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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 03:36:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: New ABP Catalog & SI Frame

Bill just got new reading material for the privy...

it is> 
> light years ahead of the old one, and MUCH better organized.  The new

flyer is> 
> light years ahead of the old one, and MUCH better organized.  The new

The *have* included a new section, just before the price list. Very clever,
these guys...  The new section is a LR part# to ABP part# cross-ref.

It seems to me that they realized probably most all of thier customers have
either factory shop manuals *or* Rovers North catalogs, both which have
detailed drawings with Land Rover part numbers. The new ABP catalog has real
small drawings which are practically useless. So they (ABP) saved money by
NOT including drawings, figuring everyone could use something else for
reference...  

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 03:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Splitfire & Over-the Road

Hank Lapa sez....

>      My odometer recently stopped working.  Does that affect the accuracy 
>      of the speedometer?  Is this most likely a problem with the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>instrument 
>      or with the cable ends' engagement?
 
If the Speedo still works but the odometer quit, then chances are it's a
problem with the odometer mechanism itself. The cable drives a shaft in the
speedometer. Said shaft has a gear which meshes with a gear on the odometer.
The shaft also spins a magnet arangement on the end which makes the
speedometer needle move. In theory, the odometer could sieze up and cause the
gears to strip and your needle could still operate. I would think that if
the odometer froze, the cable would twist and break.
 
You sure the speedometer actually works?? With enough vibration, the needle
will move around the dial by itself. Really! 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: RR clutch and visiting San Francisco.....
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:10:59 GMT

Bill wrote:

>Subject: RR clutch master cylinder
>Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 05:41:17 -0500
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>So I figure the seals are gone within the master cylinder ...
>Does that sound reasonable ?

Beyond a doubt.  BTW, did you get my mail, you live just down the road
from me?

>Now for you UK folk - If I get parts from unipart can I get the same
>manufacturer (lockheed or girling, etc.) as from the LR parts ?

Yes, but these items are quite reasonable from the LR parts dept, at
least for my '79 - they have slashed the prices of some parts for
older vehicles and you may be pleasantly surprised.

San Francisco:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm going to be out there 13, 14 and 15 this month.  Do we have any
members?  I met Dixon the last time I went to Canada and really
appreciated him showing me around for an evening.

Some of you may recognise me from the list from a year or two back
(Hi!), maybe I'll get round to posting a summary for others to read.

Cheers,
Steve.   (ex V8 lightweight, presently '79RR)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 17:56:03 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Speed and speedo

     Mike,
     
     Having seen the letters in the LRO mag about how motorists in the 
     mother country seem to resent a fast Land-Rover going down the 
     highway, skepticism is entirely justified.  All I know is that my 
     needle doesn't wobble at all from zero to well over 75.  There was 
     very much a time when the thing couldn't get out of its own way, on 
     slopes, cold days, days of the week ending in "y" and so on.  Seem 
     that wires being routed to plugs in the wrong order had something to 
     do with it.  Also, when I finally got around to adjusting the 
     distributor angle (clear to the stop!) to get the best idle, a big 
     improvement was noted.  When the wifey comes home from Okinawa for a 
     few days, I'll have her pace me moving along the big slab; I may even 
     fix a level in the car to ensure there's no gravitational assist.
     
     If the radiator panel does indeed glow from atmospheric friction, all 
     pilgrims coming to see her (the Rover, not the wife) owe me a pint of 
     Sam Adams.  If it lies significantly, visitors are still welcome and 
     I'll buy the Guiness.  Til then, "That wasn't a German Starfighter; 
     that was an American Rover!"
     
     Best Regards,
     Hank  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 07:22:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Hal A. Lightwood" <halightw@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Subject: Washing a LR?

Is it out of the question to try and make my LR a litle cleaner looking?
Or is this against some sort of code?  Every LR I have seen seems to look
like it was never washed, painted or cleaned whatsoever.  The guy that my
father bought his LR from said he had never washed it, and had never been
washed before to his knowledge.  My father never washed it for the 15
years he had it, and now that he has given it to me, I feel as though I
shouldn't break this tradition.  Is this a common? Do Land Rovers every
get washed?  

