuppies aren't at least housebroken?  Figures.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 21 Dec 95  8:21:29 EST
Subject: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where?

THis is beginning to frustrate me.

The transmission on my 109 leaks a pint of oil every week or two. Most of it is 
coating the crossmember under the bellhousing, but there's nothing coming from 
the wading plug hole - i plugged it then removed the plug and it's bone-dry.

I can't for the life of me figure out where it's leaking from - any suggestions 
on tracing the leak before Lotus fires me for doing an Exxon Valdez in the 
parking garage?
More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast?

      Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:33:49 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject:  Winter in a Range Rover

I am looking forward to spending my first winter in New England with my
'90 Range Rover.  Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime,
such as starting, etc, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions for
what to do to avoid them? 

Sanjay Prasad
'90 Range Rover
Boston, Massachusetts U.S.A.
e-mail: prasad@ba-iplaw.com

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:29:34 -0600
Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing

Val wrote:

> Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint?

No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did 
that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap.

I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black (I 
donno, there is something about black spray paint that just *talks* to 
me...). OTOH, since I'm going to be taking the whole thing apart, I might as 
well have them re-galvanized, too.

My $.02

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW "Parts is 
Parts"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 07:33:44 MST
From: Brad Taylor <bradt@array.com>
Subject: disco CD changer

Is there any experiance fitting an after-market CD changer to a disco?

Is there some special magic in the Land Rover CD changer which makes it the
only option?

Brad

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:41:43 -0600
Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity

>>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton

>Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer

No! I want 'em! :-)

Tim
---
tim harincar, aka the Scavenger
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:01:11 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Donald Abbot <donald@spl.co.za>
Subject: Re: Whit

On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Wouter de Waal wrote in response to Mike:
> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four
> spanners or one shifter?

You mean a Free State micrometer?

Donald

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:03:07 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where?

How about the oil seals at front/rear of the transfer case? Oil leaks out of
the main 'box into the transfer case,then out of the transfer case back to
nature,thoughtfully rust proofing the X-member on the way.Nothing goes to
waste.Clever people at Land Rover,arent they?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:29:10 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing

>> Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint?
>No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did
>that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap.
>I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black

What I did was to use some matt grey zinc rich primer,brushed on.They
sometimes call it cold galvanisation paint.Looks quite nice,IMO.
Apart from the rusty cappings,some twerp had painted round the windshield
with *copper* coloured paint!
I did this two-three years ago,the Rover lives outside,due to the two
unfortunate circumstances of having an old wooden floored garage,and a
certain reluctance to qualify for the Lugnut Award,by being the first
bloke ever to put his Land Rover through the *floor* of a garage.(Through
the back wall is old stuff,its been done before).Anyway,the grey paint is
still OK.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:40:21 -0500
Subject: Phoenix

You wrote "Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about
Phoenix 
weather in the dead of summer?  After all, he'd have to .sig his messages
with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ..."

Bummer... today was the first day that I've put on long pants since moving
here.   :-(

BTW: 125 degrees is hot no matter how low the humidity.  The worst day  this
summer was 123!  And, the way I look at it, it's four months of hell for 8
months of bliss!  The summers also keeps everyone else from moving here too!
 And to make it worse, the off-roading is superb!  

Have a Merry Christmas!  
Gerry "only up to 62 today" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:48:00 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Series I

Dear all,
        Mark Talbot asked about Series I's. The SI grew from 80" to 86" in 1953.

        Taking off your FWHubs? Why? The hubs are a great thing that add
versatility to your Rover. Really, how many people have broken a half
shaft, on a hill, with the hubs disengaged, then at the same time had your
brakes totally fail, so you roll down and hit someone! Isn't that sort of
over thinking the possibilities.
        Fuel mileage, top speed, less wear and tear on the tires, easier
streering, on and off road versatility, listen to your fellow digest
contributors, they are giving you good advice.

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:55:44 -0500
From: "Craig R. Jett" <cjett@voicenet.com>
Subject: Wading the Disco

In response to a recent thread I posted some pictures at 
http://www.voicenet.com/~cjett/interest.html. As you will see, my 95 
Disco swam through water 3/4 of the way up the door.  Not a cough or 
any other protest from the Disco.  Also not a drop of water inside.  By 
the way, this was on a rally sponsered by Cherry Hill Imports of NJ, 
USA.  Just thought some you might be interested.

