From Alan Smedley Thu Nov 30 19:43:03 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 19:43:03 -1000 From: Alan Smedley Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. I have recieved some comments and/or answers to items directly from others and I have had some replies which have been posted to the LRO Digest. I would have thought the purpose of the digest was to "Share" information not just to get started with what becomes direct messaging to a limited few. Where the subject matter of of mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and the person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? :-) Alan Smedley (-: :-) Plymoth Blue '92 Range Rover (-: From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Nov 30 10:40:30 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:40:30 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: Dutch 4wd magazines >On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Roy Wassili wrote: >> Have you received the mags yet? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Magazines just arrived. Have sent off the latest newsletter for > your purusal... Dixon, Just received the newsletter. I'll enjoy reading it! Regards, Roy LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From LTC Larry Smith Thu Nov 30 7:42:08 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 7:42:08 EST (1242Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: O/D noise: Could I have a loose shaft nut? Alan, I just went through something similar with my '72 88 petrol. Thought I was going to end up replacing the whole overdrive unit. Finally got around to pulling everything down the Sunday before Thanksgiving (US). When the overdrive is installed, the maingear on the end of the transmission is removed and a sleeve clutch is installed. This has roller bearings that support the end of the overdrive input shaft and teeth that mesh with the input also. The only time this assy gets lubed is with bearing grease on assembly. My setup had completely dried up, the sleeve clutch teeth "rolled over" and the bearings scored. Ordered a sleeve and bearing service kit from RN along with the gasket (Xmsn to OD). Be sure to use high temp bearing grease (like for servicing wheel bearings on disc brake vehicles) on reassembly. I plan on checking and regreasing every 10,000 miles from now on. 'til later, Larry From "barnett childress" Thu Nov 30 8:45:35 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 8:45:35 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello to all, I have been reading for a couple of months now and feel like jumping in so here goes. I bought a new 1995 D90 from LRMW in Natick MA. back in May. It took me over a year to save, scrimp and sell a few things to get up the money for a good down payment. Driving off of the dealers lot I was still wondering if I had made a wise choice or a huge mistake! First let me say that I have owned my share of 4WD's. Suzuki Samuri, Mitsubishi Montero, Toyota Pickup. I have off-roaded with all of them and they we also my daily driver, 70 miles a day on the highway. None of these 4WD's were great at off-roading for different reasons, lack of power, wimpy gearing, etc. Nor were they comfortable daily drivers. After owning my D90 for six months, driving it every day and doing some serious off roading almost every weekend I know I made the right choice. The Land Rover is by far the finest, most rugged, best built 4WD you can get your hands on, period! I guess by now you can tell I'm happy with my purchase and have had only a few minor problems, none mechanical. Here are the the additions that I've made to my D90 so far: 1) Superwinch Husky8 winch/heavy duty bumper as used on the Camel Trophy D110's. The solenoids and remote connector have been relocated under the driver seat. This keeps out water, mud, salt etc. 2) ARB/Old Man Emu Heavy Duty suspension. After installing the winch/bumper combo my front end dropped about 1.5" and I could feel the difference in handling due to the extra weight. Going to LR heavy duty front springs and gas shocks was an option, but the OME suspension was the same price. It also gave me the steering stabilizer, 1.5" lift, and approx. 3" of extra wheel travel. The new ride is smoother and more controlled. 3) ARB Air Lockers front and rear. The D90 goes just about anywhere stock, but with the air lockers you can climb those STEEP hills that are to rough to use any momentum. In lo range, second gear you can climb just about anything and never spin a tire. I do a lot of rock crawling and the lockers are great when you keep lifting wheels off of the ground. I also prefer the option of locking and unlocking the diff's as I choose. Back on the road you have regular open diff's. A great advantage, no extra wear and tear on tires, and gas mileage is unaffected. The next things I want to do is to add the full rear safari cage and full soft top. This brings me to the questions I would like to ask: 1) I would like some opinions on rear seats. I am not to thrilled with the dealer rear seat. No easy access and huge brackets bolted to the floor when removed. How are the LR inward facing jump seats? Access looks better and they would fold up and out of the way with out removal. Are they fairly comfortable. I rarely carry passengers and would use these seats more for family trail rides. 2) Anyone have any solutions for carying a hi-lift jack, shovel, etc. securely? I am thinking of fabricating a rack that would bolt onto the spare tire carrier and could be removed. I don't like the idea of a roof rack. Sorry for the long winded post and thanks in advance for any info, Barnett Childress. EMAIL Barnett Childress@EMC@eng@hop1.com 1995 D90 still unnamed. P.S. I wave and pull over! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 30 08:17:52 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:17:52 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Alan Smedley asks: > Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. I have recieved some comments and/or answers to items directly from others and I have had some replies which have been posted to the LRO Digest. I would have thought the purpose of the digest was to "Share" information not just to get started with what becomes direct messaging to a limited few. Where the subject matter of of mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and the > person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? FWIW I try to use replies to the list only for things that I think will be of general interest to the list (yeh, people, I know I fail in that sometimes). I also try to include only that portion of the original message that is relevant, for two reasons; one, to save bandwidth and help out people that have to pay to download their mail, and two, because the Major truncates messages if there are too many comment marks. I usually indicate when I've deleted a part, "snip". PLEASE only reply to the list or the person, not both. They obviously will see your reply when it's distributed and double replies clutter the mailboxes of those of us who get a lot of mail. The exception would be, in my opinion, when the person requesting info is a digest subscriber and wants the info soonest, but you think it will benefit the list also. Well, those are my own personal guidelines. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Jonathan Seely Thu Nov 30 07:09:10 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:09:10 -0800 From: Jonathan Seely Subject: Defender 110 sunroof leak This probably isn't a real big problem but it has me stumped. I have a '93 North Americam Spec. Defender 110, it's great for my uses. However recently I have had problems with the very simple LR sunroof - it leaks like a sieve. Rovers North in Vermont (they installed the unit originally) has replaced the glass panel once but the leaks continue. The water SEEMS to be coming in through the rubber seal around the glass panel and not between the rubber gasket of the frame and the glass unit. I have taken out the headliner just to make sure there are no other leaks in the roof or windscreen but have not found any. Rovers North hinted that there are problems with the sunroof unit in general but would not commit to it. Has anyone else had this problem with original Land Rover sunroofs and is there a solution? I don't mind a few drips - afterall it is a Land Rover but now it's puddles Thanks for any response. Jonathan Seely jseely@ix.netcom.com From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Nov 30 10:44:28 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:28 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Leaky 110 Jonathon Seely writes "This probably isn't a real big problem but it has me stumped. I have a '93 North Americam Spec. Defender 110, it's great for my uses. However recently I have had problems with the very simple LR sunroof - it leaks like a sieve." Jeez if I were you, I would sell it. Since I live in AZ where it *almost* never rains and work out of the house (therefore not exposing it to harmful UV rays), I would be happy to take it off your hands if and only if I receive a substantial discount for the leaky sunroof. Gerry "Love my Discovery but always on the lookout for a bargain" Elam Phoenix... high today: 78 degrees From LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Thu Nov 30 10:02 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 10:02 CST From: LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Subject: D90 - Hardtop Report anyone? Living in the blowing and drifting snow of Iowa, is there anyone who has made the $2k investment in a hardtop for their Defender 90? Is it worth it? David "Snow Down My Neck" LeCompte '95 Defender 90 Waterloo, Iowa From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 95 Nov EST 1911 Date: 30 Nov 95 11:09:49 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Distributors and advancing senility.... Mine, that is...8*) While installing a new electronic ignition system in my Rover yesterday I took the time to clean, grease and otherwise spiff up my distributor. In doing so (and preparing a backup points baseplate for emergencies) I ran across an anomaly I would like an opinion on. The shaft and weights in my present distributor were marked "10 Degrees". This I can understand - means it's designed to give that much advance at full vacuum. However, the distributor I robbed the plate out of for the electronics unit has its shaft and weights marked "21 DEGREES" !?!?!?!?!?! The parts distributor was off a Series IIa. The one I'm driving on right now is ex-MG. Dumb question: is 21 degrees of advance right, and should I swap the shaft and such? Does it matter? Am I being excessively anal-retentive? Are any of you still awake? aj"Confused as usual"r From David Rosenbaum Thu Nov 30 08:43:18 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:43:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: D90 Hi-lift jack stowage Dear Barnett, Your D90 sounds great! I have the stock option rear seat and agree that you have to be nimble to get into and out of it with the full soft top on (when it's off, you can climb over sides or back). It is very easy to fold up or remove, although the floor brackets stay in place. Others have posted messages about inward facing rear seats...one of the downsides of them is somewhat limited view for passengers on long rides. (Rear seat for old Scouts (model 800) were forward facing and bolted to the wheelwell rather than the floor of the rear- I dont know if such a seat would properly fit in the back of a D90, but I could check on the dimensions and let you know....others have written about rear jeep seats. The Scout seat is heavy and doesn't fold, so it would have to be in or out). I still haven't come up with an external mount for my hi-lift jack. The jack fits very snugly from front to back along the right side of the rear floor and the stock option rear seat keeps it from moving at all. But for this to work, the footplate of the jack has to be as-is (if you have enlarged it by adding a piece of wood [so that it doesn't sink into soft track]) the jack won't fit under the seat. Best wishes, David '94 D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Nov 30 08:53:13 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:53:13 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Front license plates Shortly after I bought my 109", I arranged for custom plates (INDY 1). I swapped the rear one right away. Got around to the front on a trip east (I think it was in Nevada that I finally took the old one off the front), but didn't bother putting the custom plate on the front. It sits in the kitchen on the window sill. (One of these days, I'll move it to the miniature collection shelves.) In 5 years, never been stopped for anything in the Land Rover, let alone missing front plates. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Thu Nov 30 16:57:58 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:57:58 GMT From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Fuel injection Hi, a few days ago somebody asked about carbs for a 3.5l engine as the efi was removed for a 3.9. This sounds like a really bad idea to me. I don't know if the 3.9 takes a different efi unit (they will probably all fit all engines), but even if it was the same physical unit the mappings would be very different. The time spent on a rolling road to retune the efi brain would far outweigh the cost of sourcing a 3.9 efi unit, assuming you knew how. My suggestion is do the guy with the 3.9 a favour and take the efi unit off his hands. But what do I know?? Steve From "John B. Friedman" Sat Nov 30 11:07:15 1996 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 11:07:15 -0600 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: UK 2 carb v/8 owners--FS carb synch tool & Man pages Hello in England. I have a wonderful tool from my 60's MG and Series days for sale, a synchronizer for twin carb set ups, but as I have EFI on my Disco I can no longer use it. This tool is a glass tube with a float and mounted on a rubber gasketed metal base. You set the float to zero and then check the vacuum of first one carb and then the other to get the same degree of vacuum. Good for SU, Solex, Weber &c. I will take 25 pounds for it in English notes if you can find a way to get them here safely and mail it surface for that. Good used 60's condition. I also have all the MPI and TDI looseleaf man pages from the big factory Disco workshop manual for sale, 20.US postpaid.John Friedman From russ burns Thu Nov 30 10:20:01 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:20:01 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D90 Hi-lift jack stowage If you have the stock bumper and no brush bar, the Hi-lift jack will bolt onto the bumper using the holes for the brush bar. I use a little foam to keep the Hi-lift from scratching things. Russ Burns >I still haven't come up with an external mount for my hi-lift jack. The >jack fits very snugly from front to back along the right side of the rear [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >David >'94 D90 Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Nov 30 10:26:30 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:26:30 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Santana Trivia Some of the Santana full-length hardtops had curved back corners, with curved corner windows, even though the rear corners of the lower body were still square. The curved corner windows look to me as though they are the same ones used on the pickup cab tops on British Land-Rovers. Some Santanas had one-piece, segmented, multi-function red/amber taillamps. The militar lightweight models (made in long wheelbase too) had square-cut front wings, like the British ones, sort of, but with the wing tops up at the same height as normal rounded Land-Rover wings. The bonnet was the same curved one as on civilian Land-Rovers. The headlamps were in the fronts of the wings but were very small diameter and recessed (but still round). I seem to recall that Santana also may have done some rectangular headlamps on bonneted-control models, as well as on that nifty FC model that another netter mentioned. Some of the late-model Santanas had a type of wheel that I'd love to get my hands on. They looked like normal Series Land-Rover wheels but were slotted (fairly large round slots as I recall). Seems to me that there were about six or seven slots (another trivia question). Wish Land-Rover would have standardized that wheel (in deep off-set 6.5" width, of course). Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 30 14:20:58 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:20:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Front license plates On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > In 5 years, never been stopped for anything in the Land > Rover, let alone missing front plates. Before the 109 was safetied, I'd gone by the Quebec MoT and picked up a fist full of temporary plates (about the size of a credit card chit, flimsy paper, good for 3 days, cheap) In theory, you are supposed to put these in the back window. Since I was in wallpaper mode (gather evidence to ram the 109 through the safety despite its fitness (it did pass BTW, whether it deserved to is another matter we won't discuss)) I didn't bother to use any of these. I just threw then under the seat, in the back, generally where ever they landed. I just drove the 109 on its 1974 plates. One day while getting in the 109 (backed into a parking spot so you only saw the front end) an RCMP crusier stopped in front of me. I watched him play with his little computer and then roll the window down. He shouted to me that my plates had expired in 1974 (this was 1992). I shouted back I knew that. He looked a bit dumbfounded and then rolled up his window and drove away... :-) Guess he figured this was going to take too much time and he was going on break... From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Thu Nov 30 12:25:47 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:25:47 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: compressed air source Has anyone had any success using an overpressurized spare tire as a reservoir, suitable for getting tires up to passable road pressure after an offroad trip? I generally only need enough air to go from 22 psi to 28 psi in four tires. I wouldn't think that would take much, but I find that if I inflate my spare to 50 psi, that's barely enough to pressurize the air hose to 30 psi. I'm tempted to take the spare up to 70 psi or more. The tire tells me maximum pressure under heavy load, but of course not maximum pressure under no load. -Matt From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 30 14:25:03 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:25:03 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Santana Trivia Granville B. Pool writes: Snip > seem to recall that Santana also may have done some rectangular headlamps on > bonneted-control models, as well as on that nifty FC model that another > netter mentioned. Snip Yes, they did have the rectangular headlamps. Way back, Al Tocci at DAP offered rectangular conversion kits for British built Land Rovers. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Nov 30 13:47:17 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:47:17 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: compressed air source >Has anyone had any success using an overpressurized spare tire as a >reservoir, suitable for getting tires up to passable road pressure after an >offroad trip? (small snip) >I'm tempted to take the spare up to 70 psi or more. The tire >tells me maximum pressure under heavy load, but of course not maximum >pressure under no load. Some time ago I answered the "Isuzu" challenge and the two Isuzu drivers both did this (i.e. spare to 70 PSI) with the caution that this not be done with an old tire (one of them had suffered a spare-tire explosion). I would be careful in the desert as well. Hoever, both drivers said it was good enough to take the tires from 20 to 25 psi. After that it was time for the compressor. At least 25 PSI should get you to the first service station without much trouble. In my case, I have a little (I mean TINY) [auto] battery powered compressor that will take the tires from 25 PSI to 30 PSI in about 5 min/tire. So between the two methods you could do OK.. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 01 09:33:00 1995 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 09:33:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: compressed air source I wouldn't be keen to inflate a tire to 70psi. Particularly if the tire is sitting in the hot sun on the back of a Disco or in the rear of RR. There have been stories here in Oz of 'over inflated' tires in the rear RR's exploding and they can do an awful lot of damage. Not the sort of thing you need in the middle of Simpson desert where you are two days drive in the dry, from civilisation (if you can call Birdsville civilised) and a doctor!! - assuming you can still drive the thing. I would invest in small hand or foot pump. Cheap and safe and it'll keep you fit as well!! Or there are plenty of electric and engine driven compressors around these days. Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (under restoration) ---------- From Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Thu Nov 30 14:56:26 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:56:26 -0800 (PST) From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Subject: 5 Door 109 Safari For Sale in Vancouver, B.C. (Canada) '69 SIIa 5dr SW, Ford 289 conversion. Rear part of frame needs some work. Brakes, Clutch hydrolics need replacing. Rear springs sagging a bit. Needs exhast , muffler. Rear door frames and Firewall also have some rust. Electrics seem good. Needs a good cleaning as it has been sitting a while. I went and looked at this LRover last week. Needs a little more work than I'm able to do, but would make a good project for someone that can weld. The seller is asking $1500 which seems to me like a good price. He needs the cash for a deisel conversion he's doing on anouther 109. For $2000 of repairs you could have a nice truck. He also has a 24 Volt Warn #8000 winch and fairlead for sale for C$350. His ( Marko ) phone number is 604-731-2980 EMail at mstefano@netinfo.ubc.ca From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Nov 30 14:58:22 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:58:22 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: HiLift in a Disco...Where? I finally bought a hi-lift jack for the Disco (I'm too cheap/broke to buy the whole winch so I'm doing this piecemeal :-) and for now, I've been just tossing it in the back, just inside the door. It won't fit betwen the fenderwells in the back without taking off the top "eye", but that's an option, I suppose. Since it's very heavy, especially if it should become airborne, I'd like to secure it to the vehicle, preferably inside, so I was wondering where some other Disco drivers have stashed theirs? (OBTW, I don't have an "expedition rack"...yet) Some ideas I've had so far: -- just below the rear seat, secured on the floor in front of the seat (easy to reach, but the rear passengers may object) -- remove or rotate the top "eye" so that it fits behind the rear seat (secure but hard to reach when needed) -- secure in the back of the cargo area where I've just been laying it for now. P.S. to the Disco (or other) owners that don't have one, they are really neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear wheel's got off the ground. You can really see the "spring" travel that way!! The bad news is there isn't much of a place to jack the front. Don't even try jacking the OEM brush bar (barf!) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Nov 30 18:05:49 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 18:05:49 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Water, water everywhere... Who designed the door seals on these old SIIA's ? I just finished (can't believe it took so long, my pop riveter is all popped out!) insatalling new "sponge" all round on the trusty '66 109 Diesel. Unfortunately, the front door front seals tend to fold the wrong way when the door closes leaving half the seal hanging out in the breeze. The door seems properly adjusted and there's certainly no adjusting to be done to the seals. Talcum powder helps. Do any of you have some idea of whether the seal will eventually take a "set" and no longer cause so much aerodynamic turbulence ? Also need advice on the roof window seals. Yes, of course there's a big honkin rack in the way. The manual shows a dandy tool for this chore.Right. Any field expedient method that may be conquered by the totally clueless would be appreciated. As long as I have your undivided attention, I need rear springs sometime soon. Any spares out there needing a good home? From "Gerald" Thu Nov 30 20:16:34 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 20:16:34 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Brake squeel in Discos I learned this morning that there is a service bulletin regarding brake squeel in some cars, including my 1996 NAS Disco. Tomorrow I'll learn what difference the service makes. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Thu Nov 30 22:42:43 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:42:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Warn Winches... WTB: If anyone has a 12 volt Warn for sale, please let me know... I need one, now... thnx in advance steve _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Dec 01 00:28:14 1995 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 00:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Alan asks... > Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and > commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. ......snip........ > ....... Where the subject matter is of > mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and > the person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? - I'm on the "real-time" list. If I respond to a message, the response is sent to the sender and not the digest. I have to CC to lro@team.net to get my response to the list. I guess for the someone on the "digest" it works just the opposite. I would say that if you are sending the reply to the digest, it is not necessary to send a reply to the sender of the original message, since that person is getting a copy via the digest (or real-time list, as the case may be). Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Dec 1 01:28:01 1995 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:28:01 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Who designed the door seals on these old SIIA's ? I just finished (can't [SNIP] >Do any of you have some idea of whether the seal will eventually take a "set" >and no longer cause so much aerodynamic turbulence ? They're supposed to settle in eventually so long as you're careful about getting the seal correct when you close the door. Some hot weather helps. Of course my drivers side seal never settled in properly. Maybe I wasn't careful enough with it. Anyhow, if anyone knows a source for the "folded over" type seal material, which I'm told was originally fitted, please let me know. I'm going to redo the seals on my IIa, and would like it to "take" this time. RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Thu Nov 30 22:47:48 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:47:48 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Starter "Rebuild" (incl. rover dating) With apologies to Dale whose starter will now sympathetically fail.... In the process of doing a cleaning and brush replacement on the starter tonight I discovered a piece of stiff paper wrapped into the periphery of the interior against the "access" slots on the side. [no it wasn't orange :)] This isn't mentioned in any of the documents/manuals I've seen on the starter. I assume it was intended as an attempt at hindering the "ingress" of water. I've removed it since it was in less than pristine condition and appear to serve no effective purpose (e.g., it wasn't visibly serving to "insulate" wires or prevent contact). However, this did make me wonder, does anyone know of a reason not to seal the unit by using a light amount of gasket silicone or such around the metal ring covering the openings? Maybe someone can confirm or deny an observation. I noticed that under the LUCAS stamped into the housing are the number 09 69. I assume this is a date location that might be peripherally useful to those trying to pin down their rover ages. Am I wrong? Is this common knowledge? Cheers, Jeremy P.S. Does anyone know what the red/rusty scribble LUCAS 6 6 6 on the paper means? :) From "Steve Methley" Fri Dec 1 10:16:45 1995 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:16:45 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: UK 2 carb v/8 owners--FS carb synch tool & Man pages John kindly offers: >...I will take 25 pounds for it in English notes.... Unfortunately these can From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Sat Dec 02 01:54:53 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 01:54:53 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: 3.9L EFI Thanks for the suggestions that I have received on the different means of fueling a 3.5L V8 that was once EFI. Some of you have expresed concern over the operation of the 3.9L with the 3.5L EFI unit. At last report it was running very well and the owner was pleased with the increase in power over the 3.5L unit. If anyone is planning on doing this conversion I would point out the fact that this one was done by the Land Rover dealer in my area. You may wish to research the matter further before you begin to tear out the resident 3.5L lump. In case anyone is wondering where the 3.9L engine come from I'll tell you. Someone with deep pockets put a 5.0L Linchfield engine into a brand new RR. It went strait from the show room to the shop. The 5.0L is major $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can only dream. Andrew Howton From OscarM Sat Dec 02 19:54:39 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 19:54:39 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: 12/2 digest missing.... Someone make my weekend.... Received up to #4 of 30, would appreciate anyone forwarding the complete 12/2 digest to me. Thanks all. Oscar omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 02 05:18:54 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 05:18:54 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: FAQ ftp site A few folks have been asking if there was an ASCII version of the FAQ that could be ftp'd. Up until now, I had to say no. Now I can say yes. ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/FAQ/ In that directory are 8 files: LR_FAQ.top, LR_FAQ.intro, LR_FAQ.1, LR_FAQ.2, LR_FAQ.3, LR_FAQ.4, LR_FAQ.5, LR_FAQ.6. They correspond to the parts of the FAQ as found on the web page. The Web page will allways have the most current version as I make little updates every few days (mostly on club and vendor information). I plan on making an ASCII version about once a quarter. Also if you have any club or vendor information that I don't have, please email Dixon or myself. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From OscarM Sat Dec 02 21:38:26 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 21:38:26 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: Sightings...Rover jpgs http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/series3.jpg http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/rangy1.jpg http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/rangy2.jpg omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From BobandSueB@aol.com Sat Dec 2 10:30:47 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:30:47 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Any Santanas in US ? >I. As to Steve's query >about Santana LRs in the US, I knew of one 109" for sale in western >Mass. >last year. It sounded great on paper, but seemed expensive. Also, I >believe a fellow named Bill in Cincinnati has one that Jeff wrote up in >the RN newsletter last year. >Frank Twarog >Burlington, VT From Roger Sinasohn Sat Dec 2 10:29:23 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:29:23 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Uncle Roger scores big (GPS) and Granny was right! I am now a proud owner of a only-slightly-less-common-than-dormobiles, ever-popular Garmin GPS45! How did a poor (and I mean broke) schmuck like me finally get my hands on a GPS, after depositing huge amounts of drool in various West Marine stores, and lusting after them for years? Well, all it takes is a totally cool brother. Yep, Stan (the one I've gotten hooked on rovers) got me one for my birthday. My roommate Craig coughed up the mounting bracket, cigarette lighter adapter, and PC software to go with it. (And to be fair, the excessive gift certificate to Tower Records (to replace the 22 CD's stolen from my desk at work), TriBond game, truffles, and (coolest of all) videos of The Wrong Trousers and A Grand Day Out(? I forget the name but it's still cool) that Rachel got me was great too.) Anyway, as Granville said at the Mendocino run, the best way to spend one's 50th birthday is in the company of other LR owners. Went to lunch with a bunch of the local (Silicon Valley) LR folks (lotsa discos, a D90, 2 109's, and Bill Growl's 88" Elphino) and even had a good beer (don't tell HP!) to go with my Buffalo Burger. Then, headed out to Scotty's to play some poker, and was completely surprised by the arrival of my roommate along with my sister. (Rachel and Stan and I had gone out together.) Pizza, beer, Cake, and a gift of one of only two in existance LROA wall clocks rounded out the evening. And to boot, I even won at Poker! Wow! So anyway, anyone know of cool GPS software I should get? Thanks everyone! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Sat Dec 2 10:29:14 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:29:14 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Models > Does anybody know of a source of glue-together type Land-Rover models? I > Found 1 thru Triple C in Pennsylvania 717=854=4081 . Still looking for > other sources... Give Hobby Heaven a call. I was at my cousin's (rock star, race car builder, etc.) place for thanksgiving and took a look at one of their list of model car kits. I did see one Land Rover kit listed (Monogram 2279 -- 1981 Land Rover) at $25. (These are older kits, I think.) They also had a couple of Range Rovers. Complete info is: Hobby Heaven P.O. Box 3229 Grand Rapids, MI 49501 1-616-453-1094 Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Dec 2 17:23:50 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:50 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Models & Sources With Christmas approaching some Land Rover models and US sources: 109 Ser III Station Wagon? (have not seen) Heller 1/43 plastic kit: TC $7.95 RR 4 door? (have not seen) Aoshima 1/24 plastic kit: TC $39.00 D90 Hardtop, Britains 1/32: TC $24.95, AB $24.95 D90 Hardtop w/ trailer, Britain1/32: RN $30.00 Discovery, Britains 1/32: RN $22.50 Discovery (Police), Britains 1/32: TC $24.95, RN $25.00, AB $19.95 Discovery (Rally), Britains 1/32: RN $25.00 Range Rover, (police), Matchbox: TC $15.00 Range Rover, Solido 1/43: TC $18.00 109 Station Wag. Made in Germany, plastic assembled, great for kids: TC $19.95, AB $16.95 AB = Atlantic British 1-800-533-2210 RN = Rovers North 1-802-879-0032 TC = Triple C 1-717-854-4081 For a very complete selection of LR models in Wales: 01678 520820 Direct dial from US 011-44-1678-520820 (rem. 5 hrs ahead of EST) Note: I have no connection with any of the above. David Cockey 1960 88 II SW 1960 88 II PU From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Dec 2 17:23:43 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:43 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Series II Trivia The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the hood (bonnet)? David Cockey 1960 88 II SW 1960 88 II PU From Duncan Brown Sat Dec 02 21:31:52 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 21:31:52 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Series II trivia > What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 > Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the > hood (bonnet)? Gee, this is pretty embarassing, since my 88 is a SII and I don't know the answer right off the top of my head! I'll name everything I can think of off the top of my head: -- Funky valence panel between the front bumper and grill. Two pieces riveted together that are flatter and longer than the one I see on other Rovers. -- "Pendant" tie rod ends, i.e. the nut's on top and they hang down below the part they attach to. -- My headlights seem different than everyone else's; they stick out farther, with bigger and rounder chrome rims (I'm starting to reach here...) -- Horn button is on a stalk attached to the steering column, not in the center of the wheel. -- If it still has the original exhaust system, you can see it coming into the left wheel well and travelling under the floorboard to go under the vehicle. -- Would the optional one be the door locks? They perform their locking on the *outside* of the vehicle, with a pawl catching onto a post inside the handle pocket; the lock is attached to the handle itself. Just for good measure, mine has another feature only ever seen on SII's, and only a small number of them sent to Canada (where mine came from): one-piece doors! Kinda like the rear 2 doors of a 109 SW. One continuous piece, with the galvanized "capping" just a piece bolted to the outside, and little drain tubes coming down from the window tracks and poking out through the door skin. Duncan, whose VA license plate reads "SERIES 2" From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 02 19:08:33 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 19:08:33 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Series II Trivia In message <199512022224.RAA16751@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. > At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the > hood (bonnet)? I'll take a crack at this one. But first what did you mean by "later Series IIA"? Does later mean just that the SIIA was made after the SII, or are you differentiating between SIIs and SIIAs made after, say, 1968 when the headlights moved from the breakfast to the wings? I'll assume that you are asking the difference between the SII and early SIIAs 1.The Serial number of the SIIA has a suffix letter starting with an "A", look on the right front spring horn. 2.The Series IIA introduced the 2.25L diesel. A badge nenoting this is found on the grill, normally the lower left courner of the grill (as you face the rever from the front) 3.The steering arms (connecting the tie rod to the swivel balls) was relocated from attatching to the top of the swivel ball to attaching to the bottom of the swivel ball. 4.In Oct 1963 the headlamps were changed to a flat lenses from a convex lens design used in all previous Land From PZavaletta@aol.com Sun Dec 3 06:50:10 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:50:10 -0500 From: PZavaletta@aol.com Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? I have a '95 Range Rover County Classic with the ole squeaky steering wheel. My dealer has lubricated it once, then ordered the part fix for it, but it is on back-order. If there is a way that I can fix it myself, please respond with instructions as to where to lubricate. I remember the dealer saying something about a bushing near the firewall, but do I get to it from inside, under the wheel, or from under the hood? Also, what do I lubricate it with, pending arrival of the part fix? Thanks in advance Peter M. Zavaletta '95 White Range Rover County Classic (Winston) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 3 Dec 95 9:05:08 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Series II trivia Re: Pendant steering parts and door locks on a Series II: DUnno 'bout those, as my '64 SIIa has them also. Of course, I also have that other epitome o convenience - a Dipstick in the transmission for checking oil.....8*) Alan From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 3 07:09:05 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 07:09:05 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? John has the Christmas spirit... >Well, I just finished decorating the Rover for Christmas. 200 white lights (and plenty of duct tape) outlining the bonnet, wings, windscreen, rear door and roof, powered by a little 12VDC-to-120VAC inverter. Looks great at night, hideous in the day. .........snip......... >So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the holidays? - A few years ago, a lawyer here in town had two 109's. He was driving one around without the proper registration until stopped by the local constabulary. They gleefully wrote a number of summonses - very embarrassing since he was the city attorney at the time. He took it all in stride, parked the 109 on his front lawn, adorned it with numerous Christmas lights and wrapped it with the yellow vinyl tape that reads "Police Line - Do Not Cross"!!! A picture of it made it to the local newspaper. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 3 07:09:05 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 07:09:05 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Models & Sources David Cockey lists a few models... > >With Christmas approaching some Land Rover models and US sources: ......snip...... >AB = Atlantic British 1-800-533-2210 >RN = Rovers North 1-802-879-0032 >TC = Triple C 1-717-854-4081 - Triple C also has Land Rover books and Video Tapes. They also have a number of other plastic and metal British car models... Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From Inkornoink@aol.com Sun Dec 3 10:15:06 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:15:06 -0500 From: Inkornoink@aol.com Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? John Liu wrote" "....So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the holidays?" Yes. But not to the Grizzwald extent that you've gone to -- way to go with the family truckster! A very - Martha Stewart - esque wreath & bow dress my "breakfast" quite nicely. Created and put their by my very own live-in Martha Stewart - wanna be (and wife). Happy Holidays! Hank 1990 RR c (Moby) From BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Dec 3 11:47:42 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:47:42 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Re: S II to S IIA differences In a message dated 95-12-03 03:50:15 EST, you write: >Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:43 -0500 >Subject: Series II Trivia >The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. >At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. >What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >1960 88” II SW >1960 88” II PU HI, Here is maybe two more. The SII had different rear light lenses with little (propeller?) blades. Also the rear corners had prongs apparently for the soft top tie downs. Bob Bernard From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Sun Dec 3 08:48:25 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:48:25 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA Well here's 1: Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different features associated with this major change. Are we including the 109s/107s? Cheers, Jeremy From Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Sun Dec 3 12:09:12 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:09:12 -0500 From: Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Subject: Diesel... In reply to Bill Adams...... Glow plugs test out fine,I leave them on for at least a minute and sometimes more. The key to getting the engine started is RPMs. If it cranks fast, it starts fast (this holds true for the Volvo marine diesel in my sailboat). Therefore I think I need MORE POWER-ERGHH! Anybody have a solution to this? I wonder if two 12v batteries in parallel would work or do I simply need to get two ultra robust 6v units. HMMM. ...There is something not quite right here, and cranking it over cures the symptom not the cause. To put it into perspective, I ran a SIII diesel on a more than daily basis, through several north Finnish winters. With no engine pre-heat, no cover, the engine *always* fired the first piston stroke! This was at -30C, 10/30W in the sump, 70% glycol in the cooling system. The Finns have some superb diesel fuel up there, which may well help. But anyway... certainly the battery was a key feature, since I had problems until I ditched the 2 yr old Exide job and bolted in a local 105 AH 12V unit. It seemed as though the problem was the heat generated by the plugs, rather than cranking speed with the old battery. It usually took a while for the air to clear... you couldn't breath for the unburnt diesel fumes spewing out the pipe. The Finns wouldn't park next to the exhaust side, pretty major cleaning job if they did.... The only problem was the oil drag on the transmission and the lack of general heat production from the fearsome standard power unit. Anyhow, I expect you've checked the normal things like pump timing, starter motor/electrics, etc. etc., so yep, why not ditch the batteries and bolt in a new 12V unit. The things are consumables. (Like modern cars!) Grahame From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Dec 03 12:26:40 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Address Change Howdy folks.. Gloversville is no longer a dirt road off the Information Superhighway! A local company is providing service via a local phone call - so - I'm switching Internet service providers and I'll have a new E-Mail address. My new address is landrvr@blacdisc.com I'll be dropping the Delphi address probably by the end of December, unless I have a lot of mail problems with the new provider. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS --- landrvr@blacdisc.com From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sun Dec 03 15:34:16 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 15:34:16 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: All my troubles are Rover... Embarrassment, Ignominy, Expense !! Pulling away from a green light last night something went BANG in the driveline and the old 109 is now so much dead weight. I pushed it off to the side of the road(quite hair raising in suburban D.C. saturday night traffic) and called in a roll-off. Symptom A: no pwer to the driving wheels. Symptom B: Driveshaft does not spin with gearbox engaged (both front and rear) Symptom C: gearbox and overdrive unit shift smoothly through all gears. I'm going to survey the damage tomorrow and see just how bad it is. Any ideas and suggestions from the gallery before I get my hands dirty would be graciously recieved. From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sun Dec 03 15:40:48 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 15:40:48 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? >X-State: 3 >X-Total-length: 1731 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] > apartment this year, I guess I just needed something else to light up. >So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the > holidays? Sarah and I did a holiday decorating job on the 109 s2a. We ran multicolored lights all round and on the rack and set up the camera for a portrait. Let me tell you, the photo came out great and will be our greeting card this year. For a copy, send me an e-mail! From "John Y. Liu" Sun Dec 03 14:32:07 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 14:32:07 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Series I Sold I am advised that the Series I that I wrote about has been sold for $1,000. Don't know the details. Anyway, no point asking me for the owner's name, etc. anymore. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Dec 3 22:50:16 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 22:50:16 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: List wierdness The 12/2 list was truncated (or at least I received it that way). Message headers and footers from the Major were intact, but only 7 of 30+ messages. Any one else with this affliction or is my no-namo service proFrom karen@uni.masey.ac.nz, feldman@rentwes.org.nz, rjames@otego.ac.nz, Tue Dec 5 00:56:32 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:56:32 +1000 From: karen@uni.masey.ac.nz, feldman@rentwes.org.nz, rjames@otego.ac.nz, Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles -----> NOTE: Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request for More Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company. You will get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of the info request form below. IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY: Please make sure you return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the actual form below. If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.* This is necessary in order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that they get daily. Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* if your fax: 1. has a cover page; 2. is more than one page 3. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form 4. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NOTE: Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day, but due to thousands of inquiries coming in per week from potential new members living overseas, the easiest time to get through is Monday-Friday, 9 am - 5 pm EST (New York Time). If you have trouble getting through to their fax, just drop the below form to them via smail (airmail or first class mail). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section (with no cover page) via 1-page fax to: 718-967-1550 in the USA or via smail (airmail) to: Magazine Club Inquiry Center Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept. PO Box 990 Staten Island NY 10312-0990 Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one. :) Name: Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referral by Karen Stern. 120495-l Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* Catalogue Format Options: 1. 19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total). 2. For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to open it with your word processor. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. 3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea), ~133K. Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed. You just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as you still have to know how to deal with an attached file. It will cut your download time by 75%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. 4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with Stuffit(tm), ~114K. Can be decompressed by any computer user who has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files. This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your download time by 78%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Karen Stern and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and cut-out all the middlemen. They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my part-time software business! Please fill out the above form and carefully follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail. They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it. They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I haved moved from one country to another. They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a special list of over 295 popular titles published in the USA. They will give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular USA titles they sell. They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have clients in around 45 or 46 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge for FPH (foreign postage and handling) (on both paid and freebie subs) that varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I moved from one country to another. The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members" automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts as a new member. When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your first order) via E-mail. He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance rates are cheaper then. He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is the way to get started! They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. Sincerely, Karen Stern ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for each new person you get to join after you join! If you exceed 25 referrals, they let you use them to give away as gifts, for Christmas, Chanukah or any other occasion. Please be kind enough to mention my name when you join. I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring you. Thank you. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 4 Dec 95 7:58:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have a 5 From Easton Trevor Mon Dec 04 08:06:00 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 08:06:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Santanas in US While in Virginia for the Mid Atlantic I met a house painter who used to own a Santana. He said this was imported by a Mr Bill Dickey, a scottish refugee!, and was now back with said Mr Dickey. Anyone know of its whereabouts? Trevor Easton From Stuart Williams Mon Dec 04 08:25:00 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 08:25:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: Squeaky Wheel Fix (Short Term) >> From: PZavaletta@aol.com >> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:50:10 -0500 >> Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? Pending a trip to our dealer for the 'official' corrective action, I fixed the squeaky wheel on my '95 Disco as follows : 1) From under the hood, locate the opening in the firewall where the steering column passes through. There will be a black rubber fitting in the opening. 2) Use a cartridge-style grease gun to apply a bead of grease into the right and left sides of the narrow gap between the firewall grommet and the steering column itself. There is a recess all around the column that extends to the actual point of contact with the steering column. 3) Take a small paintbrush (I used an old 1" wide brush) and use it spread the grease around all sides of the column to ensure coverage where it's needed. That's it! Five minutes maximum. Four weeks later and I'm still squeak-free, and mine was getting to be very insistent before 'the fix', especially on colder mornings. I had already tried greasing from the driver's side of the firewall but was unsuccessful, most likely due to a steel bracket and other obstructions that were in the way. As to type of grease, I used marine-grade lithium grease that I had on hand for the steering mechanism on our sailboat. (BTW, 'sailboat' is Latin for "fiberglass-lined hole in the water into which you pour money", so 'Rover' must be a terra firma derivative!) The results have been very satisfactory; in fact the steering feels notably smoother which would seem to indicate that there was friction even when there weren't annoying squeaks ... YMMV! Good luck, Stuart Williams '95 Disco V8i "Great White" '85 LandCruiser "Old Paint" From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 4 07:33:06 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 07:33:06 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Diesel Starting Bill Adams asks: Snip > Therefore I think I need MORE POWER-ERGHH! Anybody have a solution to this? > I wonder if two 12v batteries in parallel would work or do I simply need to > get two ultra robust 6v units. HMMM. Get the two biggest 12v batteries that will fit. If you want to get fanatical about it one could be a deep cycle hooked only to your glow plugs and the other for cranking the starter, but I don't think that's really needed. Just get high reserve capacity and the highest cca you can. since it's a LR you amy want to consider truck batteries since they are designed to handle vibration better. Good luck. cough,cough, hack, hack. Man, where's all this smoke coming from? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Anthony Verriello" 04 1995 Dec GMT 1909 Date: 04 Dec 1995 09:15:09 GMT From: "Anthony Verriello" Subject: NAS D90 Hardtop [This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es): lro @ Land-Rover.Team.Net] Since I have spoken to a few LRO's who voiced an interest in hearing about my self installation and removal of my D90 hard top I thought I would take an opportunity to answer everyone in one shot in the digest....forgive me if this message does not interest you. I have a '94 NAS D90 that I bought before the hardtop was available. I was the first person to purchase the retrofit kit from the dealership when first imported and subsequently was the first person to discover that they had made no provision for locking and unlocking the rear gate. As far as the price goes, I paid $2500.00 US for mine. I think that this price is high, but it is the only show in town and the D90 is consderably warmer, quiter and more secure with it on. If you have a '94 you should also plan on buying the new lockset for the rear gate so you can open the door from the outside, this adds another $100-$200 US. Also the full safari cage is required if you don't have it...another costly add on. The top is not 100% draft and water tight. When I first had it installed, I let the dealer do it the first time, I was a little unsettled by the rain and drafts comming in. After having re-installed it myself and seeing how it all goes together I can honestly say that it could be made tight, but only if you want permanent seals and dont plan on removing it. Also I would not recommend installing it yourself the first time. Drilling and installing the riv-nuts will most likely not be worth the savings on the installation cost (6-8 hours of labor). Removing it and reinstalling the soft top is very straight foward and can easily be accomplished by two people in a few hours. Installation, the second time, also requires two people and since I just completed this last week let me give a few pointers: 1) Installation takes at least 5 hours!!! I started way too late and ran out of sunlight-really bad move. 2) Do it before it gets cold. Trying to line up all the holes in the various bits is nearly impossible & dangerous when the fiberglass is brittle from the cold. 3) Inventory your hardware first...I was missing some washers and things and it really caused problems. 4) Wires to overhead lights need to go under the top....not in the door jamb, unless you are not attatched to closing the drivers door. Trust me, you dont want to take the top off to remedy this. 5) Be patient...the instructions (yeah I know read LRO's dont need any) says things like 'one person should muscle the windshield into place under the top to make the holes line up as the other person bolts it down!!!' -- not something you want to rush 6) Follow the instructions and dont worry about the extra pieces that the instructions dont mention...obviously not important. All in all, I like the hardtop, dont mind taking it off, but wouldnt want to install it more than once a year. One person asked me if it could be removed for a day and reinstalled. NO WAY. Even if you didnt mind wasting half the day to do it, the top would not survive the repeated removal/installations. If anyone in the NY area needs to have their top installed/removed I am available...however I will need to charge twice the hourly rate of the dealership because I would simply bring it to them anyway and I need to make some money on the deal ;~)). I do offer free advice if anyone would like to contact me by email with questions. verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) NAS '94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not imply any opinion or view of my employer. From "Bill Skidmore" 4 1995 Dec -0500 1909 Date: 4 Dec 1995 09:25:31 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Sandy; As you may have noticed, there have been a number of mentions of this abomination to enable me to point the finger towards the source. Hey, Major; Any chance of reconstituting the balance of that list and retransmitting it to the list members? ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Mon, Dec 4, 1995 ------ From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 4 08:33:41 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:33:41 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have Alan asks: > Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have a 5 As usual, the return address is invalid; however, one of them is a real host, Otego University in New Zealand, but the user is not listed in their gopher directory. I have e-mailed someone at the univeristy to try and find the address of the person to whom I can send the message information. Not that I think it will do any good. Most likely they've spoofed the return address. E-mail me directly if you want info I get, if any. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Mon Dec 4 09:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:29:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Hi-Lift and Disco Bob Watson writes... >neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the >back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear >wheel's got off the ground. This seems to be a problem. One of the ways I used to use the Hi-lift on an old CJ was to raise the wheels stuck in the mud and push the vehicle off of the jack and onto a non-hole. The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. Cheers, -Christian -------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Mon Dec 4 09:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:29:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Hi-Lift and Disco Bob Watson writes... >neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the >back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear >wheel's got off the ground. This seems to be a problem. One of the ways I used to use the Hi-lift on an old CJ was to raise the wheels stuck in the mud and push the vehicle off of the jack and onto a non-hole. The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. Cheers, -Christian -------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 4 10:11:30 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:11:30 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Discovery racks There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is the carrying capacity of the your rack on the Discovery? More than the 150 lb +/- recommended? BTW: I see *tons* of stuff on top of the Camel Trophy Discoveries. I'm assuming that their racks are braced against the internal roll cages to provide more carrying strength? Can anyone in the UK with an older CT vehicle verify? Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From Ross Leidy Mon Dec 04 10:14:17 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 10:14:17 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: Spotted 95 NAS D90SW Dropped my D90 off at the dealer today for the 2nd in anticipated series of warranty service visits. They had just received their first D90SW delivered over the weekend--alpine white, very nice. Didn't have the time to stop and drool, but I hope to go back later to check it out (if it hasn't been sold by then). Now that Winter is setting-in here in N.E. Ohio, that hardtop keeps looking better and better. For now, I'm flappin' in the breeze. ______________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 #3032 From Peter Kutschera Mon Dec 4 16:30:18 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:30:18 +0100 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? Hello! John Y. Liu wrote: :) Well, I just finished decorating the Rover for Christmas. 