Hal A. Lightwood <halightw@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 07:28:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Hal A. Lightwood" <halightw@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Subject: Clutch/Gear Problem

I have a problem with my Clutch and/or gearbox.  I cannot put it in
reverse unless I first put it in 3rd or 4th first.  If I don't do this 
it will make a terrible grind before it grudgingly slips in.  This is also
starting to happen occasionally when I put it in 2nd.  I don't use first,
due to the fact there is a tooth missing (or two). Could this occur due to
the clutch plate being worn down? Or possibly the slave fluid leaking?  It
does leak and I have to keep it topped up all the time.

Also, does anybody have a spare SeriesIII gearbox or misc gears for one? I
need to replace that gear with the broken tooth.
 
 Hal A. Lightwood <halightw@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Washing a LR?
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 09:11:10 -0500 (EST)

> Is it out of the question to try and make my LR a litle cleaner looking?
> Or is this against some sort of code?  Every LR I have seen seems to look
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> shouldn't break this tradition.  Is this a common? Do Land Rovers every
> get washed?  
	
	While some might regard those that wash a Land Rover as a 
	Philistine, there are parts of a Land Rover that you should
	wash with great diligence.  Happily for all of us, the
	areas that should be washed are not easily visible to the
	great unwashed masses, because as we all know, our Land
	Rovers look far better covered in mud than they do all
	prettied up.  So where to clean...

	Clean the frame thoroughly after every mud run.  Use a 
	pressure washer on the frame if you have one.  Leaving mud and dirt
	on the frame will just create nice pockets of moisture to
	attract rust, and later holes, in the frame.  While you
	are at it, wash off the wiring loom where it appears in the
	fenders, above the rear cross member etc.  The older looms
	have a woven covering on them.  Keeping it wet only reduces
	life expectancy.  Basically there is a need to wash the
	Land Rover, but only in the areas that matter and were
	it doesn't affect the look of the vehicle.

	Rgds,

	Dixon

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Clutch/Gear Problem
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 14:33:15 GMT

Hal,
On the basis of "cheapest first" I'd replace the slave cylinder.It
certainly IMO would produce the effect you describe.Mine did,but
then mines a 11A with the halfsynchro box,and I cant remember
off hand whether the 111 box has synchro on reverse as well.
As for washing,as Andy Woodward remarked puzzle the Yuppies at
the high pressure hose wash......get out and get it clean underneath,
bugger the top,it wont rust(but *they* dont know).
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com <John_Hong@3mail.3Com.COM>
Date:  2 Nov 94  7:49:14 EDT
Subject: IBEX is sharp!!

I saw one at the Derbyshire rally last year - I'd coin the word "pragmaTECH" to 
describe it.  Space age looking yet very accessible.  Fit and finish were 
superb.  Minimal overhangs with a very clean exterior - nothing unnecessary 
poking out where it could get torn off scrubbing through brush.

No joke about new panels from any sheet metal shop - the balance between ease 
of fabrication and esthetics was brilliant IMHO.

On the home front, my beastie is running good again - sigh!   Life is good. 
  
I really would like to do the frame up thing soon though - I'd be interested in 
hearing from any folks who have rented "self storage" space (or other rental 
space) for this task.

John 

------------------------------

From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: digests of past LRO dialog...
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 10:14:25 -0600 (CST)

I have posted this offer here before, but there are several
new people on the LRO list.  If you have FTP capability, old
LRO "digests" are available for aquisition and late-nite browsing:

Ray Harder

***********************************************************************
** anonymous ftp notes -- note this works, other methods should too. **
***********************************************************************
NOTE:  Digests 92.8 thru 93.10 were collected by Mark Grieshaber and
       shared with me.  Digests 93.10 (late) thru current were
       collected by Ray Harder.
Obtaining LRO digests procedure:
   -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine.
   -- issue the ftp command -- "ftp lulu.cc.missouri.edu".
   -- at the prompt, the user is anonymous and the password
      is anything, but the convention is the sender's user/node.
   -- have ftp cd to the LRO subdirectory -- "cd pub/lro"
   -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine (if
      you didn't do it above -- "lcd Mail" (for example).
   -- issue the "mget *" ftp command to transfer the files.
   -- issue the "quit" ftp subcommand.
   -- Use your mailer to browse the files or print them for late
      night enjoyment.
   -- enjoy.
***********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 10:46:24 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: New Range Rover

I was looking at a picture of the new Range Rover and much to my surprise I
realized that one of my favorite oil leaking/seal eating areas is gone - no
swivel pin housings. The new Range Rover has the same axle set up one sees
on the American 4x4s or at least that is how it appears. (I believe that
Rovers used to have fully floating axles and now they are just
semi-floating - is that a correct technical term?) Also the diff pumpkins
are no longer off set to the right but are now off set to the left. I guess
this marks the end of some of the parts swaping that can go on between
Rovers (that is if my assumption that the 90/110/RR shared some of the same
axles is correct).