Craig Jett
95 Alpine White Discovery

I wave to everyone, every car that I pass, just so no one will feel left 
out.
I also take it off road whenever possible!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:35:25 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity

>>>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton
>>Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer
>No! I want 'em! :-)

I suppose the next best offer in this auction is when someone asks
Trevor to pay *them* to take 'em off his hands........

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:36:59 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Whit

>> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four
>> spanners or one shifter?
>You mean a Free State micrometer?

Or a Yorkshire Slide Rule.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 95 12:15:21 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Off road contest d90 v disco

     Lzeltzer asked about the off road comparison between the d90 and 
     discovery
     
     back in Sept. (or was it October) i attended the bsroa fall off road 
     meet in the Berkshire's (part of western mass) with my 
     (auto)Discovery. 2 other Discovery owners attended, a few series and a 
     swarm of d90s.
     
     As amazing as the discovery is it is not as good as NAS D90. 
     
     1: the tires (BFG) given the vehicle an inch or so extra ground 
     clearance (regular uk 90s don't have this set up therefore no 
     advantage but I hear that it is an option over there). this has to 
     help in extreme conditions but wasn't an issue (very dry conditions) 
     during the weekend. 
     
     2: shorter wheelbase on the D90. Seven inches may not sound like much 
     but it makes a bit difference in a forest. 
     
     On one particular spot when a big rock including a sharp left turn 
     needed to be negotiated, while everyone made it up ok, but the Discos 
     all clonked the rear bumper area (no damage seen) as the longer 
     wheelbase forces the rear wheel to inscribe a smaller circle while 
     turning on a disco than a 90. 
     
     3: the difference in departure angles adds to this problem. 
     
     Solution to these problems would be taking a wider turn. but it sure 
     was tight at times in the front making sure that the trees and the 
     front fender (english=wing) did not become aquainted.  
     
     Made it down with a clonk, but not before the vehicle demonstrated an 
     excellent crossaxle with a front left wheel waving in the air, the 
     rear left wheel getting awful close to the underseal with the rear 
     right waving too I am told.
     
     It sure makes for a beautiful video shot. 
     
     So the D90 is better off road make no mistake. But the Discovery is 
     extremely competent(i lost count of the times I thought I couldn't do 
     that - but did).
     
     regards
     chris browne
     95 disco (why has my rear door stopped squeaking/my stereo buzzes when 
     i turn it on/my steering wheel squeaks)
     Brit in Boston great snow around here in last couple of days 
     
      
     
      

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:37:46 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma 

The big difference seems to be clearance and attitude.  The D90 just has
a lot more clearance.  Offroad on tight trails it makes a big difference.
Have also noticed that (please, no flames, this is a generalization and
I'm know there are exceptions, but this has been holding true
most part) that Disco owners aren't nearly as willing to risk dents as 
D90 owners.  In fact most of the D90 owners I know have dings and dents
due to off road driving.  

It is a matter of degree.  I'd guess that Discos will handle 95%+ of off
road trails with the same degree of aplomb that D90s do.  On the other
hand, "serious" offroaders tend to seek out those 5% of the trails other 
vehicles have trouble with and spend  their time there.   One
approach you might consider would be to buy a Disco and drive it offroad.
Where you find deficiencies in its performace you can correct them with
aftermarket accessories.  You'll still have the comfort of a Discovery but
with the right stuff you'll end up better off road then a stock D90.   
(AirLockers, bigger more aggressive tires, skid plates, winch, side sill 
protection would be on the top of my list.  After, basic safety stuff of
course.)  

The downside is that the window of opportunity on obtaining D90s is small.
If money is no object I'd buy the D90 SW and see how it works.  If you don't
like it you can sell it (to me :) ) and pick up a Disco.  The reverse is
likely to be impossible or significantly harder.  

In general I've found driver attitude and skill more important than the LR 
being driven.  Tires and lockers seem to make the most difference after
that.  Clearance then becomes key.  The D90 has much more aggressive tires
and much more clearance then the Disco.  The mystery as to why neither 
has factory lockers may never be solved.......    