200 white lights ..... :) Looks great at night, ... Can you post an image? Thanks, Peter Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Dec 4 15:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:49:00 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Hi-Lift and Disco On 4 Dec 95, christian (c.j.) szpilfogel wrote: > The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look > like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. I've got a 5' in the back of my landy - gives you 2' of lift :-) (more likly, it gives you 1' of lift & sinks the baseplate 1' into the mud!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From OscarM Tue Dec 05 00:01:12 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 00:01:12 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: Posting upcoming events Came across a web page, http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/4x4clubs.html, which appears to welcome postings of upcoming club events. For your info. omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Mon Dec 4 11:26:14 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:26:14 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... Whoops, looks like a made a little mistake in my query when I responded to this thread the first time. To set the record straight, I DO have "folded over" weather stripping on my IIa. It's installed with the opening in the rubber facing the opening of the doorway, and everything is fine except for the upper portion of the drivers door, where i's refused to settle in despite the constant use of tape to hold it in place. What I meant to ask was this: It is my understanding that the original door seal was made of a full round tube, not the current "half tube" (for lack of a better description) style. Can anyone confirm, or deny this? If so, does anybody know of an alternative material that's more like what I'm told was originally fitted? This is a small problem, but I'd really like to get it straightened out and I'd rather not redo the job with the same stuff if I'm just going to have the same problem. Thanks, RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 04 11:43:45 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:43:45 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Christmas Lights, Frames, Steering Relay Well, being Jewish, I wouldn't likely use christmas lights, but I am looking for a Menorah shaped aerial if anybody,s got one... In the spirit of the season however, I did help my roomate, who's Rover is languishing, stripped bare of its hydraulics, to acquire a Christmas Tree and a load of firewood. I'm sure the Rover was quite happy to be engaged in such family oriented work... the back was loaded to the hilt (tilt?, nah, hardtop.) with oak and handled it with nary a groan or grind. In fact the ride actually felt smoother! On another note, picked up a used frame on Saturday, took it to its temporary home and stripped it of all its various pieces, i.e steering relay, spring bushings(burning them out was rather neat, sort of like those "snakes" you get as a kid, just way more toxic), bump stops, brake lines, etc,. Had to whack the hell out of the relay to get it out, so I guess I need a new one. Thought about getting it rebuilt but apparently it's not worth it with BM versions going for $125 US. Also noticed one front horn has been hit and is tweaked a little towards the inside of the frame. THought about using my HI-lift to try to bend it back, any ideas? Should I not bother? Also planning to galvanise, so any tips on that are welcome and appreciated. Thanks for listening. Dave Bobeck 72 SIII "Green Car" From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Mon Dec 4 11:49:25 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 11:49:25 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: Haynes FS and a SIIa encounter 1. the SI-II-IIa Haynes repair manual, new - $18 . 2. Driving off the beach after a windsurfing session in a New Jersey island town of Seaside, saw a "perfect" SIIa pull up to a liquor store. I pulled up behind him, jumped out of the F*rd, and yelled out something about having a Landie myself. The old man didn't slow down, just said something like "yeah?" and went in to the store. So I had time to look over the Landie. Obviously, just came off the beach. Everything, inluding tires, looked of original vintage. Very well beat, undistinguishable color paint, looked like a daily fishing/liquor store driver. 109 ragtop with 4 doors? Instead of the "genuine" ragtop, an adapted blue biminy top on marine stainless tubing covered just the front seats and a couple of feet behind them. Not at all a weather proof design, barely enough to slow rain and winter air from coming in. The old man came out, holding a bottle with a bag over it. Now he was willing to talk, but only long enough to tell me that this WAS a SW, but he cut the rear tops off, and made the "biminy" ragtop himself. "The hardtops are too stuffy", he said. Tough dude! (I bet the *real* reason was that he was getting too much interference with his mobile phone :) - sorry, couldn't resist. Let me know if you want the manual. Thanks Jan From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 04 11:56:58 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:56:58 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Christmas Camouflage I was watching a show on PBS the other day, about modern camouflage techniques. One involved a LAnd-Rover 110 driving behind a cloud of smoke (must have been a diesel) which you could not see through. The next shot was the same image seen through an infrared camera, which was able to easily see right through the smoke (could be handy to have one of those onboard.) Another technique was for obscuring a dark object against a light background, by covering it with bright lights. Worked quite well, in fact it started on WWII bombers, so that the U-boat captains couldn't see 'em until it was too late. Maybe something similar could be achieved by the use of multitudes of Christmas lights, although they'd have to be white and not blinking... Just a thought Dave "too much spare time" Bobeck From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Mon Dec 4 12:05:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:05:43 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Jack All (Hi-lift) accessories? Here's a question for the experienced offroad contingent. This will become crucial to me this summer as a friend has offered me the use of his Vermont property, an old trappers cabin, for camping, fishing, and as a base of operations for some trail exploration. Getting to the property involves crossing a (hopefully low) river. What was the first thing he bought after the property? A new LWB Series II Land-Rover of course. He had a winch and was forced to use it to get up the muddy bank a couple of times. I'm still hoping to avoid such a purchase, at least for the time being. (I may decide to get a good come-along though.) At the Mid Atlantic Rally I bought myself a 48" Jackall 8000 "hi-lift" jack. In addition to allowing me to change a tire, I'd like to have the necessary hardware to use the thing as an emergency "winch" should the need arise. I already have a 25' nylon tow strap that should at least serve as a tree strap. Now I want to fully outfit the vehicle though, as it looks like it may get some serious use. I'd really like to know what people carry in their offroad kits in terms of rope, chain, blocks, shackles, etc. Please be specific in terms of sizes, quantity, grades, materials, etc. Christmas is coming, and your list may be printed out and submitted to Santa, who will probably just hand it directly to the guy at Ace Industrial Hardware. (Mom likes Lou, he doesn't talk down to her.) Also, am I correct that the Jackall needs an attachment before it can be used for pulling? Is there a guide to the various uses for Jackall/Hi-Lift jacks? Ideally, I'd like to lay out a few problems in my driveway before trying to rig something in the middle of a river. Thanks for the input. I think it will be interesting to see what various people consider necessary. And while we're talking about it, why limit ourself to pushing/pulling/lifting. Let's go all the way and talk about what makes an all-around well equipped Rover. RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Dec 4 15:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:49:00 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Hi-Lift and Disco On 4 Dec 95, christian (c.j.) szpilfogel wrote: > The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look > like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. I've got a 5' in the back of my landy - gives you 2' of lift :-) (more likly, it gives you 1' of lift & sinks the baseplate 1' into the mud!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Mon Dec 4 08:19:33 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:19:33 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty Greetings, Before I write a letter to Mr. Hughes at LRNA to bitch about the subject warranty I wanted to probe the wisdom on this digest list. The upper rear hatch on our 90 RR (the money pit)--(I'll explain the name in another post) began to rust in the lower right corner. I scheduled a local body shop to do the work. In the meantime I noticed in the Atlantic British want ads that a gentleman from Cleveland, OH., who was selling his 90 RR that he had both upper and lower tailgates replaced under the 6 Year Corrosion Warranty. I called LRNA Owner Care Dept. to ask what procedure to follow. I explained the problem and was told that the warranty covered THE ENTIRE VEHICLE, to call the LR dealer and schedule an inspection by the factory rep. The inspection done, the dealer advised the warranty would not be honored because it only covered the PAINTED surface of the vehicle. Not satisfied with that I called the rep (it took several days to actually speak to this guy) and he said the same thing even reading part of the warranty to me over the phone. He also advised that he had NEVER allowed a corrosion warranty claim. Even when I mentioned the guy from Cleveland he said maybe his dealer paid for the gate replacement because he was a good customer (yeah right). I'm asking for comments and sugestions on how to handle this situation. Anyone else had any corrosion warranty work done? TIA, Rick 90 RR(the money pit) From STEVE COX Mon Dec 4 12:33:28 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:33:28 -0500 (EST) From: STEVE COX Subject: IIA for sale in West Virginia Just a quick note to those in the DC area. Looking for that last miniute stocking stuffer? Alan Biggs is looking to sell his 1965 SIIA 88" hardtop. Good condition, asking $4,500. Call Alan at 304-822-5503, Romney, WV From Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Mon Dec 04 11:48:57 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 11:48:57 -0800 From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Subject: Headlight Guards for Disco's A recent message mentioned the enormous coat of OEM headlight replacements. I shudder at the thought of one of them taking a direct hit while overtaking some goat-roper's Fo/Chev/Dodge pick-em-up while ascending a rock strewn hill. Does anybody know of a source (preferably NA - but anywhere will do) of polycarbonate, lexan or other roost-proof material HEADLIGHT AND FOGLIGHT COVERS for Disco's (95/96 MY) ?? No tint - no BS - just CLEAR protectors. ---------------------------###----------------------------- PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters 708-696-2828 FAX: 708-698-2045 e-mail: blckhole@ripco.com ---------------------------###----------------------------- From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Mon Dec 4 09:51:57 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:51:57 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Models & Sources Just received a plastic scale model Range Rover kit (normal civilian style, not police or ambulance), made by Aoshima, from Triple C. I don't have a lot of experience with models, but I find the amount of detail astonishing. The assembly instructions for the undercarriage look like pages from a shop manual (a Japanese shop manual, anyway). -Matt From David Dodell Mon Dec 04 11:14:04 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 11:14:04 -0700 From: David Dodell Subject: Model of Discovery I am looking hard for a Britains Discovery Model in RED. I ordered one from Rover North, it arrived today in Green, and they claim they are all sold out, and are not planning on getting any more in. Rover Atlantic did not have them in stock either. Any other suggestions? David Dodell --- Internet : david@dental.stat.com WWW : http://www.stat.com/~david Telephone: +1-602-860-1121 FAX : +1-602-451-1165 From "Gerald" Mon Dec 4 13:14:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:14:43 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Discovery racks On 4 Dec 95 at 10:11, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: > There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery > in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is > the carrying capacity of the your rack on the Discovery? More than the 150 > lb +/- recommended? . . . . I asked about this a while back. Part of the issue is stability while driving with extra weight so high up. Don't know how the Camel Trophy vehicles do it. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 11:45:19 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:45:19 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. I know there are several Range Rover owners who were eagerly awaiting my completion of the new cam for my '87 RR. Well, here it is: I called several suppliers, British Pacific (BP), and Rovers West, and got some prices on cam and lifters for my RR since I (thought) had a lifter clicking. Then I called Crane Cams in Florida and was told that there were several available. From his description I selected a "mild RV cam" that was to provide more low end torque and possibly better fuel milage. Great! I thought, and at a price less than that of the suppliers. Parts come in, get installed (a GREAT deal of details left out here, but it was quite a job!) I also had the valves ground since I needed to replace a head gasket anyway. Basically, with the exception of main bearings and rings, a "new" engine. Of course, there were the usual surprises along the way, some expected (timing gear and chain worn) some not (A/C fans worn out, one was unplugged, and an A/C hose). We discovered that the "noisy lifter" was actually a combination of a worn out pushrod and rocker, and a "flat" cam lobe. (Not actually "flat" but very noticeably worn down.) Finally back together. Starts with a bit of difficulty, we brake in the cam and test drive. Seems to idle with a bit of a lope, (cool!) but doesn't seem to have any power. Like I have to floor it to even go anywhere. Something was definitely wrong!!! To make a long story short (too late) I resorted to calling Crane Cams technical support number. The guy started asking me about the compression, and lifter pre-load, when he suddenly stops and says "Wait a minute... What was that cam number?" He then tells me that that was for a non-computer vehicle and will not work with the RR. He said that all he could do was to send me out the correct one (charging to my visa card) and allow credit for the wrong one upon it's return. And the correct cam was around $85 more than the other one. Being stuck, I agreed. They rushed it out and it was installed. Now, to test drive. Smooth idle, good. .. performance (mind you, this is at 6000 foot elevation) fair. Not great, but not bad. Pretty much as it was with the old cam. We played with the timing a bit, but it never really made that much difference. I'm still going to experiment with the vacuum advance, switching it from ported vacuum to manifold vacuum to see if that makes any difference. Back in Phoenix (1200 foot level) much better than Flagstaff (6000 foot) but again, pretty much same as stock. While I would definitely say that this is not the final verdict, the preliminary verdict is: No noticeable difference. The RR does run better, but I don't know if it's the valve job, or cam. And the difference that I DO notice is so slight that I would NOT recommend changing to this cam for better performance. Again, this could change, depending on my testing with the vacuum advance. The heroes of my cam ordeal: British Pacific! (Shameless plug: great people, helpful, speedy service, reasonable prices, CALL 1-800-554-4133) They rushed extra parts to me as we came across bad things, provided the head bolt spec's (I have a book now) rushed out the 2nd set of valley pan and timing cover gaskets (to do the cam again). After a very tactful but stern letter to Crane Cams, they called me to inform me that they'll pay for the 2nd set of gaskets needed and the labor for doing the cam the 2nd time. Even though they made the initial error, they made it right as best they were able. I'd recommend them! (Now to dig up all those receipts!) I'll post more on this (cam) as I experiment with it. BTW, I used the RR to tow the 109 back from Flagstaff. On a long mountain hill, the 109 slowed to around 7-15 miles per hour (no speedometer) when towing the RR, and the RR slowed to around 30-35 when towing the 109. But, the RR was loaded with 3 kids myself and a dog, the 109 was loaded with several guns, tools, jack, and a complete turbo V6 Buick engine in the back. Disclaimer: This was my experience. Your "milage" may vary. Thanks for the bandwidth. Please feel free to e-mail of you have any questions. Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Mon Dec 4 14:08:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:08:43 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: 1970 IIA for Sale If Santa is looking to replace his Sleigh, I've got the toy he needs. I have decided to sell my 1970 IIA, which being a nice poppy red should make a wonderful replacement for Santa. It is a straight forward IIA, it has been invited to be on display for the last two years in the local mall where is ususally stands out amongst a bunch of MGAs and E types. I've owned her for 4 years and driven it daily to work for two of those years. London, Ontario is located about 2 hours north east of Detroit and 2 hours from Buffalo, New York for those of you in the States. Depending on timing and other arrangements we are still looking for a road trip over the Christmas holidays perhaps meeting 1/2 way or more. I'm asking $3000. Canadian and may go lower but I would like to take out the back seats and perhaps trade back the high ratio diffs. If is helps I think that $3000 Cnd is $2160US today. Happy Holidays Jay Kirkpatrick '55 Series I '58 Series II '70 Series IIA jkirkpat@acs.ryerson.ca From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Mon Dec 4 14:22:04 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:22:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: 88 RoofRacks... Howdy all, does anyone have a good source for aftermarket full length roof racks for a S.III 88", relatively cheaply? By that I mean not Rovers North pricing... thnx in advance, steve _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From "Gerald" Mon Dec 4 14:47:45 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:47:45 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Headlight Guards for Disco's On 4 Dec 95 at 11:48, Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY wrote: > Does anybody know of a source (preferably NA - but anywhere will do) > of polycarbonate, lexan or other roost-proof material HEADLIGHT AND > FOGLIGHT COVERS for Disco's (95/96 MY) ?? The U.K. Discovery accessory catalog has clear headlight protecters. Don't recall what they are made off. Don't have catalog with me to give part number. Do U.K. Disco's have differently shaped headlights? If not these might work. I like them better than the metal grids. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From 04 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 04 Dec 95 16:07:36 EST From: Subject: Roof Racks Land Rover Owners are lucky in having so many companies catering to our needs (whims?) when it come to roof racks. Brownchurch, Bearmarch, Land Rover's own equipment etc. Over here in the USA we have some but not all of the products. Have any of you inspected or bought the LiteRacs roof rack? I'm interested in any comments good bad or ugly on quality of construction, design, problems encountered in use etc. While I have no plans to mount the unit permanently on the vehicle I would like to be able to mount spots on the rack CT/La Ruta Maya style. And while we're at it please comment on any other roof rack products. Thanks Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com Brit in Boston 95 Discovery I wave and go off road. From "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Mon Dec 04 13:38:39 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 13:38:39 PST From: "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Subject: compressed air source hello all! not recommended (by me), but submitted as food for thought; one idea i saw for air pressure for off roading involved a custom bumper (of the 'tube' type) fitted w/ a connector for an air hose. seems the chap had a custom bumper made with a tube as if an air pressure vessel, and simply pumped it up @ the service station when convenient before air'ed-down off roading, plugging the hose into the bumper to re-air when returning to pavement. very convenient, but i'd wouldn't want to be around (spotting?) were he to slip into something solid whilst under full pressure. don't remember how much pressure he used, but the air volume was apparently adequate for airing up 4 slightly larger than average tires. this guy was the sort that lived out in the Sierras where arrow-hunted bear meat is still considered a staple (only in season, of course, Mr. warden!), not the sort to be concerned about trifles like vehicular regulations and the such, so i wouldn't dare speak for the legalities of driving public highways with a compressed air cylinder for a bumper... (i know even SCUBA tanks are regulated by our Dept. of Motor Vehicles as it's assumed they will be transported by auto.) ciaou, e From Karim El-Fishawy Mon Dec 04 14:22:30 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 14:22:30 -0800 From: Karim El-Fishawy Subject: Buying or Selling a used Land Rover? Just wanted to let people know about a great service on the Web that makes buying and selling used Land Rovers a snap. Classifieds2000 (http://www.Classifieds2000.com) is a free public service that actually does your shopping for you. You simply specify the type of Land Rover you are looking for (including model, year, price range, mileage, body style, transmission...) and every time another user inputs a Land Rover onto the system meeting your criteria you are notified via email. Every morning you will have a brand new listing of Land Rovers matching your search criteria. The feature in Classifieds2000 is called "Cool-Notify" and it is actually a really neat way to shop. Plus, if you are selling your car, you can list your ad for free on Classifieds2000. http://www.classifieds2000.com | _____ | ___/__|__\__| (__ ______ __)= ooo ______(O)_____(O)________ ------- End of Forwarded Message From m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Mon Dec 4 18:21:35 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:21:35 -0500 (EST) From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Subject: 67 IIA for Sale in Tennessee I was delighted to learn of two new Series Land Rovers in my fair city of Knoxville, Tennessee USA last week. This brings the grand total up to six in a town of that's the third largest in the state. Unfortunately one of these new found local Rovers is for sale. The owner just finished restoring it, and then decided to go back to medical school. No time and no money for him for a few years, so the Rover has to go. It's a '67 IIA with only 38,152 original miles. Seems it was bought new by a Texas oil man for his wife, and she didn't ever get the knack of the gear shifting. The Rover was stored in a barn and only used occasionally by the husband to check on his wells. The current owner says when he picked it up, the inside of the left front wing was coated in old crude. Frame is said to be perfect, and interior is original in great shape. The current owner repainted it (Limestone over Marine Blue) and rebuilt the brakes, etc. Asking price is a pretty steep $13,500. Could be a good opportunity for someone who wants a Series Rover that's "ready to go", I guess. Owner's name is Carl Wheeler, phone number 423-522-0619. All standard disclaimers apply. I haven't seen this truck, and only have talked to the owner once, but if somebody is serious about buying it, I would be willing to go check it out and offer an opinion before you travel. YMMV. Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 1989 RR BT From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 16:31:33 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 16:31:33 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Horror story FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Horror story John writes (in reference to my cam changing post.) ========================================================================= Reply-To: johannes@uiuc.edu Thast was an amazing story indeed. So you had to pull everything to get that cam in and out twice? Aaargh. I have a new Disco and am curious about what sort of milage you had on your RR engine when you had this worn lifter and lobe problem? What was your oil changing pattern like. Was the inside pretty clean? I am a 2500 mile changer and am just curious about what I can look forward to. I also plan to go to synthetic 5-50 at the next change or so. Thanks a lot, John Friedman ======================================================================== John, and others; I bought the RR about 3 months ago for $8,500. A real bargain, right? Well... As they say, "Caveat emptor". I got it for that price for several reasons, mainly, the lack of care that was very apparent. But, my desire was for a capable yet comfortable trail vehicle. The lack of wax, dry (cracking) leather seats, broken seat switches, torn carpet in the rear seat, cheapie "Audiovox" CD player, etc... didn't really bother me. My only concern was the "lifter" noise. I could tell, just by looking in the oil fill hole that it had NOT been maintained as claimed, and assumed that possibly the lifter was just plugged up. The RR has (now) 48K on the odometer, but an additional 50K on the vehicle. (Or so the story goes! The speedometer was replaced around 50K.) So, roughly 100K on a neglected engine. (Trans still looks good, as does the diff fluid.) All in all, I still think I got a good deal. I still have less than 10K into her, have added a rear Lock-Right, seat switch, (still need one) removed the front spoiler and rear spot lights (for clearance on trails) and don't have to cringe when I run into a bush, or get dinged from a rock. I'm happier this way! ;-) BTW, this RR had previously NEVER been off-road. Totally spotless undercarriage, NO rust (Arizona) no scratches or dings, (just faded, lack of wax.) New tyres. So, let that be a lesson for us all... FREQUENT OIL CHANGES! And the V8 should last a good, long time. Neglect her, and you'll most definitely regret it! To me, the 5-50 sounds like quite a large range. I'm no oil expert, but the more the "range", the more "thingies" (told you I'm no expert) that they have to add to allow it to do this, and the more "thingies", the quicker the oil breaks down. I'd rather see someone go with 20-50 rather than 5-50. I live in Phoenix (78 degrees today) where it's very mild, and I use straight 30 or 40. Maybe this isn't the best, and if not, someone please educate me. I have 2 cases of "Golden Spectrol" 20W50 motorcycle oil that I'm going to start using at my next oil change (Synthetic). Any comments on this? Please? So, everyone... change your oil!! OFTEN!!! #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Mike Dryfoos Mon Dec 4 11:10:44 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:10:44 -0800 From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: oil warning light vs. pressure gauge A question on my '71 SIIA. Is it better to believe my oil pressure warning light or my oil pressure gauge? The oil pressure warning light is coming on at idle. The oil pressure gauge installed by the previous owner, and it reads around 28-30 psi at idle. The light goes out when I increase revs to the point that the gauge reads 40 psi. Idle speed is smooth and normal. The gauge reads 50-60 psi when moving. The crankcase is full, and the oil was changed about 300 miles ago. Earlier this year I would see the warning light come on when the gauge read about 20 psi or below, I feel reasonably comfortable that the gauge is accurate. What would be causing the sensor that triggers the light to object to 30 psi at idle? From Kevan Shaw Lighting Design Mon Dec 4 23:30:11 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:30:11 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Lighting Design Subject: Oil everywhere but in the sump! I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. The local Land-Rover Gurus keep winding tape round the breather cap to no avail. The problem is longstanding, i.e. ever since I have owned the thing, the engine runs well, starts well and only shows a very little smoke at the oil filler, so I guess there is a bit of blow-by at the piston rings however it was recently compression tested and pronounced within operating limits. Anyone any ideas as to what could be a cure? Thanks, Kevan Shaw From John Brabyn Mon Dec 4 17:50:35 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. Thanks Dave for telling us all about this -- it might save us a lot of effort in the future! Much appreciated John Brabyn 89RR From TONY YATES Tue Dec 5 10:03:59 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:03:59 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Horror story OK all you oil gurus out there, here are some slippery questions (ha ha): Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? Is it OK to use in a new motor? Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||________[PAMELA]_______|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From a-robw@microsoft.com Mon Dec 4 18:15:34 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:15:34 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Hi-Lift and Disco Yea, that thought crossed my mind, too. What would be neat would be a strap or bracket or something that you could attach to the tire so you could just jack up the tire, sort of like what a tow truck uses, maybe. Another idea, I've heard of is to replace the plastic trim piece under the doors with a steel square tube and jack from the side. ---------- From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Dec 4 21:53:13 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:53:13 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: oil warning light vs. pressure gauge I'd replace the sender, or find another gague you can temporailly plumb in place of the sender and go with the majority vote. From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Dec 4 21:52:50 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:52:50 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Series II Trivia (Valuable Knowledge) Here is the collective wisdom and my analysis of the responses to: >What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 >Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the >hood (bonnet)? LR transitioned from the Series II to the IIA spec through 61 until the announcement of the IIA with the 2.25 diesel and significant changes to 2.25 petrol in late 61, so 61s with mixed features are seen. II exclusives -Valence panel between front bumper and grille - square rather than rounded on IIA & III (Duncan Brown). -Horn button on stalk, changed to steering wheel center in mid 60 (Duncan Brown). -One piece front doors - some but not all II SWs and hardtops. Im only aware of on 58 and 59, both 88 and 109 (Duncan Brown, Jeremy Bartlett). -Ventilator hinges on bulkhead - attached to lids with bolts rather than rivets. -Ventilator controls - knobs rather than levers, changed to levers in mid 60. -Inspection cover over transmission in front floor. Access panel which swings away. Used 58 -60. -Vehicle (chassis) number - on right front spring horn and plate on bulkhead. Series II first digit is 1, and no suffix letter. Fourth digit is last digit of year. Series IIA first digit is 2, have suffix letter A thru H, and no year indicator. (Ben Smith). -Optional flashers (turn signals) switch - lever on dash acc. panel for IIs with horn button on stalk. Definitive info not avail. -Pendent steering arms (located on top of swivel balls)- claimed by several sources to be II exclusive, but listed in Series IIA parts book (Duncan Brown, Ben Smith). -Taillights -various Lucas, Wipac and Sparto used. Parts book indicates change with suffix B on non-NADA, dont know when changed in NADA. Not II exclusives -Headlights with chrome rims - used in North America through 67, dropped in 63 or so elsewhere with suffix B. This often confuses trans-Atlantic visitors and owners of recent imports. -Exhaust system exits through left front wheelhouse - used on diesels thru 75, also on 6 cyl. -Door locks with external pawl and lock cylinder attached to handle - used on early IIAs through 64? -IIA diesel have diesel badge on grille. II & IIA petrol dont have badge. -Prongs welded to rear corner cappings - used through at least 68 according to parts book. Ill be glad to discuss above with anyone, and will appreciate any additional info. Remember that parts get mixed over time. David Cockey 1960 II 88 SW 1960 II 88 PU (nee hardtop) 8/10 of 1959 II 88" SW From rmodica@east.pima.edu Mon Dec 04 20:19:24 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 20:19:24 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Xmas Rovers Well, well, well. And I thought I was the only Crazy in the bunch. My front yard has my 109 outlined in 600 white lights with a lighted Santa in the driver's seat. We thought about doing it last year, but figured the neigbors would think us daft. (With three Land Rovers they prbably already do.) As soon as the lights came on several neighbors expressed delight. John's set up sounds like he can drive around all lit up. That should be something to see. On the serious side--. Last week I disconnected the battery cables in my Disco to clean off corrosion. Upon replacing the cables the radio needed rearming as expected (leave key on for one hour and reenter code), but the SRS light came on and the right hand S of the SRS blinks for a moment and then remains lit --as does the entire SRS display. Called the nearest dealer in Scottsdale (110 miles N) and asked for advice. Their reply - "Come up and have us connect you to our CDROM analyzer." "Can't you give me a hint over the phone?" "No, we have to connect you to the computer." "what about the black box codes?" "The Discos don't have a readout like the D-90s, come to our computer." Anyone have any ideas what's happened to my SRS? Rob Modica 1951 SI 80" 1960 SII109" Safari Tucson, AZ 1994 Disco 5spd "Casper" e-mail rmodica@east.pima.edu snail mail 6425 E. Hayne St. Tucson AZ 85710-4638 From a-robw@microsoft.com Mon Dec 4 20:04:09 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:04:09 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Xmas Rovers/Blinky SRS lights On the serious side--. Last week I disconnected the battery cables in my Disco to clean off corrosion. Upon replacing the cables the radio needed rearming as expected (leave key on for one hour and reenter code), but the SRS light came on and the right hand S of the SRS blinks for a moment and then remains lit --as does the entire SRS display. Called the nearest dealer in Scottsdale (110 miles N) and asked for advice. Their reply - "Come up and have us connect you to our CDROM analyzer." "Can't you give me a hint over the phone?" "No, we have to connect you to the computer." "what about the black box codes?" "The Discos don't have a readout like the D-90s, come to our computer." Anyone have any ideas what's happened to my SRS? --------- For fear of this, or other strange things, happening to mine when I've ben working on the electrical stuff, I've always jumpered the battery to the electrical buss while fiddling with the wires so that the battery is always connected to the myriad of on-board computers. Let us know what you find out. I hope it's nothing serious. Does the (is there a) display under the passenger seat say anything? From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 4 20:48:25 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:48:25 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the rain channel so there is no increase in the amount of weight you can carry. I too noticed the amount of stuff that it appeared the Camel Trophy Discoveries carried. We're probably right to assume that they can do this because the racks are mounted to the roll cages. One thing to consider too is that putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle enough to be dangerous. By the way, I got my rack at a Land Rover dealership. Word to the wise: I called around to the local dealerships to get the best price. The prices I was quoted varied by over $200. (!) Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 10:11 04.12.95 -0500, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: >There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery >in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >vehicle verify? >Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 22:06:43 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 22:06:43 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Help selecting a CB radio. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Help selecting a CB radio. I need to get a CB radio for trail runs, and need help selecting one that best suits my needs. I know NOTHING (well, very little anyway) about them. I only need it for talking to other trail members, and plan to use a 2-meter radio for longer distance (once I get my licence). Should I go with the basic $50 cobra small size, basic functions, or the larger size that has various functions for around $120? Should I get a power mike? Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? They will be used mostly in a 1987 Range Rover, but may be used in a 1971 Land Rover as well. Thanks, Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 5 15:50:13 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:50:13 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Oil.FAQ Tony asks something we've all pondered: > Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? > Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? > Is it OK to use in a new motor? > > Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary > enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Tony the best I can suggest is to read Ed Hackett's oil.faq found guess where :-) http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/OilFAQ.html Thanks to Dixon and Ben for including one. There is other predominantly commercial oil stuff kicking around, but Ed's seems to explain in language even I can understand....... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Mon Dec 4 22:14:48 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:14:48 -0700 From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Discovery racks >From the Saftey Devices Catalog: Discovery 5 Door The five door Discovery superseded the three door as the main vehicle for the Camel Trophy. Consequently the five door version of the Discovery roll cage has been developed, providing full protection of the occupants but allowing access through the rear doors. The cage is similar to the two door, with backstays moved from the conventional position to run horizontally to the 'D' posts at the rear of the vehicle to allow maximum load space. Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to be used as this bolts to the cage through the vehicle roof. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A diagonal brace can be added to the main hoop for Police specification or extreme off-road conditions. -Rick At 8:48 PM 12/4/95 -0800, John C. White, III wrote: >I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta >Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)] >>vehicle verify? >>Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 4 22:45:46 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:45:46 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Xmas Rovers/Blinky SRS lights According to the shop manual "In the event of a fault in the system the warning light will illuminate and begin modulating. The airbag diagnostic control unint logs the fault which can only be accessed using TestBook." (TestBook is a portable computer used by the mechanics. The drawing of it has what appears to be an ejected CD-ROM.) There is no indication anywhere that I can find about what might be wrong. I do notice however that there are a lot of warnings throughout this chapter. One reads, "Do not use electrical test equipment on the airbag harness or connectors. Tampering with or disconFrom Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Tue Dec 5 08:59:42 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:59:42 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Volkswagen Oilfilters Hi folks, last week, Roy Wassili doubted if the Volkswagen Oilfilter really matches the LR one. I got to the autoparts dealer again this Saturday and checked carefully again. It is really similar to that I got from the British autoparts shop. If anyone is intersted to use it, too. It's the oilfilter mounted on the newer VW diesels (nonturbo) like Golf/Rabbit and Passat. Chears, Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From "barnett childress" Tue Dec 5 7:27:41 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 7:27:41 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello All, First, could someone please send me Dec 2 & Dec 5 digests somehow I only got the first few listings. Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was told that LR drive trains are built with a lot of slop on purpose and that this is normal. A friend of mine says it sounds like ring and pinion engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN put in ARB air locker's for me. Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. If any of you other D90 owners have this sound and this is "normal" I would shure like to know! Worried and wondering! Barnett EMAIL Barnett Childress@eng@emchop1 95 D90 still unnamed From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Dec 05 08:03:11 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 08:03:11 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Barnett Childress wrote: When I let out the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. 95 D90 still unnamed -That very well could be the problem! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Dave '72 SIII From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 5 95 Dec -0500 1908 Date: 5 Dec 95 08:28:01 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual When coasting to a stop with the clutch in, my '96 NAS Disco sometimes makes a rattling sound in the drivetrain. This seems to be most noticeable after driving for half an hour or more (everything warmed up) and appears to be coming from the front axle assembly. It is related to motion, not bumps or turns. What is odd is that the first Disco I test drove made this sound as well. The salesman and I agreed something wasn't right and parked it at the service area and got another one. This one seemed fine and I now own it. After about 500 miles it started make the exact same sound. The sound only occurs when coasting to a stop and then only when speed pretty slow. Under power the sound goes away. Anyone else out there experience this? I wouldn't expect it to happen with an automatic. Given it was present in 2 different Disco's, I suppose things are as they should be. There are no other odd symptoms and otherwise the vehicle performs fine. Given only 1 out of 20 NAS Disco's have manual transmissions, I'd love to hear from some of the rest of you if you have experienced this. Mark From Ross Leidy Tue Dec 05 09:00:43 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 09:00:43 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On 12/05/95 at 07:27 AM, barnett childress penned: >Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out >the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound >when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and >possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. >Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was >told that LR drive trains are built with a lot of slop on purpose and that >this is normal. A friend of mine says it sounds like ring and pinion >engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN >put in ARB air locker's for me. I found the same thing both with my D90 the demo D90 that I drove before buying mine. It is possible to avoid the "clunk", but you really have to be gentle with the clutch; not an easy feat with the beastie. ______________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 #3032 From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 05 Dec 95 09:37:01 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Strange Noises I have a 90RR that quite often makes a loud clunk also. It seems to occur if the transmission is trying to change gears, just as I let off the accelerator. When I first heard this, I thought that my transmission or drive train was about to go. That was 60,000 miles ago. Everyone I have talked to says that this is normal, but it still makes me uncomfortable. I'm sure that part of the reason the drivetrain is so overbuilt is to help absorb some of this slop, that is designed in. I haven't noticed this problem in the SerIII. If it is doing it, I can't hear it over the whining overdrive, noisy gearbox, rattling body panels, tire noise, wind noise..... Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 05-Dec-1995 From russ burns Tue Dec 5 07:15:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:15:40 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty I have a friend who bought a used R-Rover, had it inspected, and the whole vehicle repaired. New tailgate, upper and lower, rocker panels, floor boards, almost everything except the hood.... All at no cost. Russ burns At 08:19 AM 12/4/95 -0500, RICHARD COLEMAN wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Greetings, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 42 lines)] > Rick > 90 RR(the money pit) Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Tue Dec 05 16:26:07 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:26:07 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >experienced this. >Mark Mark, I'm driving a 5speed manual gearboxed '95 Discovery and do hear these rattling noise sometimes. Especially when driving off-road and the wheels start digging. If I hit the clutch pedal fast I can hear these rattling noises. IMO this happens when the wheels suddenly stop spinning( due to hitting the clutch pedal and the high resistance of the mud/sand there still is some momentum in the drive train. I believe that this is very Roverish and therefore not abnormal. Never heard these noises on-road though! ( Have heard this noise on a lot of other LR's too !:-) ) LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Dec 5 10:33:03 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:33:03 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Racks and misc. You wrote: "Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to be used as this bolts to the cage through the vehicle roof." How many polyesters did they kill to obtain the coating? But seriously... did Safety Devices mention any pricing? I keep threatening to request a catalog but as a member of the Lazy Buggers set, I never seem to get around to it! Any futher info is appreciated... Gerry "Rack em up" Elam From "Anthony Verriello" 05 1995 Dec GMT 1910 Date: 05 Dec 1995 10:39:10 GMT From: "Anthony Verriello" Subject: D90 Engine light Has any NAS D90 owner out there experienced problems with their Engine light illuminating. Mine is on its second occurrence in 3000 Miles...last time it was a malfunction in the exhaust/emission systems. I dont mind glitches but I have to admit this one annoys me since it deprives me of the use of my beast until I can get it in for servicing. The dealership claims I can drive it for short periods like this....... Also I heard someone mention a diagnostic display on D90's???????? BTW, NAS D90 SW is a thing of beauty, Im trying to convince myself two D90s actually makes sense! verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) NAS '94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not imply any opinion or view of my employer. From David Rosenbaum Tue Dec 5 07:47:33 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:47:33 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, barnett childress wrote: >(snip) clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound > when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff. > Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was > told that D90 owners have this sound and this is "normal." Dear Barnett: The sound is common and, I believe, normal. I asked about it soon after I got my '94 and was told that it was usual by Seattle Land Rover. Also, during the "Wheels '95" gathering hosted by Seattle Land Rover last summer (great trail riding and feast!), I KNEW when I would need to clutch by the "clunk" of D-90s ahead of me, and could hear those behind me as they passed the same spot later. Best wishes, David From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 16:03:04 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 16:03:04 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RR power steering boxes All, I need to replace the power steering box on my 1988 RR. The thing used to wonder, but now it seems to be getting worse, even to the point where the wife has mentioned it ! Has anyone replaced their PSB, how long did it take, I just read an old LRO article where the guy said it took a few hours. That would seem about right, and the fact that the thing has been leaking power steering fluid for the past year, the bolt should be easy to remove ! Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 ! Mark From crash@merl.com Tue Dec 5 10:31:21 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:31:21 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Synthetic in a landie my Disco (41,000 miles and counting) has been on Mobil-1 and Castrol Syntec since the 1000-mile change. It had the head off once, for a warranty bit... the mechanic was amazed at how clean and new everything looked. "It just sparkled"... Synthetics don't turn to tar on a cold day. The engine starts much easier and oil pressure comes up much faster. Synthetics also stick to the metal better, and provide better lubrication. Synthetics handle high temperatures (i.e. bottom of the piston) much better than conventional oils. I'd be a little wary about putting synthetics into an old vehicle; synthetics, being better lubricators, tend to do several things: 1) they don't swell seals as much- which means an oil seal that _was_ marginal can quickly become an oil leak... ditto leaky gaskets. Make sure all the bolts are tight... 2) They retain pourability much better- so even a pinhole leak (insignificant with regular oil) will be a major leak with synthetic. 3) They are _much_ better detergents than regular dino-blood. An engine with lots of deposits will shed a lot of crap into the new synthetic oil in the first thousand miles or so. You *may* end up with a clogged filter, clogged intake screen, or worse (clogged oil pump and broken oil pump shaft). This isn't to say you can't switch over at 80,000 miles- I did switch a 86 Subaru Turbo 4WD with 70,000 miles from Castrol GTX (changed every 4000, I bought the car new) to Mobil-1 synthetic. The mobil-1 freed a sticking tappet and made the car start much better on cold winter days (because of the much-improved pour point). I made sure all the gasket bolts were snugged down before I switched over, and didn't have any major leakage problems. Just be careful- and you *may* want to make your first oil+filter change with synthetic about a thousand miles long, then two thousand, then five thousand (which is what I run my Mobil-1 for). This is to avoid the crapshedding factor I mentioned above. That subaru engine hadn't been neglected or allowed to foul; I don't think the same is true of your Rangie. Oh- among synthetics, there is a certain amount of "tailoring" that's done. Redline and most of the motorcycle synthetics are tailored for high-temperature racing use. Mobil-1 is tailored toward extreme cold weather/transcontinental truck use (i.e. vehicles expected to run for hundreds of thousands of miles). Castrol Syntec is somewhere in the middle, probably the equivalent of "consumer white bread". AMSoil seems to be similar to Redline but not quite as extremely aimed at the racing community. [ If you really want the numbers, someone had recently posted the actual pour-point and extreme-pressure ratings for about a hundred different oils (including the synthetics). The above is from memory. ] Right now I'm basically running synthetic lube everywhere except the grease in the U-joints (and I'll switch that over when I do my next chassis lube). Engine, transmission, transfer case, both diffs, all are the appropriate Mobil-1 lube (or Syntec- the dealer didn't have Mobil-1 in stock, but he did have Castrol Syntec so that's what's in the engine now. It was part of the service and I let it go at that). -Bill Yerazunis From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Tue Dec 5 11:26:56 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:26:56 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Hello again, I have been out of the net for about a year now but I'm back, with Rudolph.(My 109 PU). David Bobeck wrote: Also noticed one front horn >has been hit and is tweaked a little towards the inside of the frame. >THought about using my HI-lift to try to bend it back, any ideas? Should I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Dave Bobeck >72 SIII "Green Car" When I had the bodywork redone last year on Rudolph, we noticed at one point that the frame was crooked. Both front horns sort of tilted to the side. According to the shape of the wing, it looked like it had a big hit on the side. The rover drove very straight and I didn't notice anything strange in the handling (I do remember the gallons of sweat I lost when installing the new front springs,though). Anyway, we had to fix it. With chains, Hi-Lift, two big trees, a 10 pound sledgehammer and a 4 ft long 4X4 solid oak piece of wood, it was possible to get the frame as straight as new. If you want to do this kind of work, make sure that all your chains and attachment points are solid. The strengths and pressures are enormous in this situation. Try to "see" in advance how the frame or horn will react to the Hi-Lift and do'nt be afraid to use the sledgehammer. It's another way to see if your frame is solid or not!! David also asks: Also planning to galvanise, so any tips on that are welcome and >appreciated. Thanks for listening I have never galvanised a frame before, but I did have all the bits and pieces of Rudolph regalvanised last year.The place I had it done told me that they could do a frame without any problems. This, in short, is what you need to know: 1) Find a galvanising shop that has big enough "baths" for your frame 2) Check for the price. Here, in Quebec, it's about 0.75$ per pound Comes up to about 200-250$ for a frame. 3) Sandblast the frame completely. There shouldn't be any paint left anywhere on the frame. They won't galvanise a piece of metal that has 1 sq.inch of paint on it. It pollutes their acid and zinc baths. 4) leave the outer suspension bushings inside the frame. After the zinc-coating, all you have to do is to remove them (I use a rat-tail electric saw and metal chisels) 5) Make holes in the frame so that the zinc can come out easily 6) Put bolts through the holes that you do not want blocked-out 7) Remember that the zinc will give an "extra-coat" to the frame. Try to avoid having to grind or sand down in some areas (steering relay) 8) While being there, have a few bits and parts galvanised. You can basically have anything in steel galvanised. Don't have the door hinges galvanised, though, it makes a terrible job. For the different hinges and tailgate apparitus, they seize with the zinc. You have to heat them with a propane torch and work'em out slowly. 9) Rust is not important. The acid bath will dissolve it all. Remember: no paint. That's about it for the galvanising tips, from what I know, check with your galvanising shop. To all who read this until the end, I apologize for the long post. I hope that this will be helpfull. Michel Bertrand 1963 109 IIA (Rudolph) 1968 109 IIA SW-NADA (in the works) 1973 88 III 21st century project Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Tue Dec 5 09:24:14 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:24:14 -0700 From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Racks and misc. At 10:33 AM 12/5/95 -0500, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: >You wrote: "Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. >It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Any futher info is appreciated... >Gerry "Rack em up" Elam PRICES IN POUNDS: I think the cage is on the order of $669, Optional diagonal, $35, Load guard, $85, Roof Rack mounts $24. Can't find the listing for the actual roof rack. D110 Long Roof rack is listed for $427.48. Rovers North carries the Safety Devices stuff. May want to give them a call for US prices. I'll bring the catalog and price sheets to the next couple events. I'm going to try and make Berkley but have a party I have to attend later that evening so will have to see how my day goes. As far as Hollister on Sat. or Sun. Really just waiting on the weather and how I feel when I get up in the morning. I got my catalog by calling Safety Devices direct at 011 44 1353 624624. If you are in the Los Gatos neighbor hood and just want to check it out feel free to stop by. (408) 354-2931. -Rick From russ burns Tue Dec 5 08:45:57 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:45:57 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D90 Engine light My light come on when I hit a bump.... I have the dealer trying to fis this as the warranty is fading fast. With normal check engine malfunctions the code is on an LED display next to the computer. The code are listed in the service manual. I uses the check engine light as a troubleshooting tool, not "severe damage" indicator. It will detect misfire, backfire, and other anomilies. Russ Burns At 10:39 AM 12/5/95 GMT, Anthony Verriello wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Has any NAS D90 owner out there experienced problems with their Engine light [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: >The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not >imply any opinion or view of my employer. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From John Brabyn Tue Dec 5 09:49:59 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:49:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: RR power steering boxes On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > I need to replace the power steering box on my 1988 RR. The thing used to ... > Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes > from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 Mark -- where do you get the new ones for $600?? In the US they seem closer to $1000! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "John Y. Liu" Tue Dec 05 10:06:18 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:06:18 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Can Hi-Lift Be Used On Most Trucks? The current hi-lift discussion has me wondering if a hi-lift can be used on a Range Rover or Disco or other truck without the easilt accessed frame and solid steel bumper of a Land Rover (or J**p)? I also have a Ford F250 and can't see anywhere one could use a hi-lift without roaching up something pretty good. I also can't see where one could place the lifting jaw of a hi-lift on a RR or Disco without destroying a sill or sheet metal bumper. Have folks actually made much use of hi-lifts on RRs or Discos? Where do you place it? (Assuming you haven't added a bull bar or receiver.) From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1913 Date: 05 Dec 95 13:18:56 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Oil Change I am about to take my 1995 RR 4.0 SE in for its 7500 mile service.What is the wisdom of the Net regarding changing to Mobil 1 15-50wt oil. Is it too soon; will it starting leaking; is this the proper weight for Florida???? Thanks, Benjamin G. Newman Ser 11A;66 pick up:66 88" 3 dr;109 NADA wagon;95 RR From Marcus Haas Tue Dec 5 18:33:42 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:33:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Marcus Haas Subject: Recent postings about models... ...could someone post the address of Triple C? What kind of business are they specifically? Marcus. From Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Tue Dec 5 13:36:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:36:52 -0500 From: Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Subject: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Dear Kevan, Yep, sounds like bores/rings (80,000 miles if not abused) or valve guides/seals (whenever they feel like it). PLEASE do not obstruct the breather with tape!!!! backpressure will blow the main bearing seals, if nothing else... you'll have lots more oil going over the road. Why not simply construct a breather tube that goes somewhere (even to a bottle!) from the rocker cover. Did YOURS pass the Euro-regs for emmission?? Grahams From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 10:37:22 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:37:22 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: drivetrain clunking Barnett Childress wrote: > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound > when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and > possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. I hear the same thing from my (automatic) '95 Discovery's drivetrain. This occurs inevitably at low speeds when I've just begun to accelerate, i.e., when power comes on, or when I lift off on the throttle. I also assume it's normal drivetrain slop -- there are a lot of pieces whirling around underneath and they can't all fit together too tightly. BTW, my Discovery's gone in three times now for some loud creaking noise coming from the hinge corner of the rear door. Symes LR in Pasadena have tightened body mounts, removed the panel in the rear door, tightened the exhaust heat shields, etc. But there's still the metal-on-metal grinding or creaking whenever the body flexes. The techs at the dealer say they've never heard it. I suppose I need to take them for a ride some time before the rear door falls off. Anyone know of any adjustments to the hinges, seals, or latches I could do? Thanks for helping me not go mad. Off-road, of course, I have so much fun I forget all about it. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 10:41:27 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:41:27 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Discovery racks In message <199512050449.UAA12894@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta > Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > carried. We're probably right to assume that they can do this because the > racks are mounted to the roll cages. Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff up there without any damage. > One thing to consider too is that > putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle > enough to be dangerous. Yes it does and you have to be careful. No sharp turns. I found that with good shocks and new springs, a fully loaded Series 88" with, oh, about 300 lbs in the roof rack develops an uncontrolable side to side roll at about 53mph. The only way to regain control is to slow down below that speed, and the roll hits suddenly with positive feedback. You will also have to remember when off roading that on side hills, you will tend to roll over at a much smaller angle than a Rover without such loading. In the Camel Trophy, they are rarely trying to move at highway speeds so the risk is acknowledged. Besides, on the CT, you don't have much choice on how much you bring. A lot of the equipment load is mandatory. If I recall correctly, each person is allowed 60lbs for food, clothing and personal gear for the 2 week trip. (Let's see, usiung my backpacking rule of thumb, 2lb per day for food is 28 lbs, How much clothing, toiletries, etc can I cram in 32 lbs?...) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 10:46:50 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:46:50 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. Dave Brown asked: > Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? Personally I'd suggest not getting a centerload antenna that has a plastic piece conneting two metal ones. (Standard Radio Shack 3/8 wave) I've had at least 3 break on me off road. Branches love to snap them off at the plastic part. So I'd recommend using any of the one piece antennas. I've had good luch with the the Firestick types. (Mine is a 5', mounted to the rear of the roofrack, with a spring on the base of the antenna) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Tue Dec 5 15:07:23 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:07:23 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: clutch & clunk (was: re:The Land Rover Own...) Hello All, Barnett Childress writes: > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN > put in ARB air locker's for me. I have the sound just when stepping off the clutch pedal. Sounds like a bit of play in the diffs. It's not there if I get of the pedal gently, which supports the theory. I don't know if the sound is ok, but at least it's common. -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Tue Dec 5 10:54:46 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:54:46 -0900 From: abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Subject: oil opinion and cooling question Hello all, I think the benefits of synthetics depend in part on the circumstances. In extreme temperatures (hot or cold), I think it can make quite a difference. Apparently the chemical bonds in a molecule of synthetic oil help it maintain its viscosity over a far broader temperature range. Case in point; yesterday I had to add a quart to my SerIII. I had a quart of synthetic 15w-50, and a quart of regular 10w-30. Because I run synthetics, I wanted to stick with them, so in spite of the 15w-50 rating, and the fact that it is deep winter here, I went ahead with it. It was -52F at my cabin near Bearflanks (brrrr!!) when I poured it, and although it poured something like honey, it did come out of the bottle o.k. In contrast, the 10w-30 nonsynthetic was like rock candy in the bottle. Other testaments for synthetics come second hand. I have heard stories from folks who rebuild engines telling me that the few occasions they have looked at engines that have run on synthetics their whole life, they appear almost as pristine as they were at day one. Also, synthetics supposedly cling to engine parts better, making starts less traumatic - another cold weather advantage. In spite of the expense, I also use synthetic gear oil. The difference in getting all that gear oil in the Salisbury diff and transfer case moving between regular and synthetic is astounding. Another way to look at the cost difference is to consider that you need fewer oil changes with synthetic. Assuming you aren't leaking or burning too much, in which case you are always adding oil, the cost of synthetic, in the long term, is not much more than regular oil. Just be sure to keep up with changing the filter. On a different note; I have been toying with the idea of by-passing my radiator in the winter months, since it is so bloody cold here. My engine has enough trouble getting up to operating temp, why not help it out a bit? I figure the heater core will give it cooling enough. Anyway, can anybody think of a reason why this might be a poor idea. Don't worry I wouldn't forget to put it back online before spring (if spring ever comes). Later, Andrew Balser _______________ [___I___I___I___] H_____________H I______|_|______I | | | O I ___|___ I O \----{///////}----/ [----{///////}----] _____/( )###( )\_____ | o | ####### | o | | | ####### | | _______L-------J_______ [_______________________] |//|---\_/-------|\\| |//| |\\| -- -- From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Dec 5 15:11:25 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:11:25 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Series Sighting Received the Fall/Winter magazine from Acura with their new Acura SLX on the cover. (Is the SLX an Isuzu derivative?) As I was scanning the magazine (the last step before tossing it), I can across a picture of a leopard on the hood on a Series Land Rover. All that shows of the Land Rover is the hood and the area that composes the drivers seat (RHD!) along with a bit of the roof. There are several people on the roof lying down taking pictures of the leopard. (Can you say "Nice kitty cat!) The cat doesn't look amused! Actually the picture was contained in a advertisement that isn't supposed to look like an ad for a travel group offering exciting vacations. Nevertheless, it was nice of Acura to include a Land Rover in the magazine! Gerry "That's too close to a damm cat for me" Elam From Kurt Jensen Tue Dec 5 12:32:19 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Kurt Jensen Subject: Re: roof racks-handling On an interesting side note about roof racks and handling.... When I bought my 1964 109 2 door Safari this summer, I took the roof off immediately. Handling was great! It felt like I could go at almost any angle on a side slope. It never felt ready to roll, even when a brake failure caused me to rocket down a very steep hill in reverse at high speed, with a nice spin out at the bottom to avoid the Cope mobile. I know I probably would have rolled multiple times if I had had a roof on, let alone a loaded rack. I guess it's a trade off. I was compelled by cold and rain to return my roof to my vehicle (and by passengers unused to such accomodations....on 6 hour road trips...at night...in the rain.) However, it was fantastic in nice weather, and handling was unbelievable. I have no idea why more LRO's don't do it seasonaly...Is it the "lazzy bugger" thing? Do you not enjoy dirt in every pore on off-road convoys? Anywway, now that the roof is back on, and the roof rack, it feels much more tippsy, and I know those side slope spectacles would now leave my lying on my side like Eric Cope found himself at Hollister in his 109. Next summer, you guys should try the topless thing...the ultimate tanning machine! I think that easy seasonal option is one of the great things about the series vehicles! Yet at the British Car Meet in Palo Alto this year, I think DanoRosa and myself were the only topless ones! We didn't have to drive home with a foot holding the driver door open to cool off after "Paradise Lost" either. Anyone out there have opinions on why more of us don't go topless when the weather calls for it? Embarrassment? (someone might see your duct tape covered seats...modesty?) Curious Kurt On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > > One thing to consider too is that > > putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > You will also have to remember when off roading that on side hills, > you will tend to roll over at a much smaller angle than a Rover without such > loading. From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 12:49:25 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 12:49:25 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Series Sighting (Acura SLX) Gerry Elam asks: > Received the Fall/Winter magazine from Acura with their new Acura SLX on the > cover. (Is the SLX an Isuzu derivative?) Yes. According to Car and Driver (at http://www.caranddriver.com/member/curIssue/nov_95/changes.html) the SLX is just a rebadged Honda Passport, which in turn is a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 12:52:55 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 12:52:55 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Acura SLX -- correction Just now, I stupidly wrote: Yes. According to Car and Driver (at http://www.caranddriver.com/member/curIssue/nov_95/changes.html) the SLX is just a rebadged Honda Passport, which in turn is a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo. Oops, I meant a rebadged Isuzu Trooper. The Passport will only be sold by Honda. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 05 Dec 95 15:51:54 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Camel Sized Disappoinment Well Murphy's law visited me last Thursday. I was training for the upcoming US Camel Trophy trials by pacticing my rope climb when I felt something give in my upper right chest. I decided to give it a rest for a few days but by Sunday afternoon while on an orienteering run the pain was getting severe everytime I took a deep breath. A visit to my friendly Dr./ Chiropractor revealed two ribs out of place and a badly pulled or torn Rhombus muscle. This probobly is left over from a car wreck in '87. Anyway the end result is that have had to withdraw from the trials or risk further damage to my shoulder/chest. When I spoke to Tom Collins this morning he was very sympathetic and level headed in his advice. He rightly concluded that even a spot on the team was not worth possible physical damage considering my carreer as a pilot. Somebody has to pay for all the new toys I want on my Disco. Anyway thanks to all those folks who wrote me with their support ( there were quite a few). As I had optimistically figured that I would need quite a bit of time off this spring I'm going to put it to use and attend one of Lakeland Safari's off-road trips to one of 3 locations: 1.Pyrenees Mountains 2.French Alps 3.Morrocco Not having been to any of these locations before could anybody give me some opinions on which might have the best combination of off-roading, scenery, adventure? Also anybody else interested in attending? Mark (It's only a flesh wound) Ritter From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 20:57:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 20:57:52 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RRR WWW Anyone got the RRR WWW page address ? Mark From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Dec 5 16:03:03 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:03:03 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: 1990 RR All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here in NY... any comments welcomed thanks Steve 72 slll 88 From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 21:10:45 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 21:10:45 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: LAND ROVER SIGHTING All, There is a new video camera on the market, thinks it's Canon that the focus is controlled by your eye, anyway, they have a Land Rover in several of the background shots. also, this may be old, but the DSS dish has a Land Rover going over a cliff, the dog watching the TV seems sad ! Mark From Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Tue Dec 5 16:36:29 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:36:29 -0500 From: Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Subject: Re: Acura SLX -- correction According to my brother-in-law, who works for Honda/Acura, the SLX is a fully tricked out Trooper with full leather, fancy stereo, and (not like the regular Trooper) shift-on-the-fly 4WD (but still no AWD). BTW, Honda really wanted to expand its stake in Rover so they could get the rights to LR, and were quite peeved that BMW snatched Rover away from them. But for the purchase by BMW, the new Acura SLX would have been a re-badged Discovery. Martin Eglitis '94 Discovery From John_White@logistics.nonstop.com Tue Dec 5 13:39:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:39:52 -0800 From: John_White@logistics.nonstop.com Subject: I almost fainted. I saw a conniston green Discovery with an expedition roof rack, rhino bar with fog and driving lights, and five of the Camel Trophy-style steel wheels also in conniston green. It was so beautiful, I almost fainted. Other distinguishing marks: it had Colorado license plates, and did a u-turn at the corner of Union and Columbus here in San Francisco during the lunch hour today. Was it someone on one of the LRO lists? Cheers! John John C. White, III voice: +1 (415) 283-1891 Database Architect facs: +1 (415) 984-4599 NON-STOP Logistics Corporation San Francisco, California From a-robw@microsoft.com Tue Dec 5 14:12:10 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:12:10 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Incredable Disco ---------- From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Dec 5 17:57:56 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:57:56 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: External sun visors Stopped by the metal shop this morning and got the estimates for the external sun visors. The guy still had the program on disk, and I've ordered eight to be made up. These are 14 guage aluminum sheet with .090" galvanized steel brackets, shipped unpainted and CKD. Shipping costs have yet to be determined, but the visors will be sold for $85, or $75 to ROAV members. With the holidays coming up, I don't expect these will be ready until early January. If you are wondering, these are superior to the Rover originals. The metal is heavier guage, and the holes have been purposefully elongated to allow for a perfect fit, even if your windscreen is a bit "tweaked". Sturdy enough to withstand the footfalls of the neighborhood urchins who view a Rover with a roofrack as a piece of playground equipment. Reservations to the below address, and I'll advise as to UPS costs. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Tue Dec 05 14:43:03 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 14:43:03 PST From: "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. David, i'd suggest getting the best rig you can physically fit into the vehicle(s) that has Single Side Band (SSB) operation; they are generally built with better transmitter sections than their 'strictly AM' cousins as the rules allow 12 Watts on transmit using SSB (vs. 4 Watts on AM). the receiver sections are usually equally superior. as you'll probably learn, SSB works better @ 11 Meters (CB frequencies) in mountainous or hilly areas, valleys, canyons; exactly the sort of places we are likely to go to play! even if your friends don't have SSB rigs, you can still use yours on AM, with generally noticeable improvement (over AM-only rigs) in the signal reception, unwanted (adjacent) signal rejection, and audio quality characteristics. with regard to the advice given by others here concerning antennae's; i'd go along strongly with the recommendation that you give serious consideration to impact vulnerability/survivability when making your selection! although the relatively impervious nature of the 102" Stainless Steel whip is desirable and its length would help your range in & out of those deep, dark gorges we traverse, not many of your fellow wheelers/spotters will appreciate having that thing flying around in the rougher sections! (and no matter how you try to attach it, some will say, it WILL come loose somewhere off-roading...). a shorter antennae would be nice in this regard, but as soon as you start lowering the tip of the antennae towards the ground, your range decreases, so you need to settle on a compromise that suits you. garage clearance, aesthetics, and other things will all figure into the picture, as will which vehicle your going to use it on. ever try to get that nice magnet-mount to stick to an aluminum roof? ;-) you might also consider that a 5/8 wave(length) ant will need a good ground plane to function properly, maybe even at all, (read: steel roof or BIG flat roof rack!) whereas a 1/4 wave will not. (i think a 1/2 wave works like the 1/4 in this regard, but i don't remember for sure; will somebody on the list please fill in here? thanks...) power mikes; don't do it! not only are most of them ineffective, unnecessary, and sometimes even detrimental. on the better(/SSB) rigs, you shouldn't need one if the radio is properly tuned. you also add in the distinct possibility that the battery in the mic could (read: will,) fail, rendering an otherwise perfectly good radio inoperative. (nice feature, eh? NOW how much would you pay?!) so, you say, carry an extra battery, right? yeah sure, IF you can find one; many of the power mics don't use readily available standard batteries, and it'll probably be dead too by the time you pull it out of your glove box... carry an extra mic? O.K., if you want to, (and some people do, since mic/cord failures aren't entirely unknown,) but i'll stick to the stock mic in a good radio. which brings me to the final point; no mater what rig you get, get a good radio 'doctor' if you can find one in your area. "golden screwdriver" status not necessary; what you need is what they'll probably call "peaking and tweaking". it seems every assembly line is a little different, and the performance characteristics of the final sum of any collection of components will vary from unit to unit, but almost every new radio i've seen on a scope was not operating to it's full potential, and sometimes it wasn't even close! getting it tuned can sometimes yield dramatic results, depending on how far out it is to start with. no, this shouldn't be necessary, but life in manufacturing being what it is in these cost-of-assembly oriented times, it's a reality. BTW, 12 Watts on 11 Meter SSB will probably work farther for you in the mountains and canyons than any amount of power on 2 Meter FM simplex; the VHF characteristics of 2M won't likely allow you more than line-of-sight contact... of course if you're using the Amateur advantage of repeaters, that's cheating, and all bets with regards to range are off! i hope some of this helps, and welcome you (and others) to contact me directly (or otherwise) if you have any questions. 73, and happy trails, e N6ZES > Subject: Help selecting a CB radio. > Author: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV at smtpgateway [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)] > |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. > | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} From benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Tue Dec 5 18:32:23 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:32:23 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Subject: Triple C address Here is the address for Triple C Motor 1908 Orange Street York, PA 17404 717-854-4081 Fax: 717-854-6706 They sell a variety of accessories for MG, Lotus, Jag, Triumph, etc. and Land Rover. From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 16:17:37 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:17:37 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: 1990 RR ASFCO@aol.com (couldn't find his real name) wrote: > All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. > anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book > value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here > in NY... any comments welcomed thanks According to Edmund's, the current wholesale for a 1990 RR is $16800. Retail is $20125. For a County, you're supposed to add about $600. Mileage will bring that down some -- normal mileage is supposed to be 10000 per year. This came from gopher://www.dc.enews.com:70/00/showroom/edmunds/usedmake/landrove/1990/rangerov%09+Text/plain -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black and tan with brush scratches Discovery From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 16:56:24 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:56:24 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: RRR WWW Mark Talbot asked: > Anyone got the RRR WWW page address ? http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/index.html It's listed in the International Section of the FAQ club section (http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.internat.html) with the Range Rover Register listing. Lloyd's Web page (http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/) should also have a listing. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1921 Date: 05 Dec 95 21:12:58 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Diesel starting In addition to a good battery,a good earth link is advisable for starting a diesel, the regular battery earth lead goes to the frame, usually corroded. A useful mod is to run an additional earth lead to the engine from the batery, or better still to the starter motor itself. After a sluggish start feel all the cable joints in the starting circuit, any hot joints are asign of high resstance caused by a dirty or poor connection. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Wed Dec 6 04:24:43 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 04:24:43 +0100 From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Subject: Discovery/Camel roof-racks Gerry asks in the digest of 05.12. about discovery racks..... Yes your guess is correct. As I was glad to drive some of these vehicles at the german pre-selection I can confirm that they are attached to the very strong internal rollcage. It is even mentioned as safety advice in " The Land Rover Experience " written by Tom Sheppard, published by Land Rover (STC 8545.AA) in the chapter about Loading and weight distribution ( this book is a nice x-mas gift). Greetings Kurt From jpappa01@interserv.com Tue Dec 5 19:28:41 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 19:28:41 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D90 SW update Metro West has received 7 D90 Station Wagons. I posted some stuff the other day when the earth stood still - it disappeared into the now-infamous *non* digest from the other day. Also, what is this magazine ultrawide bandwidth chomper! Why do I feel the urge to zap them into obligatory hell? Three white, two blue, and two green. They all look great. Lowest number was an Arles Blue one with SW #005/500! Methinks that I'm going to pop sliders into my `glass hardtop and will report on same. cheerz Jim - intolerant of non-LRO's - can't help it - I'm obsessed! Or possessed... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Inkornoink@aol.com Tue Dec 5 22:57:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:57:40 -0500 From: Inkornoink@aol.com Subject: Re: 1990 RR In a message dated 95-12-05 16:26:42 EST, ASFCO@aol.com writes: SNIP:> All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here in NY... any comments welcomed thanks It's quite low...I was offered $22,000 for mine one week ago.... If the truck's in good shape, snatch it up....and consider selling it for more! From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Wed Dec 6 16:46:21 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 16:46:21 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Michel said that galvanising is $0.75 per POUND in Canada. In Australia it is approx $AUD 0.80 per KILOGRAM which seems like a bargain. Australian and Canadian Dollars are approx equal. My only extra advice is that galvanising can tend to warp or twist things, so be prepared for this; not to the point of unservicability though. I'm a big fan of galvanising. Why don't LR galvanise the firewall panels? Australian army 110's have gal chassis. I've got to get around to blasting and galvanising my bullbar. James Carley '85 110 County 3.9D From "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Wed Dec 6 07:57:54 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:57:54 GMT+200 From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Subject: LR trip over Afrika Hi fellow Rovers, If you have got WWW access have a look at the following URL. http://gnn.com/gnn/meta/travel/features/lovedu/index.html It is about a trip over Afrika in a Blue Land Rover and the series is at about Chapter 4 now. Very neat, good writing style, what a pleasure to find an article like this on the Net. Greetings Gawie Gawie van Blerk --------------------------------------------------------------- Internet : A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za (work) : gawie@pixie.co.za (home) URL : http://www.pix.za/bloemfontein/gawie.html Tel : 27+51+404-2421 --------------------------------------------------------------- From Roger Sinasohn Tue Dec 5 22:43:45 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:43:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA > Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of > these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different > features associated with this major change. Nope. My '59 109" has 2-piece doors. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Dec 5 22:45:39 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:45:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? Well, I've got year-end-holiday-celebration-of-your-choice (I like the pagan festivals of the winter solstice, myself) lights on my roof rack. And I thought I was being so original! Oh well. I've got the red ones on, if I can find time, I'll get the blue ones up too. I was also going to do a holiday card, but I was thinking of getting some slow film, and take a picture of the vehicle moving for that liney effect. But I don't know enough about photography to get it right. Well, I'll try, it's amazing what these little disposable cameras can do... BTW, some folks got to see my LR with lights in Mt View last week. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 5 23:12:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:12:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks Clamped on is more accurate a description of how the expedition rack attaches. I have a sneaking suspicion that the loads LRNA says a Discovery can carry on its roof are probably low to satisfy LRNA's lawyers. According to the docs, the maximum roof rack load is 110 lbs (!), but I've been on my rack (175 lbs) and it didn't collapse. One thing that must come into play on the stability side is that the suspension on Series Rovers is leaf versus a Discovery's spring, no? Sometime I'll have to load up my rack with, oh, 300-400 lbs just to find out at what speed the Discovery becomes unstable. I've had my unloaded Disco up to 85 mph on Hwy 280 without breathing hard, and would find 53 mph annoying were I limited to that speed (I tend to become a bit Type A). Cheers! John At 10:41 05.12.95 -0800, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: >In message <199512050449.UAA12894@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: >> I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >with good shocks and new springs, a fully loaded Series 88" with, oh, about 300 >lbs in the roof rack develops an uncontrolable side to side roll at about 53mph. >The only way to regain control is to slow down below that speed, and the roll >hits suddenly with positive feedback. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] >"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry > from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the > Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 5 23:12:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:12:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks Clamped on is more accurate a description of how the expedition rack attaches. I have a sneaking susFrom "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1902 Date: 06 Dec 95 02:54:07 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... > door seal was made of a full round tube, not the current "half tube" (for > lack of a better description) style. Can anyone confirm, or deny this? According to my observations and knowledge it's the other way around. All Series models have the "half tube" or, er, 'thick lip' seals which a) never seal properly and b) are ridiculously expensive, and later on the 110 and all later models they put the round, in some cases (later always) 'one-piece' seals. Tell you what I did on the S.III 109: I was so fed up with having a wet left arm and wet lap and feet, plus water dribbling from the dash when driving through rain that one fine summer day I tore out the @!#%& lips, flexed the seal channels all around down to size (very hard, filthy work..) and simply stuck on the one-piece round front door seals from a 110. (While I was at it and in a spending mood I also fitted the full-alu sliding window front door tops of the 110). No more draught, no more water! ... the rear doors? Hmm - not my problem if the passengers get wet, is it? Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1902 Date: 06 Dec 95 02:55:16 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty > gentleman from Cleveland, OH., who was selling his > 90 RR that he had both upper and lower tailgates > replaced under the 6 Year Corrosion Warranty. ... I find it quite bold for a dealer to issue a 6-year corrosion warranty on a RR. Normally you can expect rust to appear on the upper tailgate whithin less than two years if you're a non-garaged daily driver, and this is an age-old phenomenon. In that case he might as well give you a voucher for a complete tailgate replacement on purchase of the vehicle. Typically you get 6 year *full vehicle* corrosion warranties (as opposed to warranties covering the 'essential supporting bodywork') on vehicles like top-model Porsches with fully galvanized/carbon chassis - but a RR ? :-/ No dealer familiar with the RR and in his good sense would cover a RR with a _6_ year full corrosion warranty unless he already intends to wiggle his way out one way or the other, or wants to hook the customer under all circumstances, even if it means having to throw in a tailgate after 4 years... Stefan From kessels.bill%ott01%c14a#@ey.geis.com Wed Dec 6 11:39:00 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 11:39:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels.bill%ott01%c14a#@ey.geis.com Subject: 94 D90 Misc. (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions Catching up on a few days of digests: Re: D90 fiberglass hardtop--I think mine is great. I may even keep it on next summer--it makes highway driving almost pleasant, and does not leak. It also looks very sharp. I think it is worth the money if you are planning to keep the D90 for a long time (although, I wonder how long the top will last...). I get the installation done at the garage. It usually takes a couple of guys there a couple of hours to do it, and I feel that is money well spent. Re: Roofracks. There has been a recent thread on Disco roof racks. Does anyone have the D90 LRNA/Thule roof rack system. I saw it advertised in the Rovers North Christmas flyer--it attaches to the roll cage above the doors, a novel idea. I am wondering if they will continue to make this base unit much longer, given the lack of production of the D90 in the future. I.e. should buy one soon, or if there are other solutions which work based on more readily available racks. Hi Lift jack: I think I will put mine across the back of the front seats, and lash it down to the lower support for the roll cage. I also use that support to hold a fire extinguisher and a shovel. It fits with a couple of inches to spare. Bill Kessels, kesselsb@ey.geis.com 94 D90 #CDN 67 (P.S. Does anybody know how many Canadian D90's were imported?) From Mike Rooth Wed Dec 6 12:01:26 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 12:01:26 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Grafton's Gallops I've received a postcard from young Andrew,postmarked Jerusalem(I think) dated 22 11 95.It shows an aerial shot of the Judean desert.Andy says they have driven across both this and the Negev.He also says they didnt mean to,but it seemed like a good idea at the time. In the Negev,it seems that the Land Rovers drank 50L of fuel each,took three days to cover 80km. Nothing has bust,yet,they've had trouble with one Hardy Spicer joint,and there is some bad language (wherever did he learn *that*?)about the headlamp switches. Route is:Belgium,Germany,Austria,Hungary,Romania, Bulgaria,Greece,Israel.Next step into Sinai,then Egypt,Djibouti or Mombasa on a boat to get around Sudan. Message for Al Richer,the XCL's work best at 60 rear 45 front on road,full load,50 rear 36 front off road full load. I hear any more,I'll let you know. Cheers Mike Rooth PS They dont hang about,do they? :wq From Lloyd Allison Wed Dec 6 23:05:52 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:05:52 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: 18 days to Christmas if you come across any new LR toys could you plsz send me the details for a toy web page: http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Toys/index.html (couple of new fire-engine pictures on the fire engine page too) Lloyd From "Adam Messer" Wed Dec 6 8:19:27 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 8:19:27 -30000 From: "Adam Messer" Subject: Disco roof rack capacity Be careful when wieghting up your Disco roof rack. We had jerricans, a propane tank, extra water, etc on top. Over the bumpy roads the rack deformed slightly--and mashed the rain channels. The enamel (or whatever) over the welds has cracked and the rack is now rusting a little. From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 6 08:04:10 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:04:10 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Kevan Shaw writes: > I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. The local Land-Rover Gurus keep winding tape round the breather cap > to no avail. Sounds like the same "mechanic" that adds stuff to brake fluid to make the seals swell to "cure" poor brakes. > The problem is longstanding, i.e. ever since I have owned the thing, the engine runs well, starts well and only shows a very little smoke at the oil filler, so I guess there is a bit of blow-by at the piston rings however it was recently compression tested and pronounced > within operating limits. Anyone any ideas as to what could be a cure? Proper ring to bore clearance is the only cure I can think of. Perhaps the compression test was done under a condition that shows it fine, but under other operating conditons blow by occurs. Good luck. I'd be interested in what cures it. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Wed Dec 06 15:04:14 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 15:04:14 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: X-mas and New Year ################################################################################ /\ |||||||| A /0\\ | O O | \\\\//// merry 0//\\0 | \ | \\\/// christmas ///0\\ | -__- | || and 0///\\\0 |||||||| ||O a //0/\\\\ | ||| |-----|o happy 0////\0\\0 | || |----|o new year ///0/\\\\\ | | || 0 || 0 | | || || | | || ----/\---- |______| || /_\ /_\ || ____ | _____/|__|| \\\\\ |\ |\ | /(-8| \ | \\\\\\\\ _| |_ _| |_ ____|_/[]__|__\___|# |8 \\\\\\\\\\\\ |] __=| | __ |# 8|-8---\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |\ [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|]_o8888888888888o888---//////////////// _| |_ ( o ) ( o ) | //////////// //////// |\ |\ ///// _| |_ _| |__ ################################################################################ Roy "waiting for Santana Claus" Wassili P.S. Santana's are named this way cause Santa used to drive these things way before he switched to red nosed Rudolph and made this na..na..na.. noise trying to get the thing started in the freezing cold! :-D P.P.S. I know it's a bit early to send x-mas cards, but just couldn't resist! From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:11:56 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:11:56 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual Mark, Yes, Yes, i've had that noise too in my SIII SWB Diesel. In my case the universal joints and moveable joint on the front prop shaft where completely buggered. I had the propshaft re-built and BALANCED and the problem went away... Maybe the prop shaft only needs to be balanced, If it is not balanced it will also cause a vibration/noise even if the uj's and moveable joint are perfect. Cheers Brian Cotton Land Rover Owners Club of SOUTH AFRICA SIII 2.5 LWB TURBO INTERCOOLED DIESEL CAMPER SIII 2.25 SWB DIESEL (E HEADER + BIG BORE EXHAUST) From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:12:06 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:12:06 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: Hi-lift Gents and La(n)dies, Here in SA we have two different goodies which we use to Hi-lift Defenders, Discos and RRs out of nasty places: The first goodie is a length of tubing with a square bit which fits over the jaw of the hi-lift and slots into the holes in the rear crossmember/bumper of the Defender. The second goodie is a square-ish bit which fits on the hi-lift with a short length of chain and a hook which one hooks under the bumper (on the towing eye I think ? :-] ) I think the LRO magazine has some pictures, if you need more info mail me. Brian Cotton Land Rover Owner's Club of SOUTH AFRICA SIII LWB TURBO INTERCOOLED DIESEL CAMPER SIII SWB 2.25 DIESEL From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:11:47 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:11:47 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster David, An extremely important thing to do prior to galvanising a chassis is to clean the inside out VERY VERY VERY well. If this is not done then the bits of gunge and sand (gravel and sand blasting sand) living in the hidden corners will get soaked in acid and when galvanised, these acid blobs get covered by zinc and start rusting away happily. On the older vehicles it sometimes happens that the cross-member under the gearbox blows up or sometimes explodes. Exploding is very rere but the bulging is about 40 %, it is not serious though. Have fun Brian Cotton Land Rover Owners Club of South Africa LR SIII 2.5l intercooled Turbo Diesel safari camper LR SIII 2.25 Diesel (E-Header + big bore) Goes like a bomb) bcotton@lia.co.za From russ burns Wed Dec 6 06:31:34 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 06:31:34 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty At 02:55 AM 12/6/95 EST, Stefan R. Jacob wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Stefan > The 6 year corrosion warrenty is from LRNA. In Detroit they are very good about honoring it. My frend just had 6K worth of work done under warranty. It is nice to see someone stand by their product for a change. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Ray Harder Wed Dec 6 08:45:37 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:45:37 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: buying land rovers long distance. Made a couple of telephone calls last night -- I am looking for a 58-68 SIIa and some of the old hemming's ads sounded interesting. But it made me think and I am requesting some net-wisdom here. What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). -- OK, one thing is to have a fairly complete list of what is important to you and what is not. And have an idea what certain features might be worth if presence (or absent). -- I understand that sometimes you might have to make the trip, see the truck, and be able to walk away because the vehicle was not represented correctly -- probably need to have that understanding clear before making the trip. -- my first instinct is to start haggling over price, but how do you do that when you haven't even seen the truck. -- i've heard stories where people have sent money and never seen it again -- this was told in the vein of used parts, but it could be true for whole vehicles, too. how are deposits handled. -- photos can be helpful -- a video, even better. -- buying from the LR restoration houses that have cropped up in the past couple of years. Their prices seem to be out of line to me, but a vehicle with many major components renewed does have additional value. -- Advice on determining value. The FAQ, past experience comes into play here, but LR prices seem to be climbing faster than I can comprehend. Asking price and selling price are two different things. Better to answer ads early, or let them age for 2-3 months. -- Pros and cons of 1)driving, 2)towing, 3)haul-for-hire a vehicle 1000 miles or so. On one hand, I want to save money and have an adventure, but how much adventure can I handle? my only other car was 1200 miles away and i paid $750. I towed it and all went well -- it was an adventure (and fun, too). I figured I couldn't go wrong -- but $4000-$7000 is another story. Any advice would be appreciated along these lines... Ray Harder (siia 88 (lulu)) From "MR PETER KEMP" Wed Dec 6 17:30:26 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:30:26 GMT+200 From: "MR PETER KEMP" Subject: general Greetings, A group of us intend embarking on a trip to Malawi next year in June and would like to hear from folk who might have travelled up that way. There are two ways of getting from Zimbabwe, either going through Zambia or through the Tete corridor in Mozambique. Different people have different nightmares to tell about each! Is there anyone out there who can throw some light on either of these options? Land Rover watches -WARNING!!! On the topic of the Land Rover watches that someone mentioned awhile back - I have just swopped mine for the third time. Each time there has been a problem with the Alarm not switching off, after a couple of months. Apparantly they have been withdrawn (in the last two days) by Land Rover because of this problem. Series 11A Forward-Control Motorhome for sale: For anyone who fancies travelling across the African Continent - A friend of mine is selling the above vehicle in South Africa. It is in excellent condition and has only 6000km on the clock. Other features : Pop-up roof. Eazi-awn. Roof Carriers. 100L water tank. 240L fuel capacity. Dual Batteries. Hot water to sink, basin and shower. Mosquito netting. Flourescent lights. Radio/tape. Loads of storage space. etc. Access from camper into the front cab. Price : UK 12 500 pounds or SA R 70 000 Feel free to contact me directly on e.mail pkemp@lark.ru.ac.za or Wayne Sparg Tel (0431) 312077(w) (0431) 54159(h). 9 Linaria Drive, Vincent Heights, East London. 5200. South Africa. Cheers. From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 6 16:49:08 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 16:49:08 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Bunmps and clunks Dear all, well there i was over here in blighty, concerned that the great banging and crashing coming from our disco was due to the fact that my wife tries to emulate nigel mansell whenever she pulls away from the lights. seriously i do need some advice. i had noticed a thumping (?) noise coming from the drivetrain esp when coasting / slowing at about 30mph, i thought that the wheel bearings where / are on their way out. anyway i also checked her over what with the threat of snow etc. she was low on oil so i glugged in 2L (mobil 1 incidentally). she is definately quieter at idle, but despite the fact that my diagnosis of this thumping was bearings (and despite the fact that it was no more noticible around corners - a symptom i understand) the noise seems to have all but gone. she could probably do with a bit more oil (more mobil 1) but could the noise just have been an oil pump working overtime ? by the way i did post about my power steering pump leaking a while back my chaps (the garage that do the work for me) say not to worry until it litrally starts pouring out (they said they would let me know when it was time to change ) they also recommended a recon unit, they have just fitted one to a RR with 130,000miles on the clock and it is going great guns after another 2000miles in 4 weeks (including off-road, the chaps been up to scotland). lastly the CT discos stay upright with all that extra load as they why the nutters drive them, the centrafugal force generated by their speed round the world counters and gravity pulling it over. :-) hope the snow settles i can earn a few bob then towinf fords out of ditches :-) From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Dec 6 11:50:58 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 11:50:58 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: is the RR diff slop/preload adjustable? In reference to the Rangie diffs, Is the preload ("slop"-?) adjustable w/o resetting the R+P set? Or should one just get another R+P set? as long as you're here... (to aussies) How easy and cheap is it to find a 4.4 from P76, pref.? Is the difference in CR between P76 and Terrier in pistons or heads? Will stock 4.2/4.6 crank fit the 3.5 block, or are we still looking only at specialty stroker kits ($$$) Hot Rod march 85 issue - building a 305 from 215 using BOP 300 crank - I might be getting a reprint, please check with me in a couple of days. Also, in ref. to recent RR cam swap post (thanks for the update !!)... Did you say that Crane had 2 diff. grinds for EFI and carbed 3.5l? They only show the 256,262 and 27? grinds in their "Energizer" line AFAIK. Any comments? Messrs. Andy(2), Geof, Brian? Still trying to tune the CD's on the 3.5 v8 in the 109.... Jan From Stephen Thomas Wed Dec 06 11:48:48 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 11:48:48 -0500 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Receiver-Mounted Winch Gentle Readers: Any thoughts, comments, or experiences with receiver-mounted winches? I'm particularly interested in the Class III receiver mounted 8000lb Warn Winch (along with the Class III front receiver) listed in the latest Rovers North Catalog. I'd be installing said device in a 94 Disco. Thanks in advance for your opinions. --Stephen ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (770) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (770) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Wed Dec 6 09:26:45 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. According to DEBROWN@SRP.GOV: >Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? I could not answer about CB antenna, but when I drove my LR to the jungle of Sumatra (Indonesia) with my homebuild 80 meter ham radio, I use a bottom loading vertical antenna that I mount on that 'bumper' little pipe thingy on the back of the chassis. I clamp midway of the antenna to the rain gutter, to reduce the whip. If I would drive again, I'll just use a 2 meter radio with power amp and a shorter antenna, so I don't have to worry with snapping the ant. Sumatra is already well covered with 2 meter repeaters anyway (yes, that's cheating, like somebody said ;) Dave, let us know when you got your license ;) 73 de Paulus -- Paulus Suryono Adisoemarta paulus@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (NeXT!) N5SNN / YG1QN yono@parokinet.org (Linux!) Abu: I wonder why everybody knows that I am a newbie on the internet Nawas: That's because you just forwarded the 'Good Times virus' mail to everyone From "Brazelle, Amy (TRW)" Sun Dec 03 12:22:00 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 12:22:00 PST From: "Brazelle, Amy (TRW)" Subject: Seat Belts Can anyone recommend some replacement seat belts for the back seat of my husband's 1966 SIIA 109? I'm trying to find something "Rover" for him for Christmas. He has already replaced the front belts with lap/shoulder belts. He doesn't have any in the back seat so we don't go out in the Rover a lot because the belts aren't there. He has the old belts but they look pretty bad. I guess lap belts would be sufficient. I need the type and part number please (and I guess a phone number for Rovers North or British Pacific). If I asked him for this information he would get a little suspicious!!! Thanks!!! Please email any suggestions to Brazelle@hsv.mdc.com Amy Brazelle Huntsville, Alabama USA From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Dec 06 13:34:52 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 95 13:34:52 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Made a couple of telephone calls last night -- I am looking for a 58-68 SIIa and some of the old hemming's ads sounded interesting. But it made me think and I am requesting some net-wisdom here. What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). 1) I bought my Rover in upstate NY, 500 miles from home. 2) I drove it back. Depends on condition of car, towing a car can be expensive /annoying/ dangerous, especially if you aren't experienced. Same for driving it I guess. U-Haul will set up the tow rig for you but you've got to drive it... If you're driving back, bring lots of tools and a good credit card. 3) Read between the lines, ask LOTS of questions. Consider that a "good" frame in upstate NY is not the same as a "good" frame in AZ. My frame was described as "good condition, and has been undercoated" Well, "good" meant somewhere between poor and very good, and the undercoating took place in 1985. The frame is now breaking. The PO also claimed rebuilt transmission by Rovers North, which I have found out also took place in 1985. Gearbox now pops out of first. 4) Don't be afraid to back out. I had really set my sights on this one, and got the guy to come down a bit on the price, so I took it. I did okay and will have a great truck when I'm done. But I'm doing a frame over which is not what I had quite planned. By the time I'm done I will have prob'ly spent as much as I would have on a local vehicle ($6-7,000) This is actually ok, because the grand lump of cash to buy a more finished car was not available to me, but charging a couple of hundred a month on parts is no problem (haha) I may have been better off waiting and going back empty handed, but probably not. Also, I just wanted to "get one" which I did, and I've had a lot of fun driving it in between working on it. Fact is its hard to get a good Rover for a good price, and they usually need more work than you think. Even if you buy a "good" one for $7,000+, you'll probably ending up spending alot more on it. 5) Make a trip out of it if you're driving back. Setting a deadline or trying to do it in one day (depending on the distance) could be a bad idea, as you may end up pushing the vehicle too hard, or stressing yourself, especially if something goes wrong, then you feel like you are being "delayed". 6) This should be number one. Try to find a local Rover owner that knows their chops to go look at the vehicle. This will give you the advantage of an unbiased opinion. Anybody that's done a full restoration him(her)self will probably know what to look for, as he/she will have already had to repair the critical sections of their vehicle... NEVER send ANY money for a vehicle you haven't seen or had checked out. Don't even send money for pictures as I suspect there are people that make a living off of this. I know of somebody who paid a grand sum for a vehicle sight unseen and had it trucked to his home. He would have been able to get a much better deal or walk away if he had been to see it. The vehicle was cosmetically and structurally almost perfect, but severely lacking in the mechanical section. It'll still be a superb, clean vehicle when everything's straightened out, but it should have cost a bit less. 7) No matter how bad it is, somebody else always has it worse. There isn't anything so extreme that can go wrong with these cars (trucks?) that can't be somewhat anticipated. I heard the noise my gearbox made before I bought it, but it was just on the reverse gear so I didn't worry. The vehicle is still driveable, as it only pops out on the overrun... a small inconvenience (especially going down steep hills:-)). I'll have a galvanised frame in a few months and I'll switch everything over as is. After that, new bolts+lots of anti-seeze means I can easily take it apart to get the gearbox out, etc... at my lesiure. Hope this doesn't muddy the water. I guess if you sum it all up, buying a Rover, even locally, isn't for the faint of heart, and you must understand that there are times when you will wish you had never bought it, or that Land-Rovers never existed to tempt you into buying them. But you bought it, and they do exist, and they always manage to win you over. All those trials have been worth it for me, and you will NEVER get a perfect Rover, so don't worry about it. The End David Bobeck 72 SIII "Green Car" Washington DC dbobeck@ushmm.org From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 12:00:17 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 12:00:17 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. In message <199512061449.JAA01859@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle > long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could > summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). Do so. :) > -- buying from the LR restoration houses that have cropped up > in the past couple of years. Their prices seem to be > out of line to me, but a vehicle with many major components > renewed does have additional value. And part of the problem is that to them time=money. So if it takes 40 hours of mechanics time to fix it up, how can they not add $1000 to the price and stay in business? ($25/hour is cheep labor for mechanics) Certain vendors trying to sell, or actually selling restored Series LRs for $50k is way too much (IMO). Heck, I think $40k is too much for a '93 NAS D110. > -- Advice on determining value. The FAQ, past experience comes > into play here, but LR prices seem to be climbing faster > than I can comprehend. I personally think that the reason that prices of Series LRs are skyrocketing in the US is because of the influx of newer LRs, especially Discos and D90s. I've noticed a few D90 people buying Series Rovers to restore. After dropping $30k on a D90 or Disco, $7k or $10k on a running Series vehicle may seem like a good buy. And how many Series Rovers change hands in the US every year? 100? All it takes is a few sales for the percieved price to go up. I also wonder if the rising in prices is because people see the US '93 D110s being advertised at $44k to $48k (I think the origional price was $40k) and think that Series LRs are collectables whose price will rise with time. This trend will also drive the price up. A third trend, at least in CA, is that pre-1966 Rovers don't have to be Smogged. As Smog laws get tougher and tougher, those Rovers, or atleast the serial numbers thereof, will have more valuable. How many "pre-1966 SIIA" SIIIs have you seen lately? > Asking price and selling price are two different things. I'd like to update the FAQ for pricing, but the only data that I ever see is asking price. I'm hesitant to put average asking prices in the FAQ because that is a positive feed back loop. (Newby reads FAQ, buys Rover at inflated price, asking prices go up so FAQ reflects this,...) As a general note, the FAQ only has Series LR prices from the US/Canada in the early 90's. It is not trying to exclude the rest of the world, but those were the only data points that Dixon had. Do the UK memembers feel that the prices shown in the back of LRO and LRW reflect the current LR market in the UK? If so I could use that for a UK data point. If Australian, African, German, Danish, etc list members email me with what they feel is the current market price for any type of Land Rover in their country/area, I'll compile the data and add it to the FAQ. > -- Pros and cons of 1)driving, 2)towing, 3)haul-for-hire a > vehicle 1000 miles or so. On one hand, I want to save money > and have an adventure, but how much adventure can I handle? Personally I'd go with 1 or 2 and that would depend upon the condition of the vehicle. A daily runner, I'd drive 1000 miles. One that has sat in a field without running for the last 5 years, I'd be a lot more uncomforable about driving 1000 miles. (If you are going to drive it, bring a box full of likely spares) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From GElam30092@aol.com Wed Dec 6 15:09:47 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:09:47 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Racks and weights You wrote: " Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff up there without any damage." I'm curious. Every rack with the exceptions of the CT vehicles seems to use the rain gutters with no other bracing. Every catalog that I have shows loaded racks (usually with gear bags, two jerry cans, a spare and shovel/high lift) on the rack attached to the gutters. The Discovery is around 110 lbs. It will be interesting (at least to me) to see what the weights are for the others. Would owners of Range Rovers and Defenders mind posting the weights that Land Rover recommends not be exceeded on the List? (BTW: for those in Phx, I just requested the Safety Devices catalog and will be happy to share it out on request.... ) Gerry From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 6 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 6 Dec 95 15:26:27 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Anybody want a Lumenition module? I ended up buying the Crane/Allison unit for my Rover, and as such have a Lumenition module I don't need. $20 plus shipping takes it. aj"Gotta clean house SOMETIME..."r From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 07 07:42:00 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 07:42:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster James Where did you get the price of $AUD 0.80 per kilo?? I have an early Series 1 chassis which is just about ready for the big dip but haven't yet 'let my fingers do the walking'. Still have a few things to pull off but it should be ready by Christmas. Any thing else I should look out for? Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) E-mail: sbar@jna.com.au ---------- From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 06 Dec 95 15:52:21 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: "Strange Noises" >When coasting to a stop with the clutch in, my '96 NAS Disco sometimes makes >a rattling sound in the drivetrain. This seems to be most noticeable after >driving for half an hour or more (everything warmed up) and appears to be ... >After about 500 miles it started make the exact same sound. The sound only >occurs when coasting to a stop and then only when speed pretty slow. Under >power the sound goes away. ... >Anyone else out there experience this? I wouldn't expect it to happen with >an automatic. Given it was present in 2 different Disco's, I suppose things >are as they should be. There are no other odd symptoms and otherwise the I posted a message on this phenomenon 1, maybe 2 weeks ago... It's the transmission brake (hand brake) drum. We also have this problem with many of the Defenders we get. There seems to be a particular assembly line in Solihul which is manned by a bunch of jerks who constantly screw up the transmission brake assembly (adjusted to tight, shoes out of toe, loose/oily linings etc.) Clean out, re-assemble and properly adjust the transmission brake, and the problem will go away (unless it's something else...). Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 06 Dec 95 15:52:12 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR power steering boxes >Has anyone replaced their PSB, how long did it take, I just read an old LRO >article where the guy said it took a few hours. That would seem about right, The replacement as such is straightforward, it's pulling out the drop arm ball joint and realigning the steering geometry which can be time consuming and requires special tools. You also have to clear a few things out of the way to have proper access (alternator, air filter, PS-liquid reservoir...) >Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes >from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 Rebuilt - no. Exchange units are ok, but as far as I know, Land Rover officially doesn't sell exchange units in the UK, only new ones; so you'd have to get one from outside the the UK (like KIMMAN in Holland), unless you settle for aftermarket/no-name. I'd advise to go for the improved exchange unit NTC1583E (NTC1583 if it's a new unit). For this unit you also need a different type of drop arm, the old one won't fit (unless you already have the NTC1583 unit installed). Price: GBP 440.- for a new box, or GBP 225.- for the exchange unit in the UK (don't forget to specify LHD!) Stefan From Ray Harder Wed Dec 6 15:51:34 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:51:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: > Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. > I have one suggestion. If the frame is bad, stay away from it. well, actually, that was the conversation over the noon hour. say you can get a galvanized frame for $2500 on-site. and say that you can do a frame-over in 6 days as someone noted earlier this month. i have a mechanic that would do it for me for $300 per day. this guy is good -- he could likely find me someone less experienced or do it off-shift -- say $200 per day which adds up to $1200. If I could get an old LR for $2000 with a rotted frame and put $3700 into it, I still am ahead of the $6000 being asked for the arizona car. (which has burnt upholstry and seals and paint burnt off by the intense sun) And this allows me to look east of the mississippi. tough questions/tougher answers... sign me --- confused in missouri... From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Dec 6 17:34:53 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:34:53 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Jim Pappas ALL; Need an e-mail address for Jim Pappas..... Have some info I need to send him. Thanks Steve Bradke 72 slll 88 ASFCO@aol.com From Kevan Shaw Sat Dec 16 22:58:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:58:59 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Oil consumption Thanks for the advice folks, It seems rather a depressing prospect of a major engine rebuild to cure it. Graham harden asked if it passed the Euro emission test, wellit did as they only check for exhaust emission which is clean, thankfully they don't count oil spots on the floor under the Landie, if they did very few would pass! I see a lot of people asking about Hi-Lift jacking Discos. There is a company in Scotland who make bolt on jack sockets called NSC design, if anyone is interested I'll try and find the phone number and post it. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 15:26:01 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 15:26:01 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. Ray Harder wrote: > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: > > Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. > > I have one suggestion. If the frame is bad, stay away from it. > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: well, actually, that was the conversation over the noon hour. say you can get a galvanized frame for $2500 on-site. and say that you can do a frame-over in 6 days as someone noted earlier this month. i have a mechanic that would do it for me for $300 per day. this guy is good -- he could likely find me someone less experienced or do it off-shift -- say $200 per day which adds up to $1200. If I could get an old LR for $2000 with a rotted frame and put $3700 into it, I still am ahead of the $6000 being asked for the arizona car. > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: Remember that frame overs aren't just a new frame. New bushings, probably new U bolts, lots of bolts for body fasteners that will shear when you attempt to take them off. You probably need to replace some or all of the brake lines. While you are moving the engine, are you going to replace the clutch and throwout bearing? I could see another $1000 tacked on in parts before you are done. (At least). I'm not saying that you wouldn't have to do this on another Rover that you buy, but there you could spread the repair bills out a bit. Shipfitter's disease is expensive. Ben, (who has a used frame awaiting an upcoming frameover on a daily (and only) driver) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 6 18:37:04 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:37:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > > Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of > > these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different > > features associated with this major change. > Nope. My '59 109" has 2-piece doors. One piece doors on the Series I 88" and Series II's basically designate a "Canadian Spec" Land Rover. There are other options that went with this. (On the Series I's, the serial number carries a lower case "c") From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 18:44:59 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:44:59 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Last saturday's tragic breakdown of the '66 S2A (initiating a cascade failure of the wife's car...another sad tale) has gotten me to think about small spinning metal things a lot recently(see: Bill's brain). I strongly suspect the Fairey overdrive unit let go. this would explain why an otherwise happy truck would suddenly stop dead. Have any other readers felt that same BANG ? If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and drive on. Will do a thorough diagnosis tomorrow. Always up to my elbows in something... Bill Adams 3Dmentia 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 18:59:16 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:59:16 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Last saturday's tragic breakdown of the '66 S2A (initiating a cascade failure of the wife's car...another sad tale) has gotten me to think about small spinning metal things a lot recently(see: Bill's brain). I strongly suspect the Fairey overdrive unit let go. this would explain why an otherwise happy truck would suddenly stop dead. Have any other readers felt that same BANG ? If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and drive on. Will do a thorough diagnosis tomorrow. Always up to my elbows in something... Bill Adams 3Dmentia 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 16:36:54 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 16:36:54 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Racks and weights In message <199512062010.PAA02082@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > The Discovery is around 110 lbs. It will be interesting (at least to me) to > see what the weights are for the others. Would owners of Range Rovers and > Defenders mind posting the weights that Land Rover recommends not be exceeded > on the List? Based on Land Rover North America and LR, UK brosures 1996 NAS Discovery 110lbs (50kg) (to rain gutter) 1996 NAS Range Rover (Mk2) 176lbs (80kg) (to mount points in roof) 1995 NAS Defender 90 100lbs (Thule system to roll bars) 1993 NAS Defender 100 (not listed/I didn't write it down for the web page) 1995 Defender (world wide) (not listed/I didn't write it down for the web page) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 7 11:09:25 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:09:25 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:4.4L stuff > (to aussies) How easy and cheap is it to find a 4.4 from P76, pref.? > Is the difference in CR between P76 and Terrier in pistons or heads? CR difference is in the pistons. if you use 8.13 CR rover pistons in the 4.4 leyland you end up with ~ 9.0:1 so its real easy to get high CR's... motors are around if you ask the right people, prices vary but say $3-400AUD for a rebuilder. Apart from the rocker gear parts are basically rover. the waterpump etc is different but if you want to use the motor in a landy you will need the Rangie timing cover anyway. Oh yeah the 4.4 leyland uses a thick(ish) composite head gasket (like a felpro or McCord). As an aside be aware that the felpro/Mccord composite gaskets when used on your 3.5 will gobble CR, compared to the factory tin ones. ISTR that if I use composites on my 8.13 I end up with a 7.5 or 7.6. I supopose they may be a cheap way of getting ULP capability from a 9.35 Rangie motor havent done the sums..... I dont know about the stroker kits being so expensive. At least over here by the time I pay for crank and rods crack testing, new rod bolts, new pistons and fitting , crank grind, reciprocating mass balance, rings and bearings I'm up for something like ~$1500AUD.. A 4.2 stroker kit with all new bits can be had for $2300-2500AUD. -- Daryl From Kevan Shaw Sat Dec 16 22:58:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:58:59 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Oil consumption Thanks for the advice folks, It seems rather a depressing prospect of a major engine rebuild to cure it. Graham harden asked if it passed the Euro emission test, wellit did as they only check for exhaust emission which is clean, thankfully they don't count oil spots on the floor under the Landie, if they did very few would pass! I see a lot of people asking about Hi-Lift jacking Discos. There is a company in Scotland who make bolt on jack sockets called NSC design, if anyone is interested I'll try and find the phone number and post it. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Dec 6 20:29:41 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Re: synthetic Here's my experiences... In 5 years of owning my newer LR - a 1970 88", I have done a lot of oil changing! But never to my diffs or overdrive after putting synthetic oil in them - done mainly because in northern VT it gets down to -29 degrees F and I need to get around. I highly recommend spending the cash on those areas only - don't waste your money on an older motor, since it burns away twice as fast and leaks like a seive. Perhaps on a new model, since seals are tight and it aids in lowering wear and tear... motto - if cold, lube synthetically - if not, don't bother (this applies to both regional temps as well as operating temps!). Frank Twarog "Brrrrlington" VT From 06 95 Dec EST 1920 Date: 06 Dec 95 20:46:02 EST From: Subject: disco rear door clunks to Chris Boese, While mine developed a door squeak after an off road trip, I am not convinced that it is the door. sounds more plasticky to me. I'll have it checked out at the 15k service. I really need to take a ride in the trunk (while some one drives) and try to pinpoint it. check this out too. above the lock on the rear door is a guide plate. the dealer (Metro west in natick ma) tell me that they have seen two types, a metal to metal (metal on the door and the frame) (guaranteed to make noises) and a metal to plastic (little or no noise). IF yours has metal to metal get the dealer to change it. no idea of part numbers. I have metal to plastic...... regards chris browne brit in boston 95 disco From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 21:30:44 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 21:30:44 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: seat belts for Amy's 109 >> He doesn't have any in the back seat so we don't go out in the Rover a >> lot >>because the belts aren't there. He has the old belts but they look > pretty >>bad. I guess lap belts would be Hey Amy I hope you aren't trying to tell us that you guys are back seat drivers! The number you need to call is 802-879-0032. Just tell them the year and model and they'll do the rest. They quote $62.00 per belt assembly,but perhaps if you already have the hardware,they'll just sell you the belts. I have the same model Rover as you do (diesel) and love it to pieces(literally). P.S. Hope your husband doesn't read the Rover mail or your surprise is... From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Dec 6 23:11:15 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:11:15 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec We have the remains of a '59 88" with 1 piece doors which was originally sold in West Virginia. Also 1 piece doors were used on some early II SWs sold in the UK, so it looks like some but not all U.S. early Series II had 1 piece doors. I saw references in the OVLR FAQ to Canadian spec Series IIs. Was this a spec ordered by Rover of North America for the Canadian market? The only references to special configurations in the early II parts books are to American Dollar Area. I have a 1960 East Coast U.S. price list. Does anyone have a Canadian price list? Our '60 88", originally sold in Pennsylvania, has a heater with the long rectangular air box under the dash, and the air inlet at the front, inside of the right wing as described in the FAQ for late Series I Canadian spec. There is clear evidence that a round Smith's heater was removed before this heater was installed. Prehaps this heater was a predecessor to the Kodiak, and was sourced in North America and installed locally? From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 6 20:26:12 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:26:12 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Racks and weights >From: GElam30092@aol.com[SMTP:GElam30092@aol.com] >You wrote: " Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain >channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain >gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff >up there without any damage." >I'm curious. Every rack with the exceptions of the CT vehicles seems to use >the rain gutters with no other bracing. Every catalog that I have shows >loaded racks (usually with gear bags, two jerry cans, a spare and shovel/high >lift) on the rack attached to the gutters. The D110 I saw today had it's rack mounted atop the external roll cage. That would seem to be a much sturdier mount than a drip rail. Likewise, I would think that the number of mounts attaching the rack to the rail would help distribute the weight better. Also, there may be some points along the drip rail that are stronger than others. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From JCassidyiv@aol.com Wed Dec 6 23:34:19 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:34:19 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: 109 in NH Just got the latest issue of a regional classified magazine. There's a 1967 109 for sale in NH. Does this belong to anyone on the list-if so, E-mail me directly as I'm quite interested. Also, the January 1996 issue of Four Wheeler magazine has a long-term update on their Discovery-simply one-and-a-half pages of praise! There was a small problem with gearbox whine which was fixed under warrenty. Can someone tell me what the largest tires I can put on my RR with the OME springs? I know this was discussed recently, but I admit I didn't pay much attention. Does anyone know of a good source(price-wise) for Superwinch products. I'd like to mount one of their Husky series winches to my RR. Cheers, and thanks for the info! John Cassidy, Bangor Maine USA From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Thu Dec 7 17:39:34 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 17:39:34 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Simon & LR readers, this is sort of a personal reply but is of interest to Australian readers and maybe others. If you want to do your galvaniSing (I prefer the S spelling) homework properly the best Australian ref is Hot Dip Galvanizing, by the Galvanizers Association of Australia, 124 Exhibition Street, Melbourne Victoria 3000. ISBN 0 909951 20 9 Other advice I've remembered is when getting prices check whether the price (per kg) is for before or after galvanising. I think it's a bit of a scam that some quote for the weight after galvanising - which they estimate is approx 5% higher than pre galv. I get a bit of galvanising done for work. Most galv's have a min charge of approx $AUD 50. Last check of prices (Nov 1995) was (Sydney): Industrial Galvanizers, 636 8244, want drawings, don't like quoting on weight, but just so you know how cheap it can be, their Government Contract rate was $AUD 0.39 per kg post gal in 1994. Mascot Galvanising, 667 4328, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal Galvanising Services, 709 3777, $AUD 0.65 per kg post gal (=add 5%) Trico Metal Industries, 707 4299, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal. Trico were the only ones to offer reasonable pick-up and delivery for non regular customers. In my experience most of them tend to be pretty unfriendly and unhelpful towards small timers, but I guess the product sells itself. Depending on the corrosivity of the environment (we don't have salted roads in Oz) you can expect a 25 year life for a galvanised chassis. James Carley '85 110 County 3.9D (and Coastal Engineer) From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Dec 07 08:13:47 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:13:47 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Frozen conduit pipes Hello folks, It's freezing( -4 Celsius ) for a view days now here in the Netherlands. When I wanted to wash wy front window this morning, and the rear window also, trying to spray some washingfliud on the window, there was none. It didn't even sputter!. Checked the reservoir under the hood, fluid wasn't frozen. Could hear the pump also, trying to spray some fluid on the windows. I suspect that the fluid in the conduit pipes is frozen :-(. Bought the beast brand new at the end of september, 1995 that is, so I expected there to be some anti-freeze in the reservoir. Now it seems there was *some* indeed. Any good suggestions to defrost these pipes? ( No garage to heat the beast up though :-( ). Hand clapping and feet stamping regards, LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Daniel Polak Wed Dec 6 19:03:00 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 19:03:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: 4WD on snow and ice Winter is here. I didn't garage my Lightweight on purpose, I'm waiting for snow and ice to see how it will behave. I expect traction to be better than on my regular car but braking to be worse (no ABS), also it promises to be quite cold and windy inside. In European winter conditions how does driving a LandRover compare to driving a normal car like my Saab 900? What are your experiences driving LandRovers in winter? Daniel From david@stat.com (David Dodell) Thu Dec 07 00:28:02 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 00:28:02 MST From: david@stat.com (David Dodell) Subject: Front Seat Info / Children / Airbags / Discovery Several weeks ago, I asked about the safety of putting a child in the front seat of a 96 Disco due to the airbag. Just received this by email, concerning child seats in general from the Centers for Disease Control. Air-Bag-Associated Fatal Injuries to Infants and Children Riding in Front Passenger Seats -- United States Air bags, when used as a supplement to safety belts, effectively prevent deaths and serious injuries in frontal motor-vehicle crashes. Air bags are standard equipment in most new cars; federal safety standards require that all new passenger cars and light trucks be equipped with both driver- and passenger-side air bags by 1999. The safety of air bags is well documented, and air bags have saved an estimated 900 lives since the late 1980s (1); however, special precautions are needed to safely transport children in vehicles equipped with air bags. Reports of eight deaths of child passengers in crashes involving air-bag deployment are of special concern because they involved low-speed crashes that the children otherwise might have survived. This report summarizes three of these eight cases (2). Case 1. In October 1995, in Utah, a 5-year-old child sitting in the front passenger seat of a 1994-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed during a collision. Preliminary information indicates the child was not restrained by the lap/shoulder belt. The child sustained a skull fracture as a result of head contact with the air bag and subsequent head contact with the roof of the vehicle. Case 2. In July 1995, in Pennsylvania, a 20-day-old infant seated in a rear-facing convertible child safety seat in the front passenger seat of a 1995-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed. The infant sustained multiple skull fractures and crushing injuries to the brain as a result of the impact of the air-bag compartment cover flap with the back of the child safety seat at the location of the child's head. At the time of collision, the vehicle was traveling at approximately 23 miles per hour. The vehicle had a label on the right front sun visor warning against using a rear-facing child safety seat in the front passenger seat. The child safety seat also had a warning label that read "when used in a rear facing mode, do not place in the front seat of a vehicle that has a passenger air bag." Case 3. In April 1993, in Ohio, a 6-year-old child who was sitting unrestrained in the front passenger seat of a 1993-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed during a collision with a stopped vehicle. The child died from a brain injury caused by blunt force trauma. Reported by: Traffic Safety Programs, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Div of Unintentional Injury Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC. Editorial Note: Although infants, children, and all other occupants always should be properly restrained in safety seats or safety belts, as many as 35% of young children ride unrestrained (3). Any child who rides unrestrained or incorrectly restrained in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side air bag is at risk for serious injury or death if the air bag deploys. Precrash braking may propel an unrestrained child against the dashboard in immediate proximity to the point of air-bag deployment. The inflating air bag then can propel the child against structures inside the vehicle, causing serious injury or death. Rear-facing child restraints also pose a hazard in vehicles with a passenger-side air bag and must never be placed in the front seat (4). To be properly protected, infants must ride in a rear-facing child restraint until they weigh 20 pounds or are approximately 1 year old (5). In a crash, a rear-facing child restraint placed in the front seat with its back close to the vehicle's instrument panel could be struck by the rapidly inflating air bag, and the child in the restraint could be seriously injured or killed. Forward-facing safety seats are less likely to be affected by air bag interaction because of their greater distance from the point of air-bag deployment in the dashboard. However, because these seats usually place the child at least several inches closer to the dashboard than adults in the standard seating position, the safest practice is to place all child safety seats in the back seat of the vehicle. If a forward-facing safety seat must be placed in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side air bag, the vehicle seat should be moved as far back as possible to maximize clearance with the dashboard. As a result of an investigation of air-bag-related fatalities and serious injuries to child passengers, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) recently released safety recommendations regarding children and air bags (2). NTSB recommends collaboration between automobile and safety-seat manufacturers, the news media, health and medical organizations, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to inform motorists and parents of the correct procedures for transporting children in vehicles equipped with air bags. NHTSA has enacted several regulatory measures addressing the air bag/child passenger problem, including labeling requirements for vehicles and child safety seats and specifications for air-bag cutoff switches. CDC and NHTSA have developed recommendations to prevent air-bag-associated injuries to infants and children (see box). In addition to intensifying efforts to educate motorists, NHTSA has solicited public comment regarding further strategies to reduce adverse effects of air bags (published in the November 9, 1995, Federal Register*); written comments are due by Decem- ber 26, 1995, to Docket Section, Room 5109, NHTSA, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590 (refer to docket 74-14, notice #97). Additional information is available from Child Safety Seats, c/o NHTSA, NTS-13, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590; or from NHTSA's Auto Safety Hotline, telephone (800) 424-9393 or (202) 366-0123. Air-bag-associated serious injuries and deaths to infants and children should be reported to Vernon Roberts, NTSB, telephone (202) 382-0660. References 1. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Traffic safety facts 1994: occupant protection. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 1995. 2. National Transportation Safety Board. Safety recommendation, H-95-17. Washington, DC: National Transportation Safety Board, 1995. 3. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Research note. National occupant protection use survey: controlled intersection study. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, May 1, 1995. 4. CDC. Warnings on interaction between air bags and rear-facing child restraints. MMWR 1993; 42:280-2. 5. American Academy of Pediatrics. 1995 Family shopping guide to car seats: guidelines for parents. Elk Grove Village, Illinois: American Academy of Pediatrics, 1995. Public Health Recommendations to Prevent Air-Bag-Associated Injuries to Infants and Children -- All infants and children should be properly restrained in child safety seats or lap and shoulder belts when riding in a motor vehicle. -- Infants riding in rear-facing child safety seats should never be placed in the front seat of a car or truck with a passenger-side air bag. -- Children should ride in a car's rear seat. If a vehicle does not have a rear seat, children riding in the front seat should be positioned as far back as possible from an air bag. * 60 FR 56554. --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135 WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david From Oscar M Thu Dec 07 18:24:25 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 18:24:25 +0800 From: Oscar M Subject: Synthetics What do you guys think of using synthetic, engine/transmission, under the following conditions : (1) ambient temperature 75-95 degrees F, (2) travel 35-40 miles per day, (3) start the engine 6x-8x per day, (4) stop & go driving, and (5) minimal freeway driving. Right, not the greatest daily driving conditions but a hell of a lot of off-road possibilites here!!! Thanks Oscar omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com Philippines From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 7 12:44:09 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:44:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Horror story \Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? No. Unless you are too lazy to change the oil. Just use a good non synth and change twice as often as the service schedule requires. \Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? No. It can leak out of clearances that ordinary oil cant get thru. \Is it OK to use in a new motor? No. Not for 10000 miles. The motor wont break in properly on synth from new. \Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary \enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Look at the rec.motorcycles Oil FAQ. Superb. The really interesting bit was tee grade holding tests where Castrol GTX did much better than all the other non synths and only Mobil One of the synths beat it!!!! Guess what I use now.......... From Stephen Thomas 7 95 Dec GMT 1913 Date: 7 Dec 95 13:04:45 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Boxpops Does anyone know if there is a strightforward explanantion for this, or is it a sign of impending doom. The recently recon gearbox in Andy has been performing beautifully up to now, but this morning in anticipation of problems driving out of our ice-rink of a car park - the estate where we live is isolated and the snow overnight had fallen and then frozen - I decided to pop it into four-wheel drive just to get off the estate's iced-up roads. However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place, and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in 4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range it popped back up happy-as-larry. I normally keep the hubs locked to lubricate the bushes, but with the possibility of having 4WD permanantly in place and no desire for wind- up in the transmission, I unlocked them for driving. I have booked it in for a service on the 20th Dec anyway and have asked for them to look at the 4WD selector under the gearbox warranty. Could it be something major? Could it just be that the selector rod has come off the 4WD section of the box (the selector does slop around a bit)? Is there anything that I should worry about before it goes for the service, i.e. any chance of major damage that I am risking in the interval between now and the 20th? whingeing on again.... Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~\ || / || \ || ||_____/_____||_____\_____|| |_|________|____|________|_| /~---__ ______________ __---~\ |~~~~~~~| /=\|####|/=\ |~~~~~~~| | o o | \=/|####|\=/ | o o | | EAB |##############| | Stephen Thomas |_836B__|##############|_______| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \____________________________/ 0121-452-1405 |~_-_~|----\___/-------|~_-_~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy' : Classic car, definitely ~---~ ~---~ not a daily driver :)] From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 7 12:49:16 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:49:16 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Ersatz air filters \last week, Roy Wassili doubted if the Volkswagen Oilfilter really matches \the LR one. I got to the autoparts dealer again this Saturday and checked \carefully again. It is really similar to that I got from the British autoparts \shop. If anyone is intersted to use it, too. It's the oilfilter mounted on \the newer VW diesels (nonturbo) like Golf/Rabbit and Passat. More to the point has abnyone found a cheaper replacement for the ridiculously expensive paper canister things on 90s? From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 07 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 07 Dec 95 08:17:43 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Overdrive and the sound... > If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and > drive on. It's a 15-minute job, leaving a 10 inch oil puddle... However, make sure the backplate actually has a bearing in it... (don't ask...) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 07 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 07 Dec 95 08:19:03 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco... > Yes, Yes, i've had that noise too in my SIII SWB Diesel. > In my case the universal joints and moveable joint on the front prop shaft > where completely buggered. But surely not on a *_'96_ Disco* ... honestly... Again: Check those transmission brakes ! Stefan From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 7 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 7 Dec 95 8:18:02 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Lumenition is gone - thanks! From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 7 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 7 Dec 95 8:24:05 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Water ingestion by engine - ick! I've started driving my 109 on a daily basis, and I discovered a serious oversight I'd made that I hope to help someone else avoid. When i installed the ex-late IIa motor in my 109, it had none of the pollution crud on it and the port on the carb for PCV was blocked. "OK" I say, no big deal.... HOWEVER, I made the mistake of not putting some sort of tube over the stub on the front of the oil filler neck, and the engine ingested enough water in a recent rain to put a nice frothy sludge on top of my oil...ick! Guess who's getting an oil change ths weekend? What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to ingest water......double ick! aj"I hate oil mousse"r From Duncan Brown Thu Dec 07 09:09:13 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 09:09:13 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: RE: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec > Our '60 88", originally sold in Pennsylvania, has a heater with the long > rectangular air box under the dash, and the air inlet at the front, inside of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > was installed. Prehaps this heater was a predecessor to the Kodiak, and was > sourced in North America and installed locally? My 88 (made in '59, titled as a '60, originally from Canada) has that same setup: Smith's heater removed, heater with rectangular box installed under passenger side dash (not recently either!). It definitely had the inlet at the front (on the inside face of the right front wing, next to the grill and headlight) but this has had a piece of aluminum put over it and a crude hole cut in the wing outside (in the normal spot) and covered over with window screen... Oh yeah and the one-piece doors. My doors clearly had "GVW 5000" painted on the lower edges at one point. Presumably Gross Vehicle Weight. Is this a clue as to its former life? many have suggested Canadian Forestry service. Duncan From Peter Kutschera Thu Dec 7 15:30:43 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:30:43 +0100 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Kevan Shaw writes: > I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. I also had this problem. This mushroom like think on the top of the engine was loose. After using a new screw i don't loose so mutch oil there. :-) But there are other leaks too :-( Peter Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR From LTC Larry Smith Thu Dec 7 7:32:01 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 7:32:01 EST (1232Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Bill, Just a thought. I just got thru replacing the clutch sleeve on my OD unit. If you ar not familiar, this replaces the main gear on the Xmsn output shaft. It consists of a sleeve with roller bearings on the Xmsn end and splines on the OD end. The rollers carry the end of the OD input shaft while the splines mesh with female splines inside the OD input shaft. My OD unit sounded like severely battered U-Joints when coming to a stop. Exam showed the splines on the sleeve almost completely rolled over (like the teeth on a motorcycle sprocket with a worn chain). The only time this assy gets lube is bearing grease upon assembly. What you might have is the splines have completely let go. Only way I know to check w/o removing the OD is to block the wheels, take off the top plate on the Xmsn, the top plate off the OD, put the Xfer in neutral, and run both the Xmsn and OD thru the gears. If you have output from the Xmsn and no "pickup" with the OD input, the sleeve would be a good bet. Otherwise, lay away about an hour to remove the OD unit. Pretty straight forward. However, two of the nuts you have to remove are "capture" by the OD case. Have to work back and forth to remove. They do help to pull the case away from the Xfer case however. If you get a binding, move the OD shift lever back and forth several times to disengage the geh. On assembly, get everything back together as tightly as possible, and bump the starter to get the teeth to remesh for final seating of the OD unit (courtsey of Rovers North). Sorry for massive consumption of the bandwith. Larry From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Dec 07 16:19:32 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 16:19:32 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: "Scarved for live" explanation Bob( or is it Robert?) We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation ). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!) Regards, LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.com Thu Dec 7 11:07:30 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:07:30 -0400 From: SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.com Subject: SE Oil Change Hi Ben: I saw your posting on the Landrover Owner digest. I've only got about 4K miles on my 4.0 SE, but its already been in to change the break-in oil. By then it was already leaking, which I guess we should expect. The dealer (Palm Beach Motors) happily refit the oil pan with new sealant. I'm sure you're aware there's a lot of controversy over synthetic oil. I clip- the following from an aviation newsletter URL: http://www.avweb.com/ that came today (this applies to aircooled piston aircraft engines): MOBIL AV-1 SUIT SETTLED A judge has approved a final settlement in the class action suit against Mobil for damage allegedly caused by it's AV-1 synthetic oil. Under the settlement, Mobil agreed to pay for repairs and downtime if owners can prove damage via a complex inspection protocol. Owners have until the end of February to file claims with Mobil. The argument seems to be that while synthetic oil is a great lubricant, it doesn't have the detergent / dispersal properties of the real thing. Teardowns were finding clumps of debris inside the engines after running synthetic oil. I've decided to keep mine running the regular oil, and just change often. If you haven't done it yet, there's also two recall notices (brake line & belt pulley) that will have to be done. It took an overnight stay to fix the various minor complaints. I am very happy with the car overall. Good luck with yours. Scott Beckey 95 4.0 SE From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 07 11:26:38 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 11:26:38 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: "Scarved for live" explanation We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation ). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!) ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) I still don't get it. You have to wear a scarf to stay alive? I thought those new Landies had better heaters. :-) -Dave "reaching" From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 07 11:37:47 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 11:37:47 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Buying Long Distance Its sounds like David Bobeck and I could exchange our experiences with little difficulty. Wierd. I also bought mine in upstate NY, Rochester, a little over a year ago. I first talked with the gentleman's son, who posted it. He pointed me to the mailing list and the FAQ, which I read, and told me that the frame of this beastie was "very sound". I also got a list of replaced parts, copies of reciepts for the parts, and photos in the mail. All looked pretty good. I also had some long phone calls with him on the state of the vehicle. At the time, I had never seen a Rover up close. So here was my logic: First, the guy was pointing me to the FAQ, so it didn't seem like he was trying to hide anything. Second, the vehicle was priced per the guidlines in the FAQ for a sound Rover of this vintage ($4500). Last, he seemed, based on our phone conversations, to have the "rover lingo" down - i.e. he talked like he knew what was going on. He also had it ready to go into Hemmings, but I bought it before it appeared. I flew out to look at it and bought it. What I got was a pretty good runner with a trashed frame - lots of patches, home-fab rear x-member, non-Rover rear springs, bad motor mounts. I blame myself mostly, if I would have had somebody go look at it I could have avoided lots of sweat and the soon to happen frame-over (which is what I was *trying* to aviod - major work). I do think the PO actually thought it was worth that, or at least I like to think that. No one likes to feel like they were purposly screwed. :-/ I drove it back to Minneapolis: no major problems - lost the generator before I hit Buffalo (bad wire), found the leak in the gas filler neck, burned lots of gas because the carb was adjusted poorly, etc. The PO had replaced most of the things that tend to fail or road trips - pumps and stuff like that. I also bought a simple "tune-up" kit, dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires, hoses, belt, etc. Here's a tip on flying someplace and driving back - I called my airline and it wouldn't allow me to carry-on a toolbox. I was flying standby so no checked luggage. I don't know if I would check my tools anyway. After I bought this thing, I went to a local wal-mart and bought $200 worth of tools and left them all in their packages. I returned them all when I got back. :-) Thats my story. The distance didn't seen to be as much a problem as my ignorance of what I was getting into. I have a friend that works for an airline so I can fly pretty cheap - my flight out there was only $50, so the investment wasn't too great. I don't know if there is any wisdom in there or not. Basically, get someone you trust to look at it before you fly or drive any distance. Or be willing to sacrifce the cost of a plane ticket on a goose chase. Good luck, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 7 11:47:08 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:47:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Boxpops Steve Snip > However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place, and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in 4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range > it popped back up happy-as-larry. This since the gearbox recon? Snip I'd suggest with the range selector in high and your hubs engaged , jack up one rear wheel (assuming you don't have a diff lock) and see if you can drive off. If not, you know the front wheel drive unit isn't engaged. Which it might be if the selector shaft has come loose. If you can drive off, put it in low then back to high and try it again to make sure it's disengaing. I was told by a LR service guy many years ago it's not wise to drive in 4WD with the front hubs disengaged. The selector could be disconnected (maybe they forgot the cotter pin on refitting. Or it could be the stop in the FWD unit isn't engaging. Good luck. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Dec 7 13:10:19 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:10:19 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Receiver mounted winches You wrote: Any thoughts, comments, or experiences with receiver-mounted winches? I'm particularly interested in the Class III receiver mounted 8000lb Warn Winch (along with the Class III front receiver) listed in the latest Rovers North Catalog. I'd be installing said device in a 94 Disco. I have the same setup but I suspect the RN has it over-priced. If I had it to do over again, I would purchase the receiver from them and the winch from someone else. Works great. The receiver attaches to the frame where the front bumper attaches. This is the same attachment that the LRNA winch attaches to on the Discos. It can be mounted by one person but it is heavy and difficult to get the bolts lined with the holes by yourself. It does cut the approach angle significantly. All things considered, the winch stays nice and clean tucked away in the back. The bad news is that you need to secure it whenever you carry it around. (Mark Ritter, I think, mentioned using threaded holes with tie-downs from Northern Hydraulics in the rear floor of the Disco..theyre there and it was a super idea!. Or I use the seatbelts in the fold-down seats: perfect for holding a 5-gal cooler and the winch!) (Someone recently mentioned using an eye-attachment in a receiver on the rear to lift with a High Lift. I have the same eye-bolt. I see no reason why you couldnt lift the front with the front receiver too. You would be lifting from the middle however.) I also purchased a long Warn electrical cable to run to the rear of my Disco. You never know when it might be advantageous to pull back rather than pull forward! Gerry (likes his parentheses) Elam From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Thu Dec 7 10:42:38 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:42:38 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Re: Buying Long Distance (LONG) Here's what I went through to aquire my 109 which I picked up last week. I called about 20 different people regarding thier land rovers which were for sale all over the country. Many of the things said regarding East Coast vehicles are true. Case in point: I had a line on a cherry NADA 6 which was previously owned by Billy Joel (actually by Christie Brinkley, but that's another story). It was on Martha's Vinyard and was supposedly in great 'restored' shape. I happen to have a good relationship with Mike Smith of East Coast Rovers, and asked him if he'd go down and do an official appraisal on the truck. He agreed, went down and the truck checked out extremely well in every regard save one. Yep, you guessed it. Patched and cracked frame. The asking price was 19,000. When he figured out I knew more about Rovers than he did (mind you this was a 3rd party selling and not Mr. Joel) his price dropped to 16,8. I had him shoot some photos, faxed a list of things I wanted him to show, etc... He returned 4 blurry photos taken on a disposable camera and they looked ok, considering... I mailed him my final offer of 13K citing a replacement frame was in order and explained a few of the costs involved. Not to mention a cross country drive, which in a LR was sure to be long. He called back a week later with a final counter offer of 15,5. I held at 13. He said that in two weeks it was going to be put up for the winter. I figured that if it was there next summer I'd offer him 12 and see what he said. A call to East Coast Rover about a month ago verified that it did indeed sell for 13,500. I guess after my offer he figured out that it wasn't worth what they were asking. Moral of that story: Have a QUALIFIED appraiser look at the car. Don't be afraid to dicker and haggle, and most important, don't be afraid to say NO. I'm glad I did. So, I found out through Gord'n Parrot about a guy near Seattle who had a 109 that he was hesitant to sell, but might have to due to unforseen circumstances. I called him up and asked him about his truck. He said that he'd had a lot of work done on it by Gord'n (who BTW in case you don't know is practically the best mechanic in the PNW), and wasn't sure if he wanted to sell. He was going to have the engine rebuilt, and even if he didn't he'd be somewhere between 10 and 11. I decided to wait and see how it panned out. Besides, I had plenty of leads on other trucks to follow. About 2 months later I saw an ad in the Oregonian with a 109 in Washington for sale at 10K. I didn't remember the ph# so I called. When he heard my voice and I said I was from Portland he reminded me that I'd spoken to him before (duh, now I feel really stupid), and began to recite all the stuff he'd had done since we talked (1200 bucks worth). So, I hurried up and drove to Seattle (he said he had other people coming) not wanting to let this one slip out from under me. While I was up there I went and saw Gord'n about the truck and he told me about all the work he'd done to it for the seller. I was impressed, and Gord'n told me that he was actually kind of mad that it was being sold. I think he had kind of a personal attatchment to it since he had done most of the work to it. Well, I went and saw it, drove it and put down a thousand bucks with a contract to return after thanksgiving with the balance. When I went to pick it up the seller looked very forlorn ( a good sign I figured that he was parting with a good truck) and I tried to ease the pain by taking him cash. I got the title, he got the money and I headed back to Gord'n's for the 500 mile engine rebuild oil change. A few people were there that knew the truck, knew the owner, and were just amazed at the price I was getting the truck for. Since I had the admiration of fellow Rover owners, not to mention the mechanic who had done all the work on it, I was feeling pretty good. I'm thrilled about the truck, and what's more, I didn't have to fly anywhere to get it, truck it back on a dolly, or have it shipped. I struck an even balance of good truck at the right price in the right location. Granted, I could have gotten an east coast truck at a cheaper price, but I wouldn't have the luxury of seeing it inexpensively, getting it home cheaply, and last but definitely not least, I would't know who did the work on it. I put a heap of trust in Gord'n, and he comes very highly reccomended by people in Portland. Oh, I'm also a firm believer in buying a truck (if you can) that someone else has put all the money into and driving it away knowing you have a solid rig. Even if it means paying a little extra. I must say though, that I don't have a garage, any fancy tools to work on a truck with, and my time is at a premium right now and I couldn't do a lot of work on a partial truck. So, for me a decent turn-key Rover that someone had the misfortune of having to sell was a great compromise. Now I've started the first major project which is to take apart the doors, strip them down to bare metal (the door frames that is), get rid of all the rust, prime and re-paint. Probably have to rattle-can the thing at first then spring for real paint later. I hope I have't bitten off more than I can chew. BTW is there a good way to recondition interior door trim? Probably better just to buy new. :( Sorry this was long, but if you read it this far you can only blame yourself :) Later, Michael From ey-postmaster@geis.com Thu Dec 7 18:04:00 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 18:04:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 7598364 Original Msg Id: 482990 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Thu 7-Dec-95 18:04 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From Bennett Leeds Thu Dec 7 11:22:31 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 11:22:31 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Disco Musings: Nits, problems, a recommendation, and some fun I've had my Disco almost a month now. Some nits that I haven't seen discussed before: 1) I wish the wheel base were 1" longer. The rear seat fits between the wheel wells rather than in front of them. No problem for adults, but child seats slide off the carpeted well housing, thus moving them towards the center 5-6". Thus, with 2 car seats back there, the middle spot is too tight for anyone under 6 years of age. (I understand what extending the wheel base would do to off-road performance.) 2) It's really hard to put car seats in the Disco. On most vehicles, you can thread the belt in, then pull to tighten it before you put the locking clip on. That doesn't work on the Disco - the belt doesn't slide either way when latched. The jump seats have a squeeze operated mechanism, but car seats aren't safe back there. 3) Sunroof switches are not illuminated. Surely a low-level glow wouldn't distract driving (doesn't on my other car with it). 4) Illogical layout and workings of other controls has already been discussed, but I'll add for '96s with fog lamps that the front fog lamp switch and the rear fog lamp switch are nowhere near each other. I think someone oddling the car is going to break my ashtray from trying to pull it out first someday. Problems: At about 2100 miles the "Check Engine" light came on. I was about 400 miles from home, but luckily there was a Land Rover center not too far (in Thousand Oaks, CA). They could not find what was wrong, however. Engine was running perfectly, I did not run out of gas at any time, and I was not traveling over 80 MPH for more than 20 minutes (the 3 major causes of the light coming on). Turns out that the "Check Engine" light is connected to the diagnostic systems for emissions (which are, I believe, required for '96 and beyond in US), so their guess is that the emissions dropped below standards for a brief spell. I have a funny feeling this will be the first of a large number of stops by the dealership to have my Check Engine light reset. And, a small assortment of so far minor problems. Fun: As my fellow LR owners rightly chide me, I haven't taken my Disco off road for anything more than some jaunts in the dirt and hills. While my Disco was being checked out, I walked around the center some. Next door was a Hummer dealership. The CTIS (Central Tire Inflation System) looked cool (among other things) but it sure looks cramped in those front seats (not to mention being so far apart from each other). Ooddles of ground clearance, of course. In front of the Rover center, however, they had a short man-made "road" built (actually, a man-made off-road). 30 degree hills, 8" high rocks, railroad ties etc. It was blocked by a few cars. After my car was ready, I asked if the track was just for show. Next thing I know, they've moved the cars, the general manager introduces himself, and we're in my Disco heading for it. How'd I do? Lousy. I now know why auto trans are better for off-road (mine's a stick). A few stalls and one minor frame scrape the first time through (the GM even correctly guessed what had scraped). I noticed from the brochure that 1st in the manual is geared lower than first in the auto - but the auto has got a torque converter to make up for that. I imagine a big help just worrying about brake and gas and not stalling. Only one stall, but much smoother the second time. Trick was to almost never use the clutch - to keep the vehicle moving at all times (and first in low is pretty slow at 1K rpm). My second time was nothing to write home about, but it was 100% better than my first pass. In one way the forced discipline to keep going actually helped me out. I jokingly asked if the neighboring dealers wanted to take Monteros or Troopers, etc. through the course. He smiled and said they hadn't yet asked him. I did notice that the track wasn't wide enough for a Hummer, though. Everyone one at the Thousand Oaks Center was very friendly. They answered all my questions, looked things up for me that were completely unrelated to the service, etc. - even though they knew I was No. CA. Of course, they washed my car. I hear that San Jose is going to be a LR Center as well. That's great, but the people at the Thousand Oaks dealership are much better, both from their LR knowledge as well as from their disposition. Maybe they have a harder time selling the cars - I noticed more than a couple of '95 Discos still on the lot - that's too bad. - Bennett '96 Disco 5 spd. From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Dec 7 11:36:50 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:36:50 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Roof Rack Load Limits Rover Netizens: There's been much discussion about load limits on roof racks. Most of the questions have been about the load limits for racks mounted on new breeds of Land-Rovers. What I have to say pertains to racks mounted on the rain gutters of Series Land-Rovers (and Defenders that have metal roofs). Ever wonder what actually happens when you overload a rack? Well, I did overload one and know what happened. I have a custom-made expedition rack for an 88. It is somewhat longer than the roof. It mounts to the rain gutter via machine screws through holes in the gutter, up into the bottoms of the legs of the rack (via welded-in captive nuts) (an arrangement that I don't like and plan to change before I put in on another Land-Rover). This rack is quite substantial, made of 1/2" x 1" rectangular steel tubing, painted rather than galvanized (and now rather rusty). All legs are angle-braced along the sides and the end legs are gusseted to the cross rails as well. Until I bought a pickup truck for work use, I had to use my Land-Rover 88 and either a trailer or my roof rack to haul everything. I was at the local lumber yard getting a load of particle board underlayment. Anyone who's messed with it knows this stuff is quite heavy. I don't remember now how many sheets I put up there but quite a few, say maybe 15 sheets of 5/8" particle board. It looked OK when loaded. But by the time I got home (only about 6-8 blocks away) damage had occurred. Some of the angle braces (only at the ends of the rack) were stressed out so that they became more hexagonal than rectangular (they are still that way). But worse than that was the damage to the Land-Rover roof. The side panels of the roof were too stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere. The somewhere is the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows. The aluminum sheeting cracked at these corners. And I think there was some very slight stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well. Nothing fatal: The sliding windows still worked OK and the damage was not conspicuous. Still, not something you'd want to do to a really cherry Rover. Mine was a working vehicle and I was still not pleased. I'd rather get my panel damage the time-honored way, out on the trail, thank you very much. Of course, the load I put on it at the lumber yard is way beyond the sort of load I'd even remotely consider putting on my rack for trail driving. I have carried four jerry cans (6-US gallon) of fuel and one (6-US gallon) of water plus a good pile of other gear and then gotten up and walked around on it (235 lbs clothed and booted) with no ill effects. And I found it pretty stable driving, too, with my wide tires (10.50s on 8" rims). So these roofs can take a lot of weight but do have limits. YMMV. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Thu Dec 7 12:44:27 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:44:27 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: re: buying Land Rovers >A third trend, at least in CA, is that pre-1966 Rovers don't have to be >Smogged. As Smog laws get tougher and tougher, those Rovers, or atleast >the serial numbers thereof, will have more valuable. How many "pre-1966 SIIA" >SIIIs have you seen lately? I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. Also, is anyone familiar with the California Laws? Since pre-66 cars are smog exempt, does that mean one can import a pre-66 vehicle from the UK without government interference? Sometimes I feel pretty fed up with all the U.S. regulations in what's supposely a free country. Seems like all the fun cars are in England, while all we get here are Toyota Camry's and Ford Taurus'! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 08 07:55:00 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 07:55:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster James Thanks for all that info. I'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether I should galvanise or not at the moment. Yesterday I spoke with a number of Land Rover types here in Sydney and the general consensus was "you just don't need to do it". As you pointed out we don't have salted roads, and the metal has to be spotlessly clean to avoid any little pockets of rust being trapped. I have yet to be convinced this is the way to go. One chap (who has 20!!! Series 1's including a handful of '48's [one of which is 1208 - 1206 sold for 30,000 pounds in the UK earlier this year]) suggested that if you are rebuilding to 'factory spec' you would certainly loose points for having a galvanised chassis and that a good blasting (sand or bead) job was sufficient. Any thoughts out there on the subject?? Hope that all makes sense, we had our company Christmas party last night and the brains only firing on two at the moment!! Beer and red wine really don't mix well!! ....and I walked home! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) ---------- From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Dec 07 14:03:34 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 14:03:34 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) Ray, I don't have a lot of time to answer any specific questions right now, but this is a posting that I made after buying my 109 in New York state and driving it back home to Arizona. BTW, the frame was described to me as "good", and there were actually holes in it, and parts that I poked my finger through! Best to have a LR owner check it out for you! There are people all over the world on this list, I had another in NY offer to drive 2+ hours each way to check this one out for me, but I declined. I've checked out two LR's here in the Phoenix area for others, one was a '56 series I (I found in the paper, SHOULD have bought this one myself!) that the guy bought and LOVES, the other is a Carawagon (sort of like a Doormobile) that I think is still for sale. ($13K but in excellent condition!) ======================== included text ============================== Hello all! I've been looking for a Land Rover 109 for many months, and had finally found the "perfect" truck. It's a 1970 series IIa Land Rover, dual heaters, seating for 11 people. Good condition, with only a few minor tears in the upholstery, and a small tear in the headliner ("L" shaped with each leg around 1"). Door panels with map pockets, overdrive, rebuilt trans, not that much rust, (one of the outriggers is rusted through, but still relatively solid, and one front "horn" section of the frame has some relatively serious rust.) Only noticeable problem areas were that the fuel gauge and speedometer/odometer didn't work, and rear heater not working, and one unmistakable problem that I could not possibly "live with" was the brakes. It took two pumps of the petal before ANY brake action took place! It was a scary event just trying to stop at the end of the driveway! I assumed that it was bleeding, but decided to take it in and have it checked out by Rovers north in Vermont, since it was right on the way! Oh yeah! One "minor" complication.... I live in Phoenix Arizona, and the truck is in upstate New York! The actual sale had a rough beginning for me. The PO sent photos, I e-mailed back, he answered questions, etc... and then when I was ready to say yes, he'd sold it! Well... eventually the deal fell through, and I was able to acquire it, so a few faxes, check in the mail, plane tickets (I took my 15 yr old son), and we were there! (This REALLY is much condensed!) We arrived late in the afternoon on Tuesday May 2nd, so the first night I only went as far as Burlington Vermont, so I could stop in at Rovers North in the morning. My son and I took turns sleeping in the rear, and front seat of the 109. The front seat is WAY too short for sleeping in but worked for now. In the morning, I got directions to Rovers North, and off we went. I passed up Rovers North, and my son shouted "There it is!", so I had to turn around in a farmers field. Rovers North is in the "middle of nowhere" along a road, in a barn! That's not quite what I expected, or was looking for, but what the heck! The people at RN were very helpful, and we had a very pleasant experience there. I told them of the brake problem, and they informed me that they had a waiting list for service of around 6 weeks! DOOH!! I explained the situation, and the service manager called out his mechanic to check it out. One step of the petal and he informed me that it wasn't bleeding. He drove off, and left me in suspense, but I figured, well, what ever it was, I had to have it done, so I waited. It wasn't difficult waiting, as there were numerous Rovers to examine, 88's, 109's, military units, 110's, even an imported 110 (1989, I think) for sale! I was drooling! I'd never seen one that was not the US spec sold in '93. One of their staff, Lanny, who was off for that day had stopped by, and he knew the PO, and even the PO prior to that, and recollected that this Rover came from Buines Aries? (I think?? Or was that Bahama? Bermuda maybe?? Bolivia?? Darn my memory!!! &-%$&-!!) This verifies the suspicions of the PO that I bought it from, and explains the Mexican and central American maps that were in it when he bought it. (Also, the speedometer is in kilometers/hr.) After a short while, (seemed really short, anyway, but could have been a long time, as I was totally occupied talking to the guys, and checking out all the Rovers) the truck was ready. "Oh! What was wrong?" I asked. The brakes only needed adjusting! They also noticed that the rear drive shaft (propeller shaft) had the wrong bolts, and caused a lot of play. They replaced these as well, and told me that the rear end had a lot of play, and eventually would need replacing or rebuilt. I didn't want to do too much rough 4-wheeling with the truck being so far from home, but near Rovers North, I found some sandy little trails meant for 3 wheelers and quads, but I couldn't resist the temptation to give the old girl a spin in the dirt. Well, I didn't need to put her in 4 wheel drive, but had a fun time going through the trails. Some were a series of hills, around 3 feet tall, spaced about 8 feet apart. Lots of wheel articulation! The old girl did very well, but creaked and clunked with each bump due to the spring mounting bushings being bad. Sounded kind of like a *loud* popcorn maker! Would have been embarrassing had anyone been around. ;-) I had been warned by the PO that the fuel gauge didn't work, but that there was a little warning when it started to run out. Well, as luck would have it, a few miles after passing a fuel station, it started to sputter. Remembering what the PO had said, I quickly attempted a 3 point turn (did I mention the turning radius was 47 feet!?? No joke!) I totally died when the truck was almost perpendicular to the road, and inclined at a fairly good angle with the front on the high side. Walked to town and returned with a gallon. Still nothing. Presuming that there was just not enough to get to the fuel pick up, I went with my son, and we brought back 2 more gallons. Still nothing. Hmmmm.... By now, I think I flooded it, and the battery was beginning to show serious signs of fatigue! Some "locals" stopped to help, and offered to pull start us with a cable that they had. This started it right up, but then when I pulled over on a LEVEL part of the shoulder, it once again died! Now wait just a doggone minute! This CAN'T be a fuel problem! Well, back to basics... I popped the distributor cap, and voilla! the wire to the points was disconnected, and just hanging there, only making sporadic contact. It took all of about 90 seconds to find the problem, and only a few minutes to fix, and she started right up. Total time "wasted"about 4 hours. Bought a 5 gallon fuel can at the next available city, "just in case". Well, on we went, towards Mt. Washington (recommended by "Lanny" at Rovers North). We arrived at Mt. Washington around 6:00pm, and the "auto road" to the top was closed. Well... a slight change of plans, we proceeded to Cameron Maine since neither of us had ever been to the Atlantic ocean. Saw the ocean, (but overslept, and missed the sunrise) and after around half a day, went back to Mt. Washington. This time, we arrived before closing, and took the "auto road" to the "top". Around half way up, the road was CLOSED! What??? But I have a Land Rover! I can make it! Sigh.... no understanding, these park ranger dude's. Well, still, it was pretty. VERY steep road too! The admission charge included a tape of facts about the road and such things. Even mentioned "A" 4 wheel drive vehicle that was the first to make it to the top in the dead of winter without snow chains (or something like that), but neglected to say that it was a Land Rover!!! Boy! I was "slightly irritated"! WE proceeded via the "Kancamagus Highway" and then, onwards to Montreal Canada. Montreal was a BEAUTIFUL city, as far as modern buildings, lit up reflecting on the river and all, but everyone seemed to drive VERY fast! (And I thought I was a fast driver!) All road signs in French, (not a language I can read or write), and expensive petrol, (at least by US standards) I went directly to Sault Ste. Marie to cross over to northern Michigan. I planned out the fuel purchase so that I was real near empty (as far as I could figure) when I left Canada, so I got the first fuel I could find in the US. Little did I realize at the time, but I left the fuel cap in Northern Michigan somewhere. :-( I must have been "sleeping" when I was in Michigan, because I missed the turn off to go towards Wisconsin, and crossed into Michigan on the wrong side of lake Michigan. I was clueless, until I saw a sign saying "Detroit 200 miles". SCREEEEEECH! (Well, the sound of brakes squeaking, not tires! Talk about "anti-lock" brakes!) One u-turn (not the only one on the trip!) and another toll, several more hours wasted, and we were on the right track! Once in Wisconsin, at my sister's farm in Fall River, near Madison, I was able to fix the fuel gauge, (a broken connecter on the sending unit) and the rear heater (wire that was once spliced had come loose), and decided to install a throttle lock (aka "cruise control") that I removed from the other Rover I have at home. (Yes! Robed it from the "88".) Fate once again took her toll, (What I deserve for cannibalizing the "88") and I drilled through the clutch line to the slave cylinder. Dooh!! Had to wait until Monday for parts store to open, then had to re-use my line ends and they made a "new" line for me. To add insult to injury, the throttle lock wouldn't fit right, so it never got installed. The remainder of the trip was rather uneventful, lots of beautiful sights, snow, lots of people staring at the Rover... a great time! Total distance traveled (using milage charts, and adding numbers on maps) over 4600 miles! Not bad for a 25 year old truck! (Am I dumb? Or what??) Land Rover sightings other than at Rovers North: 1-88 (vermont) 1-109 (Vermont-red, parked behind a barn) 1-Disco in Montreal, and 1-110 in Moab Utah, (#466/500) (I can't wait to get back to Moab Utah. Very beautiful!) and about 12-18 Range Rovers. (One RR owner offered to trade, but I don't think he was really serious.) Trip statistics: (somewhat estimated) ;-) # of vehicles that I passed, around 12 (many of these re-passed me on the level roads.) # of vehicles that passed me: 550. Maximum speed: 80ish? downhill. Minimum speed up steep hills: around 25, 2nd gear, floored. (Actually, on a long hill climb, 3rd was too slow, and 2nd would wind out, so I ended up at around 3/4 throttle in 2nd.) (This didn't make a lot of people very happy with me!) :( And offers to buy the ole gal: 2, one was very serious! Why doesn't anyone want my Disco?? Thanks for the ear... Dave. #=====# #========# ------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--'| | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _|--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\__|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500) (Too hard to "draw") #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead =========================== end of included text ========================= I forgot to mention in the original posting, but the ONLY tools I brought with were: 1 phillips screwdriver, 1 regular screwdriver, pliers, vice grips, and a hammer. I had heard talk of "whitworth threads" and figured none of the wrenches I had would fit anyway. Reminds me of "Forest Gump" "Stupid is as stupid does." But I did bring one vital thing... God! Having no radio provides a lot of opportunity to pray. Please feel free to e-mail me if you have any more questions. Am I glad I bought the 109? YES!!! What can I say! I'm a Land Rover owner! (AKA CRAZY!) Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Treit Le 7 95 Dec 1914 Date: 7 Dec 95 14:14:45 From: Treit Le Subject: Miscellaneous So I just dropped the '95 Classic for it's first oil change at 5K miles. And to get some squeaks, rattles, and the dreaded cellular phone call blocking wind noise taken care of. My receipt for the squeaks and rattles is 5 pages long!!! On the plus side they gave me a 20k mile Pathfinder as a loaner. Kinda wimpy. I definitely feel like I made the right choice. There were a few D90 hardtops at the dealer. All white, all $32,625 with no options. Dunno how many were sold. The top seems to be fiberglass, not aluminum using the knuckle test. Am I wrong? Reason why IIA's in the US should not appreciate that much in price - Can't they be imported from England with much BS because of their age? Where parts, gavanized frames and restorations are more reasonably priced and readily available. I figured on getting a real cheap RHD D110 or CT Defender in about 20 years. From Kevan Shaw Sun Dec 17 21:54:08 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 21:54:08 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Jacking Points Robert Virzi asked that I post the info about Disco jacking points: The company is NSC Design, 1 Mid Road Industrial Estate, Prestonpans, East Lothian EH32 9ER Scotland, Phone, +44 1875 815400, answerphone on this number so leave a message. The company is run by a keen Disco driver who I have seen take his vehicle places where only a trials motor should go! Apart from the jacking points he does bridging ladders, ground anchor pickets and hold fasts and numerous other recovery bits. The last list I have prices the jacking points at =A331 whics is less than $50, much better than those chain lifting things that bend bumpers! Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Dec 7 17:59:56 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:59:56 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Things that go bump in the night On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying *that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard a disturbing "karunch" from the left rear. "That sounds like the spring hanger parting company," sez I. It was. :-0 Not that it was any surprise...I've had a galvanized rear cross member sitting in the garage for well over two years from now. I just didn't want to go though the exercise *right now.* Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be appreciated. I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one of the club chaps. Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see how that's possible. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Dec 07 15:25:42 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:25:42 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) Dave, Great story!! Always wondered what it would be like to go east and pick up a 109. You had a lot of confidence in the Rover to go 4,600 mi, and apparently well deserved. Good goin' :) Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Ray Harder Thu Dec 7 17:47:40 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:47:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote: > Subject: Things that go bump in the night > Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one > of the club chaps. 1. you can get (at least i did) a version of the same cutoff blades for the big electric grinder that fit into the little air cutoff tool. they really can cut metal close and FAST. i can chalk out a small area using a short piece of 3/32" 2" or 3" strap as a pattern. I cut it out with the electric grinder setup. i then use a magnet designed for welding to hold the piece of 2" / 3" strap into place. there is about a 1/8" gap which is perfect for butt welding. grind down the welds, paint, and you can't see it, yet it is strong. with these tools, gas ox/ac cutting is not needed. 2. the "guide to purchase and restoring a landrover" book has a section on rear crossmember replacement. one thing they did that i didn't was to fashon a jig from angle iron. it was positioned when the old crossmember was still on and accurately held the position (of the tailgate hinge holes, for example) for reassembly. i made x/y measurements with a steel tape, but their method is superior. Lindsey Porter was the author... 3. if you do take the tub off or lift it up some, you can use method #1 above to replace some weak areas that might be in the top (or bottom) of the longitutional members of the frame near the rear spring mounts. 4. the rear crossmember i got had pre-installed tabs that help in attaching. at the time, i was wondering how you could do it without the tabs. i was un-impressed with the guage of metal -- i would have used thicker, but that was then. ray harder (siia 88 (lulu)) (the money is in the mail for ROAV membership!) From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Dec 07 15:55:29 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:55:29 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Roof Rack Load Limits Granville Pool wrote: [Damage to Series/Defender LRs via overloaded roof racks] But worse than that was the damage to the Land-Rover roof. The side panels of the roof were too stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere. The somewhere is the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows. The aluminum sheeting cracked at these corners. And I think there was some very slight stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well. Come to think of it, I recently noticed the same damage on mine. But I'm fairly sure that the damge came from striking a thick tree branch (8+ inches in diameter) with the rack while driving off road at Hollister. I think the LR book for Africa (don't have a copy on my desk--its at home) lists a suggested roof rack limit of 100 or 200 lbs for Series LRs. Not saying that the limit is strength limited, but due to roll over risks. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Gary Mitchelson Thu Dec 07 19:17:41 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 19:17:41 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: 10,000 miles on Discovery -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Well, I've passed the 10,000 mile mark on my '95 Disco. To date I have not had a problem with it. Am I doing something wrong? It has only been off-road 4 times so far. Can't wait for the snow. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Thu Dec 7 20:01:13 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:13 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Galv. parts In reference to the recent talk about galvanising your own chassis. I agree with all the discussion about removing paint, etc.. The only three things I would like to add that we have heard of, and experienced are... > Be very thorough in your rust repair. The acid step in the galv. process eats rust, even the rust you can't see. Make sure your repaired chassis is ready, with everything made as good as you can make it. > We have had some minor problems with damaged parts. Most galv. companies are set up as large industrial businesses, and they do parts like light poles, gaurd rails, etc. tons at a time. Some campanies are small enough to be careful with your parts, but make sure you tell them that your frame is sort of fragile, and needs to return in the same form you drop it off in. On my trips to the galv. company we use, I have seen quite a few things dropped from fork lifts, dragged across parking lots, etc.. Make sure you give them special instructions to be careful. > You also need to locate any air pockets, closed off areas, in your frame. This is what causes the explosions and bulging talked about by another contributor. If you find a closed off section, drill a few holes in it, this will help eliminate bulging or possible damage. Good luck, and happy galvanising! Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co. From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Thu Dec 7 20:31:14 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:31:14 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night >On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying >*that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >appreciated. I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle >grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one >of the club chaps. Sandy, The best advice I could give you is to make sure you have a respirator with the right filters and a well ventilated area before you start welding the new galvanized member on. The vapors from molten zinc are very dangerous. (My money is not in the mail yet for a ROAV membership) Cheers, Randall From Duncan Brown Thu Dec 07 21:58:23 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 21:58:23 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night Sandy, > Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to > weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see > how that's possible. You're right, it isn't possible. And yet, Randy at RN managed to do just that when he welded my new rear crossmember on at the last rally they had up there 3 years ago or whenever that was. The real trick is doing it with the wiring harness in place. He only lit it on fire once, and then only briefly, heh heh... You might see if they'll let you talk to Randy, I'm sure he can describe his technique in better detail than I can. I do have some before-during-after pictures of him doing mine if it would help you to see those. Duncan From TONY YATES Fri Dec 8 11:35:52 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:35:52 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: re: buying Land Rovers On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com wrote: > I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are > very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the > UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression > I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. Series Land Rovers are fairly common in Oz (though not as common as in UK), are usually in pretty good condition (they don't rust here, at least not in Western Australia), and are reasonably priced. There are usually a few in the weekend classifieds in Perth each week, priced anywhere from A$1000 to $8000 depending on age and condition. (A$8000 will buy a very nice SIII, current exchange rate I think is around A$1=US$0.67). Parts here are reasonable, though a bit more expensive than UK, and are easy to obtain. We are pretty lucky here as far as rust goes. I would think that galvanising would be unnecessary. Both IIas I have owned were 20 years old with only small rust patches on the rear X-member and front dumb irons on the first and *no* rust at all on the second. Went to Karijini National Park last weekend. Not much 4wding to be had, it was just too dry, though some of the tracks and creek crossings looked like they might be interesting after a bit of rain. The country is basically rugged gorges, hot nad very dry, although most of the gorges have water in them, even now which is the end of the dry season. We hiked along a few and had swims in a few nice pools. It was hot. Daytime temps were around 47C(120F), and it was 35C(98F) in the tent at midnight. One of the pools, Handrail Pool, is accessed by walking through a very narrow chasm, 3ft wide, 150ft high, which opens up into an amphitheatre about 150ft across full of water. Very nice when it's stinking hot and you desperately need a swim, not very nice when it's guarded by a very aggro western brown snake (rather poisonous). =:-( It was also very hot driving home the next day, temp gauge sat just over half which I thought was pretty good, but I really must get that A/C fixed!!!! Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Dec 07 23:35:57 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 23:35:57 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Al waters his oil... > What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and > routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 > wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to > ingest water......double ick! - No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the frame... Cheers Mike From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 7 23:51:51 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 23:51:51 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: How many are left ?? All; I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future???? any thoughts, comments appreciated Thanks..........Holiday Cheer to All Steve WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Dec 8 16:14:04 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:14:04 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: breather pipe routing > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... No No Mike you've still got it wrong! Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming dixon either.. What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle terminating Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe. That way you cant distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door. cheers -- Daryl From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Dec 07 22:38:21 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 22:38:21 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: How many are left ?? In message <199512080452.XAA04080@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > All; I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how > many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's > anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future???? > any thoughts, comments appreciated If we could get the parts vendors to agree to let a neutral party pool thier databases, we'd have a good guess. But the likelyhood of that happening is very small, at best. In general, the guess is that 16,000 Series Land Rovers were imported to North America up to 1974. Since then there have been various Series Rovers imported, but I have no idea as to the quauntity. A gut feel guess, based on zero data would be no more than 50 per year (on average), making the total number of Series Rovers imported to be about 17,000. A number of years ago the guess was the between 8,000 and 12,000 of the origional 16,000 imported were left, with maybe 4,000 registers for road use. Lately there have been a lot of restorations, so that number may be significantly up. Now to the question at hand. For the period of 1959 to 1963 there are no records asto how many Rovers were sold in North America. In 1964, 952 were sold. In the period of 1949 to 1958 the best guess by the experts are that about 100 Rovers were sold per year. James Taylor claims that the 952 sale number was greater than previous years. In 1965, 1840 Rovers were sold in NA. So in 1960, somewhere between 100 and 900 Rovers were sold, many of which I think were 88s. So, the upper bound would have to be 300 (plus additional imports). *My* guess is 100 or 200 to start with, and an unknown number have survived. What data is known is listed in the FAQ: http://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.3.LR_sales_US.html or ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/FAQ/LR_FAQ.3 (If you know of any addition concrete data, please send it to Dixon or I so we can update the FAQ.) If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 states on the word Rover.... Just to put all of this in prespective LRNA's goals for US sales in 1995 was 12,000 Discos, 5,000 Range Rovers (mk2), 1,500 D90s and 1,900 Range Rover Classics. (This was in either LRO or LRW a few months back). I wonder how close they made it. Maybe Jim Pappas could clue us in... Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From TONY YATES Fri Dec 8 14:37:48 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:37:48 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: breather pipe routing On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... No No Mike you've still got it wrong! Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming dixon either.. What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle terminating Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe. That way you cant distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door. Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you have - *afterburner* Tony (supersonic) 110 V8. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Dec 8 17:53:20 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:53:20 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: breather pipe routing Tony advises: > Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you > have - *afterburner* Thought about the inject bit but I figured the plastic pipe would melt, and there was no way I was going to use anything morFrom wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Fri Dec 08 09:06:57 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 09:06:57 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: "Scarved for live" should be "Scarred .." > alive? I thought those new Landies had better > heaters. :-) > -Dave "reaching" Well, I had it all wrong! :-( So, there were I wrote scarved you have to read scarred. I hope it makes sense now. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarred for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From "geoffrey.m.halaburt" 7 95 Dec 1922 Date: 7 Dec 95 22:16:28 From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt" Subject: Re: 94 D90 Misc. >> Re: Roofracks. There has been a recent thread on Disco roof racks. Does anyone have the D90 LRNA/Thule roof rack system. I saw it advertised in the Rovers North Christmas flyer--it attaches to the roll cage above the doors, a novel idea. I am wondering if they will continue to make this base unit much longer, given the lack of production of the D90 in the future. I.e. should buy one soon, or if there are other solutions which work based on more readily available racks.<< I've had the custom Thule mounts since I got my D90 (8/94). They're great. I have 4 of the Thule bike mounts (model 921?) on it and it's rock solid when loaded up. The 2 crossbars can be removed easily with only a simple allen wrench. It's also nice that the mounts don't interfere with the top (soft) at all including top removal/mounting). Two caveats: clearance for garages, etc. is reduced from about 6'10" to 7'2" (with no bikes on it obviously), and getting bikes up there, especially nearer to the vehicle's center is a REACH. Even someone my height (6'5") appreciates the side step/guards for getting bikes up there. -Geoff From Roger Sinasohn Fri Dec 8 00:45:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 00:45:44 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: UK Claymation Show? (Non-LR -- Sorry!) My sister, the one who brought me back the Britains model discovery, (<-- mandatory LR content!) saw a show while she was over there and wants to know what it was called, and is it on here in the states. It is a claymation show about a farm, with an old grey horse and three mice from London. And Ducks, and cows, and pigs and other farm-type stuff. She thinks it was something like "Four Wind Farm" or something like that. If any of our brethren across the pond has any info on it, please e-mail me. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Fri Dec 8 10:01:26 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:01:26 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: L-ROVERS IN THE MOVIES Everyone (and Chris Youngston) The LR FC in the "Sands of Kalahari" movie then belonged to Wolf Haake, a long standing member of the LROC of SA. It is a forward control (home made double cab) with a SWB rear load body on. He hired the vehicle to the movie people who inturn payed him many monies. The vehicle is now owned by a Safari tour operator in Namibia (South West Africa). Cheers Brian Cotton LROC of SA SIII T I Diesel LBW camper SIII Diesel SWB From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Fri Dec 8 08:31:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:31:00 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Boxpops Stephen wrote: Sometimes, major problems have very simple solutions. Let's hope this is the case here. I had the same problem with Rudolph this summer. I was installing carpets (latin for sound-deadening material) in the cab. I had to remove the yellow knob and spring to be able to do so. Some time after that, when I tried to engage 4WD (in the Hi position), the selector kept popping up. I thought: Oh-Oh! transfer box problems.... But no! It was just the spring under the yellow knob that was "screwed" in too far away in the transmission tunnel cover. Maybe that is the problem. Hope I can help. Michel Bertrand Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada 1963 109 PU (Rudolph) 1968 109 SW Nada (in the works) 1973 88 SW (21st century project) From rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Sat Dec 9 08:40:53 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 08:40:53 -0500 From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Subject: Roof rack limits Roverites- I just happened to get a brochure from SafariGard last night (Thanks Greg and Brandi!). The show a roof rack with, from memory, 600+ lbs rating. I assume the roof is capable of holding the load, Granville's story not withstanding. (Actually, I guess the roof didn't withstand it in that case ;-). The other safarigard stuff is quite impressive. I tactfully left it out with for Ms. Claus to see, and armed the kids with lots of arguments why the front bumper with skid plates would be a way cool xmas gift. I can provide better descriptions and prices if anyone is interested. One note, I was surprised by the high-ish price of the rock sliders (~$600). Perhaps I don't understand how much metal or fabricating is required, but I'd have guessed closer to a $400 price point. Still, the stuff they have for rovers is extremely impressive, and anyone looking to equip a disco for offroad performance may want to give them a call (909)698-6114. Happy roverin'. -Bob rvirzi@gte.com Think Globally. === +1(617)466-2881 === Act Locally! From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Fri Dec 8 08:06:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:06:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Front receivers Hi Gerry, I saw your post on the front receiver. I am seriously considering this too. I have been for quite a while actually, I just haven't gotten around to it :-). A couple of questions: . Does it reduce the front clearance significantly? . How much did it set you back (moneywise)? I've also seen advertised a bull bar set up where the front receiver is mounted between the two verticle posts of the bull bars just above the bumber. Anybody have experience with this latter setup? Cheers, -Christian ------------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery chrisz@bnr.ca Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From ey-postmaster@geis.com Fri Dec 8 13:33:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 13:33:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 1276324 Original Msg Id: 484658 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Fri 8-Dec-95 13:33 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 09:00:46 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 09:00:46 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Al waters his oil... > What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and > routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 > wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to > ingest water......double ick! - No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the frame... Wait a darn minute! You've all got it wrong. In the late sixties, Land-Rover offered a PCV/PTO driven whiskey still. Simply mount the still in place of the air filter, route the filler neck hose to the still. Fill the sump with water and the grain of your choice. After a few hundred miles, attach the hose from the PTO driven pump to the still and out comes glorious Genuine Land-Rover Scotch. I've seen it in action and "boy, let me tell you" that is a damn fine product! Just call Bruce at DAP and ask him for one. He's got a couple laying around, but they won't last long! Dave "Uncle Jesse" Bobeck From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 8 Dec 95 7:46:35 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Re: Venting the crankcase into the frame: Yes, and the first time the chassis gets water in it the engine sucks it up as it cools..... No thanks, I've had enough oil mousse for this week....8*) ajr From Steve Thomas 8 95 Dec GMT 1912 Date: 8 Dec 95 12:00:33 GMT From: Steve Thomas Subject: Trivia? Er well not really....... Ok ok ok.......so it's not exactly Rover-related You see Sarah's company does this Christmas quiz thing, and last year Sarah's office won. So now they want to win again and I just thought, seeing how trivia related the list is, maybe someone could come up with the answer to this..... what+what = ptc? Anyone got any (sensible!) suggestions for what ptc (lower case) stands for? Friday's have a lot to answer for.... Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~\ || / || \ || ||_____/_____||_____\_____|| |_|________|____|________|_| /~---__ ______________ __---~\ |~~~~~~~| /=\|####|/=\ |~~~~~~~| | o o | \=/|####|\=/ | o o | | EAB |##############| | Stephen Thomas |_836B__|##############|_______| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \____________________________/ 0121-452-1405 |~_-_~|----\___/-------|~_-_~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy' : Classic car, definitely ~---~ ~---~ not a daily driver :)] From GElam30092@aol.com Fri Dec 8 10:45:40 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:45:40 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Off road 4 times? You wrote: Well, I've passed the 10,000 mile mark on my '95 Disco. To date I have not had a problem with it. Am I doing something wrong? It has only been off-road 4 times so far. Can't wait for the snow." What's snow got to do with going off-road! If I waited for snow, I'd never get off-road! :>) Get that Land Rover off-road before we turn you over to the KROAKE (Keeping Rovers On Asphalt Kills 'Em) Society. Gerry "Phoenix: high-today: 75" Elam From GElam30092@aol.com Fri Dec 8 10:45:31 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:45:31 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Re: Front receivers (I wasn't clear so this may help) The receiver itself doesn't reduce the clearance a bit! That's the good news. It fits nice and neat between the air dam and the bumper. The clearance is only reduced when you add the winch. Once the winch is added, picture a cement block attached to your bumper... sticks out about 8 inches level and is level with the bottom of the bumper. I've never seen the other setup you mentioned. (In response to a mail item "I've also seen advertised a bull bar set up where the front receiver is mounted between the two verticle posts of the bull bars just above the bumber.") But it seems that the lever action of pulling about a foot higher than the attachment point would be significant. It would have to be very, very sturdy to hold up under stress conditions. I like my setup better even though I have to think ahead about what I'm driving into and decided if I want to stop and attach the winch. Good Luck.. Gerry E. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 8 Dec 95 10:47:04 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Various folks speculate on where to stick the oil vent hose, but David expounds: >Wait a darn minute! You've all got it wrong. In the late > sixties, Land-Rover offered a PCV/PTO driven [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > is a damn fine product! Just call Bruce at DAP and > ask him for one. He's got a couple laying around, > but they won't last long! Hold it, hold it, hold it..... I may be DUMB, but I ain't STUPID..... ths one stretches even MY credulity. A good entry for the Anti-FAQ, though..see to it, will you, Dixon? 8*) > Dave "Uncle Jesse" Bobeck "Dukes of Hazzard" - you mean somebody else was dumb enough to watch it? aj"I much preferred Daisy..."r From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 12:15:05 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 12:15:05 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Off road 4 times? What's snow got to do with going off-road! If I waited for snow, I'd never get off-road! :>) Get that Land Rover off-road before we turn you over to the KROAKE (Keeping Rovers On Asphalt Kills 'Em) Society. Gerry "Phoenix: high-today: 75" Elam Of course city dwellers are exempt from this due to some potholes being equivalent to off roading. I drove down New York Avenue the other day and I'm quite sure the rear axle was airborne (hence off the road) several times. I actually got scared! Dave"Depends"Bobeck (see Al, I can even yank my own chain...) From lopezba@atnet.at Fri Dec 8 18:49:50 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:49:50 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Synthetics Oscar wrote: >Subject: Synthetics >What do you guys think of using synthetic, engine/transmission, under the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >omont@mnl.sequel.net >75247.2423@compuserve.com >Philippines I think the question is not so much driving condition as age and state of the engine. If the vehicle is old (e.g. a Series Land-Rover), the engine was constructed with a relatively thick oil in mind and will not run well with synthetic oil. If the vehicle is newer but the engine is not well-maintained, the synthetic oil might dissolve a lot of residue that actually keeps the engine running by providing compression of a sort. In all other cases that I canm think of synthetic oil is absolutely worth its price. BTW, this is worth what you paid for it! Greetings Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W (30 deg F, 15 cm/6 inches of snow) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 8 Dec 95 12:43:15 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Urban off-roading With deference to those who think off-roading requires dirt, jackrabbits and other such undesirable things, I welcome any comments on same from anyone who regularly drives the streets and highways of Boston. When I can get lifted out of my seat by the roughness of the "patches" on Rutherford Avenue approaching the Gilmore Bridge, rocks and dirt look mighty good.... aj"Thank God for Diesel springs"r >Of course city dwellers are exempt from this due to some > potholes being equivalent to off roading. I drove > down New York Avenue the other day and I'm quite > sure the rear axle was airborne (hence off > the road) several times. I actually got scared! > Dave"Depends"Bobeck > (see Al, I can even yank my own chain...) Jerk, hell! That wasn't even a twitch..... aj"And then there's bumper cars with the taxis"r From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Dec 08 10:21:43 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 10:21:43 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! ajr wrote: [Stuff about Genuine Land Rover Scotch deleted] > Hold it, hold it, hold it..... I may be DUMB, but I ain't STUPID..... > ths one stretches even MY credulity. > A good entry for the Anti-FAQ, though..see to it, will you, Dixon? 8*) Dixon may not have seen it, but I have. I added it to the FAQ about 30 seconds ago... Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Guy Arnold Fri Dec 8 14:39:49 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:39:49 EDT From: Guy Arnold Subject: Re: Buying a Land-rover I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under $2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't know what her husband had for a vehicle. I know that when I bought my Series III for $1100.00 US I knew that I was going to spend another $3,000 to $4,000 plus my time to fix it up. That is the reason I bought the vehicle so I could fix it up my way and to learn as much as I could about the vehicle on a first wrench basis. I obviously didn't buy the vehicle because it is excellent driver, if I had wanted that I would have bought another BMW or Benz. I bought it because I could work on it myself and it will go just about anywhere. For me, 75% of the fun was rebuilding the vehicle. For shear fun driving on the road I will use my 1960 MGA roadster (another vehicle I can repair myself, no computer needed). If you don't want to work on these machines then by all means go through a garage or buy a completely rebuilt vehicle but be prepared to spend $7,000-$10,000. That is just the way the market works, supply and demand. Guy Arnold 1973 Series III swb 1960 MGA 1600 roadster From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 8 Dec 95 15:16:11 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: What do YOU call a good chassis? Here's a question for you..... Personally, I call 'em as I bend 'em - structural integrity is all. THe chassis under my 109 is best described as FUUUUUUGLY (translation by email for those who feel the need...). It's been repaired in several places by myself and POs, but it's sound, serious rust-free, and I'd have no qualms about taking up Kilimanjaro (with other tires...). I don't care about cosmetics. As LRO said when they did a buye's guide for the Series IIa machines, it's a damned rare vehicle that hasn't had some chassis welding done on it somewhere in its lifetime. The trick is to make sure it was done RIGHT, and not bodged. That's where the hammer comes in... aj"12-ga steel - not a patch, a REPAIR"r From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 15:58:47 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 15:58:47 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: What do YOU call a good chassis? To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Here's a question for you..... Personally, I call 'em as I bend 'em - structural integrity is all. THe chassis under my 109 is best described as FUUUUUUGLY (translation by email for those who feel the need...). It's been repaired in several places by myself and POs, but it's sound, serious rust-free, and I'd have no qualms about taking up Kilimanjaro (with other tires...). I don't care about cosmetics. As LRO said when they did a buye's guide for the Series IIa machines, it's a damned rare vehicle that hasn't had some chassis welding done on it somewhere in its lifetime. The trick is to make sure it was done RIGHT, and not bodged. That's where the hammer comes in... aj"12-ga steel - not a patch, a REPAIR"r Mine had many patches, some better than others, but some areas were beyond hope and certainly all could not have been done for under $500. (I don't have welder or welding skill) So a good used frame for $500 bucks was the way to go. Otherwise I would have just fixed it. In other words I didn't need a NEW frame, but I got a good deal on one, so I got it. Dave From DONOHUEPE@aol.com Fri Dec 8 16:33:29 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:33:29 -0500 From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... get land-rover-owner aaa.readme From "Tom Rowe" Fri Dec 8 16:08:49 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:08:49 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) FW: Holiday Fruitcake Recipe (hic!) (fwd) -Forward I know all you LR owners like good whiskey so thought you might like this for the holidays ahead. ******************************************************************** A friend emailed me this fruitcake recipe just in time for the holidays. Well, here's a cheery christmas recipe to get into the christmas spirit. Enjoy! HOLIDAY FRUIT CAKE RECIPE You'll need the following: a cup of water, a cup of sugar, four large eggs, two cups of dried fruit, a teaspoon of baking soda, a teaspoon of salt, a cup of brown sugar, lemon juice, nuts, and a bottle of whisky. Sample the whisky to check for quality. Take a large bowl. Check the whisky again. To be sure it is the highest quality, pour one level cup and drink. Repeat. Turn on the electric mixer, beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl. Add one teaspoon of sugar and beat again. Make sure the whisky is still okay. Cry another tup. Turn off the mixer. Break two leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit. Mix on the turner. If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers pry it loose with a drewscriver. Sample the whisky to check for tonsisticity. Next, sift two cups of salt. Or somefthing. Who cares? Check the whiskey. Now sift the lemonn juice and strain your nuts. Add one table. Spoon. Of sugar or somefing. Whatever you can find. Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees. Dontt forget to beat off the turner. Thfrow the bowl out of the window, check the whisky again and go to bed. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Fri Dec 8 17:53:45 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: Re: Urban off-roading Some of the best "off-roading" I've done was through the largest mall in town. Once was after hours, without the concent of security which involved stairs and the like and twice durring a British Car show in the mall where the IIA was on show. Slalom (sp?) between the plants and benches on nice white shinny marble is always a change. Navagating the food court was the most chalenging with all those chairs! Regards, Jay Kirkpatrick '55 Ser I '58 Ser II '70 Ser IIA From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 8 18:57:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:57:44 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Recall I just received a notice (Safety Recall #95V-155) in the mail today that Land Rover was recalling all '87-'91 Range Rovers with the 20 gallon fuel tank. The notice said that rust could start between the stone guard and the fuel tank and eventually cause leaking. I am happy because I have a dent in my tank and a piece of wood stuck between the stone guard and the tank (I ran over an old tree stump). The notice said that most failures were in area's with salt on the roads, but it would be replaced free of charge for all owners regardless of where you live or drive. It also said if you have already paid to have the tank replaced "kindly provide your dealer with a copy of your receipt for having the work performed and you will be reimbursed." Kevin Kelly '89 Range Rover From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Fri Dec 8 16:34:50 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 16:34:50 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: re: D90 SW update | We have none available after today. We are still taking deposits on the odd | change we can get extra units from LRNA, but we cannot guarantee people a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] | but again, no 1996 Defender... | Jim I'm confused about something: is Land Rover simply going to stop importing the D90 to the U.S. (at least for '96), or are they going to cease production of this vehicle all together? If it's the latter, what's the British army going to do, start driving around in Discoveries? Another thing that puzzles me is that, if there is enough demand for this vehicle, why doesn't LRNA just send more over to sell this year? After all, they've got all year next year to clear the inventory. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 08 95 Dec EST 1921 Date: 08 Dec 95 21:06:20 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: 1988RR electrical nightmare #1. I know this is gonna sound crazy but when I hit my break pedal to make a turn, the head lights dim and the heater fan slows down. #2. I've recently replaced a "defective" battery,and installed a trailer hitch electrical harness for directional signals. Afterwards the speedometer crapped out followed by the Tachometer a few days later. The driver side electric window motor blew last week. Are these electrical problems inter-related or is it merely coincidence? The head light dimming had pre dated the other electrical problems. Can anyone offer a reasonable diagnosis? Cheers Cliff 76262.1154@ COMPUSERVE.COM 88RR Blue Meanie From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Dec 8 19:00:42 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 1988RR electrical nightmare Diagnosis? How about a few unreasonable questions? What happens it you just take your foot off the accelerator? Do your headlights dim and the fan slow down? Have you had your alternator checked out? I don't have any idea why the speedo and tach would be tied into the electrical system (I assume they are mechanical, if not there's your connection). It sounds as though you might be getting uneven (very uneven) electical output. That could cause a lot of problems, including a bad battery, dimming lights, and so on. Rgds, Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On 8 Dec 1995, Cliff Kavanaugh wrote: > #1. I know this is gonna sound crazy but when I hit my break pedal to make a > turn, the head lights dim and the heater fan slows down. > #2. I've recently replaced a "defective" battery,and installed a trailer hitch electrical harness for directional signals. Afterwards the speedometer crapped out followed by the Tachometer a few days later. The driver side electric window motor blew last week. Are these electrical problems inter-related or is it merely coincidence? The head light dimming had pre dated the other electrical problems. Can anyone offer a reasonable diagnosis? Cheers Cliff From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 8 22:50:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... 'tis called continuous oiling for those of us in salt challenged environments... From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 8 22:57:27 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:57:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: How many are left ?? On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 > states on the word Rover.... The problem with this type of number playing is many... Rover North America says X Land Rovers were imported and sold. Fine, but.... This number does not include those imported directly into Canada (for example) by Shell, The various Cdn Government departments, other companies, Hydro QUebec... etc... All of these other "imports" would not appear in Rover NA stats since they never saw the vehicles in the first place. 16k vehicles? I'd say it was a lot higher... Looking at the rot level, and those surviving, LR's are not that imune to rust. Greater initial numbers must have been here... The 16k figure was arrived at in an unscientific From "John Y. Liu" Fri Dec 08 23:36:33 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 23:36:33 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Buying Long Distance Here are my thoughts on buying long distance. I haven't yet bought a car long distance but recently bought two ocean kayaks that way for $6,000, so I had to do some thinking about the method. 1. Question the owner thoroughly. Have a checklist and go through it with him on the phone. 2. Get photos, copies of records, etc. by mail. Be reasonable and pay $15 or so for film, developing, postage and copying -- shows you're serious and not wasting his time. In return the photos should be pretty detailed. I don't think videos are clear enough. 3. Dicker the price to a reasonable range, conditioned on the truck being in the advertised condition. No need to get to a final price yet. 4. Have someone in the area check the truck out for you. Maybe a list member. I'd be happy to do so for any trucks in L.A. 5. Have a Rover mechanic in the area check the truck out for you. Have a list member recommend someone. It'll cost $50 or so -- money well spent. 6. Research how much it'll cost you to fix what's wrong. That's your bargaining tool. Subscription Information: * All new subscriFrom paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Sun Dec 10 21:08:03 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:08:03 +1100 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: Re: Malawi via Tete or Zambia > and would like to hear from folk who might have travelled up that > way. There are two ways of getting from Zimbabwe, either going > through Zambia or through the Tete corridor in Mozambique. Different > people have different nightmares to tell about each! Is there anyone Sheesh! I've also heard of lots of friends of friends or friends who where shot in the head, held up, chopped to bits with machetes, and so on (and somehow managed to get back and tell about it!). We went to Malawi & Zambia about 18 months ago, up via Tete, back via Livingston. Tete was fine, but the Mocambiquan border people are quite surly (maybe it's just a language thing) and although we had Zimbabwean papers (which should have covered everything) we _still_ had to buy insurance &c. It was about R100/vehicle (or US$60/vehicle, so pay in Rands :-)), but no big deal. We were stopped by two road blocks, one checking seat belts, the other looking for warning triangles & fire extinguishers. No requests for bribes, threats, anything else. Just immense poverty & devestation from the war (and the SA/Eskom-sponsored post-independence guerrilla offensive). The road itself is fine, and I could travel as fast as the diesel would let me go, except for the last 10km or so, which was still under construction. Zambia was quite different. The border people were friendly & helpful, needed about US$5 for insurance, and the country was absolutely beautiful. Beer was cheap, but take your own empties -- small towns won't sell beer unless you give them empties. Fuel prices vary from pump to pump. The highway from Chipata to Lusaka is variable, and you can cruise at 120km/hr or more if you don't mind sudden potholes. The only road-blocks that we saw were veterinary controls. I broke both front springs on the road from South Luangwa to Petauke, but got some leaves (and lots of labour) in Petauke (about 100 people or so). Crossing from Livingston to Vic Falls, we had more shit on the Zim side (not that it was anything to write home about) than we had during the rest of the trip. Go up one way, and come back the other. It makes it more interesting. You won't regret it -- the great fear of the rest of Africa is one of the many negative effects of years of Apartheid rule. Drop me a line if you want more info. From "Sean McInerney" 8 1995 Dec -0500 1914 Date: 8 Dec 1995 14:18:55 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Obscure parts Obscure parts Those of you with SIIa Genuine Parts Catalogues- 1.) Can anyone tell me the part numbers for the Solex carburetor correct for a 1963 Land Rover?....there may be numbers existent for electrically wired and heated as well as unheated versions. 2.) What is the part number for the ignition waterproofing kit (rubber boots for coil, distributor, and plugs)? 3.) What is the part number for the petrol fuel pump with glass sediment bowl? Was this always the same part # for SII, early SIIa, late SIIa, and SIII? 4.) The waterpump for the SIIa petrol is now absurdly priced in NA.....what is its part number? Except for the fuel pump, these parts are out-of-production and, therefore, rather obscure and $$$ (#163##163##163#). Except for the waterproofing kit, I am attempting to stay 'vintage-correct', so please keep this in mind with your replies. A friend of mine is going home to England for the holidays and has offered to bring back a few parts as long as they are not too heavy. Where might he get his hands on these parts in the UK (over the counter or mail)? I would like all these parts to be genuine....but I am also trying to save tons o' $$$ (#163##163##163#). Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" petrol hardtop P.S.: Where's the digest??????????????????????????????? From bava001@IT.net (Claudio Bavassano) Sun Dec 10 16:03:53 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:03:53 +0100 From: bava001@IT.net (Claudio Bavassano) Subject: Disco driver seat >To: LRO-digest@uk.stratus.com >From: bava001@pn.itnet.it (Claudio Bavassano) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Hello everybody. >I am new on the list and regret if these arguments have been discussed recently. >I just bought a 94 Discovery MPI 2.0 16 valves with 20k Km. >It seems it works very good but reading the manual I understand a red light >Subject: Disco driver seat signal should lit up when locking diff. >I have no light at all. >Secondly, I am 1,90 m. high and if the driver seat could be moved backwards >Subject: Disco driver seat at least 4-5 cm. it would be very nice for my legs. >I inspected the seat and found at the end of both the toothed rails, two stops wich end the shift back of the seat itself. >It is possible to cut them out but then I suppose the seat will go back too much without the possibility to be blocked and may be the rails could bend. >Is there anybody who already solved the above problems ? >Thanks in advance [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Thanks in advance >C.Bavassano Italy bava001@pn.itnet.it From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Sun Dec 10 12:28:15 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:28:15 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: CA 86"LR FS, FYI Found the following ad on one of the net classified things. Kevin, are you on the list? >From "Special Car Journal Classifieds" 1955 Land Rover 86 Over $15,000 squandered on body-off restoration of rust-free California car. Bronze green with new tan canvas. New or rebuilt everything. Correct, fully operational classic. Asking $9000 and will accept any reasonable offer. Kevin Kay, CA, Phone: 916-241-8337, FAX: 916-241-8339, Ad #2819 From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Dec 10 15:17:58 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:17:58 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Obscure parts --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Obscure parts From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Sun Dec 10 15:27:54 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:27:54 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Santana 6 cyl.???? Is there a supplier for Santana engines either in the UK, Spain, S. America or the US? In particular a friend and I are looking for the Santana 6, thinking that it would be the ultimate engine. Commonality of parts between the Rover 4 and the Santana 6 is the major reason for going with the Santana. Does anyone have ay experiene regarding this engine? Horror stories or anything good to say about this engine or Santana in general? We're looking for any type of contact either with Santana directly or with remanufactureres of those engines, as in Turner from England. I haven't seen anything in LRO about contacting Santana, and figured the next best place to look were the lists. Thanks in advance, Michael From "Mark Talbot" Mon Dec 11 01:38:55 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 01:38:55 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Oil and water don't mix Trying to get Beryl running today, bad starter, had to replace, we towed and pulled her, thanks to Alan Richer's 109 "Churchill" she just would'nt fire. After closer inspection and after replacing the rebuilt starter, Alan pulled off the air intake, she fired, sounded as good as always. Checked the air cleaner element and found a hard sludge in the pan, seems that water had got in from the last off-roading trip, and the oil & water mix had frozen into a hard mush. !! Put in a replacement air filter unit and she worked fine. Beware !!! Mark From ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Sun Dec 10 21:12:46 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:12:46 -0800 (PST) From: ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Subject: stuff A few thoughts on some of the recent ramblings on the digest... concerning receiver hitch mounted winches - I would have to say that the Rovers North application for the Discovery seems to me to be the best option - for a few reasons (in order of least-to-most important)... 1. Aesthetics - this set up offers the true "weekend warrior" the best of both worlds - a winch that can be removed for urban travel and quickly installed for the infrequent trips to the woods. Also would please that former Range Rover owner who had the winch-concealed-behind-the-front- license-plate style installed to mask their wild side. 2. This sounds silly, but was a fear of mine last week when, on a nice patch of ice I cruised through a stop sign in my 88" IIA - if you are unfortunate enough to rear-end someone, all you do is lose a bumper as opposed to a bumper, winch, roller fairlead, brushguard etc. etc. 3. Helps out with the somewhat lacking approach angle that the LRNA winch provides 4. And the most important reason as far as I'm concerned is the advantage of having a winch that can be used in both the front and rear receiver hitches - obviously providing infinite recovery possibilities (I'll admit that on at least one occasion I have resorted to passing the cable underneath my diffs and out the back to the only available tree around - but don't let anyone know :) ). So, since I'm not much in to aesthetics on any Rover, points 1 and 2 should be taken lightly, but seriously consider points 3 and 4 unless you're really wealthy and can afford 2 winches... Also, concerning the Defender 90 Thule racks - got em', love 'em, highly reccomend them. Besides the fact that I am a big fan of Thule (between the four of us in my family, over the last 12+ years, we've bought a different set for our Saab 900 and 9000, Audi 90 Q and 5000, Volkswagen Jetta, Land Rover 88" and Def 90 - keeping in mind, of course the fact that not all of the cars are still in our small family of 4!), the Defender rack is extremely easy to install which is both good and bad for the owner - easy to put on and equally easy to steal, since there are no locks for the rack itself. Obviously, the rack is specific to the 90 and by itself won't be stolen, but remember that even though the bike, ski, etc. attachments themselves lock, if the rack doesn't - everything can still be taken with ease. The only problem that I have found is the fact that the bars are only 2.5' apart, so attachments like the angle ski rack mean that downhill skis go in fine, but x-country ones which are thicker in the middle and more flexed don't go in too easily. I'm not kidding when I say that if you have the extra $700 for the new stainless steel Rovers North Safari rack, you're better off in many ways - not the least of which is the extra load carrying capacity (keep in mind that I still use all of my Thule attachments on my full length galvanised 88" rack - I've put together spacers that fill up the extra 1/2" width of the Thule bars compared to the rack's tubing) - providing the perfect spot for those looking for a place to put a hi-lift, jerry cans, axe etc. On the topic of roof racks and weight, the Defender 90 Thule racks are registered at 100 lbs. of weight - which is a bit deceptive, though... If any of you have seen the new Car-Top tents, they attach to the 90's rack and when stationary, the Thule bars can easily support the spread-out weight of two adults sleeping in these tents - just don't go driving, because as soon as weight above the 100 lb. mark starts shifting around (like the Discovery owner learned on their off-road trip that was written about a few days ago), the jolting effect will cause the racks to weaken, bent, or worse - compromise the strength of the roll cage itself. That's why there are suggested load limits on such racks. And for trivia, of which I haven't provided much of recently b/c of an extended period away from the computer - today's may seem easy to people in North America, but I'll bet that this one will in some way stump even the most seasoned of Rover fans... name as many items as you can that differentiate the *base* 1995 Defender 90 softtop from the base MY '94 softtop (I've thought of 13 things that are significantly different)... And for those with no interest what-so-ever in knowing 13 things about a '95 NAS Def. 90, I give you this trivia question - name the only 2 countries in the entire world which have managed to keep Land Rover from legally selling their products within their borders. Frank "Havana Daydreaming" Twarog Burlington, VT From ericz@cloud9.net Sun Dec 10 18:19:27 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:19:27 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Incomlpete digest. Could someone please forward the 12/10 digest to me...it got eaten somewhere along the way and I only got the first message... Thanks. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Dec 10 19:47:13 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 19:47:13 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS Majorette has done it again. Another variation on the ubiquitous Land Rover 90 and radar trailer. This is the 1/60 series 300 number 362 Nasa scheme vehicle which has been around for a number of years now. The latest variation is that the blue stripes on the side are a paler blue and the once silver chromed wheel hubs are now a blue chrome colour. There were only two in the store (Zellers) so I bought both. If you would like to receive an occasional toy / model digest devoted to Land Rover product marques please e mail me directly and Ill set something up. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Dec 10 18:40:47 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 18:40:47 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: what the heck? What's going on with LRO digest?? Two times in two weeks the messages are not on the list! Can anyone shed the light. I'm going into withdrawal... Cheerz Jim - I need my LRO fix! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Dec 10 22:43:36 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:43:36 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Here we go again... What is up with the major??? 19 messages on the 12/10 digest, yet only a fraction of the first message along with the major's usual message footers were sent. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:48:27 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:48:27 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Did we pass??? At 16:22 09.12.95 +0000, Oscar Beasley wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Testing, two three four. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >Testing, two three four. >beasleyo@milo.cfw.com (Oscar Beasley) From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:47:53 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:47:53 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: (ALERT) INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995 While this is not directly relevant to Land Rovers, it does touch on a much larger issue. I provide it for your information and action as you see appropriate. Cheers! John >Return-Path: root@panix3.panix.com >Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 00:33:33 -0500 (EST) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 229 lines)] > End Alert >======================================================================== From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:48:22 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:48:22 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: 10,000 miles on Discovery Speaking of Discovery problems, I groused at my dealer about the intermittent failure of my left rear directional. He said that this was a known problem (as do we all), and that he was ordering a complete set of light sockets to replace all of them, not just the one that's defective. May his tribe increase! Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 15:27 09.12.95 -0500, Gary Mitchelson wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] >garym@racalrecord.com >Racal Recorders, Inc. From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Sun Dec 10 21:11 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 21:11 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Automobile Magazine wants opinions on the Discovery In the January 1996 issue of Automobile Magazine, on page 98, there is the following blurb: If you own a 1995 ..., Land Rover Discovery, ...(several other vehicles are listed), we'd like to hear from you. We need to know your name, address, and daytime telephone number; what you do for a living, your age, your car's make and model; how long you've owned it; how much you paid for it; whether there was a rebate on that amount; your insurance cost on this car for one year; and whether you have had any serious mechanical problems. Also, what was your last car before this one? Most important, be specific in telling us what you like most and least about your car. We'll send you an Automobile Magazine bumper sticker for your trouble (Oh, Goody!). If your entry is published as part of our Four Seasons report, we'll send you one of out T-shirts, too (so send us your size and color preference - black, green or blue). Send your responses to: Four Seasons Tests, Automobile Magazine, 120 East Liberty Street, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104. From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 10 20:26:30 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:26:30 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Tranny getting cranky Andrew Balser asks... > Since I have owned my ser.iii, the transmission has never been >quite perfect. It never went smoothly into first, and it pooped out of >first going down a steep driveway during the first week I owned it. I >could live with all that pretty easily though by briefly shift into second >and then first. ................snip.................... >to check things out. Does anyone have any opinion on which parts will be >most damaged, and in what proportion? Any attempt I make to fix the thing >before embarking will be done with only basic tools on the (uneven) dirt >drive at my cabin, and with almost no $$ to boot. - It sounds like at the very least you have worn syncro rings and possibly worn detent balls/springs. Once you pull the tranny apart you may find other items. Pulling the transmission out requires removing the floor panels and seat box - not a lot of fun in the cold (especially where you are). Personally, I would try swapping the tranny for a used one and hope for the best. Keep in mind, that you will need to put in a SerIII transmission. You could use a IIa transmission, but you would have to install a IIa slave cylinder as well. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern'From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Mon Dec 11 11:53 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 11:53 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Series IIA power steering Hi all What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the SO to be able to drive the beast too. Please remember that I'm on the other side of the world, I can't just buy a kit and stick it in. I would probably have to cannabalise something to find the correct steering relay or whatever. Thanks Wouter -- Wouter de Waal ZS1KE GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W N+++>++ Argo 505 / FT200 !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*) '72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine Perseverance my son, '6? Series IIA SW - factory fitted Lucas immobiliser it's a Land/ /Rover "All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover From Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited 11 95 Dec GM 1910 Date: 11 Dec 95 10:05:43 GM From: Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited Subject: 1985 - 110 for sale Location North East Hampshire, UK My 1985 110 is sadly up for sale. For the last 18 months we have been using it to transport kids, dogs, and horses to and from schools, walks and shows respectively. Mainly been driven by my wife on a daily basis, apart from a short stint of 50 miles per day when I used it for the daily commute to work. It must now go due the purchase of a small holding and the need for a tractor/jcb type vehicle. Details 2.5L Diesel (N/A) (blows a little oil but recently passed emissions test at MOT) Gearbox fully reconditioned 12k miles ago (18 months) MOT'd until September 1996 Taxed until summer 1996 Avon Rangemasters all round Full length roof rack Capstan Winch (front mounted) Ex British Telecom vehicle (regularly serviced, but no service history) Good chassis (spent most of it's life on the roads) Colour is light Grey (externally oversprayed by BT from the previous yellow colour) This vehicle has never ever let us down. I looking for around UK Pounds 4250 If interested? send mail to Tony Kingston@MTITS.CO.UK and I'll tell you more about it. Tony From Richard Jones Mon Dec 11 9:54:54 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 9:54:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: standards vs. automatics ... ? Randall Thomas writes: > allowing you to keep going and avoiding the evil wheel spin. What you don't > need is to throttle up over some obstacle only to go flying off the other > side because you've little or no engine braking and it's too slippery to use > the brakes. Taking your senario, what happens if you miss you gear shift at the top. With the manual you go flying down the other side out of gear ... with the auto you pull the leave back and kick it down (takes a little nerve but it works). > day. I do alot of offroading in steep slippery terrain and have, more than > once, had to stop by just switching off the ignition while underway and in > gear down a slippery descent. It's just too risky to touch that brake > pedal, and this gives you a nicely controlled stop, impossible in an automatic. > Also, with a manual you always know exactly what gear you're in. (except > mine periodically jumps into neutral from third during overrun). > Cheers Randall > pedal, and this gives you a nicely controlled stop, impossible in an __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 11 Dec 95 08:13:14 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: ReSTAMPS Dear Robin, So far no stamps. You can be assured I will be paying you in US $ if that is OK. There really is honor amoungst Rover fellow's. Orlando Fl in the central part of the State approx 2.5hrs N of West Palm Beach. I never heard of Hutchinson. While I got you on the Net let me ask you a question.Last year I replaced my old 6cycl engine in my 1966 109 NADA wagon wioth a rebuilt(new) Turner 4 cylc. 2.5l engine. It has on now approx 1500miles and the damn thing can't get out of its own way. Max speed approx 50MPH with OD. I have two other 4cycl Turner engines in my 88' that work fine. Was I miss lead to put a 4cylc in the heavy 109? Is there a solution to my problem other then a new engine? Thanks for any help you you give me. Benjamin G.Newman, MD From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 11 08:54:44 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 08:54:44 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Cold Weather Repair Tips. Here's a few handy tips to keep Old Man Winter off your back. 1. If you break down in a major city, or other heavily populated area, don't bother calling a tow truck. You're much better off attemting to diagnose and fix the problem right there on the side of the road. 2. Make sure that you don't carry any spare parts that actually match the parts on your vehicle. This will handily prevent you from installing a part that might not work. 3. Once you have installed the incorrect parts, make sure the vehicle starts. If it does, immediately remove all the new parts and replace them with the old parts. This will allow you to determine whether or not these parts were actually the problem. 4. Do not attempt any repairs unless it is below 20 degrees. Be sure to wear the thinnest socks possible. Also it's best to sit around for a few hours, and wait until dark before trying to fix anything. This gives the passenger something to do, ie. holding the flashlight. 5. If your passenger suspects you have a fuel delivery probelm, then it is definitely not a fuel delivery problem. Never mind that 3 other people asked if you had a fuel delivery problem. 6. If anybody asks if you need help, say no and tell them to go away. They obviously know nothing about Land-Rovers and will just make it worse. 7. When all else fails, rebuild the distributor. Its okay if your spares are from the wrong distributor, simply put them in any old way and they will work fine. A toenail clipper makes an excellent points file. Put everything back any old way. Don't bother setting the point gap, it doesn't matter because it's not going to start anyway. Do try to set the timing though. 8. Check the spark plugs. If they have a nice black sooty coating on them, be sure to brush them real good with an oily toothbrush. This will help preserve the sooty coating. Replace the spark plugs. 9. Remove and reinstall the air filter several times. This is guaranteed to attract people who need help changing a tire on their new stolen car because they can't get into the trunk. This will make you glad that you have a junky old Land-Rover that no one in their right mind would want to steal. 10. When your Rover finally starts going again, pay no mind to the fact that it won't exceed 20 mph. These things are notoriously slow vehicles. When you finally get home, you can, in the safety and comfort of your own driveway, reconnect the vacuum advance and bend the accelarator linkage back to it's normal position. This will allow you to drive the Rover at a normal speed to the local Sushi joint and ponder quietly to yourself on the fact that it now starts easier, and runs better and faster than it has since you've owned it. Thanks to Will Hadley for holding the flashlight and sticking around while I tested these theories. Cheers. Dave"Brrrrrrr"Bobeck 72 SerIII "Green Car" From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 11 09:07:44 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 09:07:44 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Buying a Land-rover I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under $2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't know what her husband had for a vehicle. If you don't want to work on these machines then by all means go through a garage or buy a completely rebuilt vehicle but be prepared to spend $7,000-$10,000. That is just the way the market works, supply and demand. Guy Arnold 1973 Series III swb 1960 MGA 1600 roadster Guy is right. We all should expect, and I did, that for every problem you find when you look at a truck, there is one or more hidden problem. It turned out that mine and others had more serious hidden problems, but c'est la Rovers. My vehicle would have cost a bundle more had it been rust free. I still think I got a good deal. As far as frame rust goes, I think a lot of them could be repaired, after all they aren't made of gold, just regular old steel. Mine could be repaired, but I CHOSE to do a frame-over. I dread the day I actually begin the job but I'm sure it won't really be a big deal. There's nothing wrong with buying a decrepit truck, and also I think the guys up North have a more realistic idea of what a crappy truck really is. My frame has holes in it, but I've heard of frames that literally break in half on the road. Also having seen Mike Loiodice's (sorry if I speeled it wrong, mate) "Fern Rover", I know just how ugly a frame can get. And that wasn't even the worst, I'm sure... Regards Dave From 11 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 11 Dec 95 09:31:48 EST From: Subject: Major Domo barfs again!!!!!!! The 12/10/95 ( for you folks back in blighty 10/12/95) list stalled out after the first half of the first out of 19 messages. If anyone received a complete list, please forward it to me. Thanks btw, checked out a lonely 90sw coniston green at lrmw early sunday morning. no sold sticker on it, just lots of ice. I love it but wife wants a rangie as the disco will not fit into her office's garage. Regards Chris Browne Brit in Boston 95 Discovery (11470 miles really cold today you should have heard the steering wheel squeak!) chris_browne@us014-minet-boston.ccmail.compuserve.com From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 11 06:51:00 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:51:00 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: (ALERT) INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995 This was truncated by Herr Majordomo last time. As I said last time, this is not directly related to Land Rovers (Sorry.) but does effect the Internet. My apologies for boring the non-US readers with this, but there's no other way to reach only Americans without sending this out to everyone. Cheers! John From "Oscar Beasley" Mon Dec 11 10:07:13 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:13 +0000 From: "Oscar Beasley" Subject: 1972 SIII S/W for sale Just in time for Christmas and after all the excellent advice on buying *long distance*, I am offering my SIII for sale. This vehicle was originally sold through a local dealer here in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. It was the owner's personal vehicle until he went to a nursing home. It then sat in his barn for many years, suffering through a major flood that filled it up to the frame with water and mud. When re-discovered, the frame had been mostly destroyed. I bought the vehicle from the second owner who had applied various SPOT tricks, etc. Bottom line, the vehicle was completely disassembled. I started w/new galvanized frame (from RN), rebuilt engine (now w/14,500 miles), rebuilt transmission (from Mike Hoskins), galvanized footwells, new gas tank, all new brake lines, most instruments, new heater box/lower dash, new springs, shocks, swivel balls, new wheel bearings, brakes, tie rod ends, bump stops, engine mounts, and on and on. It is easier to say what was not replaced: the hardtop, the exterior body, both axles and the top dash, firewall, rear safari door and rear seats. It needs to be painted and a couple of wrinkles ironed out on the front wings. The headliner has about a two-inch *L* tear, the driver's seat is in need of recovering, the rear seats have a few nicks (replacements are still in plastic), and it needs carpeting and/or mats. (I left the two bullet holes in the body and driver's seat because it makes great conversation! No, not a jealous husband!) I have installed a new overdrive (from Atlantic Brit.), and have a brand-new, *still on the pallet* high speed transfer case (from Mike Hoskins), spare diff., spare bearings, seals, gaskets, brakes, shocks, springs, and various pieces, parts and chunks. The truck is a daily runner, 60+ miles round-trip. Graduate school is forcing me to sell it. I can't spend the time to keep it properly maintained, not to mention that I am doing this out of my savings and have two semesters to finish. Anyway, *The Rogue* needs a good home and someone to finish the project. Call Lanny at RN and he can verify that all parts ordered are Genuine LR, and that I have spent over $10K on parts with them, alone. Atlantic British can verify the couple of thou they have received from me, and Mike Hoskins can verify the couple of grand he has received. I won't tell you how much I paid the SPOT, but whoever buys this truck will see it on the title. All fluids are synthetic from rebuild or new except steering relay and steering box (plain old 90wt there). Five 16" rims w/new BF Goodrich made 235R 16 radials, and six 15" rims w/four like-new Toyo radials and two good radial spares. Talk to anyone from Blue Ridge Land Rover Club (http://www.cemr.wvu.edu/~wwwatf/brlrc/brlrc.htm) about the vehicle, it runs well and is SOLID. It just needs some cosmetics and touching-up. Since I use it off-road, I didn't want to paint it and then see it get scratched (scarved ;-}) on the trail. I live in Staunton, Virginia where I-81 and I-64 (west from Richmond) join. 540-885-2949 gets my voice mail (only a 45 second message), or a FAX. I will try to get some photos scanned to send by FAX or by email for those in a hurry, and some good color shots for more leisurely, but serious, parties. (I'm in exams this week and won't be around during the daytime until Friday 12/15/95.) $12,500 - as is with all misc. parts, transfer case, etc. Offers below that figure will be considered, however, lower offers will not include parts. Thanks for the bandwidth, and have a Happy Holiday. Bo Beasley beasleyo@milo.cfw.com (Oscar Beasley) 540-885-2949 Voice Mail & FAX (Home) beasleoh@vax.acs.jmu.edu (Grad School) From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 11 Dec 95 10:16:40 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Able Mechanic I am in need of a mechanic to do do minor repairs eg tune up's ,oil changes etc on my Series Rover's:1966 109 NADA wagon,1962 88" 3 door Ser 111,and a 1966 Ser 11A pick up truck, that works in the Central FL area. Please any suggestions?? Benjamin G. Newman Orlando Fl From William Caloccia Mon Dec 11 10:09:37 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:09:37 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: It's here. Wanted: Monster Rivit tool ? 4sale: Trans. Brake Shoes ? Hi All ! Well, after the removers left most of my stuff at the loft, (and most of the spare L-R parts (tail gate, bottom & top!; windscreen surround, left hand side for a safari wagon top, replacement brake & clutch parts, etc. etc.) [so am I the only LRO with L-R body parts under my bed ?], Saturday my task was to go up to the warehouse in Wakefield and pick up the SIIa then bring it up to my friend's in Tyngsboro, 'til I find shelter for the spare engine, diff and front axle case w/diff. So, of course, it had to be a good winter storm. And the right hand side of the Safari top was packed into the passenger's seat, so the ankle burner was entirely blocked off. After putting the doors back on (less a brass ball) I was off into the snow. With the spare engine, diffs, axle case, and five 109" rims in the rear, there was *lots* of traction, and it wasn't until I got up off the main road in Tyngsboro that I actually engaged 4wd. My legs were pretty cold from the draft, but I made it up to Tyngsboro and even passwd a bunch of sheep, err traffic, on route 3 who were queued up behind a lorry. Not often the top speed of a heavily laden L-R is above the rest of the traffic on the motorway :-) After a few more hours of snow we piled into my friends Ford F-350 pick-up and went back down to Wakefield, where it was pouring rain, and I retrieved my vehicle from the lot and we were off. Now I've just got to wait for it to get above freezing to rinse the salt off and unfreeze the tail gate glass latch on the RR. Anybody stateside looking for transmission brake shoes ? They sent me two sets, and I don't think I'll need the second set for quite a while, so it is available. Also, anyone in Mass. or nearby have a high-leverage rivit tool ? (You know the ones that look like bolt-cutters (not the plier type). The rivits for the station wagon top are huge, and I really need to get it on the vehicle 'cause there is not visibility to the left with the blind side top and RHD.) I'll also take suggestions on where to rent one. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ L P R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L | R +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | H N 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H D L '63 SIIa 88" '72 RR '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L From David Rosenbaum Mon Dec 11 09:47:00 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:47:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: clock in D90 Dear Alan, Thank-you for your message. I took the clock out yesterday and looked at it with a dissecting microscope. It is an interesting combination some type of computer "chip" but also a little motor and a series of gears (all of which seem to be made of nylon and/or plastic). One interesting wheel appeared to have a "rubber" ring on its perimeter and was surrounded by 4 close flat wire "contacts" (?). (I wonder if the ring is magnetized and receives or feeds back signal to the contacts to control speed...) Although the assembly looked dry to the naked eye, under the scope, the gears were almost DRIPPING with lubricant. I cleaned off a few tiny pieces of plastic or nylon that looked like milling remnants. I didn't have a good way to get rid of what appears to be excessive oil. The gear with the rubber ring wobbles a lot. The rubber ring was uneven with respect to gear that it was applied to, so I straighted that. In sum: not much in the way of "user serviceable" parts inside. The fact that the assembly looks so wet is further evidence for your idea about congealed lubricant to explain the recent slowing. I put the clock back in, and since our cold spell is over for now, I expect that it will run OK for now. Best wishes, David From joes@daka.com Mon Dec 11 18:09:31 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 18:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: joes@daka.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Buying a Land-rover Guy, Please send a name(s), addresses or ph#'s of a garage(s) where you can get a . I'm serious, here in the Pacific NW a clean and not restored LR runs more than that. A totally rebuilt one goes for (asking price) $12,000-$25,000 from a garage. Here most LR's aren't driven they're "owned". Thanks, -Joe From William Caloccia Mon Dec 11 13:33:31 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:33:31 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Digest Problems Hi, Well odds are the digester got indigestion, and hurled the other 19 messages (most likely due to some input that it didn't like), as I've no longer access to the system which Major D is running on, I am unable to go back and take a look at the historical input to check up on it. If one of the real-time or real-time bulliten board people still has a copy of the following two messages and could forward them to me, I *might* be able to figure out the error, but I can't correct it until Major D is re-assigned. 1 johnliu@earthlink.net Sat Dec 9 02:52 38/4263 Buying Long Distance 2 JRBIRD@aol.com Sat Dec 9 04:12 14/797 subscribe Cheers, -B From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Dec 11 08:03:12 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles (fwd) LROs All, I found the last magazine subsription scam message annoying enough to try tracking down their source. I got far enough (not far at all) to contact the Massey University computer folks and ask them about a possible breach of security. This is their response (below). For what it's worth, the last scam message did not include an email address for a response, so they must be getting a ration in response to these broadcasts. If we get another one, the last response address they gave was krazykev@kjl.com, and I'd suggest a massive onslaught in response. Multiple copies of the larger digests ought to get the message across. Walt Swain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From RMJameson@aol.com Mon Dec 11 14:45:04 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:45:04 -0500 From: RMJameson@aol.com Subject: Air Pumps for Discovery It can't be that there are no Discoverys out there with air systems, can it? If you responded, sorry I missed it. I would like to find experiences with on board air systems for a '94 Discovery. Is it a really dumb idea? Does anyone have suggestions, air or driven? Are they make to fit Discoverys? Will they void the LR warranty? Anyone have experience with a particular brand? Any guesses as to the cost? etc. Thanks. From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 11 15:01:45 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:01:45 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: FAQ Is there a FAQ or set of guidelines on importing older Land Rovers from the UK? All assistance is appreciated! Thanks.. Gerry E. Phoenix, AZ From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 12:18:04 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:18:04 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: magazine subscription spam Walter C. Swain wrote: > I found the last magazine subsription scam message annoying enough to try > tracking down their source. There's an interesting document on the Web - the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers, on which this spam appears. The List is at http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html or http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/. For the story of the magazine spam, see http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/kl_info.txt. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 11 13:27:23 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:27:23 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Used RR FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Used RR John, I didn't get your last e-mail... only one line, saying that you're thinking about getting a used RR yourself. I assumed there's more that I didn't get?? Questions? Comments? Looking back, I probably would still have gotten the one I did... Just from the overall condition of the RR I suspected that it was NOT well maintained mechanically. (Nor cosmetically!) But for the price... I still think it was a fair deal. Tips: Look at MANY RR's to get a feel for what's out there, condition, problems, etc. Ask "What problems have you had with it?" and "Is there anything AT ALL wrong with it?" (This will eat at their conscience if there is... provided it's not a car dealer, whom, as we all know, have no conscience.) Make a full sharp turn in both left and right, high and low range, and listen for any clunking, jerking, etc. while some throttle is applied. Test out the low range, and locking (about all you can do without really getting into it is to see if the light turns on when locked) Look into the oil fill opening. Neglected engine will be dirty and crusted with scum. (Not sure if a well maintained engine will have this since I have no experience there :-( but I don't think it would. Any unusual engine noises will SURELY be EXPENSIVE to fix. Don't assume it's a simple fix unless you KNOW for sure what it is. (Don't take their word for it, if it was an easy or inexpensive fix, then why didn't they fix it??) Assume the worst, then you won't be disappointed. I've also heard the P.S. boxes can leak profusely, and are quite expensive. Ask to see maintenance records if they have them. LOOK at them to see oil change frequency, any other problems... They gave me the name of their mechanic, whom I called and found out more things that have been replaced, but couldn't comment on oil changes. (not done by him... maybe just not done!) Look for un-matched paint color OR finish. Mine had obviously been in an accident, they admitted to it, due to the dull finish on parts, shinier on other parts. Check for leaks, (keep in mind, it IS a LR ;-) ) Pointing out leaks and flaws may help the price negotiating. Keep in mind what is cosmetic, or easily fixed by yourself, and what is not. Keep in mind... it is a vehicle, not that unlike a Chevy or Ford (yuck!) aka no fear in doing minor repairs yourself. (with the proper knowledge and tools) Good luck, feel free to write back if you have any more or specific questions. I WILL reply, so if no response, I probably didn't get your message. Try again. Thanks, and good luck... Dave (smarter now, but poorer) Brown. #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 11 13:08:53 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:08:53 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: How many are left ?? In message you wrote: > > If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 > > states on the word Rover.... > The problem with this type of number playing is many... I know the problems, but it puts a better baseline to extrapolate from than pulling a number out of the middle of nowwhere. > Rover North America says X Land Rovers were imported and sold. > Fine, but.... This number does not include those imported directly [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > been here... The 16k figure was arrived at in an unscientific > way... Unscientific? It was using the availible numbers. I've heard 16k mentioned many times. Then I actually looked at the data that James Taylor put together. And 16k meets the that criteria. Argueably that only covers the Rovers imported by LR directly. How many LRs would have been brought in by the Canadian Gov't? 4k? I still think that the numbers are closer to 16k (or even 20k) than 50k. Ben From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 13:22:36 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:22:36 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: creaky Discovery rear door - the cure On the fourth go, someone at Symes LR not only heard the really loud creaking noise but also got rid of it. The solution? Lubricating the rear door hinges and tightening their bolts. That was all, after four visits and several hundred miles of driving back and forth to Pasadena. Bravo for Tom, the new LR Service Manager. If it weren't for him, I might have continued my slide into madness brought on by that noise. Now I can concentrate on taking on the snow that's supposed to be here within a day or two. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From Rob Bailey Mon Dec 11 14:33:41 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Subject: Re: Buying a Land-rover >I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series >rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under >$2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to >happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't >know what her husband had for a vehicle. I disagree. I bought my 1963 SIIa SWB S/W for $1200CDN. It has a great frame, a solid engine and tons of spare parts. The main problems were missing front seats and really bad brakes. I purchased a set of used seats for $60, and put another $125 into the brakes and seals. You just have to watch and wait for the deals to come along. My Rover is far from new shape, but I can't remember any trees complaining after being massaged by it's dented/multi-coloured body (damn tree should have moved, anyways!). Rob From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 11 Dec 95 16:41:28 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Frozen ground - treacherous My friend Gunter's not in the best of moods these days because on the weekend, when offroading at our favourite venue (US firing range - big holes!) he managed to throw a spanking new Disco on its side. The damage is extensive and the slippage happened in the first place because the ground/mud was *frozen*, hard as concrete. He tried to negotiate a declining rutted passage by balancing the vehicle on top of the mounds (the ruts were too deep to drive in them), and though the Disco was equipped with Mud-Terrains, the profile had nothing to grip as it just didn't sink into the frozen ground. The vehicle went into a slow, uncontrollable slide, fell into the righthand rut, and over it went, sliding on its right side to a painful halt to the sound of shattering glass and screeching aluminum. Recovery was relatively easy, again due to the hard ground, and naturally the car was still fully functional - Gunter's still driving around in it, with plastic foil in the windows... (Just FYI, the air bags *didn't* deploy). The lesson from this would be that even the most aggressive of tires are useless if the mud is frozen solid, and that you should, if at all possible, avoid even modest descents on frozen ground. I would actually advise a kind of 'reverse recovery': Secure the vehicle with the winch and/or ropes and carefully let it down until you reach level ground again. Once you start slipping you're definitely bound for trouble... Treading *very* lightly on frozen land, Stefan From benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Mon Dec 11 17:53:19 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:53:19 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Subject: Follow up calls after service Hi All: I have received follow-up phone calls from the folks at LRNA each time my Disco. was in for service at our dealer, except the last time. I was wondering if they always do this or just some of the time. Kris- 94 White Disco.- Thumper From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 15:35:07 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:35:07 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Follow up calls after service KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT wrote: > I have received follow-up phone calls from the folks at LRNA each time my > Disco. was in for service at our dealer, except the last time. I was > wondering if they always do this or just some of the time. They've never called me, and I've been back four or five times in the last two months (creaky rear door, inoperable fuel pump, detached CD player cover, defective passenger door check strap.) It's just as well; I might have sounded grumpy. Still, the techs at the dealer have actually been very thorough and done good work. They just need time. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From "Francis J. Twarog" Mon Dec 11 19:42:21 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:42:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: stuff Well, to answer part of yesterday's trivia, here are 13 things that differentiate a base '95 NAS 90 from a MY94... 1.Front bumper no longer integrates turn signals - moved up to wing w/ larger oval amber lense (reminiscent of military typr only bigger). 2. Doors stay open when put into "lock" position. 3. Rear door actually comes with an exterior lock (duh!) 4. Door tops and fast back top included in base price. 5. BFG A/Ts standard - M/Ts become optional. 6. Riv nuts for fiberglass hardtop preinstalled and colorcoated. 7. Beefier stereo and rear speakers. 8. Front doors have map pockets integrated - (in LRNA lit. the rear gate has a pocket too, but I've never seen a '95 with it actually in place.) 9. Pockets behind front seats - plastic protective pieces applied to prevent seats from tearing due to rubbing against x-bar of cage. 10. Rear turn signals round instead of square. 11. Arles blue no longer available on softtop model - "limited" black becomes color choice (sans leather seats) 12. R380 'box replaces LT85. Lighter actiFrom "Steve Reddock" Tue Dec 12 06:31:15 1995 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 06:31:15 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Lightwieght history Hi, Land Rover have taken over the records for these vehicles. If you write to them at: Rover Heritage Museum, Gaydon, Warwickshire, England, giving them all the numbers you can find on the car they will tell you everything they know and give you a nice certificate. They want a fee for this of course, 25 quid sounds familiar. The other place to try is the Army Transport Museum, Beverly, Yorkshire England. They (obviously) have all the records for military service and can tell you what regiment your vehicle was with, etc. They prefer to have the military reg. no which is often stamped onto the chassis number plate. I made up both addresses, based on knowing where they are, but as they are both in small villages there is no danger of needing more information. Minor technicality, a pre 75 Landy will not have a VIN, only a chassis number. Have fun, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From ey-postmaster@geis.com Tue Dec 12 13:51:00 1995 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 13:51:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 3526532 Original Msg Id: 486477 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Tue 12-Dec-95 13:51 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 13 9:55:19 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 9:55:19 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest index lro-digest From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Wed Dec 13 08:23:39 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:23:39 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: 951213 Digest Subject digest only 1/3 complete. Please transmit (retransmit) entire digest. Get command also gets 1/3 of this digest. Thanks, Rick 90 RR(the Money Pit) alias "BOHICA" From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 13 07:36:28 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:36:28 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Report (US) Kurt Reinhart writes: Snip > pre-selection two weeks ago. If you are interested I can post a small report > about the tasks ;-) > now the adress... > http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats_new/whats_new.htm I took a look at the page and what did I find? The Turtle Expedition, the traitors! For those of you who don't know, the Turtle Expedition began their South & Central America expedition in a '67 NADA 109 converted to the Chevy six. They used to sing the praises of LR then, when they found that they could get their travels paid for by corporate sponsors, they got a Chevy then a Ford. When they made the original switch to the Chevy, Gary Wescott (who reports on the Camel Trophy event) started ragging on LR's. If you go back and read his magazine articles it's quite interesting the number of falacies he states about LR's. It's no wonder he had problems if he knew as little about them as it appears in the articles. Grrrrr. Sorry for the rant. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Wed Dec 13 08:57:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:57:00 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest does it again > I don't know what happened but I only got portions of the list on dec 10th and december 13th. Could someone on the net be kind enough to mail me the complete lists of these two days. It would be very appreciated. Thank you Michel Bertrand Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada 1963 IIA 109 PU (Rudolph) 1968-9 IIA 109 SW-Nada (in the works) 1973 III 88 (21st century project) From Rob Bailey Wed Dec 13 07:06:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:06:29 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Re: Andrew Balser On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 Andrew Balser wrote: > Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid > working, happy series for under $2,000.00? I want some of the drugs he > is on!! Not that one can't find a great little freaker '88 for under > $5,000, but that is a significant jump in price. It sounds to me like you have plenty of cheap drugs already... If you sober up long enough, you can come and look at my 88. I've seen several other friends' LR's that have been had for considerably less than $5000US. Maybe its just a case of a lack of Land Rovers where you're located (Alaska, come on, think about it! Besides, not everybody lives in the States). In fact there is a '70 88 S/W in the Calgary Bargain Finder for $1800CDN, and every few weeks one or two LR's are listed there. I have no idea what kind of shape there in, but if you dismiss them based solely on price, that's your your loss, they could be a real deals! Rob BTW, a good twelve step program might be in order, unless you're still in the denial stages... From Ron Franklin Wed Dec 13 09:15:32 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 09:15:32 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Koenig winch parts, Ser II -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II pickup ? This is the model which is driven from the front of the crankshaft , allowing the use of an overdrive at the same time. (model lr-591,controls at winch; or lr-591, cab controls). Mine is the cab control model, but i could use the pieces for lr-591 as well. what I need is the casting which holds the drum clutch and all the attached levers and parts, mine having been wiped out by a PO. Also missing are the operating levers and linkages, and here is where either type would be useful. I could fabricate all of this but would rather spend my efforts elsewhere. The rest of the winch is in good shape, and worth the effort. If someone has a parts winch I could buy some pieces from, it would be just the berries. Actually the clutch drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on the Koenig L621 PTO winch. I have the original parts and owners manuals for all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps. On another subject, another difference in early ser II's which is obvious from the outside by omission is the lack of the horn normally visible through the grill. A much larger horn is used which is mounted in the right wing near the firewall. The wiring harness is also much different on early ser II's as my 59 and 61 have entirely different harnesses, the 61 being nearly identical to a IIA's. Just curious, has anyone any experience with putting a Cummins 4BT in a Series Rover, as this is my current project, and it involves a lot of creative engineering. From Rob Bailey Wed Dec 13 07:17:19 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:17:19 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Digest Version is really screwed up... Does anybody know what the deal is with the list server? Previously, it was every once in a while that the digest would get screwed up, but lately its been commonplace. Should all of the digest mode subscribers change over to the Real-Time list? I can't imagine that helping things too much, but it is very frustrating (to say the least) to miss 95% of the messages from a particular day. If anybody has any ideas, please respond to the list AND email, as it's been quite rare lately to receive the entire digest. Rob From ey-postmaster@geis.com Wed Dec 13 13:36:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:36:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 7565994 Original Msg Id: 490646 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Wed 13-Dec-95 13:36 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Bill Skidmore" 13 1995 Dec -0500 1910 Date: 13 Dec 1995 10:30:35 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: MajorDomo Bitten by Joe Lucas! OK, what's going on today! 6 out of thirty messages transmitted in the end-of-day recoup? Are the near-real-time subscribers having the same problems? If not, I = may as well try my luck with the real-time list! On a different note - anyone have used bench or rear, inward-facing jump = seats that they'd like to part with? I've looked over the NAS D90 SW jump = seats, and they appear to be the same as the 110's, but I can't find any = significant difference between them and the 88"'s jump seats to justify = the cost difference (+US$200 for the 110's/90's, based on RN and AB = quotes, versus the 110's replacement cost, which didn't include seat = belts). Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons = on inside trim from Chevrolet? There's more plastic trim inside than I've = seen on many other cars, reminds me of a cheap domestic pickup truck; = definitely mixed signals - trying to make the D90 as civilized as the = Disco or Rangy! Darn thing even has carpeting all over (I can imagine = what mud and creek fording will do to that after a few years!). Bill Skidmore 94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!) From Russell Burns Wed Dec 13 8:01:13 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 8:01:13 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re:D90 SW > Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons = > on inside trim from Chevrolet? There's more plastic trim inside than I've = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Bill Skidmore > 94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!) Ya but you can almost justify buying one for the wife. Russ Burns 91 Range Rover (77K miles dirty, scratched and dented) 94 D-90 (38K also dirty, scratched and dented) 95 D90 SW on order for the wife.... From Donald Unger Wed Dec 13 08:20:17 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:20:17 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Unger Subject: Military Land Rovers for SALE Lion Hearted Vehicles here in Oregon has Shorland MKIII APVs and 101s for sale. Contact Greg Cash, Lionhearted Vehicles (Fax/Phone 541-946-1611) for details. I am not affiliated in any way with the company. Don Unger From Larry James Wed Dec 13 09:01:30 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: Larry James Subject: subscribe subscribe From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Wed Dec 13 09:16:35 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:16:35 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what additional parts or changes might be required to mount the hard top. I seem to recall that there were some peculiarities about the rear door that needed to be changed on the '94 compared to the '95. Didn't the door lock or handle change or something like that? TIA Cheers, Jeremy From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Wed Dec 13 09:36:59 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:36:59 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Re: Military Land Rovers for SALE I called them this morning, and the fax # is just a regular phone. I tried to send a fax, but the guy picked up instead. So, I talked w/him for about 5 minutes. He's got 1 (one) 101 coming from England in a container and should be here around February. I've been down this road before (see: Roverworks), so am real leary of an operation like this. However, if you're interested in a 101 it might be worth a call. I'm sending him a copy of the LRO list as he's on e-mail. His address BTW is: MILVEH@aol.com Good luck. I may go down to see it when/if it ever gets here. Later, Michael From Gary Mitchelson Wed Dec 13 13:30:25 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:30:25 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Popular Science -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From Mike Fredette~ Wed Dec 13 11:58:31 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:58:31 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? > I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 > in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > door lock or handle change or something like that? > Jeremy The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say. The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not. So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the unsightly notch left over for the low low bargain basement price of $84.00. Just buy the hard top and order the rivnuts from RN for a nickle or so each and build your own piece o plastic. I've had mine on for a year now, no leaks and much quieter than the soft top, a bit fragile though. I crunched it pretty good on a tree while screwing up the line on a nasty side slope. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 D90 67 88 RHD Phoenix Az, soon to be Portland again From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 14:04:24 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:04:24 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: sub $1000. land rovers abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) writes: > Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid, working, h > appy series for under $2,000.00? Well, lets see, my IIA is in great shape and it cost me just under $1000. Then there was a rear cross member w/ extentions, a gas tank outrigger, a set of 16" LWB wheels, a spare diff, another spare diff, with axle case, an engine, a safari SW top, a tail gate, a tailgate top, tail gate fixings, mud sheilds, ignition parts, genuine brake parts (near all of 'em), genuine clutch parts (most of 'em), steering parts (some of 'em), the odd genuine gasket (lots of 'em), a battery and a wee bit o' labour). Some dosh for the shipping company, some more for the docks and a bit for customs. So to date my sub-$1000. Land Rover only has chewed a hole about about six times bigger in my pocket, and I've only had it in my possession for a total of 10 days driven it four times (another month in a container and another 10 days at my mechanic's in Berkhamstead before it was shipped). > I want some of the drugs he is on!! I dare say you can't afford to do drugs if you own an old Rover. > Not that one can't find a great little freaker '88 for under $5,000, but > that is a significant jump in price. Well, not really :-) Anyone one interested in a solid-sided top for an 88" (after I assemble my safari top that is). Cheers, --bill caloccia@openmarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ R 1 3 2wd H "Land Rover's first, because +--|--| o | Land Rovers last." 2 4 4wd L '63 SIIa 88" - '72 & '90 Range Rover From "Gerald" Wed Dec 13 16:19:06 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:19:06 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: 96 shop manuals Anyone have a source for 96 shop manuals for Discos? Metro West says that they won't be in for a while. Do they exist yet for any 96 LR products, NAS or otherwise? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Dec 13 13:47:15 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:47:15 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Popular Science In message <199512131835.NAA10666@butler.uk.stratus.com> Gary Mitchelson writes: > In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new ; Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee > thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" ; > Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! That they are NOT trendy???? Ever look at the new Range Rover?? Those cars were never ment for off road driving. The side steps and front valance would hang up in no time. I asked the dealer about this once. He said that they were told that the purchaser will never take these cars off roading. They are ment to take people to ski lodges in style. While the Discos are very off road capable, they were designed to take only small diameter tyres and have those plastic dohickies on the sides just aching to be broken. All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people have been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of water They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From Christopher Boese Wed Dec 13 14:39:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:39:00 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Popular Science TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles. When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 90. But I live in the area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and so can't drive convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time and would have cost more than my Discovery in any case. If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might have put a basic Land Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars and gotten better off-road performance besides. BTW, with the first rains of the winter this morning, my Discovery has begun to leak, apparently out of the left rear speaker housing. Wasn't there a post on this a couple of months ago? Perhaps I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 13 17:40:34 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:34 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Major woes Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted out. Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message of 12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest. "Doctor Watson...come quickly...." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From William Owen Wed Dec 13 16:40:45 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:40:45 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions I've started looking for a 87-90 (maybe even a 91 if I wait a few months) Range Rover. Currently drive a 88 Cherokee and am ready for a more serious and capable off road vehicle. I love the disco but can't afford a new one ( yet!). This will be a daily driver as well as off road vehicle. It will see snow, muddy fields and trails, and creek and ditch crossings. Probably not much rock hopping, but one never knows. I know the D90 and Disco have locking center diffs and open rear diffs. The newer RR don't seem to have even locking center diffs but do have Traction control. I am guessing that Traction Control involves the anti lock brake system, but am not sure. The dealer only says it "puts power to all four wheels" - not real helpful. I also don't believe TC was available on the older models I'm considering. In addition, I am somewhat concerned about the open rear diff and whether this will affect performance and traction. I have read that it doesn't matter in a RR and am sold on the RR over all, just looking for a little reassurance as to the effect of open rear diffs on traction, especially in snow and mud. Sure would hate to see a Cherokee with LSD have to pull me out. So . . . What is traction control and is it available on the older RR I'm considering? Should I be concerned about the lack of locking center diffs and the open rear diffs? especially as it relates to snow and mud traction. Is there any other advice anyone can give me as I search for my RR? Things to look for or to avoid. I've heard 89 is better than 87-88. True? Thanks in advance for all your help. A hopefully soon to be Range Rover owner From "John Y. Liu" Wed Dec 13 14:35:14 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:35:14 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 15:19:22 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:19:22 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Popular Science >From: Christopher Boese[SMTP:cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us] >When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 90. But I live in the >area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and so can't drive >convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time and would have cost >more than my Discovery in any case. You're not complaining about your Disco, now, are you? Though, I have to confess, that I've secretly thought about trading mine for a Hard-Top D-90 since it has the back seats and all...... >If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might have put a basic Land >Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars and gotten better >off-road performance besides. I doubt that it's anything like that. My guess is that since LR only sells such a small number of cars in the North American market (relatively speaking) it only makes economic sense to sell the Hi-end (i.e. High Margin) units. The "mystique" of being a status symbol makes it that much easier to charge "full" price. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 18:21:41 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:21:41 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Major woes > Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the > first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted > out. Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message o f > 12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest. "Doctor Watson...come > quickly...." Hi y'all, Well, I looked at a case the other day, but was unable to detect the source of the problem - and part of that might be because the real-timers messages are 'digested' individually, though by a slightly different script (the script that does the daily digest is a bit more complicated as it deals with multiple messages and has to re-start at the start of the next message, etc.) So, there are no apparent goofy things that the real-time folks receive. Cheers, -B From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 07:20:28 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:20:28 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Regarding centre diff lock: the newer Range Rovers have a viscous coupling in place of the original manually locked centre diff. This is in effect an automatically locking centre diff, ie allows differential action up to a point, similar to the torque converter in an automatic tranny. AFAIK much superior to the original set up as it is simpler and more reliable. Regarding traction control and open diffs: the electronic traction control (ETC), employs sensors which detect wheelspin and apply brakes to that wheel via the ABS, thereby transferring torque to the wheel that isn't spinning. A nice idea but to me it seems a bit gimmicky and prone to problems. I would much rather see some sort of locking diff instead. For some reason Land Rover seem to resist the idea of locking diffs, relying on superior axle travel to keep them ahead of the competition. Best bet is to chuck in a set of ARB air lockers. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Thu Dec 14 10:29:58 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 10:29:58 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Others may be able to answer this better, but, in the time period between locking centre diffs and Traction control existed the Viscous Coupling. For those who don't know them, a Viscous coupling acts like an open diff under normal conditions, but automatically and gradually locks up when a predetermined degree of slip is encountered. Never looked at one closely but have read that they are about the size of a jam tin, full of closely spaced plates with a special fluid between them, which I think is supposed to increase dramatically in viscosity when subjected to shear. (Classified as a non-Newtonian fluid in fluid mech), thus locking up the input & output of the jam tin. Regards James Carley Sydney Australia '85 110 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 10:14:18 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:14:18 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Ruggedness... TeriAnn writes the depressing truth: > All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people > have been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. > See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 > feet of water How about after wading in 2 - 3 metres. These new vehicles would be basket cases.... At least with the old series (and to a certain extent the base D90's and 110"s) jobbies all you had to do was find a good fire hose. Mind you getting the "tide mark" out of the hood lining takes time... Still if I just leave it covered in dust no one notices. I suppose this is the price we have to pay for our kidneys lasting longer :-( cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Wed Dec 13 15:40:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:40:29 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: 2.25 Black cleaning Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine. My questions are: - How and with what do I clean the block? I have all the freeze plugs out and I also want to clean the water and oil ways. - How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine look pretty scratched up. - Should I take out the soft pipe plug at the front of the fuel pump side? - What, if any sealant should I used when I reinstall the plugs? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanx, 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 16:23:07 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:23:07 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Ruggedness... I think you could pretty much kiss your ECU good bye on the V8i engines (the kind found here in the states) after a 3 meter (10'!!!) or even a 2 meter wading episode. Not to mention the driver unless they are SCUBA equipped! The lack of an ignition system is a powerful advantage to the Diesel engine over the gas (petrol) engine when it comes to submersion. Q: is the fuel injection on the 3.0 TDi Electronic or Mechanical? The lack of all that electronic wizardry would seem to be an advantage in the "wild". Q: doesn't the Turbo object to being dunked in water (shock cooling, etc) ---------- From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 14 11:29:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 11:29:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") I have had fairly extensive 'experience' with water and mud over the door sills and even water over the bonnet (without a cover over the grill to keep it out of the engine in one instance) (in both two and four door Range Rovers and series LR's) and have never had any getting in (in RR's). One thing worth checking (on older models in particular) is that where cabling is running through the bulkhead grommets, they have a liberal coating of water sealant of some sort. And of course ensure all the bungs are in place in the floor and around the gearbox housing. Windows closed and fan on (fresh air, not recirculated) can help "pressurise" the cabin as well!! - this can make escape difficult if you fall into a hole. Make sure you walk the route first! One particular trip in 1979 (in a s111 109) we drove for two days with water over the top of the gear box after flash flooding in the north east of South Australia!!! It would squirt up from the pedals when you changed gear or braked, sloped out of the gear shift gaiter... great fun. It was like being in a moving bath - as it was pretty warm water in November. Had to sleep in it too - watching the brown snakes looking for dry ground - very comforting. Generally the more recent models ('80 onwards are pretty good)! Oh - don't forget to put the wading plug in the bellhousing! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Dec 13 16:39:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:39:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Wading In RR John, In the interest of objective scientific inquiry, I'd suggest that you acquire a representative Range Rover sample and conduct some rigorous testing at different depths and exposure times. You can ignore such variables as stream flow velocities. Jim Russell can verify that exposure time and depth can vary directly with flow 8^) Just hypothetically, I'd expect that a quick trip through a stream depth of 2 feet or so would result in minimal inflows. I'd be inclined to avoid prolonged soaking on the assumption that there will be some places that are not perfectly sealed, and that the water will quickly find those places. In addition, there is the minor question of just how waterproof the Lucas electrical system is on one of these pampered plush-mobiles. I plan to do some testing of my own this winter and if it doesn't work out favorably I'm sure we'll all hear about it from whoever I've conned into going with me on the fateful trip. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, John Y. Liu wrote: > A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 16:47:43 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:47:43 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Popular Science >All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people have >been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. See what >happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of water Been there, done that. (well only up to 2') The Disco seemed to be a lot less nervous about it than the driver (and owner, me) was, Granted, if water started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying. Come on, lighten up. Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!) I'll admit, that it's something like "roughing it" in a 40' Motor home :-) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 19:50:58 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:50:58 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") > A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Ra > nge Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, > ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Actually, the Previous OWners had the interior cleaned and that left the plush carpets soggy. And the foam behind the felt over the transmission tunnel, and the foam behind the rubber under the plush carpets. (Actually that sh*t released the glue holding the foam to the rubber matts !) So I ripped out all the foam and felt and plush carpets and then finished wiring the cell phone and put the rubber matts and those keen tyre-tread matts back in place. I'd consider putting some carpeting back in, but it'd be too much effor to clean it out, and by the time it is warm enough to think about it, it probably will have disintegrated from the cleaner stuff in it. > Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic > -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) Gee, I haven't taken one for a swim yet, but you'll know pretty fast, 'cause the first thing to get soaked (even before the CD player) is the ABS computer (under the drivers seat) and the electric seat motors. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ 1 3 R dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|-+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 ul N H '72 & '90 Range Rover From EvanD103@aol.com Wed Dec 13 20:06:11 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:06:11 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Only got the first five of thirty postings of the digest today. What's going on? I'm having withdrawl symptoms! Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Georgia 1973 Ser III 88" From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 09:22:57 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:22:57 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Wading In RR Shortly after I bought my 110 V8 I decided to test it's wading ability in a small puddle, about 2.5ft deep and 30ft long on a track near Windy Harbour. As soon as I entered the water the engine started to sputter and die. Luckily I just made it to the other end and didn't have to get my feet wet, not that I mind getting wet, more the embarrasment I was worried about. As soon as I got home I waterproofed the ignition with silicone. Shortly after I was transferred to Darwin and the next water crossing I attempted had a very large sign next to it warning of the local infestation of large salt water crocodiles. This crossing was deeper and wider so it was a real case of fingers crossed... Anyway it worked; I seem to remember reading somewhere that the V8 is specially designed so that the front pulley sprays water directly on to the distributor; neat. I also read somewhere of a chap in the UK who waterproofs his distributor with spray on polystyrene foam! This is only vaguely relevant to the thread of the discussion.. Cheers. Tony. From "Nick C. Baggarly" Wed Dec 13 17:32:37 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 17:32:37 -0800 From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Subject: Wanted Hi I'm partially restoring a Dormobile 109SW and am looking for the following... + original cabinet (This is a dormobile item only. Rare, I know). + door panel- Front right upholstered in rhino hide + 1/2 roof rack (fits over the cab area only) with tension clamps (I'm especially looking for these clamps with the big tension screw knob) + like new headliner Contact me if you have, or know where I can pickup, any of these items. Thanks! Nick C. Baggarly '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) '64 Dormobile Los Gatos, Cale From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 12:20:17 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:20:17 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum.. > Granted, if water started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying. This is the crux of the problem, In some places its not a matter of if, but when and how deep. Unless you are *very* heavily laden there may come a time when the vehicle wants to float, (eg Reynolds river crossing in Litchfield park NT Oz.) If you hope to continue some water *must* enter the car to reduce the bouyancy. At the reynolds its usually about 3-4" over the drivers floor and 1-2" across the rear load bay on a sIII 109 wagon before you get full traction again. Now I know that early 2dr rangies could get away with only an inch or so over the front floor, the long droop on the suspension mops up the rest.. I dont know how the new rangies and disco go, never been there when one drove through nor have I seen one stuck so they must make it OK. > Come on, lighten up. > Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned > luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to > the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's > while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!) Absolutely nothing wrong with riding in comfort (I'm just jealous really), I just dont like the idea of any vital and/or expensive electronic gizmos below about the level of the seat base in vehicles that are going to be used for deep extended water crossings. Call me a reactionary.... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From David Rosenbaum Wed Dec 13 18:24:08 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:24:08 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Popular Science On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote: (snip) > I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) Dear Chris: My D-90 is two years old and hardly leaks at all with the soft-top on. If it sits in the rain so that water collects on the top, then water will run off the top as you're getting in (weight shifting) and this water sometimes gets inside. Otherwise, it is great in the rain. I have gotten drenched on those occasions when it rains or pours and the Land Rover is *topless*.....And I keep towels under the dash for wiping off the inside of the windshield when driving under those conditions Best wishes from ..... Seattle. David '94 D90 (turns two in two weeks!) From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 10:29:29 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:29:29 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum.. Ever since reading about all the electronic gismos in the new RR I have had this recurring vision: The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine management chip fuses into a little useless blob, the RR settles gently on it's electronic air suspension with a slight hiss, the AC cuts out, AC/DC on the CD player are cut off in mid scream, you can't open the windows, the security system goes into terminal overload and permanently locks the doors, the electronic seat controls, in a dying spasm, shove the seat forward and trap you against the steering column,.....silence descends,.....the temperature starts to rise,.... Two months later you are discovered. With a last dying gasp from the battery a message is scrolling across the diagnostic display.... check driver.........check driver........check driver....... Happy thoughts. #;-) From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Wed Dec 13 21:30:54 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:30:54 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: 2.25 Black cleaning Chris Youngson wrote, >Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine. >My questions are: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >- How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine > look pretty scratched up. Chris, there is virtually no other way to be sure the oil and water passages are clear unless you take the block to a machine shop equipped with a boiling tank and have it done. This is not expensive and very much worth the money. If you're installing a new camshaft, then I would definitely change the bearings out if they appear that scratched. If you're putting the old one back in, and there isn't excessive play in the shaft, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Probably get years of service. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 14:00:41 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:00:41 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Tony muses: > The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a > summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine > management chip fuses into a little useless blob < rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares.> Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks. Does anyone have a copy of the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-) and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke river "track". Urrgh nasty stuff. I want my teddie bear...... -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 14:02:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:02:23 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Tony muses: > The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a > summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine > management chip fuses into a little useless blob < rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares. > Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks. Does anyone have a copy of the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-) and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke river "track". Urrgh nasty stuff. I want my teddie bear...... -- Daryl From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 13 22:44:11 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:44:11 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Reposting of US Camel Trophy finalists Since the major chomped the 12/13 digest, here's a repost of the results... After thirty two hours of near non-stop exertion, the four finalists for the US Camel Trophy team were selected over the weekend at the Hollister Hills ORV area in northern California. The competitors will advance to the international trials in Seville, Spain, where two will be selected to represent the US in the next Camel Trophy in Kalimantan, Borneo. The finalists are: Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, New Jersey. Ken Cameron, 26, a carpenter from Vail, Colorado. Fred Hoess, 29, a mortocycle racer from Stanhope, New Jersey, Greg Oberst, 36, firefighter and paramedic from Seal Beach, California. These four were chosen from the nine participants; there were 400 applications for the US team. Originally, ten were selected to compete, but Mark Ritter (who is on the LRO list) withdrew at the last moment. An airline pilot, he aggravated an old injury whilst rock climbing a week earlier, and after consulting with Tom Collins, the US team coordinator, he withdrew from the competition. (Sorry to hear about that, Mark.) *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 11:48:06 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:48:06 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Canning and fires. Speaking of fires and such - on a recent trip up the Canning by the LROCWA a Nissan Patrol, which was the only petrol powered vehicle in the group, caught fire while driving through seeding spinifex. After the driver was alerted by CB, he found a clear spot and evacuated with his passengers. They managed to save one bag, and despite the application of several small extinguishers the vehicle plus most of their gear was burnt to the ground. Which brings me to the other disadvantage of modern petrol powered vehicles - the catalytic converter. This little firestarter runs considerably hotter than the rest of the exhaust and can very easily start grass fires if you are not very very careful. (Those people gazing out of the window at a snow covered landscape need not be concerned). :-) Tony. From PDoncaster@aol.com Wed Dec 13 22:57:42 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:57:42 -0500 From: PDoncaster@aol.com Subject: Problem 12-13-95 Digest I didn't get the entire digest today. Did this happen to anyone elce????? Could somone foreward me a copy?? Thanks in advance Peter Doncaster New Orleans, USA '64 IIA 88 SF SW From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Wed Dec 13 23:03:18 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:18 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts, Ser II Ron Franklin writes: >Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II >pickup ? snip >drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on >the Koenig L621 PTO winch. I have the original parts and owners manuals for >all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps. Ah! I too have a Keonig winch which I have yet to mount on my IIA due to lack of a mounting plate and fairleads. It is not the cab control version but would be interested in converting it if possible. I was also missing the drive piece that mounts to the crankshaft in place of the crank handle socket and had been advised that British Northwest Land Rovers in Wash. State had parts. Now, this was a couple years ago when I wasn't as wise as I am now. I called them up and spoke to Charles Kellogg who told me he had one there. I asked him to send it along. Well after a long discussion about LRs I had neglected to ask him the price before hanging up, but I didn't give it much concern at the time since I knew what the piece looked like, it's not much really, just a machined slug with a couple of drive dogs, so I figured it wouldn't be that much. Well a couple weeks later I received the part along with a bill for 275 US dollars in fabrication fees. OUCH! After letters to Kellogg and much fighting with my credit card company, I was not able to get my money back. Hard lesson learned. Anyway, since then I've heard many horror stories regarding this outfit, and in a way, after my experience these are somewhat gratifying to hear. Okay, sorry, I just had to vent that. Back to the winch: I think the casting you're referring to must have been the weak point in this winch as the PO of mine had front ended something and smashed it, so mine has a bracket which someone had quite expertly fabricated from heavy guage steel in place of it. Let me know if you want a picture of it or something. Regarding parts, after my experience with Kellogg, I found out that Charlie Haigh at Rovers North, Vermont is quite knowledgable about these things andFrom Richard Jones Thu Dec 14 9:49:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 9:49:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions William Owen writes: > considering? Traction control requires ABS to be fitted and has only be available for the past couple of years. > Should I be concerned about the lack of locking center diffs and the > open rear diffs? especially as it relates to snow and mud traction. The earlier Range Rovers you are looking at are likely to be just like the Discovery with a manual locking center diff. The later onles are fitted with a viscouse coupled device. In practice all it means is that the later Range Rovers decide when they want the center diff locked and lock it, instead of waiting to see if the driver remembers before getting stuck :-) > Is there any other advice anyone can give me as I search for my RR? > Things to look for or to avoid. I've heard 89 is better than 87-88. True? Depends what you want. Later vehicle have more goodies, but are not necessarily a better long term prospect than a well cared for earlier (and simpler to maintain) model. That said, I would like Classic Range Rover with ABS, Traction Control and Air Suspension but they weren't available when my Range Rover was built in 1973. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 14 05:14:30 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 05:14:30 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Winge moan... Hi all, can you please use carriage returns in your submissions. Most day's there is somebody who doesn't and my mail program decides that it isn't a note if it is too wide and handles it differently. It also makes it really hard to print 4 to a page and take home to read, as I often don't get time during the day. Today's worst offender was (sorry to name names, but you are probably unaware of your most heanous crime)... John Lui with 350 characters 70 characters is a good width as it allows a little room for cock ups. The prize for the best effort goes to David Bobeck who appears to be aiming at one word per line :-) No danger of that over spilling the margins. This really only screws up digestives like me as the odd duff short note on the live list probably wouldn't get printed to paper. Can the disester prog edit long lines to split them automatically? Regards, Sgt. A.Retentive LRO submission Police. Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited 14 95 Dec GM 1910 Date: 14 Dec 95 10:42:17 GM From: Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited Subject: 1985 - 110 for sale Thanks to Walter Swain for pointing out the missing underscore in my e-mail address, as mentioned to him, it must be the trauma of selling a loved one that has affected my speeling and sintacks. So please note the missing underscore between the Tony and the Kingston. Location North East Hampshire, UK My 1985 110 is sadly up for sale. For the last 18 months we have been using it to transport kids, dogs, and horses to and from schools, walks and shows respectively. Mainly been driven by my wife on a daily basis, apart from a short stint of 50 miles per day when I used it for the daily commute to work. It must now go due the purchase of a small holding and the need for a tractor/jcb type vehicle. Details 2.5L Diesel (N/A) (blows a little oil but recently passed emissions test at MOT) Gearbox fully reconditioned 12k miles ago (18 months) MOT'd until September 1996 Taxed until summer 1996 Avon Rangemasters all round Full length roof rack Capstan Winch (front mounted) Ex British Telecom vehicle (regularly serviced, but no service history) Good chassis (spent most of it's life on the roads) Colour is light Grey (externally oversprayed by BT from the previous yellow colour) This vehicle has never ever let us down. I looking for around UK Pounds 4250 If interested? send mail to Tony_Kingston@MTITS.CO.UK and I'll tell you more about it. Tony From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 14 07:40:55 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:40:55 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Digest problems /internet /to johnliu@earthlink.net /end Hi John, the last message on the failed digest was from you. Could it have been one of these 500 column wide epics you send? Could this be what is screwing up the digester? Can you try a controlled experiment where you send a short note (ie less than 70 columns wide) to test my theory. I may be mad, but please humour me. Thanks, Sgt. A.Nally-Retentive LRO Submissions Police Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 14 12:57:36 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:57:36 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: standards vs. automatics ... ? The now famous Icelandic glacier driving nutters always use autos cos they are better to trickle down the power inn very slippery situations. Conversely the LR 2.25 and 2.5 deiseld are notoriously hard to trickle with due to the governers. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 14 Dec 95 7:57:08 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Carburetor Icing! What to do? All right you bunch of rocket scientists, here's one for you..... Start the car in the morning and get halfway to work and the engine loses power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that out and it runs fine..... What caused it? What DO I DO ABOUT IT? Label me, Pissed off in Boston..... From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 14 08:05:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:05:04 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- thanks for the reply . I've traveled much the same route you did, but learned early the high asking price of these items in the Pacific Northwest, and decided it would be cheaper to buy one of the supposedly non-existent sub $2500 rovers which seem to get advertised here in Maine frequently. As for the other leads on the present whereabouts of any repair parts through current or past owners of the Koenig company, all are at present dead ends to the detriment of my phone bill. If Charlie is listening, thanks for the lead anyway. Randall, I would like to hear how your repair was done if all else fails, so if I have no luck elsewhere I'll be in touch, and it's kind of you to offer. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 14 Dec 95 8:34:24 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts Have you guys thought about making up a pattern and just aluminum-casting it? If it's a bit that won't take a lot of stress (lever mount or some such), it's easy enough to do. I do it, melting the aluminum over the same burner I use for homebrewing (200,000 BTU - no waiting!). A few firebricks stacked around it makes a good heatshied, and the aluminum will go pretty quickly. Sounds like a great reuse for all the old Birmabright lying around in your back yard. ... aj"Or weld it up from plate stock"r From Sekerere@aol.com Thu Dec 14 08:42:07 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:42:07 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest What is Majordomo doing this is a bunch of baloney these truncated digests which we receive with one message out of 20+++ messages. What's going on folks From ey-postmaster@geis.com Thu Dec 14 12:25:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:25:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 9177705 Original Msg Id: 493362 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Thu 14-Dec-95 12:25 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Gerald" Thu Dec 14 09:02:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:02:05 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Cracked outside mirror The drivers outside mirror on my Disco cracked yesterday. What are these mirrors made of? They look to be plastic. I had not adjusted it for a while and I am afraid that adjusting it now will shatter it. I think the cold weather of that past week (down to -15 C) may have done it. Saw 5 Disco's in one day but not in a position to wave at any of them. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Thu Dec 14 09:02:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:02:05 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Carburetor Icing! What to do? Carb ice - caused by the cooling effect of the changing pressure in the throat - happens a lot on carb equipped airplanes. The answer is to keep the carb warmer. How do you do that? Depends on the engine. Fortunate you saw the ice, when it happened to me the ice melted so quickly there was no physical evidence left. On 14 Dec 95 at 7:57, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: . . . . > Start the car in the morning and get halfway to work and the engine loses > power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked > in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that > out and it runs fine..... -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:14:08 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:14:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning Chris Youngson asks: > - How and with what do I clean the block? Call engine shops until you find one that does hot tanking. That uses lye and will clean everything qiute well. It will strip the piant off. The shop can tell you if you need new bearings and answer your other questions also. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:19:42 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:19:42 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: fires. Tony Yates writes: Snip > Which brings me to the other disadvantage of modern petrol powered > vehicles - the catalytic converter. This little firestarter runs > considerably hotter than the rest of the exhaust and can very easily > start grass fires if you are not very very careful. Too true. A couple of years ago outside of Leesburg, VA at a hosre show, about 10-15 (or more maybe) cars were burned to a crisp when the catalytic converter on a car started the grass on fire in the field that was being used for perking. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 14 06:20:54 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:20:54 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") I have only had it in mud that deep, and every thing was all right as long as you exited thru the windows, and left the muddy boots on the hood.... Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 At 02:35 PM 12/13/95 -0800, John Y. Liu wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:30:03 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:30:03 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Koenig winch parts I posted this several months ago, but perhaps those in teh need now didn't then. I called Koenig quite a few years ago looking for parts. I talked to a fellow there who said they had discontinued the mfg. of my model, but had a bunch of parts left over. He also said that they would probably be selling off the parts as a lot to some outfit in Florida that bought parts from discontinued models. I may have scribbled the pertinant names & numbers on an envelope my parts list is in. If so, I still have them and will post. ps. He said, back then, they still had the LR in the back lot that they used for testing. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 14 06:36:24 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:36:24 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Carburetor Icing! What to do? I had this problem with an escort I burned up all the vacume hoses in a fire... You need some carb heat. Usally there is a pipe from the exaust manifold to the card. This provides pre heated air in cold damp places. Russ Burns At 07:57 AM 12/14/95 EST, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >All right you bunch of rocket scientists, here's one for you..... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked >in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that >out and it runs fine..... >What caused it? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >What DO I DO ABOUT IT? > Label me, Pissed off in Boston..... Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Bill Skidmore" 14 1995 Dec -0500 1909 Date: 14 Dec 1995 09:41:08 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Yes, John, there is a GOD! My local dealer took everyone out on a familiarization drive in October to = the Pine Barrens of New Jersey (Skill Level 1). At one ppoint they had to = cross a stream, which was unnormally swollen due to heavy October rains. = The dealer and the contractor off-road instruction team staked out the = path that the vehicles were to cross through, but don't you know that a RR = 4.0SE decided to depart that path!!! Water up past the engine hood! = Water came in through the drain holes in the floor, and almost everything = electrical got wet. I was told that the owner was busy laughing and = bailing water as her vehicle was sinking! The Service Manager was telling = me about the concern that the onboard computer (ECU?) would have to be = replaced entirely. I suspect that the CD and many other components also = had to be replaced, but don't know if the delaer bit the bullet and did = the work and parts under warranty. BS ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Thu, Dec 14, 1995 ------ From Ray Harder Thu Dec 14 08:36:15 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:36:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Popular Science On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote: > I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) hey, we series LROs with hardtops and no headliners carry towels -- it rains inside when the humidity is high even if it is not raining outside. put on the brakes and you are sure to get a sudden downpour. besides, the towels are excellent for wiping the windshield after the defroster gets through. ccray (siia 88 (lulu)) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 14 Dec 95 9:52:56 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning >Call engine shops until you find one that does hot tanking. That uses >lye and will clean everything qiute well. It will strip the piant >off. The shop can tell you if you need new bearings and answer your >other questions also. If you hot-tank the block, you will need to replace the cam bearings in any case. The lye will eat them up, or so I am told. Personally, If I'm that far into an engine, I'd go for it. The extra few bucks is worth the peace of mind and oil pressure. Alan From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 09:14:10 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:14:10 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning > If you hot-tank the block, you will need to replace the cam bearings in any > case. The lye will eat them up, or so I am told. Yep, it will also eat aluminum and lead. > Personally, If I'm that far into an engine, I'd go for it. The extra few bucks > is worth the peace of mind and oil pressure. I agree. If your cam journals need grinding you can get oversize cam bearings. If not from a LR parts house, then the shop can modify generic ones to fit. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 14 Dec 95 10:14:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Popular Science >hey, we series LROs with hardtops and no headliners carry towels -- >it rains inside when the humidity is high even if it is not raining >outside. put on the brakes and you are sure to get a sudden >downpour. besides, the towels are excellent for wiping the >windshield after the defroster gets through. Easy fix! Get some felt carpet underlayment for auto use. It comes in various weights, but I used the heaviest (28 ounce). Mount this to the inside of the top, and it makes it warmer, quieter and eliminates the rain problem as the water doesn't condense on the felt. Cheap, too. the local supplier I buy it from gets me for about $4 a yard for 36-inch-wide material. Re: Wiping the windshield: Not with my Kodiak.....8*) I can get the cab to 90 with no effort... Drool on, envious rabble....8*) -Alan From MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Thu Dec 14 7:50:29 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 7:50:29 -0500 (EST) From: MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Subject: RE:Hydraulic winches On 11 Dec 95, Mark Ritter asked about the phone number for the Mile Marker brand of hydraulic winches... Their number is 1-800-426-8646... I haven't tried this unit, but it seems like a good idea. let me know what you find out. HTH. M.Day mday@narvax.nar.epa.gov From William Owen Thu Dec 14 09:48:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:48:00 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Thanks for all your quick and helpful responses concerning the RR's center diff., etc. If only the dealer knew as much. I gather that the late 80's (87up) models have the Viscous Coupling with no manual locking. I would have thought that manual locking would be slightly superior, traction wise, to a VCU. Why else would they put it in the D90 and disco. Do the d90 and disco use a VCU when the diff is not locked? Anyway the impression I'm getting is that I should not worry about lack of locking center diff or open rear diff. If I get real serious I can always get Air Lockers on the rear. I also gather that to get the larger engine I need an 89 or newer. How important Is the power and/or reliability difference. Finally, I need a 91 or newer to get ABS and even newer to get electronic traction control. Looks like an 89 would be ideal, giving me the larger engine and a VCU at a reasonable price. Time to go look through the ads again. Thanks again for all your advice, and for any more that you may send. I'll let you know how my search goes and, hopefully, how the RR compares to the Jeep on the trail. Not that I don't already know the answer. :) From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 14 08:19:03 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:19:03 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: 96 shop manuals I bought the '95 shop manual and binder a couple of weeks ago. The pages of the manual are shrink-wrapped. There was a second set of shrink-wrapped pages included that contained a September '95 update. This second set had the '96 stuff. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 16:19 13.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anyone have a source for 96 shop manuals for Discos? Metro West says [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com From PZavaletta@aol.com Thu Dec 14 11:58:24 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:58:24 -0500 From: PZavaletta@aol.com Subject: No More Squeaky Steering Wheel! To Those Disco and Rangie Owners With the Squeaky Steering Wheel: About two weeks ago I posted to the list the fact that my '95 RR County Classic had the squeaky steering wheel, and that my dealer had the part fix on back-order, asking if anyone knew of a lubricating fix to the problem. In response I received the following: "OK. This one's easy, I fixed it myself and so can you. The problem is a rubber to metal contact between the steering column and a rubber collar that fits around the column at the firewall. The short term fix (but not too short based on my experience) is to grease this contact point; the long term fix per a service bulletin is to replace this collar with a nylon version that doesn't make noise in cold weather. High tech, huh? If you have a cartridge style grease gun, some lithium grease, and an old paint brush you're set. If you don't, run out to TrakAuto or whatever you have nearby and spend a few bucks. The gun and a grease cartridge should be <$20; you really ought to have one anyway with your off-roading and the potential for a Hummer in the driveway. I used marine grade lithium because I already had it for our sailboat, so it shouldn't mind getting wet. Anyway, pop the hood and look for the place where the steering column penetrates the firewall. You'll see a black rubber collar and then a recessed area all around the column itself. Insert the tip of the grease gun into this recessed area on one side of the column and pump the gun once; repeat the process on the other side of the column. Use the old paintbrush (I had an old one about 1" wide that I'm keeping in a Ziploc bag for future 'repairs') and use the bristles to work the grease all around the recessed area, i.e. on all sides of the column, being sure to force it as far as possible into the contact area. Voila. No more squeaks, and you'll be amazed how much smoother the steering feels! If you just have some lithium grease and a paint brush you may be able to get by with simply applying the grease with the brush, but I think that the grease gun really helped to get the grease where it was needed most." I did this and I am happy to say that seven days later, including two in sub-freezing temperatures, the fix works like a charm. Thanks to the individuals that posted and emailed this fix to me. Anyone with this problem in either their disco or rangie ought to do this right away. Thanks again, Peter M. Zavaletta 1995 Alpine White Range Rover County Classic (aka 'Winston, 12,700 miles) P.S. In case anyone is considering a Classic, I highly recommend it - this is the only 'problem' I have had and the car seems very well built, heavy and solid. I HIGHLY recommend it, but buy now because 1995 is the last year. From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Dec 14 12:08:40 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:08:40 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: misc. ramblings Hi all: 1. I was thinking of building a spare v8 with stroked crank (using Buick 300 crank) It could be done with all-US parts for about US$1500 for a complete short block. Since most of this cost is machine work, if we build 2, I suspect we can reduce the costs. Anyone? anyone? Bueler? (PS thanks to the OZ and the UK contingent for the v8 info) 2. Don't the 3.5 and the 3.9 differ only in bores? Same crank? I always thought so, but the people who "prepared" my Landie just told me that the crank strokes are diff. I _hope_ they're right, or I'll have to go through the brakes etc. that these "experts" touched :) Actually, thinking back, these guys are jokers, as one told me that the center diff only needs to be locked if you're _really_ stuck. Yikes, better take a close look at all vital systems on the Landie. 3. (really misc.) Isn't it funny that 2 out of 4 CT US team finalists are from NJ- probably the most paved state in the US? Jan (in NJ) From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 14 12:43:13 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:43:13 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: fires. Too true. A couple of years ago outside of Leesburg, VA at a hosre show, about 10-15 (or more maybe) cars were burned to a crisp when the catalytic converter on a car started the grass on fire in the field that was being used for perking. Mmm... catalytic converter coffee. Starbucks new flavor... Rover Roast! Dave B. From Robert Kolander Thu Dec 14 12:09:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:09:05 -0600 From: Robert Kolander Subject: WANTED: Defender 90 I'm looking for a used (prefer 95) Defender 90. The fewer options the better. My price range is the low to mid $20's (dep. on miles, cond, and experiences...) and I'm willing to "buy long distance" as the saying goes, but only within the continental region (Canada incl). I'm currently in Minnesota, and haven't been able to track one down anywhere. Maybe Defender owners here just don't want to sell ;-) please contact me if you know of a LR that fits my description... thanks - Bob K. kolan001@maroon.tc.umn.edu http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/m210/kolan001/ From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Thu Dec 14 13:28:10 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:28:10 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Secret Agent >he was found out he hopped into a 107 pickup, which in the next cut was a >SII 88 hardtop ( can't beat that continuity). The bad guys then chased him Read the closing credits closely next time. I'll bet you'll find the person in charge of "Continuity" was named Lucas... RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 14 13:27:33 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 13:27:33 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Winge moan... The prize for the best effort goes to David Bobeck who appears to be aiming at one word per line :-) No danger of that over spilling the margins. Wow. You mean I win something ? Dave "default margin syndrome" Bobeck From benedick@emh1.pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Thu Dec 14 13:43:41 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:43:41 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Subject: Re: No More Squeaky Steering Wheel! Peter Wrote: >About two weeks ago I posted to the list the fact that my '95 RR County >Classic had the squeaky steering wheel, >I did this and I am happy to say that seven days later, including two in >sub-freezing temperatures, the fix works like a charm. >Thanks to the individuals that posted and emailed this fix to me. I must give credit where credit is due: This info. can from Stuart Williams. He sent it to me and I only passed it on. (You can send him the $10 as the "copyright" fee) From John Antram Thu Dec 14 13:39:35 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: John Antram Subject: Discovery Tires/Tyres Hello everyone; I'm having quite a hard time with finding Snow tires for my '95 Discovery. I've been told by LRNA ( customer service line ) that the standard equipment tires are great in the snow; I'd rate them well, but they are not quite enough for Vermont mt. passes everyday. With the cost of chains being around $500/axle, I was wondering if anyone had put 225/75 R16's on instead of the standard 235/70 R16's. The main reason is that there are good snow tires made in 225/75 but hardly anyone even makes all-seasons in 235/70. The dealer says the 225's will be fine and LRNA says they'll be asking for an accident... who's right? John Antram rewt@sover.net RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, Vt 05753 1972 Land Rover Series III 88" red, sunroofs 1995 Land Rover Discovery 5-speed, sunroofs, Roman Bronze 1987 Mercedes Benz 300 SDL Anthracite Gray From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Thu Dec 14 09:04:13 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:04:13 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: "The Money Pit" Roverphiles, Some of you (Chris Browne) have asked to hear the story of "The Money Pit" and some of you are contemplating buying a Range Rover. Here's the story and I'll try to keep it brief. 11/94 purchased 90 RR from a hi-line (BMW, MB, RR) used car dealer, 59K miles and in pretty good condition-- dealer fixed a lot of little things under a 100% 30 day warranty. 3/95 replaced complete exhaust from the cat. conv. back 5/95 replace cat. conv. Y pipe and O2 sensors and exhaust manifold gasket 8/95 replace 1 bad ABS sensor and alternator----- also replaced cat. conv. Y pipe and O2 sensors again because the first replacement was a poorly manf. one===Atlantic British replaced the cat. free but I still had to pay for labor again 10/95 replaced headliner which was separating from the foam backing 11/95 replaced water pump 12/95 and wouldn't you know it --- 2 days ago the ABS light comes on again. There you have it -----13 months, all those problems and a couple grand in parts and labor----bbbuuuutttttt----- I still really like this vehicle. If you really want a RR then go for it. Don't let these problems scare you off. There are other people on this list who have had minimal problems with the same model and year. I do have some questions some of you may be able to answer: 1. Does anyone know where to get a water pump rebuilt? Is it worth the price of repair? 2. How do I tell which ABS sensor is faulty? Can I replace it myself? 3. Can I reset the ABS light and if so how? I also still have the corrosion warranty thing I'm working on and thanks to you who responded on that subject. Thanks for listening. I'm thinking of borrowing a name for this vehicle from the BMW list. And that name would be=== BOHICA===. Cheers, Rick 90 RR(The Money Pit) 88 735i 5sp From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:24:09 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:24:09 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Re[2]: fires. > Mmm... catalytic converter coffee. Starbucks new flavor... > Rover Roast! Fortunately, even though it was a horse in Leesburg, no Rover products were burned. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From KKelly6788@aol.com Thu Dec 14 14:25:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:25:23 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: New Range Rover >Ever look at the new Range Rover?? Those cars were never meant for off road >driving This weekend at the U.S. Camel Trophy trials I had the opportunity to drive an new 4.0 SE. I also went for rides in a 4.0 SE driven by LRNA Driving Instructor Bob Burns, and a 4.6 HSE driven by LRNA VP Bill Baker. Both vehicles had no problem with the fairly technical trails at the Hollister Hills Off Road Vehicle Area. The HSE with its 18" wheels and street tires did have some problem on the muddy sections. The vehicles are not set up for rock crawling or travel through jungles, but they will do a lot more than take people to ski lodges in style, and what is wrong with showing up at a ski lodge in style? I was told not to quote him, but an employee of LRNA told me that there is an excellent chance that we will get another NAS 90. When I asked about a NAS 110 he responded "no comment" Kevin Kelly From vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Thu Dec 14 11:27:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:27:04 -0800 From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Subject: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open The '94 D90 (Slo-Mo VI) has the spare mounted on the bonnet which is great but when the release handle is pulled the bonnet doesn't pop up enough to get at the second release. One person has to hold the handle out while the other pries the bonnet up to get at the second release. (It is a steel wheel with a mudder mounted.) We would like to install a stronger spring which would pop the bonnet up a bit when the handle is pulled. LRNA tells me there isn't a stronger spring available any where in the world. I have seen 110s with bonnet mounted spares where the bonnet pops up when the release is pulled. Anyone with ideas, previous experience on installing a stronger spring or other fix? Help! What do you do in the UK, SA and OZ? Appreciate any help. Ted Van Decar Warm regards, Ted From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 14 Dec 95 14:25:09 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Safari Gard Several people have written me asking me if I have recieved the Rock Sliders I ordered about 31/2 weeks ago and if so how I liked them. I am still waiting for them to show up, even though my credit card was charged early this week. I talked with Greg at SG and he indicated that they would not be shipped out this week either. If they are indeed shipped next week it will probobly be the week after before I recieve them for a total delivery time of at least 5 weeks. >From the brouchure I recieved they look good so I am still cautiously optimistic though if you are in a hurry it might be better to find another source. Mark Ritter 94 Disco w/ Steel wheels, mud tires, rear locker and MAYBE Rock Sliders. From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 14 Dec 95 14:25:11 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Winches Well it has come time to fit a winch tothe front of my Disco and I asm looking for some advice. I can get a Superwinch S-9000 for $499 complete with fairlead. I am looking for ways to mount it on the Disco. I do know that I don't want he factory winchmount (way too much $ and UGLY) and I also don't like those reciever type mounts as I want it fixed to the vehicle. Anybody have any experience doing a hidden mount on a Disco? If you have a winch on your Disco write me and tell me how you did it. Mark Ritter 94 Disco w/ Steel wheels, mud tires, rear locker and MAYBE Rock Sliders. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:48:37 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:48:37 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Discovery Tires/Tyres John Antram writes: > Hello everyone; I'm having quite a hard time with finding Snow > tires for my '95 Discovery. I've been told by LRNA ( customer service Snip John, Don't know if they come in the right size but this is what I found for snows. For years (the last 20?) I've used Sears Roadhandler Ice & Snow tires on my various cars and really liked them alot. They performed well in VA, OK, SC, VT and WI winters. This year I bought a set of four Bridgestnoe Blizzak for our Nova. They work great in snow AND ICE. Because of the tread design though, you will only want to run them in the winter and have another set for the rest of the year. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:51:33 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:51:33 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Re[2]: fires. ooops > Fortunately, even though it >was a horse in Leesburg, no Rover products were burned. ^ show Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 15 08:11:00 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 08:11:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Daryl I have most back issues of Overlander for the last 10 years or so... if you know which year/ month I might be able to find it!!! I think there was one on a Mal Douglas doc'o some years ago as well... or was it Alby Mangels (!!!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) ---------- From Wdcockey@aol.com Thu Dec 14 16:17:06 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:17:06 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions The viscous coupling transfer case is made by Borg Warner and was developed especially for the RR. It is almost certainly more expensive than the in-house transfer case with the locking center diff (simple dog clutch vs. vc) used in Def's & Disco's. David Cockey From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Dec 14 18:00:02 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:00:02 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: External Sun Visors I've got some good news and some bad news.... The good news is that the external sun visors are ready. (I said the guy was good, but didn't think he was *that* good.) A month ahead of when promised. :-) The bad news is that the length of these makes them "oversize" for UPS and the post office. That means that shipping will cost the same as a 30# package, even though they weigh <5#. :-( Sooo, you folks who have ordered them, send me your zip code, and I'll be able to figure the shipping costs tomorrow. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Kevan Shaw Thu Dec 14 23:42:30 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:42:30 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Tyres Well here I am having woken up this morning to a flat on the Landie followed by a flat spare. This is the fifth and sixth flats I have had this year! Several calls later one of the local tyre specialists says he has three tubes except there is only one when I get there. It seems my tubes are well past their sell by dates and spontaneously go into holes. Why are these tubes so difficult to get and why are they so expensive? currently =A314.50 each. Does anyone know ofsuitable cheap tubeless rims to fit landies? While I am reviewing the tyre situation has anyone tried the new radial MudPlugga remoulds? I am using 205R16 Michelin pattern M+S remoulds at present which are great on the road but useless on mud, also the prospect of another inch or two ground clearance might save by sills getting so battered and raise the gearing, however I would like to know what they are like on the road. When I got my Landie it was fitted with 600X16 shagged crossplies on the front and 600X16 SAT pattern Olympics on the back which were new and good, the thing wandered all over the road and rode very rough hence the rapid change to radials, by the way I still have the Olympic covers if anyone is interested. The rest of the beast is a series 3 88" diesel. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Thu Dec 14 16:26:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:26:23 -0800 From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? In Wednesday's Digest, Mike Fredette asked for information regarding the D90 "Plastic" Top. Other persons, myself included, could also use the information. If any one responding respond could post it to the Digest, it would appreciated. Ted Van Decar '94 D90 Slo-Mo VI From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 14 16:59:16 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:59:16 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Disco and Lucas Since I bought my 95 Discovery, the radio has always made a buzzing sound immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. Things that make you go, "Hmmmm." _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "John Y. Liu" Thu Dec 14 16:55:40 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:55:40 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: TEST -- Message W/ Carriage Returns OK, I'll post a message using carriage returns. This is it. But I'm on some other mailing lists using majordomo (e.g. the WinVn list and the mercedes list) that haven't had any problems. Although come to think of it I don't usually have much to say about WinVn -- but I do about Mercedes. Let's see if this makes a difference. And then let me know if I should try sending a message NOT using carriage returns, to see if it really makes a difference. Incidentally, I've been also noticing a lot of "repeated" messages. I'm on the real-time list. Do you all think majordomo is sending messages twice? From Bob Jeffries <74223.3326@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1920 Date: 14 Dec 95 20:04:11 EST From: Bob Jeffries <74223.3326@compuserve.com> Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Dec 14 14:39:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 14:39:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Movie Sighting Okay so I was wasting time... It was a 1970 Sci-Fi, very much grade B (maybe a grade C) thing called "Death Ray 2000" but it also is listed with an alternate title "T.R. Bascomb" - about a secret agent that tries to save the world from the bad guys stolen dehydrating death ray. At the conclusion of the film they are in the Swiss Alps. Our hero (and his co- agent played by Ann Turkel) jump into a 109 IIa SW ( with one jerry can stupidly lashed to the side and another on the rear). Quite a bit of action with the 109. Best scene was the one where the rig is reversed at speed (on snow and ice) and then thrown into 1st while still moving backwards fast and given much forward power putting it into a 'power slide'. heh heh heh. yeah right. If the engine on the sound track was from the actual 109 then it must have been the 6-cyl; it definitely did not sound like a 4. Now don't you waste YOUR time watching this drivel. Gerry Mugele 72 88 *** Remember you are unique, just like everyone else. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 15 15:03:00 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 15:03:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: TEST -- Message W/ Carriage Returns Yes there certainly have been a lot of duplicated msg's lately... ---------- From Donald Abbot Fri Dec 15 09:44:18 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:44:18 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Donald Abbot Subject: Re: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Ted VanDecar wrote saying that he has problems with his bonnet release. On both my Series IIA and III I have replaced the bonnet release mechanism with those rally-style T-shaped hooks. No problem. Before doing the Series II, I had the rather unpleasant experience of the bonnet flying up while driving. Obviously this can only happen when the spare is not on the bonnet. As Murphy would have it, it was a dark, misty, wet night and we were travelling flat-out down a long hill. Ever see two people steer a Landie at the same time? Donald From Danny Phillips Fri Dec 15 9:57:59 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 9:57:59 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" > Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! what you mean they have been, oh no i have become a fashion victim, run away :-) happy xmas danny From "Steve Reddock" Fri Dec 15 05:26:58 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:26:58 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Re: Winge moan... *** Resending note of 14/12/95 18:33 > Wow. > You [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > margin > syndrome" > Bobeck OK, next time you come to Fareham I'll buy you a pint. Are you here often?? No? Shame :-) Regards, Det. Sgt. Flying Fox of the Yard (standing in for A.Nally-Retentive) That should keep the Python fans happy for a while! From Gary Mitchelson Fri Dec 15 07:46:23 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:46:23 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Movie Sighting -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Caught the end of Mission Impossible yesterday on FX and in this episode Jim was driving a blue series LR. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall ) Fri Dec 15 04:58:03 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:58:03 -0800 From: gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall ) Subject: 1987 (and up) Range Rovers December 14, 1995 Ben suggested I ask you about Range Rovers. I wrote the following to Ban a short while ago. Any insight you can give would be much appreciated! Glenn Glenn Thrall gthrall@ix.netcom.com ------------------------ I've been leaving business cards here and there, watching the advertisements, talking to Steve and others at BritPac with the clear understanding that I am a newbie at Land Rovers. It is possible an '87 Land Rover may be on the market (unfortunately through a local California (USA) car dealer) in the next few days. If the price is right, and the vehicle is "correct" I'd like to buy the machine. I have read in the UK and Mendo_Recce digests that the '87 is a robust Range Rover. What should I look for? What are the *very* approximate values? I'll also call AAA and my bank and ask for high and low blue book. I honest ly detest dealing with automobile dealers, although all of us must make a living. What is a ballpark price range for a clean, or not so clean, '87? I've noticed ASKING prices in the British Pacific Monthly Flyer in the $17K range for later models. I understand they sell for less. Any counsel would be greatly appreciated. I live in the Pasadena (actually City of San Gabriel, south of Pasadena), California, area. ANY owner of a Series vehicle or RR knows a whole lot more about the nature of the beast and what to look for than I do. YOU may think you don't have the experience ... but if the members of this list do not have some knowledge - who does? You have my sincere appreciation for anything you can contribute! Glenn Glenn Thrall gthrall@ix.netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------- From "Gerald" Fri Dec 15 08:08:09 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:08:09 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco radios before any sound comes on. Someone guessed this was to allow time for the aerial to rise, but the NAS cars don't offer the electric aerial which you can get in the U.K. On 14 Dec 95 at 16:59, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > Since I bought my 95 Discovery, the radio has always made a buzzing sound > immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just > recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, > but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 15 8:37:54 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:37:54 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90, 15K mile update Hi all, Some fellow LRO's have asked about problems if any, with the Defenders. My 95 D90 just turned 15K miles and went in for service 12/13/95. I was told at the dealer this costs $250. All are MINOR items under warranty so far: 1) - Left turn signal flashing @ twice normal speed. Cleaned/adj. connectors, & replaced bulbs. 2) - Cracking noise heard when returning steering wheel to center from full lock. Adj. wheel stop. 3) - Door check brackets rubbed a small whole in trim edge. Replace trim & adj. bracket. 4) - Rubber molding on safari cage cracked. Replaced cage. 5) - SMALL, & I mean small tear on the edge of the canvas top from back door. Adj. & tire carrier, & replaced the whole top! 6) - Passenger seat rattles. Replaced defective seat frame. 7) - Slight vibration in steering wheel @ 55-60 MPH. re-balanced tires. 8) - Small oil leak @ radiator coupling. I tightened coupling. 9) - Small antifreeze leak @ radiator hose. I tightened hose clamp. 10) - Getting water in cargo area. Water is coming in from the front inside corners of the wheel boxes, only while driving. Re-sealed between floor panels. 11) - Chattering when slowing to a stop. I adj. transmission brake. As you can see all of these were minor problems. I do a lot of off-roading & I expect to tighten a few things from time to time. O.K. now for the bad stuff!! The one major mechanical problem I've had so far has been the rear diff. I had Air Lockers & OME HD suspension installed at Rovers North, 11/3. I Noticed a grinding noise on the way home only when slowing down from 60MPH to exit the highway. That's why we didn't hear it during our test drive. RN swapped the ARB for another one, 11/10 but the noise persisted. RN installed another diff for me so I could get home, it's a 4.5 hour trip! RN found that my pinion height was too high on my original diff. Pinion is not touched with the ARB installation. Only backlash between ring & pinion needs to be set. No one really knows why I didn't have a problem before the ARB? RN rebuilt my original diff & came down to my house to do the swap, & all seemed fine, 11/17. I noticed a small leak coming from the pinion seal and replaced the seal 12/1. 12/12 I heard a MAJOR squealing noise from the rear diff as I started home from work. My 15K mile service at the dealer was scheduled for 12/13 anyhow, so I went straight there. My D90 has been there ever sence. It took the dealer a day to do the 15K service, & another day to do the warranty work. They pulled out my diff and sent it to RN. RN sent another diff down here so the dealer to get me back on the road. RN has installed many ARB's and never had this problem! My front locker has been perfect from day one! RN won't know what's going on until they can get a look at the evil, devil diff! Meanwhile I am stuck in driver hell with a crapy Toyota Corolla rental! That was really fun to drive home in during yesterdays 8" snowstorm! NOT! I couldn't even get up my driveway! O.K. I'm done. I guess I was reaching out for a little sympathy, or even better, anyone think they might be able to shed a light on what's wrong? Barnett, Getting upset, cranky & missing my rover! Childress From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 15 09:01:57 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 09:01:57 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Burlieth Land-Rover Club Well it seems we're on the verge of having a small club here. Burlieth, a small neighborhood outside of Georgetown in Washington DC, bears the distinction of being home to many Land-Rovers, of the Series variety as well as the all too common Rangies and Disco's. Well upon inspection of a Pastel Green SIII up the street, I noticed a can of DOT 3 brake fluid on the dashboard. I acted quckly in this emergency situation and left a long note detailing the downfalls of this "brake poison" and the fact that we are currently (read: still) rebuilding Will's hydraulics for the same reason. So I got a call from this chap, and we got together for a few test drives, followed by a few Black and Tans. We made a tour of all the other neighborhood Rovers, which include a SII(a)? 109 SW, a 109 Military (hasn't moved in at least a year) and another Pastel Green SIII 88. That makes a total of six Series vehicles in about a one mile radius. I've envisioned leaving some sort of note for the other folks, perhaps we can organize a parade or something, or large purchases of parts, or other things that a club might do. Or we can have a yearly "Birthday Party" wherein we test the viscosity of several different local blends and go tromping about the alleys and lawns of Georgetown. I believe our newest member is lurking about somewhere... Steve Reddock you are cordially invited to our first meeting, I'll take up your offer at one of our lacal establishments. Dave From LTC Larry Smith Fri Dec 15 8:57:31 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:57:31 EST (1357Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Majorette Range Rover Robin, Took the heir apparant to We B Toys last night for some ideas for Santa. While on a recon for him (yeah right ) I found a Majorette set. It has a five door Range Rover (front two operational) with a caravan. 