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 10:46:22 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Re: Clutch/Gear Problem

>I have a problem with my Clutch and/or gearbox.  I cannot put it in
>reverse unless I first put it in 3rd or 4th first.  If I don't do this
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>the clutch plate being worn down? Or possibly the slave fluid leaking?  It
>does leak and I have to keep it topped up all the time.

I have a question that might pertain to this and pardon if I show some
ignorance here.

Is there a possibilty for movement to be transfered from the engine to the
gearbox even if the clutch is working properly? Does the tip of the shaft
coming out of the front of the gearbox turn in a pilot bush at the center
of the flywheel? I seem to remember something like that from when I had the
engine out. And if something got screwed with that bush could there be some
torque transfered even though the clutch was working properly?

I have the same problem as above but not all the time. I have a new clutch
master and a good slave.

Any thought on the above . .  .?

Greg

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Uniprat bits
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 16:54:51 UNDEFINED

/Now for you UK folk - If I get parts from unipart can I get the same 
/manufacturer (lockheed or girling, etc.) as from the LR parts ?  I noticed the
/slave was lockheed, which is what I could have gotten for half that at
/the local parts store (which I can walk to from work).

Cant say explicitly about brake parts, but I needed a headlight unit, adn went 
to the local Landrover place, which also dealt with Rover adn hence Uniprat. 
After teh traditional 1/2 hour wait while all teh staff wandered around 
pretending to be busy, the bloke at teh counter tells me that teh LR unit is 
exactly the same part as teh Uniprat bit for a Mini - you just pay 3 times teh 
price to get it wrapped up in a Landrover box.

Guess what I bought.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 09:25:10 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Washing a LR?

In message <Pine.3.05.9411020754.A13473-a100000@flash.LakeheadU.Ca> "Hal A. 
Lightwood" writes:
> Is it out of the question to try and make my LR a litle cleaner looking?
> Or is this against some sort of code?  Every LR I have seen seems to look
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> shouldn't break this tradition.  Is this a common? Do Land Rovers every
> get washed?  

Mine gets washed.

Anytime it gets into salty water or beach sand, I take it to a car wash and 
spray the frame & underside of the car.

Whenever the Land Rover is filled with manure, garbage, or livestock, it gets 
parked facing uphill afterwards.  The tail gate gets dropped and the bed hosed 
out.

Just before I go to a British car field meet in the Land Rover, she gets a 
complete cleaning inside & out.  She likes to present herself as best as 
possible to the British car public.  It gives me a chance to get up on the roof 
and scrape off the moss and lichens growing up there, and to evict the spiders 
from inside the car.  So she normally gets a complete scrubbing down just before
the Portland All British Field meet and a quick hose down just before the Palo 
Alto all British field meet the following Sunday.

I don't see the point in keeping a car dirty just for the sake of it being 
dirty.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Can I join in?
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 09:44:00 PST

Hey!  I'm one of the Land Rover afflicted; owned a total of 3 of the beasts 
for the last 25 years.  Got a new 88 in '69 and sold it to another British 
Hardware fan in '77...he still has it.  Had a 67 88 pickup for a couple 
years but it was too much of maintenance hog.  Bought my current '72 88 in 
'77....and love it dearly.

Gerry Mugele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 09:47:35 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch/Gear Problem

In message <Pine.3.05.9411020722.B13473-a100000@flash.LakeheadU.Ca> "Hal A. 
Lightwood" writes:
> I have a problem with my Clutch and/or gearbox.  I cannot put it in
> reverse unless I first put it in 3rd or 4th first.  If I don't do this 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Also, does anybody have a spare SeriesIII gearbox or misc gears for one? I
> need to replace that gear with the broken tooth.
>  Hal A. Lightwood <halightw@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>

Your clutch is not completely releasing.