-Rick    

 

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:44:45 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma 

In message <199512201329.IAA05318@butler.uk.stratus.com> Lee Zeltzer writes:
;
; 
> Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a 
> better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? 
;
I think which car is better depends upon where you drive.  Both cars will 
probably do just as well in open offroading.  The Disco will give you better 
misquito protection and will allow yo to drive in air conditioned comfort out of
the dust while listening to your favorate CDs.

But if you head out to places where the mud is deep or your crawling over rocks,
the D90 is the best of the breed hands down.

According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders 
they sell.  Mostly men purchase Discos.  But I will have to admit a lot more men
then women own series Land Rovers.

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:17:10 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES

In message <199512200215.VAA04486@butler.uk.stratus.com>  writes:
 
> HEY Y'ALL,
> Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco
>; fitting a series Rover.Well I talked to my local Land Rover dealer (Jax FL)
> and
> he said that all of the Discos come with aluminum wheels.Does anyone know of
; other dealers that would be willing to ship some.Also what size tires are
> people 
; using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16.

Last time I looked the spare wheel was steel.  Go back to your local Disco
dealer and ask to look at a spare tyre (ie have them take the cover off the 
spare on one of the cars).

I have a set of these 7 inch wide black wheels on my 109.  They fit nicely.
I'm running 265/70/16  B F Goodrich Mud Terrains on my 109.  Fits nicely.

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:38:33 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where?

Alan,
I'd find a place that steam cleans and get it clean as possible then 
keep a close eye on it to see what gets dirty.
I've seen the drain plugs leak if the washers are totally crushed.

> More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast?

The easiest way to fix LR oil leaks is to sell it, although I 
wouldn't suggest doing that.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: snow
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:49:38 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> Date: Thursday, 21-Dec-95 09:22 AM
> From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus    \ Internet:   
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Subject: Re: snow
> What' it take to fit a plow to a Rover? I was thinking of my 109.....but
I've 
> heard that this can cause real chassis problems.
>      Info, please?
>       ajr
> To:   Ron Franklin             \ Internet:    (oldhaven@biddeford.com)

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------

	Fit up isn't too bad if you have a plow rig that was designed for a Rover
originally.  That way all the parts fit within reason, and you don't have to
be anything but hand tool proficient.  Adapting  a rig designed for a Jeep
or other small 4wd is also possible if you can cut and weld, and I've done
it, but better to trust the engineers at Fisher, and try to locate a used
Rover setup. Be sure to get all the parts, even if the PO doesn't want to do
the work to remove them from his vehicle.  The important parts are the ones
unique to the Rover, and include things you don"t normally think of like an
add-on or double pulley to drive the Hydraulics, the mounting fixture for
the Hydraulic pump, and all the parts and pieces which mount the operating
cables to the valve and the dashboard.
	If everything is there, and working, you should be able to set yourself up
for plowing in a day, assuming you've had the good sense to do this in
September, and aren't working in icewater or a snowdrift.  After the initial
installation, it takes about an hour in the fall and again in the spring to
put on or remove the pieces you will or won't need for the next 6 months(
assuming you get that much winter).  You can fit the actual plow in about
five minutes, depending on your back condition for the last little alignment
of the plow to the frame.
	Fisher plows, with which I am most familiar, come in a couple of different
varieties for LR's.  One has all the cylinders attached to the plow itself,
and the other leaves the lifting cylinder attached to the vehicle when the
plow is removed.  They both work well, as I have used both, though I  prefer
the former, since it leaves less stuff on the vehicle in the off season. 
The plow frame under the vehicle reduces ground clearance drastically, but
can be removed fairly easily for the summer, as mentioned above, along with
the drive belt for the hyd. pump.  Both of these types are designed so that
a Koenig winch can still be mounted, and I recommend some sort of winch
since you will undoubtedly bury youself in a drift several times a season.
	As for wear and tear, if you are going to plow for a living, get yourself a
big Ford, and don't worry if it destroys itself in 4 or 5 years.  I plow 4
or 500 feet of driveway from 10 to 20 times a year.  I'm not in a hurry, and
take my time and enjoy it.  The 88 I use was originally fitted with the plow
in 1965, and the man I bought it from had used it every winter for plowing. 
The original frame is still in very good shape, though I had to repair a
crack which developed, In believe, by allowing the plow frame to get loose,
allowing it to move around and stress the Rover frame.  I would definitely
not put a plow on a questionable frame because it will put a strain on it. 
Wear on the clutch, steering and suspension will be more than normal, but
what are these things for, sitting in the garage, or out getting used?  You
will need to replace your front springs with the hd type eventually, but
might as well use up the ones already on.
	I personally find the 88 handier for plowing since it will get into and out
of tighter places.  But I'm sure a 109 would do alright if you are patient
and don't have too many twists in your drive.  So, if your LR already has a
scratch or two, and you are the type who can avoid hitting any thing too big
too fast because you are not in a hurry, I'd say put on a plow and have a
good time.  
	 