Most likely cause is air in your clutch hydrolic system.  Its a bear to bleed 
unless you do a power bleed.  Air normally gets into the system because the 
fluid is leaking past the seal in your slave cylinder.  You might consider this 
an oppertunity to look over the system and check out the mechanicals as well.  
The rod needs to be properly adjusted, as well as the pedal part up top.  The 
lower mechanical linkage pins can wear & holes can elongate.  The lower 
mechanical clutch linkage on my LR was so badly worn than it took up almost 
1-1/2 inches of pedal travel.  If yours are badly worn, parts are cheapish & 
will restore that area to new.  There is a collar with a pin at each end that 
transmits the rotation to the clutch plate.  If one of those pins is starting to
shear, it would add a lot of slop.  Generally a good pressure plate and 
hydrolics can make up for badly worn mechanicals.  But badly work mechanicals 
will make weak hydrolics noticable very quickly.

I would look at the slave cylinder for any signs of leakage before bleeding.  If
you see it, pick up a new Gurling unit or have the old one resleaved.  They 
never seem to be long term reliable after rebuilding.  Be careful not to over 
tighten the threaded connections.  The cylinder will strip easily & use new 
copper seals.

gravity bleeding never seems to get all the air out of the system.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 13:06:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Washing a LR?

Hal ponders the age old question....

> Is it out of the question to try and make my LR a litle cleaner looking?
      - snip -
> washed before to his knowledge.  My father never washed it for the 15
> years he had it, and now that he has given it to me, I feel as though I
> shouldn't break this tradition.  Is this a common? Do Land Rovers every
> get washed?  
none

Well Hal, the truth of the matter is...
We only wash the part that matters... What is underneath the beast!
Maybe, occasionally a sprinkling of water on the windscreen.. just so you
can see out of the encrusted grime. To paraphrase a saying "A clean Land
Rover is the sign of a sick mind!"

Now Maloney... no comments on how I apply this philosophy to the critters in
my beard!!!

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)
 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Cheapo 90 chassis 
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 09:36:04 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Andy and others write:

//because there is no demand.And Dixon is right,I'm afraid.Given his
//conditions,and ours,the modern chassis just dont last as long.There
//is some *very* funny steel about.There are already articles on putting
//new rear ends on young 90 and 110 models.Not for nothing was the phrase
//"British Racing Rust"coined!If there are two things our climate is
//famous for its the ability to rust,and the incidence of arthritis.
/
/A freind of mine who was a Warden for Newborough Desert nature reserve took 
/his 90 on teh beach regularly as part of his job. The chassis fell in two in 
/teh middle inside a year!!!!!!!!! Not impressed.
/
/Having said that, My 90 is 10 years old, gets Waxoyled all over the outside of 
/teh chassis every year (takes about 15 minutes) adn all over the inside every 
/5 (no idea how long cos I get it done by someone with e HIGH pressure 
/injector...). There is NO rust on it other than a few superficial flakes - 
/even on teh outriggers. If you see some, you just spray a bit on from a plant 
/sprayer carried round for the purpose, adn bingo - no further problem.

My questions are these. First, is there anyone across the pond who KNOWS for
a fact, that the steel currently used in Land Rover frames is inferior to that
used in the older Series vehicles. And in what way is it inferior, ie what exactly
is it that makes it supposedly rust faster than the older stuff. It's still the
same gauge, ie just as thick, and with the wax injection now used, "should" I say
SHOULD last even longer than the old rigs. At this point, all I've heard is just rumour
and heresay that the British steel is not what it used to be. Perhaps someone
has a connection with a bloke at one of the steel mills who could tell us that, "yes
we have changed the alloy of the steel to an inferior grade that will rust faster
but what the hell, it costs us less to make."

OK, next question. Did the friend who regularly drove his Defender on the beach ever
take the time to clean it afterwards. I would venture to say that no vehicle, old Land
Rover, or new, can stand constant exposure to that kind of environment without some
corrosion problems. And if no preventive measures were taken, washing to remove the salt,
oiling to prevent further corrosion, then of course his frame would rust through. No rocket
science required.