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Wrenches
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:55:00 EST

Many years ago (about 30) I encountered a set of spanners from France which 
worked by driving on the face of the hex rather than the corner. These I see 
now available from Snap On in the form of their "Flank Drive". They come as 
open, box and socket versions and really are a superior method of turning 
nuts. They will even successfully remove nuts that have been abused and have 
practically no corners left. Trouble is the're so good that in the small 
sizes its very easy to shear bolts by overtightening them. The configuration 
means that they will fit a large variety of sizes not just the AF size they 
were made for. Unfortunately coming from Snap-On they are pricy but worth it 
in the long run. (what price skinned knuckles?)

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:59:41 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:D90 v.s. Disco

Hi all,

Chris Browne is right I was also at the BSROA fall event and the Down East 
Rally in Maine. D90's definitely have the advantage when the trail gets 
tight, tough, and nasty. In Maine the Disco's and Rangie's were bottoming 
out in the deep mud and rock trail, and having a time climbing this one 
steep, slippery, very rutted hill. When our turn came I was nervous after 
hearing vehicles in front of us bashing things underneath. I had just 
bought the LR in May and didn't know it's full potential yet. The D90 with 
the BFG M/T's went right up! I couldn't believe it!

I have traveled some trails where I live in western Mass. that were all 
large rocks. With careful wheel placement, the extra clearance, better 
aproach and departure angles the D90 made it easily. Truly amazing! I 
bought my D90 for just this reason I wanted the best performing off-road 
vehicle I could get my hands on. 

With that said I have to admit that when I saw where the Disco's and 
Rangie's went I was truly surprised. The D90 is a more capable off-roader 
but the difference was no where as great as I would have thought! 

Happy Holidays!

Barnett Childress
95 D90 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:06:45 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma 

I have driven both off road. If you will include a 91 R-Rover as an old disco.
I think the Disco/R-ROver with an auto is the best off-road vehicle I
have driven. 
The Auto trans makes a joke out of rock crawling.
The ability to downshift on the fly takes all the fun out of climbing hills.
The longer wheelbase seems to make hill climbing easier.
The engine braking in low low is adequate.

I will admit the 2 inches less of ground clearance will get you stuck
in the mud a little sooner, and the trailer hitch tends to drag on some
of those rock ledges, and of course you have to make a couple of cuts
to get around trees you can't run over. 

But is the same breath I will admit I would rather be driving the D-90
instead of the R-Rover. No it is not the fear of denting the poor thing
(I have a dent in every fender), but the those flat fenders are a great
place to fix lunch on, and your beer does not slide off.....

I find it interesting 5/8 of the D-90 buyers are women. Maybe that
explains why my wife is not complaining about the D-90 SW I am getting here.
She said to surprise her....
Russ Burns
91 R-ROver
94 D-90

At 09:44 AM 12/21/95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders 
>they sell.  Mostly men purchase Discos.  But I will have to admit a lot
more men
>then women own series Land Rovers.
>TeriAnn
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>TeriAnn
>twakeman@apple.com
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:45:20 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Disco v. RR classic

   On the subject of comparisons, how do those who have experienced
both off-road think the old RR compares to the Disco. 

    It seems they would be similar except for maybe approach/ departure
angles and the center diff.  Of course the old RR's smaller 205 tires
probably hinder it too.  (can you upgrade to 235 or so without problems?)

   Any thoughts?

   Still searching for MY 89 Range Rover,
     William

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:53:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover

>>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime

My '89 RR starts like a champ in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago -
still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that
temperature.  The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few
miles and the normally supple suspension seems a bit hard & brittle.