Last question is regarding the Defender suspension. In the US, in order to evade an import
tarrif on import SUV's, Land Rover I HEARD had put heavier rear springs on the D90 to raise
the gross vehicle weight above the cutoff margin of 6000 pounds. I asked a few folks at the
dealer and Rover's North and they tentatively confirmed this saying this was the reason for
the stiffness and slight loss of articulation, and that the anti-sway bar had a negligable
effect. Ie; removing it would not improve the articulation much. I was told that if I put
on some "standard" rear coils, presto, a nice supple suspension would be mine. Well, I ordered
a set of "standard" springs, and started in, removing the left rear first. You can see where
this is going right? It was the same as the "standard" one I had standing by to replace it with.
And the funny thing is, Rover's North has a set of "heavy duty" coils listed below these
"standard" models. So, are the "standard" rear coils in the UK and elsewhere of a lighter spring 
rate than those used in the US? If so, what is the proper Land Rover part number to look for.
The ones listed here are NRC9448 and NRC9449 for "standard", NRC9462 and NRC9463 for "heavy
duty". The reason for all this blabbering is that on some trails, I'm lifting an axle where I
previously did not in my Series lll. Comments please.
								Rgds
								Mike Fredette
								94 Defender 90

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 16:30:03 +0000
Subject: SLROC enduro (not short)

(if this is a duplicate posting, I'm sorry (a bit))

Those of you who spotted the blurb about the SLROC enduro-race can skip 
this bit -- for the rest, a quick description of what it was all about:

The Scottish Land Rover Owners Club decided to have a trials/comp-safari 
type race with a difference: instead of racing round the track as fast as 
possible and the fasted one wins, they decided to have a 
drive-for-6-hours type race, and the one with the greatest number of laps 
would win.

Here are my thoughts from the day:
---------------------------------------------------

My first Marshalling
(Otherwise called a view from the mist)

It is 6 in the morning I must be absolutely mad to do this.   I packed
last night (food and a change of clothes). I've just got my thermos of
tea to make and then cycle off to go and meet Rupert and his 101 for the
drive down to Galashiels. It's supposed to be an 8 am start for us
marshals.

It is now 8.15 am in the morning.   We've driven down from Edinburgh in
the 101 and we've actually managed to find the site.  The 101 is very
comfortable for short journeys, but I'd have to change th e seats for any
trips over an hour.  We are currently driving along the dirt track with
large cardboard signs along the side that says please drive on the track.
It is a bit misty so we are not too sure where we're aiming for, but
we're getting there. 

We've just spotted a Range Rover in the mist.

We have found the farmer who has lent us the land for the weekend. He's
the one who's been putting out the signs. As we are the first to arrive,
I've been roped into organising the parking: spectator s here &
competitors over there. The farmer has also promised to find a couple of
helpers to do the parking so that we can get off to the marshals meeting
when it happens.

It is coming up for 9 o'clock.  Scrutineering starts soon.  It's still
around here at the moment, hopefully it will clear.   Not many people have
turned up yet, so I've been left to deal with t he parking a bit longer. 
Hopefully the actual parking people will turn up soon and I'll be able to
go and do my real job - which is marshalling the race.

We've been assigned Marshalling radio Lowbox 3 and sent off to the top of
the course. When we get there, discovered another little problem, a 90
degree right-hander with a forest of young trees on th e outside, so we
are going to go and sit on that as well.

It is still misty and the competitors have been round the course once.
The mist is so think that we can see 200 yards either side of our
station, and no more.

After seeing the way these guys are treating the right-hander, we have
re-positioned ourselves out so that we can pull people from the midst of
the trees (they appear to be sliding broad-side into th e fence). Now we
wait for the sound of the first car screaming along the road at some
ridiculous speed trying to break his own neck.

It promises to be a very entertaining (if visually limited) day.

The racers have now been round the course twice and the drivers are
getting used to the course. Just close to our observation point there is
a small lump in one side of the track.   This appears to b e causing the
cars some difficulty.   They are coming down fairly fast (30-40 mph) and
when they hit that it actually throws them off to one side.  We've
already had one of the posts hit a couple of time so this fence looks as
if it is going to go by the end of the day. After that they are coming up
to what used to be the right-angled bend that is now well and truly cut
up so I expect the trees will start to go soon as well.  

It is now an hour - hour-and-a-half into the race and we can tell who has
got good tyres.   The surface here is fairly loamy, cut up into loose top
soil with grass in it, no mud, and the knobbly maxc ross tyres are
definitely making better progress through this than things like SATs and
other patterned tyres.

Once of the problems of course of these high grip tyres is the amount of
crap that they throw up as they accelerate out of the bend.   This corner
isn't so much cut up as trenched!