My only problem with Annabelle is the heater temp.  It's sort of like my old
Volvo's A/C.  If you're going on a trip it'll get the car comfortable, but
forget comfort on the short haul around town.  

So, here's a question for all of you out there in Range Roverland:  Is there
a thermostat swap that would cure my woes (and frozen toes)?  Will the
typical vanilla-flavored US auto store variety work in a RR or do I need
something "British"?  With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of
the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the
scale.

Oh yes, other cold weather problems inherant to RRs is the VERY poor design
of the rear window latch.  It sits inside a little cup that is faced up, so
it collects & freezes any moisture that's around.  Lock deicer should be
standard issue for cold-weather RRs.

Tony

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover (#2)

>>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime

More....   If you have front or rear lamp gaurds, these are great for
collecting snow and covering the lights.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:01:36 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Consumer Reports hits Disco again

Did anyone see CR's latest shot at the Disco.  In a follow up to it's not so
great review, CR now questions the off road ability of the disco, the only
thing it got credit for in the first report.  They said the steering
components (?) are too low and exposed.  Their disco's steering was
damaged when they hit a hole on a dirt road.  Basically they told readers
not to buy a disco for its off rd ability.  
I wonder what would have happened to an explorer/Jeep GC on the
same hole and if CR's driver knows dip about driving off rd.  The shame is
that some people who really want a capable off rd vehicle are going to be
influenced away from one of the best on the market by this report. 
 On the bright side, less demand means lower prices for me  :)

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:01:04 -0800

I wouldn't worry about the impact "Consumer Reports" has on people looking 
for an "off-road" vehicle.  Mainly because it's the LAST place they'd look 
for information on off-road capabilities. To date, "Consumer Reports" is the 
only negative report on the Discovery I've seen. All others are fair and 
accurate in their reviews. OTOH, if you are looking for a 4WD mall-wagon, 
the CR is probably a reasonable source of info.

----------
From: 	William Owen[SMTP:ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us]
Sent: 	Thursday, December 21, 1995 1:01 PM
Subject: 	Consumer Reports hits Disco again

[CR Lambasting removed]

>...The shame is
>that some people who really want a capable off rd vehicle are going to be
>influenced away from one of the best on the market by this report. 
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:30:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: 1970 light wht for sale in Pa.

For anyone interested in a vehicle that is in such a condition that it 
could place in any British Car show you'd want to take it to drop me a 
note for more information.  This Rover is in close to mint condition and 
is presently in a garage in the Pittsburgh area.  The owner is a friend 
and I am acting as the seller because of his hectic schedule. 

Russ
67' 88  "The Pig"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:46:38
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette #2

>Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same?  I've
>only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the
>center.  How are the round head ones different to replace?  I think
>the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer
>the original look of them.

How many friends do you have? I ask this because it will sway your decision.
		 Pop rivets...one man job.
		"Round head" rivets...two man job.
 
Pop rivets are available with the blind end either 'open' or 'closed'. Not  
surprisingly, open end rivets are more widely available as they are cheaper. 
Closed end rivets are supposed to be water resistant as they effectively seal 
up the hole. In either case, they're easier to use than the "old fashioned' 
round head rivets on the Rover because they use a special tool and install 
from the outside. Us uppity Series Rover owners always use closed pop rivets, 
keeps out the elements!

If you insist on the real thing you'll need the help of another pair of hands 
to "back" the rivet head as you round it over on the inside (these 
contortions are always amusing to your helper). There are special tools that 
fit the particular size rivet you are assaulting. A capable hardware person 
should know what you're talking about.

A word about galvanic corrosion: be sure to use like metals when using 
fasteners. Steel rivets (or any fastener) in aluminum is a no-no as the 
combination of moisture and electrons eat the contacting surfaces into 
oblivion.I'd splurge and buy the official Rover Rivets because the engineers 
have spec'ed the rivets to take this phenomenon into account. 
All my troubles are Rover

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."
All my troubles are Rover

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:59:11
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again

CR staffers are paid to figure out the WRONG way to do everything. They 
succeed in spades.
All my troubles are Rover

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:08:47 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover

>in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago -
>still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that
>temperature.  The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few
>miles 
When I replaced my steering pump, I changed to Amsoil synthetic ATF in the
power steering 
system.  This eliminated the cold weather sluggishness completely.

>  With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of
>the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the
>scale.
Sounds like you have cooling system problems.  My 88 RR runs just below half
scale winter or 
summer under most all conditions.  I have gone through 3 temp guage sender
units  though.  If you're still running the factory thermostat, you should
first try replacing it.

Cheers, Randall

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 21:35:21 -0600 (CST)
From: David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: Gearbox treatments.

I use Slick 50 in my IIA in the gearbox, the difs, the main sump and the 
balls mixed with grease.  It really works well even at cold temps.  What 
I noticed most is the reduction in noise once the stuff had a few minutes 
to circulate around.  It has a good gling property that seems to help the 
engine on start up so we don't get as much lifter rattle before the pump 
comes up to pressure.  Go ahead and use it Danny, it seems to work great.
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 22:58:18 -0500
Subject: Re:  Lightweight for sale in PA

Would someone kindly send me the posting on the 1970 lightweight for Sale in
PA ...I deleted it by mistake..Thanks

                                                                        Steve
Bradke       72 s lll 88

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:32:04 -0800
Subject: Re: 	A Good Wish

To all LROs:

I sincerely wish every LRO anywhere the happiest of holidays and a great 1996! 
I've enjoyed reading the list every night since I went on-line. Even when I 
trudge up to my little escape over the garage at 11PM, I read the list before 
working on the newsletter and the inevitable passing out on top of the 
keyboard. The n-key rollover finally wakes me up with its chirping!

1995 was an exciting world in the LR world. 1996 will continue the pattern. 
Even though the Defender is taking a break, the rumors will be rampant for 
1997 with who knows what coming down the road. Stretch Disco? New model Landy? 
Will Defender come back? We'll all wait and see together. If nothing else, 
there should be some lively stuff on the list!

Meanwhile, I stare at my reconstructed NADA 6-cyl chassis laying on the garage 
floor - dreaming of the time that I'll *HAVE* the time to put poor old Big Red 
right again! And then I need to make it up to M'ville to retreive my poor old 
2A and get her finished. The recent resurgence in Series cars restos and frame 
ups has been nothing short of astonishing! Scan the prices in the ABP and RN 
lists to see what I'm talking about!

But when all of the hoopla is stripped away, its just you in your trusty Land 
Rover and the feeling that you get no matter what or when. Tough to put into 
words to a non-LRO. Yep, the feeling. Nothing else quite like them, is there?

See you on (and off) the trail in 1996!

cheers
Jim - 2 more years and my 2A will be 30!!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:34:36 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: broken half shafts

Shafts twist on a trail then work harden and snap in the car park
a week or three later - quite common with non Salisbury axles.
If you check them after the hard trip and find a twist
(usually at the inner splines) it saves a lot of bother to replace
them before they actually fail.

Lloyd

------------------------------

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From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: D90 w/alum hardtop available

If anyones looking for a new D90 with the aluminium hardtop, there's a white
one in a dealer 
showroom in eastern Pennsylvania still available.  Unfortunately at the
moment, I just can't swing it.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be telling you all!

If you're interested, send me a note and I'll provide the info.

Cheers, Randall
88RR
67IIASWB
70P6B

------------------------------

From: Willyz@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:59:41 -0500
Subject: 4 Ranchos for $100?

Whoever was suggesting "Four Wheel Parts Wholesalers" as a source of Ranchos
@$25 should be a little wary of that outfit. 

A few years ago I ordered a set of shocks (Doetsch Techs (sp?) and not for my
Rover), that were listed very inexpensively. When I received them they were
similiar in appearance to DT's but I noticed the bodies were stamped with
various numbers and the words "ProComp", which I believe is a cheap
aftermarket shock manufacturer. 

Out of curiosity I called DT directly and explained the situation. They
explained how 4WPW was notorious for selling "counterfit" parts. They were
VERY interested in getting their hands on the shocks I had been sent and
arranged for me to receive four of the "real thing" and picked up the "fakes"
 The four shocks they sent were indeed Doetsch Tech shocks and were stamped
accordingly.

Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded but I would be careful ordering from them.