The course itself appeared to be about 2 miles long - I didn't discover
this until afterwards when I was clearing everything up.   It starts from
the starter's caravan, down through the gorse hill on one side of the
glen, across the first field through a small water splash - a stream,  up
a long uphill race through a gate in a stone wall, up a one foot lip,
through a second stone gate, sharp lef t along a narrow track between a
high embankment and some trees along sharp right, very sharp right with
trees and fence on the outside (our first Marshall point) and then there
was a long open strai ght across the top of the other side of the glen,
which eventually cut back into the quarry to a very steep drop, sort of
35-40 degrees down (we almost toppled the 101 going down it)!  As soon as
the drop flattened out the track turned sharp left along the bottom of the
quarry  down a little bit stone embankment, back along the quarry floor
and into the horseshoes. These were 3 U-turns straddlin g a grassy dell.
The track went up the hill on one side 180 degree turn, down and up on
the other side (that must have been a good 1-in-2 to 1-in-1 slope up that
hill), U-turn down, U-turn back up ag ain into an embanked turn after a
gentle climb, back through the first stone wall, with a one-foot drop
just before the gate. Back through the lower field, break hard, through
the (very muddy) water splash, and then blast up the hill back up to the
starter's gate. Up near the spectators there was a little bit of twisty
up and down track to make it nice and interesting for people.

I suppose I really ought to describe some of the vehicles going round this 
course:

A green 90, no windscreen (number 32), a very chopped racer
An orange 90 (number 2), a soft top over the roll-cage and a grilled 
   tailgate.
A SIIA, number 22 or 33 (depending on which of the two badges you look 
   at). It' a purple pick-up and sounds like it's a 2.25 having great fun.
A white 90, severely hacked, it's got virtually no dash board whatsoever.  
   Almost everything has been removed that is not needed. By the way - he 
   has a green "L-plate" on the back.
A blue ex-SIII.  This has twin headlights in each wing, and has also got 
   square cut wings as well.    Full roll cage, no top, no soft top, nothing.
A highly modified Range Rover (number 97).   This is a full spec 
   (hard-topped) racer, having great fun chewing massive great holes.
A blue 90 (number 25), sounds pretty much a normal 90. This is a 
   road-taxed 90 and he's having fun. The driver is a youngster (age 17 I 
   discovered later)

We have now moved positions we have joined a 90 station wagon. We're
pulling people out when they get stuck, he's having too much to do.  
Life's going to be far more interesting now.

We are now just over half-way through the race and it is surprising the
number of leaf sprung vehicles that are still running despite the
hammering that they are getting. The average speed on some of the open
bits is approaching 70mph for the serious racing machines

There have a number of minor accidents - Alex Lindsay lost a propshaft
and tore the leaves of half an axle; Sheila Wilson also lost a propshaft.
 We have a number of Marshall's spoils in the back of our vehicle: half
an exhaust pipe; the wheel fairing from a 90; and the rear gate from the
orange 90.   One of the vehicles, no. 25, to be precise, has become
intimate with some trees, but he is stil l running. Another of the 90's
has smacked his nearside wing of something and it's peeled back, flapping
along the ground with the whole of the engine bay exposed to the world.

Well that is it. It's all over, everybody has packed up; everything is
pulled in.  It is 5 o'clock and getting dark.  It's probably going home
time.  We are just going down to find out what is happen ing and then head
back to Edinburgh. We did manage to have a quick run round the course as
we pulled in the course markers -- the drop down into the quarry was very
nasty. We almost tipped the 101 on to it's side there (reports say that
the rear wheel was over 2 feet off the ground!)

The day is done and it is time reflect on all the things that have 
happened during the past day.

Well we started off with about 9 racers:
Two of them were taken out due drive train damage.  
The Range Rover retired with electrical problems
One of the 90's I know was taken out due to lack of fuel.   He just didn't 
have enough fuel for 6 hours driving.  We have three people running at the 
end and the rest retired after suffering various amounts of body damage.

The winner? Oh, I don't know :)  I think that it was the SIII with the 
twin headlamps.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/>
#======================================================================#
I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek.   |Land Rover owners do
Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain.  |  it in the mud.

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: November LRO
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 13:52:43 -0500 (EST)

	Amazing, an LRO the month before the cover date.  Got the November
	LRO on Monday.  A first!  Now to see what is contained in this issue
	that will be of interest.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Cheapo 90 chassis
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 19:13:06 UNDEFINED

>OK, next question. Did the friend who regularly drove his Defender on the beach
>ever
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>oiling to prevent further corrosion, then of course his frame would rust
>through. No rocket
>science required.