Bill Kaszer
S3 SW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:56:21 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: more on gearbox oils

The D-90 with the lt77s uses ATF. It also has a pump and filter. I
also believe the new RS380? uses ATF also.

Russ Burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90

At 02:59 PM 12/22/95 GMT, Danny Phillips wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Dear all, I have got back some info on treatments to gearbox oils etc, thansk
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>i hope i have read that wrong but i am sure thats what it said. anyone know
>for sure.
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 13:08 EST
From: jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard)
Subject: Re: Thermal differences

>Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix 
>weather in the dead of summer?  After all, he'd have to .sig his messages 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>> Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam
>Ah, but it's *dry* heat, right Gerry?

My mother says, "He's an Elam.  Elams do that."  My mother is an Elam
too, so I can say that.

Anyway, I was in Phoenix last week, and when it was 55 out, people
were complaining about how cold it was.  It is amazing to me that
Flagstaff's high can be lower than their low, and it only take two
hours to drive between the two.

James Howard			jhoward@argus.lowell.edu
1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim"		Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:03:17 -0500
Subject: Re: more on gearbox oils

>however, i am sure when i read the haynes manual at home last
>night, it said even the manual gearbox uses automatic transmission fluid
I don't know about specific use of ATF in LR transmissions. 
Many automakers started using ATF in manual transmissions in the late
seventies/early eighties to reduce driveline losses and improve fuel economy.
If your specific transmission calls for it use it. If it doesn't don't.
ATF is probably the most highly developed "oil" in common use, and performs
great in the applications engineered for it. Manual transmissions have to be
re-engineered to use it and live.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:12:41 -0500 (EST)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: MAIL MADNESS

Anyone else on the list getting several full week-old copies of the Digest
from Mailer-Daemon@usaid.gov? What gives? This stuff is filling my mailbox.

Chris Stevens                           1969 SRIIa 88" SW

Beckett Klay Communications
100 West Road
Baltimore, Maryland 21204
USA
(410) 583-1722
(410) 583-1935 (FAX)
chrisste@Clark.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:15:28 -0600
From: scoghill@starnetinc.com (Skip Coghill)
Subject: My Discovery Observation

Hi,
New to the list here.  Thought I would put my input on the one item that I
noticed differently from every other car I have owned:

It put a smile on my face when I purchased my first bottle of washer
solution yesterday and installed it in my Discovery.  This is the first
time in my life that the reservoir completely swallowed the WHOLE bottle
and I did not have to store 22% of the remaining solution in my garage or
top off my wives car.

Guess its' the small things in life that make me happy!  :-)

Skip Coghill

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:43:55 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: MAIL MADNESS

Chris Stevens fumes:

> Anyone else on the list getting several full week-old copies of the Digest
> from Mailer-Daemon@usaid.gov? What gives? This stuff is filling my mailbox.

Some people have full mailboxes, the receiving server is returning 
the mail to the list and apparently the major doesn't know the 
difference, thinks it's a posting and sends it out again. Infinite 
loop.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:46:52 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: My Discovery Observation

Skip Coghill <scoghill@starnetinc.com> writes:

:It put a smile on my face when I purchased my first bottle of washer
:solution yesterday and installed it in my Discovery.  This is the first
:time in my life that the reservoir completely swallowed the WHOLE bottle
:and I did not have to store 22% of the remaining solution in my garage or
:top off my wives car.
:
:Guess its' the small things in life that make me happy!  :-)

 Speak for yourself Skip!

 Did you see the Discovery recall notice last week??  Apparently the
 windshield washer fluid tube develops a small leak over the view port
 and drains the entire contents into the engine sump.  Any white liquid
 coming off the end of your dipstick?  Take it in and have it checked!

 Happy Holidays!!                            \ /
                                           -- o --
                          ______             / \
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

 PS- Just kidding! =:o

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 17:37:57 -0600 (CST)
From: David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: broken half shafts

I saw a very good trick in one of my hot rod mags.  The fellows who race 
and drag often paint a straight white line down the axle when they first 
install them.  From time to time the check the axle, and if the line 
isn't straight they know the axle has twisted and they change it before 
it costs them a race.  This might be a good trick if you were going on a 
real safari and didn't want to have an axle failure in the outback, 
otherwise it would be a bit of overkill for most of us.  Not a bad idea 
however.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:57:09 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Camel Trophy article

Hello, all. Here's a link to an article in the online version of The 
Detroit News newspaper on the Camel Trophy. The picture alone is worth 
the look:

http://detnews.com/AUTOS/0802/auto0802.htm

The warmest and happiest Christmas to everyone!

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

From: rmodica@east.pima.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:55:15 MST
Subject: Disco SRS light

Happy Holidays to All,

Just got back from a 240 mile trip to the dealer to diagnose the trouble with
my SRS light.  A month ago I had removed the battery to clean off corrosion and
upon reinstallation the air bag SRS light remained on.  A phone call to the
dealer got me nowhere so I drove up to Phoenix to have them take a look.  Once
hooked up to the computer/CD diagnostic machinery the tech said nothing was
wrong.  It seems that when current is interrupted the circuit sends an error
message and the SRS light stays on.  There is apprently NO way to turn it off
except at the dealer's tech station.  In the future the tech told me to hook up
a spare battery to the cables and keep the system at 12v.  YRMV.

While I was there I inquired about steel wheels from the Defenders.  I was told
that the 95 D-90s all came with alloy wheels.  They said the steel wheels on 94
D-90s were all replaced at the port and the steel wheels scrapped since they
didn't meet DOT standards.  When I mentioned that other LROs online had
purchased said steel wheels, they just repeated their story-- all steel wheels
were replaced at Port Of Entry and scrapped.  YSMV

Rob Modica 	51 SI 80"	60 SII 109" Safari
Tucson  AZ	94 Disco 5spd  Casper

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 10:55:52 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: oil additives

While on the subject of oil additives, I just saw an ad for Mecacyl.  
Anyone had any experience with this one?  Here are some of the claims 
they make:

"Mecacyl is not a surface coating nor an oil-enhancer but is the first 
Intra Metallic Hyper Lubricating agent (sheesh!) of all meatls giving 
mechanical devices total liberation(!) due to near zero(!!!) friction 
levels."

"the engine is under no friction stress and can operate to its fullest 
efficiency"

"After the first treatment with Mecacyl, the engine runs smoother and/or 
picks up RPM immediately, and after the third treatment the engine has 
turbine-like acceleration and noise."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 11:06:04 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: oil additives...more

sorry folks, accidentally hit the send button.  Here's more:

"engine noise is decreased, normal running temperature is decreased by 
14.35 degrees (very precise eh?!), exhaust fumes are drastically 
decreased by up to 20%.

Fumes due to oil burning are reduced by 30-98%, and fuel consumption 
reduced on average between 8-16%"

"Mecacyl must be used on machines that still have potential(!!), as it is 
not the panacea for engines about to terminate their life."

Sounds great doesn't it.  Should be compulsory.  Hmmm.

Unfortunately I'm a little cynical about these things as, in my younger 
days, I used Teflon based products on two motors, both of which 
subsequently went downhill rapidly, one self destructing.

Just wondered if anyone has heard of it/used it.  Comes from Europe 
apparently.

Season's greetings to everyone, keep on 'roving in '96.

Cheers.

====================================================================
                                      _____________________
                                     /_____________________\
Tony Yates                          |                       |
                                    |                       |
Port Hedland                     _  | _________ _ _________ |  _
Western Australia               |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-|
                                |_|  -----------------------  |_|
                                   \|  \ =============== /  |/
A.Yates@bom.gov.au                   =======================
                                    |o  _ |===========| _  o| 
Opinions expressed                 /|  (_)|===========|(_)  |\
here are almost but                ||o____|===========|____o||
not quite entirely                 ||_______________________||
unlike those of the                \[_______________________]/
Bureau of Meteorology.              |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/|
                                    |\|/|               |\|/|
'85 110 V8 (Pamela)                 -----               -----
=====================================================================
                    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 20:26:22 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: MAIL MADNESS

Chris asks....

>Anyone else on the list getting several full week-old copies of the Digest
>from Mailer-Daemon@usaid.gov? What gives? This stuff is filling my mailbox.
-

It looks like whoever is at that address has a full mailbox and messages are
being returned. The "usaid.gov" address is probably at some government
facility which has been closed down by the current budget crisis. 

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

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