No, course not. It was a company vehicle...... But even so, that's a lot 
quicker Hara-kiri than you would expect from a Landrover in those conditions.
 Lots of Series 3s have been abused much worse for much longer (e.g. 
coastguard vehicles).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com
Date: 2 Nov 94 15:36:54 -0600
Subject: HEADLINES "ROVER PLUNGES OVER CLIFF"

Over the weekend a group of youths were up in the whisler area(north of 
vancouver b.c., canada) having fun in snow on one of the thousands of logging 
roads in b.c. nothing really particular with the exception that they were 
driving a lwb landrover. as the story goes they were turning around on this 
single lane logging road and the driver accidentally went over the cliff!!!. 
100meters straight down, 300 feet. 5 people in the truck flipping all over. when 
they landed in the bushes below one girl walked away with only scratches, the 
driver had a broken leg and arm. and well the other three didnt make it. call it 
a miracle that anyone survived, maybe its because of the rover?? i really wonder 
how well they may of faired if they were in jeep.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 09:35:03 +1100
From: lloyd@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Lloyd Allison)
Subject: new subscriber, let's see if this works

speedo's - I had one seize many years ago at 80K miles.
   the little shaft carrying the finger that pokes the numbers round
   seized and the drive cable twisted itself to pieces.
   It was relatively easy to dismantle, clean, lubricate and reassemble.

synthetic oil - I have heard (so this is at least 3rd hand) that once
   using synthetic oil, you should not revert to non-synthetic oil.
   I have also read that the Army Perentie 110's use Castrol FMX in
   the transfer case (original RR transfer case with some mod's).

lastly, I am looking for images of Land-Rovers for a world wide web page,
   esp' series 2 and 2A, and anything "special" or rare such
   as Fwd Control, light-weight, conversions, ...
   I have a scanner but please don't send photographs without
   discussing it via email first!

------------------------------

From: "Jurgen Klus" <PSJK@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au>
Date:          Thu, 3 Nov 1994 09:42:06 GMT-0930
Subject:       EFI Snorkels

Introducing an air intake, or snorkel, to an EFI RR or Discovery is 
not a real problem, but it needs to be tackled with some thought as 
to how the system works.
The EFI electronics is expecting an air intake system of a specific 
length. Now, it doesn't measure it itself, does it? What the system 
is interested in is the apparent length of the intake, that is, its 
apparent wavelength. Therefore, the snorkel, as opposed to a bit of 
exhaust pipe cut and bent to fit, must achieve the same wavelength as 
the electronics is expecting. Any deviation from that will result in 
the electronics throwing up.
TJM in Austalia has a snorkel for the Discovery 3.5 ltr V8i engine. I 
assume that a retailer or manufacturer where you live sells them to.
Of course, if you have a diesel, it doesn't give a damn what length 
anything is, just so long as it gets plenty of air.  (Reminds me of 
some women I know, oops, I shouldn't have said that, sorry!)
That's my thoughts, anyway.
Jurgen Klus  Tel 618 201 2413    Fax 618 201 3877
When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 18:50:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Gregory Brown <brow7767@mstr.hgc.edu>
Subject: RR Clutch Master Cylinder

Bill, one of two things maybe wrong.  Either you still have air in the 
system, hydraulic clutches are a pain in the a.. (is this digest 
sensored?), or your seal to the reservoir is bad.  I am not familiar with 
the design of the RR clutch master but the series master has an end seal 
that keeps fluid from going back into the reservoir.  In the RR case, if 
it is designed like a brake master cylinder, the seal crosses a port that 
leads to the reservoir and thus seals off the reservoir so pressure can 
build. In this design a second seal is used to keep reservoir fluid from 
leaking out by the pushrod.  Anyway try bleeding the unit again, if it 
still creeps in to engagment rebuild of replace.

Greg Brown
71 Series IIA 88

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: November LRO
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 16:43:01 PST

I think they ship two months issues at the same time.
Any thing to make a buck.
Russ
> 	Amazing, an LRO the month before the cover date.  Got the November
> 	LRO on Monday.  A first!  Now to see what is contained in this issue
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> 	that will be of interest.
> 	Rgds,

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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