1/36 scale. Operational suspension. Made in France. Price was $8.00USD. Sorry - they only had one, but will strafe the other local stores over the weekend if you are interested. Take care, Larry From Jonathan Hatch Fri Dec 15 09:36:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:07 -0500 From: Jonathan Hatch Subject: Disco and Lucas Regarding the radio buzzing just after turning it on in Disco's, I have noticed the same thing in my '95 Disco. It buzzes if you turn the radio on after turning the motor on, but if you simply leave the radio on after you turn the motor off, then the next time you start it up, the radio comes on without buzzing first. I'm not sure this is a solution, but it ends the buzzing. (Knowing the Lucas reputation for quality, I have tested this with all phases of the moon and it is consistent.) Jonathan Hatch pyramid@esslink.com Jonathan Hatch 860 379 6626 From Jonathan Hatch Fri Dec 15 09:37:21 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:37:21 -0500 From: Jonathan Hatch Subject: Floor Mats I would appreciate recommendations for U.S. sources of rubber/winter floor mats (front and rear) and rear cargo mats for a '95 Disco. Thanks. Jonathan Hatch pyramid@esslink.com From Mike Fredette~ Fri Dec 15 08:39:27 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:39:27 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? (fwd) I didn't ask for info, I was volunteering it to Jeremy, but here's a repost in case you missed it. > I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 > in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what [ truncated by lro-lite (was 8 lines)] > door lock or handle change or something like that? > Jeremy The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say. The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not. So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the unsightly notch left over for the low low bargain basement price of $84.00. Just buy the hard top and order the rivnuts from RN for a nickle or so each and build your own piece o plastic. I've had mine on for a year now, no leaks and much quieter than the soft top, a bit fragile though. I crunched it pretty good on a tree while screwing up the line on a nasty side slope. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 D90 67 88 RHD Phoenix Az, soon to be Portland again From Mr Ian Stuart Fri Dec 15 15:40:25 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:40:25 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question Hi all, Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the roof. My question is: Can I glue some carpet up there to cut out the condensation (and the noise at the same time :-)? Subsequent questions: Is one type of carpeting better than another? Is there a better alternative to carpeting? Will these things actually stop the condensation or will they just absorb the water and go smelly? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From "John C. White, III" Fri Dec 15 08:02:28 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:02:28 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Popular Science Oh, TeriAnn. Plushmobiles??? What is the current choice for Camel Trophy vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries? True, they had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon), but as you yourself point out, Discoveries are very capable off road, yet you deride LRNA for marketing only plushmobiles with the demise of the D90. They still import Discos, three versions no less, and, judging from another post, the D90 will be back. Plushmobiles. Hrmph! John At 13:47 13.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >In message <199512131835.NAA10666@butler.uk.stratus.com> Gary Mitchelson writes: >> In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new >; Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >driving. The side steps and front valance would hang up in no time. I asked >the dealer about this once. He said that they were told that the purchaser will >never take these cars off roading. They are ment to take people to ski lodges >in style. >While the Discos are very off road capable, they were designed to take only >small diameter tyres and have those plastic dohickies on the sides just aching >to be broken. >All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people have [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Fri Dec 15 11:06:36 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 11:06:36 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Disco's wading Look everyone, if I can't wade my Disco just as much as the D90, 110 or whatever, I'm going to be very mad! I hope it's true to its Rover blood in spite of having a few creature comforts :-) The manual says 22 inches without any trouble. I looked pretty closely at the Camel video and they have Disco's in water that is more than 22 inches. They also seem to have what looks like a cloth or plastic tube in the position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots. I have not seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco. Does it exist? I would certainly presume that all of the computer bits should be somehow able to be protected if you about to wade your vehicle, but from the recent comments on Range Rovers, I geuss the answer is no. Has anyone made up a spares kit list for a wading imparied Disco? I would certainly want to have spares enough to reboot/rebuild the computer foo if I was in a real remote place. Finally, I presume that if I can't wade it, I could at least winch it across more than 24 inches? (assuming an electric powered winch and a protected battery, and the engine was off) Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com 5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829 From Christopher Boese Fri Dec 15 08:27:53 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:27:53 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > Since I bought my 95 Discovery, the radio has always made a buzzing sound > immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just > recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, > but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. The Lucas electrical system has finally overcome its jealousy and reconciled itself to having to provide power to a Japanese Pioneer radio. Did Lucas ever make radios though? -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 15 11:56:36 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 11:56:36 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question Hi all, Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the roof. My question is: Can I glue some carpet up there to cut out the condensation (and the noise at the same time :-)? Subsequent questions: Is one type of carpeting better than another? Is there a better alternative to carpeting? Will these things actually stop the condensation or will they just absorb the water and go smelly? Well actually, (yep, you guessed it) there was a product made by Land-Rover for this very purpose. Many years ago, in the days of exceptionally leak prone Series vehicles, Land Rover engineers formed an unlikely bond with engineers in another field entirely. It seems that in the early Sixties, there were new breakthroughs occuring in the field of liquid absorption. Land Rover teamed up with researchers from Proctor and Gamble in the US, in order to help them test a material that was intended for use in their soon to be released line of modern day disposable diapers. Only available for about ten months in 1963, the Land-Rover- Ultra-Absorbent-Disposable-Headliner was an instant hit. It often held an entire rainy season's worth of water with nary a drip or a dribble. Sadly, Procter and Gamble still held the patent for the material and forced Land-Rover to either cough up a large percentage of their profits or drop it from their product line. Naturally, Land-Rover had no interest in sharing any of their money, and once stock ran out, the Disposable Headliner was no longer available. Occasionally you may find one that still has some absorption potential, if you look in the more arid regions of the world. Some shops may still have some old stock laying around, but be prepared to pay through the nose. I'm not sure of the original part number. I suppose a make shift version could be made at home if you're handy with a needle and thread. Cheers Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck From terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Fri Dec 15 18:05:22 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:05:22 +0100 From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Subject: Re: Disco's wading >position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots. I have not >seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco. >Does it exist? Oh yes. Mantec Services in England makes snorkel kits for Disco's and other Rovers. I don't have their number here at work, but you'll probably find an advertismet from them in any old issue of LRO and possibly LRW. TK From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 15 12:11:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:11:07 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Wading in a Range Rover >What does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? >Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy. Late this summer we were launching the boat at Lake Shasta in N. California, the water level was low and the launch ramp was out of the water. I had to back the Range Rover in until the rear lights were almost completely under water to get the boat off. When I looked down the water was about an inch below the side rub strip. (5" above the bottom of the door sills). Not a drop of water came in. Well now that it is winter the Range Rover is living up to its family reputation, "they all leak oil out and water in" I just bought new tires so I will be ready when the ski areas in Tahoe open. I decided to swap the new spare with an old tire and buy one less. When I took my spare out I found it was sitting in a small puddle of water. Any tips where the water is coming from, sealing up the rear wheel well? Thanks Kevin Kelly '89 Range Rover From Mike Fredette~ Fri Dec 15 10:29:31 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:31 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: wading of plushmobiles There has got to be a stop to all this talk of deep wading for you R/R and Disco types here in the US. The comparisons to the Camel Trophy vehicles are silly for the simple reason that they use Tdi engines. There are no engine managment chips to drown on these vehicles, indeed, no ignition system at all. At least not one that is dependent on electricity to work. As long as a diesel has air and fuel, it will run. The NAS D90 is ALSO not supposed to wade in more than 22 inches of water. The 94 NAS D90 has the ECU on the passenger side firewall , unless you have air conditioning (ha ha ha), in which case it has been relocated to the passenger side kick panel, right in front of the door. The 95's came "a/c ready" by relocating the ECU to under the passenger seat box. Niether place is particularly conducive to deep wading. I have a 94, and have been in water up to the door handles, with a corresponding amount on the inside. Got pictures even, with water just below the bottom of the radio box, and the car still running. But I took the precaution of sealing my ECU into a Ziploc freezer bag with rubber bands before I went swimming. Sort of a swimming cap to keep the hair dry kinda thing. I also turn off all other electrical equipment and remove the fanbelt, to keep water off the distributor ,replacing it when past the deep stuff. It works, but it's only a short term thing, how ofter do you wade deep water anyway, a couple times a year? Plus if you use proper technique, and get a good bow wave going at about 5-7 mph, you can wade up to about 30 in with not too much trouble, just don't stop fer gossake. But to expect diesel engine wading ability out of an EFI engine is asking for trouble. I do carry a spare ECU from a RR that was nabbed out of a wreck, works just fine. Also the question was asked about the turbo minding a dunking, shock cooling and all that. Because it's a diesel, the temps involved are not that high, and the turbo casing is plenty thick, Tdi's are just sweet little powerplants aren't they? Rgds Mike Fredette 94 D90 67 88" RHD Phoenix, Az. From vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Fri Dec 15 09:43:42 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:42 -0800 From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Subject: D90 Undercoating Removal The 94 D90, purchased used, is almost completely undercoated with a tough black material. Frame, wheel wells, everything is covered. Should the gunk be removed? If so, how do we go about it? Scrape, chemical,... ? How about a commercial body repair shop? Anyone successfully removed the stuff without damaging the galvanized frame? Thanks and warm regards, Ted Van Decar '94 D90 Slo-Mo VI Warm regards, Ted From Mike Fredette~ Fri Dec 15 10:44:58 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:44:58 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Re: Disco's wading >position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots. I have not >seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco. >Does it exist? Oh yes. Mantec Services in England makes snorkel kits for Disco's and other Rovers. I don't have their number here at work, but you'll probably find an advertismet from them in any old issue of LRO and possibly LRW. Mentec's number is (from the US anyway) 44 1203 395368 Ask for Sandra Young, she's very helpful, and has a wonderful sexy voice to boot. I bought a snorkel kit for the D90, one of their first for the NAS D90 actually. The product quality was great but there were no fitting instructions so a bit of trial and error was in order. The cost was L170.00 plus L45.85 for s/h. L215.85 which worked out to about $345.00 US. Kinda spendy. I don't know about NAS Disco or RR kit availability. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 D90 67 88" RHD Phoenix, Az. From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Fri Dec 15 10:54:34 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 10:54:34 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: RE: Subject: Safari Gard Sorry Mark, Looks like I got in just ahead of you. My D90 is in to Safari Gard tomorrow for 1.5 weeks worth of work. I've been to Gregs shop and was vary impressed. Most of his stuff is made to order and takes time. I do know Greg lost about a week/week and half to illness earlier this month. My D90 work was pushed back a week then but he is living up to his revised schedule. I'll let you know how things are going with my D90. I plan on picking it up the 28th and heading out to do the Mojave Rd. from Gregs. I'll have email access on the 1st again and send a report on how the stuff all works. I'm getting: 1) Winch mount bumper, my old X9000i installed in it 2) Rock Sliders 3) Front stearing gear skidplate 4) Front and rear diff protection plates 5) tie rod protection plates 6) rear ARB O (or U) seal repair 7) 3xHella 3000's 8) Dual Optimas 9) Bilstein shocks all around 10) Probably some work on CB and cell phone antenna mounts. I'm definitly in the cautiously optimistic camp that it will all be done on time. -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From "Tom Rowe" Fri Dec 15 12:33:13 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:13 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Carriage returns For peoples information, in most mailers there is somewhere you can set the line width. As Steve R. said, 60-70 characters is usually a safe bet. Then you don't have to add a CR. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Dec 15 10:24:12 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:24:12 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Wading in a Range Rover In message <199512151712.MAA14005@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: > Well now that it is winter the Range Rover is living up to its family ; reputation, "they all leak oil out and water in" I just bought new tires so > I will be ready when the ski areas in Tahoe open. I decided to swap the new ; spare with an old tire and buy one less. When I took my spare out I found it > was sitting in a small puddle of water. Any tips where the water is coming ; from, sealing up the rear wheel well? Thanks ; Drill a hole in the bottom of the spare tyre area to let the water out ;*) TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From Christopher Boese Fri Dec 15 10:30:42 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:30:42 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Where are the diesels? Mike Fredette asks: > Tdi's are just sweet little powerplants aren't they? And I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? It could save some of us considerable trouble with wading and with fuel consumption. Is it an emission thing? BTW, Mercedes no longer can sell diesels in California, even though they've developed a soot-reducing catalytic converter-style "afterburner." -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From russ burns Fri Dec 15 10:36:13 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:36:13 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open I think filling the tire with helium might do the trick.... Or a hot air balloon assist. At 11:27 AM 12/14/95 -0800, Ted VanDecar wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)] >Warm regards, >Ted Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 15 13:28:57 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:28:57 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, Bobeck, David R. wrote: > Only available for about ten months in 1963, the Land-Rover- > Ultra-Absorbent-Disposable-Headliner was an instant hit. Damn, and I have a 1964. Being a 109 sw I could have choped out sections and sold it to people on the list for a fortune since my rood liner is generally quite frozen this time of year (145cm of snow thus far, we got 155cm in all of 1994). [checking... double damn, the 88 is a '62! Foiled again!] > Some shops may still have some old stock laying around, but > be prepared to pay through the nose. I'm not sure of the original part > number. I suppose a make shift version could be made at home if you're > handy with a needle and thread. Dave, surely you jest. As you well know, phone Lanny at Rovers North and ask for the extra absorbant headliner option. They will have the part number as well as a good stock. Right now it should be on special, considering it is the rainy season in some of their off-shore markets. Canadian and American customers must wait until April and May for the special to be available here. Forget the needle and thread route. Go genuine, phone Lanny and wish him the best for the holiday seasons while you are on the phone... Rgds, From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Dec 15 10:19:53 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:19:53 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Popular Science In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" writes: > Oh, TeriAnn. Plushmobiles??? What is the current choice for Camel Trophy ; vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries? ; John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was because Rover insisted that they use them. Discos are cheaper for them to build & I understand that their margins are higher on Discos. They probably started supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that plushmobiles can go offroad too. With the kind of support the Camel Trophy cars get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus. Mind you it may be a year or more slower making it to the finish than the Discos. ; > True, they > had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or ; CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon), ; And I suspect special protection of the electronics...or are they powered by disels without all the electronics that are on the American spec car? ; > but as you yourself > point out, Discoveries are very capable off road, ; I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain. Mind you I'm not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover that doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without losing the ground effects baffeling and that low side step. ; > yet you deride LRNA for marketing only plushmobiles with > the demise of the D90. ; Well I think the D90 is the ultimate off road car marketed to civilians in any quantity. I would like to see them continue to be available to Americans who need even more off road capability than the very capable Discos have. ; ; > Plushmobiles. Hrmph! > John ; John you got a problem about plushmobiles? I don't. But im not interested in owning one ether. I have a series Land Rover and Triumph TR3 by choice. I don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Dec 15 10:36:06 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:36:06 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Popular Science >From: John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com] >Oh, TeriAnn. Plushmobiles??? What is the current choice for Camel Trophy >vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries? True, they >had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or >CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon), WHAT!?! No espresso machine! That's going way too far. I'm tearing up my application right now! :-) Boy, they aren't kidding when they say you have to be tough for the Camel Trophy. Driving for 2 weeks with no espresso? Gee, I don't think I'd last 2 days. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek. From Burwell2@aol.com Fri Dec 15 14:52:45 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:52:45 -0500 From: Burwell2@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest .. From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 15 15:03:19 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 15:03:19 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: D90 Undercoating Removal To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net The 94 D90, purchased used, is almost completely undercoated with a tough black material. Frame, wheel wells, everything is covered. Sounds good, as long as its not cheap stuff that traps water. Should the gunk be removed?See above Anyone successfully removed the stuff without damaging the galvanized frame? Galvy frame on a D90? I doubt it. Take another look. Unless the original frame got so bad over the course of a year that it was replaced already. Respectfully, Dave Bobeck SIII 88 "Green Car" Non-Galvanised Frame From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Fri Dec 15 12:21:21 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:21:21 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: D90 sighting Embarrasing as it is I saw a video on MTV today that had a D90 in it. The cool thing was that there were LOTS of other SUV's in it, Hummers, G-wagens, Jeeps, and one other RR. They were driving around in some city in parade fashion with the D90 leading the whole pack. I guess the director and musician/star in the video knew which one was best. ;) Oh, I'm photographing a few of the new D90 Station Wagons next week, and was wondering if anyone wants to post the photos to any of the WWW pages. Anything special anyone wants to see? And, for the west coasters, the D90 at the salvage yard sold for 1500 to the owner of said salvage yard. He has a farm and wants to fix it up and play. Humph. Maybe he can be talked out of it in a year or so. Later, Michael From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Fri Dec 15 15:27:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:27:07 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: SIIA lightweight for sale Dear All, A gentleman named Mark Gaier called today. He wanted to sell me his SIIA lightweight. He said it was in perfect shape with only 12,000 original miles. I have never seen the Rover, nor do I know the owner, but thought some of you may be interested. He is asking 10,000. dollars, and is in PA. Anyone interested should call him directly at 800.417.6627 Happy Holidays. Mike Smith, ECR From GElam30092@aol.com Fri Dec 15 15:29:55 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:29:55 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: The Mojave Desert Tour - Dec. 30-Jan.1 For those of you looking for adventure and friendship during the holiday period, there is a small group from CA (and one or two from AZ) headed out for a weekend adventure. The preliminary details are below. If you want additional details, please e-mail me directly at gelam30092@aol.com. Dates: Saturday Dec. 30 through Monday, Jan 1. Meeting in Needles, California (On the I-40 by the Arizona/California boarder). Needles has 3 exits, get off at the northern most one. (the first one if you are coming from the east.) (34d 51.6'N, 114d 45.0'W) as you come off the ramp from east bound there are gas stations to your left. We'll meet there. (Needles is a small town anyway). Get there before 10 a.m. on Saturday the 30th. (This exit might be named River Road) Description of area to be traveled: This will be about 120 miles of Mojave Desert travel. The only difficulty is with the sand near the end. These conditions could change in the event of rain. There are no facilities for camping other than what good old Mother Earth provides. You’ll have to provide your own shelter, food and drink although I may bring a box or two or fresh, tasty Arizona oranges for the group! At last count, 6-8 Land Rovers and their occupants were going so you won’t be alone! Alternate meeting places along the route will be provided for those who are chronologically challenged. If you want to drive over Friday , there are at least two of us camping in the desert that night. Again, e-mail for more information.. Gerry Elam Phoenix AZ gelam30092@aol.com From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Dec 15 12:44:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:44:07 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Disco's wading >The manual says 22 inches without any trouble. I looked pretty closely at >the Camel video and they have Disco's in water that is more than 22 inches. As mentioned on other e-mail along this thread, CT Discos are Diesel and much less vulnerable to the wading problems thier petrol cousins are. I believe (I'll have to go and measure this tonight) that the magic 20-22" comes from the height of the ECU above the ground. Granted were water to get in to just below your ECU, it would have already drowned the CD player (driver's side) and Audio Amp (pass side) which are under the seat. Though, contrary to what some naysayers might have you believe, a Discovery should still drive even without the CD or Radio working :-) >I would certainly presume that all of the computer bits should be somehow >able to be protected if you about to wade your vehicle, but from the recent [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >have spares enough to reboot/rebuild the computer foo if I was in a real >remote place. I'd think that to carry a spare ECU, ABS and whatever else is behind the dash would certainly be expensive. All you really need in the Discovery is your cell-phone in a zip-lok baggie so you can call "road-side recovery" after you've dunked it :-) (That is until the warranty runs out) >Finally, I presume that if I can't wade it, I could at least winch it >across more than 24 inches? (assuming an electric powered winch and a >protected battery, and the engine was off) That got me thinking, if you: a) disconnect the battery from the "electronics" but leave it connected to the winch for this example b) seal the air intake & exhaust (and ???) from water c) tow your Disco/D-90/ or what have you across the >24" water using the winch off of the battery or another vehicle/winch/block & tackle, etc. d) once on the other side let it dry out "THOUROUGHLY" and clean the connec tors to the ECU, etc (and what else???) e) un-waterproof the engine f) reconnect the battery shouldn't it be OK? Granted this would be a very time consuming operation but probably not as time consuming as waiting for the new ECU to be air-dropped in to your remote location! Knowing how long it takes for the computers , etc. to "dry-out" thouroughly could be tricky, depending on where you are. Looking at them, they look pretty well sealed, though. I was under the impression that the bulk of the ECU damage comes from the "confused" (i.e. inappropriate) electrical signals due to the connector getting wet, not the internal components getting wet. (no?) I wouldn't try this near salt water, though! And this would probably ruin the carpet. :-( I think I'll stick to those big rafts they used in the Camel Trophy if the water is that deep. Do you think they fit on the roof rack? :-) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ (still dry inside, so far...) From "Soren Vels Christensen" Fri Dec 15 21:59:17 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:59:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles In message Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:31 +22305823 (MST), ading for you R/R and Disco types here in the US. The comparisons > to the Camel Trophy vehicles are silly for the simple reason > that they use Tdi engines. There are no engine managment chips to drown on > these vehicles, indeed, no ignition system at all. At least not one True enough, about the TDi. But one trial in Mundo Maya showed that the Disco is not just an espresso machine with off road capabilities. When crossing a river, 20 participants were to bring two Discos over with ropes only. A picture in Bilmagasinet 11/95 (danish) shows the drill. On one car you can only see the front part of the roof rack and the "Camel Trophy" sign. I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all that. rgds sv/aurens (sIII) From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Dec 15 17:28:51 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:28:51 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: do you own this vehicle? I am trying to trace a Land Rover. Dont ask why! The vehicle is a series 2a I believe, most likely a 109 but possibly an 88" staion wagon. It has / had a safari roof to it. At one point it carried a North American licence plate "VAN 682". It is not known from which province / state it was registered in. Does anybody out there in NA know of this vehicle? Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Dec 15 16:02:37 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 16:02:37 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: aux heater in a series truck Dear Series owners: Have you tried to make an aux. heater in the box under the driver's seat ? Time to visit a junkyard for parts... Jan From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Dec 15 18:03:58 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:03:58 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Squeaky Disco Brakes I just got my Disco back from the dealer after taking it in for an oil change among other things. One of which was the periodic brake squeak. This must be very common since they handed me a 2-page story on squeky brakes. In condensed form: Cause: Squeak is from glazing that results from frequent "light" application of the brakes. Solution: Tromp on the brakes instead. (well the exact wording was to use a "firm application of the brakes") Wheee! _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ "hold on while I apply the brakes" From Wdcockey@aol.com Fri Dec 15 22:57:33 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:57:33 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Carb Icing & PCV systems? Carb icing has been around from the beginning based on the service bulletin below (From The Series One Club Newsletter, 9/95). The bulletin indicates crankcase ventilation can contribute to icing, which suggests that a malfunctioning PCV system may be a culprit. Combustion produces lots of H2O, and any blowby will add water vapor to the crankcase. The flow with PCV is supposed to be from the oil filler tube thru the PCV valve into the intake manifold (not thru carb), and from the air inlet to the rocker arm cover. If the PCV valve is blocked or removed (which can increase blowby), but the hose from the rocker arm cover to air intake is functioning, then the flow will reverse and the crankcase will vent thru the rocker arm cover and then thru carb. The humid vapors going through the car could contribute to icing. Per Trevor’s suggestion a switch from the oil-bath air cleaner to a pancake filter would eliminate this if the hose from the rocker arm cover to the air inlet was removed at the same time. The above is theoretical since I don’t have any personal experience, but checking the PCV system may be worthwhile. If your PCV valve, etc is removed or blocked, then you have a crankcase vent system similar to that described in the bulletin. Either get the PCV valve functioning (preferable), or vent the crankcase directly to atmosphere using the vented filler cap and rocker arm cap. A short-term fix is per the bulletin. Caveat: An accompanying note with the bulletin mentions that Rover switched to a “free breathing” system in mid-’51 which eliminated the hoses. Rover made a heated carb. optional on early SIIs before PCV, so the switch must not have been the sole solution. Internal Service Bulletin (Defect) No. 50021 January 1st, 1951 Models. 1948-51 LAND-ROVER Complaint. Loss of engine powe, with black smoke issuing from the exhaust pipe; sometimes the engine stops completely. The engine can be restarted if it left stationery for five minutes. Cause. Ice formation in the carburetter choke. Remedy. (a) Raise the under bonnet temperature by blanking-off part of the radiator grill panel, especially below the R.H. headlamp. By experimenting with baffles of varying size a cure can usually be effected. If trouble is still experienced: (b) Disconnect the top rocker cover and crankcase breather pipes at the carburreter intake elbow and allow them to breather to atmosphere: blank off the two holes in the elbow by means of short lengths of rubber tuing plank at one end with suitable plugs (i.e. bolts) and secured to the elbow with hose clips. Note 1. It is most important that the breather pipes are reconnected to the carburretter elbow when warmer conditions return. Note 2. Remedy (b) must not be used where a vehicle is operated under dusty conditions: acureFrom Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 16 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 16 Dec 95 09:58:57 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Plushmobiles In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. In fact some of the yuppies in my club are the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I suggest she get the facts. Yes they are diesels and that is one reason why they have the incredible wading abilities ( no electronics) As for the support they get on the event a competitor in the 94 event, Mac Barber, told me that aside from changing tires and cleaning fuel filters (very important on a diesel) the vehicle just kept going. He liked it so much that when he got back he bought one for himself. Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental insurance. I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job crossing Borneo that a Disco. Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love to have a coil-sprung, galvanized chassis 88 with a smuggled in Tdi or Isuzu 2.8 complete with snorkle so I could show some of the Georgia rednecks that 10 litre V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite. Obvioulsy I would take this vehicle some places the Disco does not go. Not because I don't think it would make it but becuase I have to drive it to work the next day. The disco has already surprised many of the rural residents of the GA hills with its ablility- Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it was built. Mark Ritter 94 Disco Yes, I do wave! From LAW142@aol.com Sat Dec 16 10:57:18 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:57:18 -0500 From: LAW142@aol.com Subject: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8 I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without having to pay a fortune. I'm also looking for a US based company that can build/make a roll cage for my SIIA SW with safari roof that will still allow me to put on a roof rack with rear ladder. Can any one help me? Karl Young II 69 Land Rover Series IIA 109 Station Wagon w/Safari Roof, RHD Austin, Texas From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:13:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:13:52 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Rangies With US V-8? In LRO Magazine I occasionally see blurbs about Rangies with Chevrolet 350 V-8 conversions, and I've heard of a Ford V-8 conversion too. Does anyone know anyone about these -- who makes the kits, whether they retain the RR transmission, etc.? Just curious. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Sat Dec 16 11:30:13 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:30:13 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: VIN/Chassis numbers Dear all, Another one for you. Just got some photos of a client's Rover we are going to do some work on. The weird thing, maybe not weird, but something I haven't seen is, the tag with the numbers on it is all in French. Is this what the tags looked like when sent to a French market? The Chassis number checks out to be LHD, export 109, as does the Rover, but I have not seen a French tag before. Any thoughts? Mike Smith, ECR From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote: >In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an >extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I >suggest she get the facts. >Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't >need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it >was built. Look, everyone, let's understand that the comments about "plushmobile" and the like are meant to be taken in jest. Don't take them seriously and get offended. Think of them as being accompanied by a dig in the ribs and a hearty chortle. Clearly people can like both Series vehicles and Rangies/Discos -- indeed, many on this list own both (and I aspire to.) But the Series drivers can poke fun at the yuppie Disco drivers wailing over espresso spills and noisy carphones, and the Disco owners can laugh at the Series owners wearing earplugs, freezing in the winter, and broiling in the summer. (There, now I've offended everyone.) It's all in fun, folks. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 09:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:31:41 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas Actually the '95s have a several second delay as well. Mine hasn't had the buzzing that Bob talks about though. Bob's radio may just be getting a broadcast from Radio Free Lucas. Cheers! John At 08:08 15.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com From lopezba@atnet.at Sat Dec 16 20:27:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:27:52 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Hardtop insulation David Bobeck wrote: >>Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the >>tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] >handy with a needle and thread. >Cheers >Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock in the UK, although I do not have their latest ad here at the moment. I seem to remember some name like PG Absorbent Headliner, so it may not be the original LR product but something made by Procter & Gamble. As far as I know these headliners are on back order though, and you may have to wait until the beginning of April. They also advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small valves for the four corners of the roof. These will allow the moisture that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle down on the outside of the LR without letting water in. Unfortunately they are not marked really well and installation is by trial and error unless you have very keen eyesight, since the only difference between the inside and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the outside. I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for. Their fax number is (UK) 1543 505 408. For a drier drive Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From KKelly6788@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:06:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:06:59 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood at times) during the Camel Trophy trials. I asked a couple of the guys from LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a few letters. Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change their mind. Kevin Kelly From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:49:06 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:49:06 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Vehicle ID Number system does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ?? the number I have has a total of 9 digits and is configured as such ... 2 numbers , one letter, 6 numbers. Anybody have a clue?? thanks Steve Bradke From ericz@cloud9.net Sat Dec 16 13:11:32 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:11:32 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Yuppies and other sources of unrest. Please, don't go crazy about the joking that goes around this list regarding Series Rovers versus the newer models. Most everything said here is in jest, or at very least in envy. What really counts is whether or not you appreciate the vehicle for what it is: the worlds toughest and most versatile off-road vehicle. Of course, there is an abundance of gadgetry on the newer vehicles (disco, RR, even Defender) but look at the market. We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other groups. As a result, the new models have the conveniences and niceties that such a market requires. This is not to say that people who buy newer rovers are in someway inferior. For the most part, people buying the newer rovers are just different people from series owners. All rover owners have the responsibility to make each other feel welcome based on the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle they're sitting in. There is a series owner in every disco owner and vice-versa. OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the rover community. Eric (a confirmed series owner who still waves to discos and RRs in hope) From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:12:42 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:42 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Trailers I still can't get over the guy who put 15 sheets of 3/4 particle board on th e rack. One good right hander and... I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story would be appreciated. Also wonder about the apparently PTO-driven trailer pictured in the literature. Anybody have one of these? what a hoot! From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:25:24 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:25:24 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: To those who are about to die,we salute you.. Parts that is. Thanks to all for their advice during the recent transmission crisis. (RN, expect a call from my mechanic!) Much to our chagrin, the gearbox expired. It is now on the table experiencing open heart surgery ($$$$) On the bright side, it will be ready for another 30 years of faithful service. "All my troubles are Rover" Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:38 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:38 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Popular Science And you know what else, Bob? They tell me the room service on the Camel Trophy is terrible. The Connaught Hotel has nothing to worry about. Sniff. John At 10:36 15.12.95 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>From: John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com] [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > \_/ \_/ N7UMU >with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:46 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:46 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles At 21:59 15.12.95 -0600, Soren Vels Christensen wrote: >I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush >pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all >that. These are the most minor of complaints, true, but Land Rover claims to build top quality vehicles in every regard. The off-road capabilities of Discoveries are only part of the equation. Land Rover has also seen fit to appoint NAS Discos with power steering, power anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, stereos with cassette players (optionally also CD players), leather upholstery, electric sunroofs (optionally), and carpeting. If Land Rover can't get these items right, then it shouldn't be in the plush business. As the saying goes, "A job worth doing is worth doing well." Cheers! John From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:28 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Popular Science Camel Trophy Discoveries are diesel so they aren't as electronically fragile as the V8i in NAS Discos, but I would venture to guess that an added feature of the diesel is that it has almost twice the gas mileage of the V8i. That's got to be especially important on a 1,000 mile trek where the nearest gas station is who knows where. Let's talk about plushness and its darker yuppie submessage, shall we? A Discovery can't clear the same rocks that a Series can. There are things I can do when I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans ("real" peoples clothes) that I can't do when I'm wearing a suit (yuppie garb) because suits are more confining. Nevertheless it's still my god-like physique in both. Many LROs have expounded on the off-road capabilities of the Discovery. It is a Land Rover from its logo to Lucas electricals. Oh yes, and no one forced me to buy a Discovery. I bought one of my own free will. Does that make me a yuppie? While I hate all that the label implies (selfishness. Conspicuous, graceless consumption. Snobbery), I will leave it to those who know me to decide whether or not the label fits. Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 10:19 15.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" >writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was >because Rover insisted that they use them. Discos are cheaper for them to build >& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos. They probably started >supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that >plushmobiles can go offroad too. With the kind of support the Camel Trophy cars >get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus. Mind you it may be a year or >more slower making it to the finish than the Discos. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] >I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they >still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain. Mind you I'm >not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover that >doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without losing >the ground effects baffeling and that low side step. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] >don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice. >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:31:04 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:31:04 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Nice lightweight for sale I just received my January 96 Land Rover World. in the classifieds at the back on page 125 is one of the nicest s3 lightweights in good condition for sale that I have seen for a while. The vehcile is complete with cam nets et al and the guy only wants POUNDS UK 2950!! I'll be checking my lottery ticket in the am .... Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:24:02 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:24:02 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News Just when you thought it was safe...... Matchbox Collectibles have come out with a new version of their series one fire truck with trailer in the "Works Fire Service" livery. The new version is diffreent only by the following:- Decal gone from door, Wheels now chromed intsead of red If you ask me it does not look as good as the original but I"ll be buying it anyway.... I found another one of the NASA 90 and trailers with the blue wheels today, again in a ZEllers store. If you would like to be included in a toy / model digest email me direct. Rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 16 17:14:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:14:28 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? In message <199512162007.PAA15069@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? > I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there > was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. I've heard 2 conflicting rumors about the 300 Tdi. The first is that LRNA got it past US DOT/EPA, but doesn't think that there is a market in the US for diesel engines. The other is that the engine is designed to meet European specs and that so far LRNA has been unable to get the engine through California Smog tests. Since, according to rumor, there is a huge EPA fine to bring a vehicle that cannot pass emmissions for all 50 states, LRNA gave up. I have yet to find anyone who can give a definite answer. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Russell Burns Sat Dec 16 17:21:47 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 17:21:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Disco's Had a chance last weekend to brake one of those new yuppie mobiles. I happen to be out on the left coast when my good friend Raj picked up his new disco. Green thing with leather seats, cd changer, dual sunroofs, built in expressio machine ect.. ect. The first plan was to go to holister hills and see the camel trials. But it seems that LRNA took over the park. All we could do is sit outside the gate and form a parade with some other Rover owners. After giving up on the trails, we headed south to another orv place Clear creek. We did manage to get the disco temporarly detained on a hill. I was explaining the benifits of having a shovel and other like tools as we ascended this steep hill. We got to a ripply section and Raj decided to slow down. With the loss of momentium we coulds not progress any futher up the hill. I explained to Raj that we needed to back down the hill. As there was a 4 foot deep rut on the passenger side I told him I would watch my side. Sticking my head out the window I was announcing the distance in feet between the rut and his new truck. We started at three feet from the rut, and proceded to back down the hill We then were 4 feet, and 5 feet from the rut when Raj slamed on the brakes and announced that he backed into a tree. So I got out and looked. The tree was the least of our worries. It seems that he was following a rut on the drivers side, and right after the "bush" it got progressively deeper. At we sat, the rear diff was scraping the ground. I had Raj get out of the car to take a look, and he promply started sliding down the hill. (it was almost too steep to walk up) I tried letting some air out of the tires for better traction, but I still could not get enought to drive up the hill and take a better cut. Well out came the jack, jacked up the rear tire. Dragged trees, rocks,small kids etc.. and filled in the rut. After chipping at the sides of the ruts with the jack handles, I think Raj realized the benifits of a shovel. After about 9 cu yards of fill I was able to back the yuppie mobile down the hill. Raj then explored some of the other trails in the park. A lot of trails had overhanging bush, and would scrape the Disco. I kept muttering that this was a Land-Rover polish job, but know one caught the humor.... Needless to say, when we were done there were a number of minor (major) scratches in the clear coat. Raj was quite upset about this kept muttering about ruining the truck with less than 500 mile on it. But actually I think he told his fiance that this was going to be her truck, and was afraid to face the wrath of the little women. At dinner I explained that if the Land-Rover polish did not suit him, you could buff out the clear coat and it would look like new. He clearly was an unbeliver, but his up comming marriage gave him little choice.Some how Sunday he found some one with a buffer who polished the Disco, allowing him to visit his fiance safely sunday nite. Talking to him latter that week, he said he was heading down to holister hills to do some more offroading. I replied "great, a few more times and you won,t even have ot bother with the wax and polish jobs...." Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 One of those damn yuppie types (mistakes can happen to the best of us) From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Dec 17 10:19:12 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 10:19:12 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Eternal Life List of Spares Dear fellow Series LR owners, just so we get a few pieces of mail not dealing with sqeaking steering wheels, espresso machines and CD changers: I assume we all want Eternal Life for our beloved vehicles. However, spares are getting rarer and more expensive - on my last visit to the UK somebody who was restoring an 80" - sorry, a 203 cm SI told me the going rate for 1 have is: Has anyone come up with a list of parts that will wear out over the years? Stocking up on these parts now should enable us to run our favourite cars another 15 to 20 years without paying that kind of prices. I am currently working on such a list for my late SI and would like some input from the collective wisdom of the net. Maybe this could be included in the Land-Rover homepage when it is finished. Any opinion, anybody? Please always add info about what kind of Series LR and what kind of engine your info applies to. Best wishes for the holidays Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Dec 17 10:41:28 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 10:41:28 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: vehicle ID numbers >does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ?? > the number I have has a total of 9 >digits and is configured as such ... 2 numbers , >one letter, 6 numbers. Anybody have a clue?? > thanks Steve Bradke Not sure I am on the right track... If you are talking chassis numbers, IMHO= there was no such ID. If it=B4s a 1964 vehicle, it=B4s a SIIA, and their chassis numbers had eight numbers and one letter suffix. The first three numbers indicated the model and spec and should be somewhere between 241 and= 354 in the case of a IIA. The number is on the right-hand front spring hanger or the little plate on the bulkhead. If you knew all this and I misunderstood the question, I hope you did not hurt yourself yawning. Have a nice time, everybody Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 17 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 17 Dec 95 08:53:31 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Salisbury for 88 I have been thinking of putting a Salisbury axle on the rear end of my 88. >From what I have been told, they were only made for the 109 so it is necessary to modify the axle to fit the 88. I think the Spring/Shock mounts need to be moved? And the drive shaft replaced/shortened? Has anyone out on the net done this. What is involved, and is really worth it. The reason I ask is that while I have only broken the half shaft in my Rover axle once, it is constantly in the back of my head and I tend to drive more concervatively off road because of it. I have been pondering installing an air locker, which would make me even more concerned about snapping shafts. Any advice, experience, thoughts? Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_======_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_%%%%%_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | %%###%% | | | | %%###%% | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#%@@@%#_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_________//_\\_________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 17-Dec-1995 From nadyne@bccom.com Sun Dec 17 09:45:30 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:45:30 -0500 From: nadyne@bccom.com Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles Couldn't agree more. I have recently discovered the "One Hundred Greatest Books" on cassette and would be enjoying it infinitely more if the cassette player worked properly. I can deal with the less than adequate heating/defrosting system and other lack of plushmobile amenities but a decent audio system should be inherent in a $35,000 vehicle. From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 17 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 17 Dec 95 09:55:05 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Wading in a Range Rover >What does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? >Does it fill up with water <... snip ...> ... My own experience with RR wading has been very positive (this is an '87 Efi). Deepest I went was a rather lengthy ditch filled up with very muddy water, and the mud strip, after coming out of the bog, stopped midway between lower door sill and door handle. Not a drop came through anywhere, only the fan had done a proper mess of the engine bay... This compares favourably with my old 109 where water intrusion is instant - but thankfully it flows out again just as fast as it came in :-) Of course you'd have to have the door seals in proper condition, the doors seated properly, no rust cracks or holes in your footwells or floorboards... The drain plugs in the floor would eventually let water seep in, but only very slowly, and probably not while you stay in motion. But if they are missing altogether then of course you'd have water spouting in freely. WRT water gathering under the spare tire, I've also witnessed this, and my theory is that it's condensation on the rubber and inside the treads that eventually trickles down and fills up the mould. After all the spare is well packed away and covered up and doesn't get any ventilation back there. BTW Happy Hanukkah to those concerned! Stefan From ericz@cloud9.net Sun Dec 17 07:16:59 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 07:16:59 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Salisbury Rear in 88" I wouldn't recommend putting a Salisbury rear in an 88". The salisbury rear is BIG and heavy, a serious overkill for an 88". It robs the vehicle of a noticeable amount of power, making for even more sluggish cruising. In addition, it reduces your ground clearance under the diffs. If you're going to put a locker in, the general wisdom is to put it up front (with locking hubs) on a part-time 4x4, less wear on the diffs that way. If you're still concerned about half shafts, I believe there are some heavy duty ones on the market. Others on the list are probably more informed about that. Regards, Eric From Dmvt Sun Dec 17 18:00:50 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:00:50 +-100 From: Dmvt Subject: 88 diesel I'm going to look at an 88'' 1979 series III LR tomorrow evening, I would appreciate all tips on where and what to check before buying the car. Also does the series III 2.5 D have any known factory defects? The owner says the engine has been overhauled recently and has run 7500 km since then. Please send replies to my personal e-mail adress (I'm getting IRO in digest form...) Bye, Dennis van Turnhout - Taz@pi.net Hey, let me wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year! (Especialy to those at BEP) My personal page : http://www.pi.net/~dmvt From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 17 09:16:18 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:16:18 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles Oh yeah?! Well, TeriAnn's mom drives a Jeep! So there! John At 08:31 16.12.95 -0800, John Y. Liu wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote: >>In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an >>extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. > [ truncated by lro-lite (was 9 lines)] >>Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] >in the summer. >(There, now I've offended everyone.) It's all in fun, folks. From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 17 09:49:12 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:49:12 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Yuppies and other sources of unrest. Eric sez.... >.......... We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in >being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other >groups......... - Speaking as a member of the lunatic fringe..... I've run into a few people locally who have Discoveries and Range Rovers. The majority of them look at me like I'm some sort of demon-possessed maniac (you don't think that fact that I bear a passing resemblence to Charles Manson has anything to do with it, do you?? Naaaaaa) Talking to these people I get the impression that they couldn't care a bit about the history or capabilities of the vehicle they are driving. I have talked to a few (at lenght) who were genuinely interested in all the aspects of Land Rovers. One day I stopped alongside a Range Rover at a traffic light. The woman in the passenger's seat rolled down her window and said "Now there's a real Land Rover!" My reply was "So is yours". OK.. so maybe there is some hope for some of these yuppies... >OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing >has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the >rover community. - Ah.... This bit goes on every six months or so on this list. They grumble, we grumble, we grumble about the stuff they grumble about, etc, etc ad nauseum. Who gives a flying squirrel! We all own Land Rovers so lets start poking fun at Jeeps and TOYotas. Grumble,grumble Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 17 09:49:12 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:49:12 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Trailers William Adams asks... >I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a >utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story >would be appreciated. - If you're driving a short wheelbase truck, stick with a small trailer. That goes for any short wheelbase truck. A friend of mine was hauling a double-axel trailer with a VW bus on it behind his 88. He was coming down a hill at a moderate speed and the trailer started swaying. It got to the point where he couldn't control it and everything wound up on it's side in a field. No-one got hurt. A long wheelbase truck wouldn't have had that problem. I have a short utility trailer with a bed slightly larger than the box on an 88. The most weight I've had on it was a 2.25 engine and four 16" wheels with tires. That towed fine. I've also flat towed other Land Rovers with no problems - as long as the road is pretty smooth. Rough roads tend to shift the load side-to-side which then pushes the tow vehicle around. If you're looking at one of the low trailers with the small wheels for light duty work you shouldn't have any problems. My trailer is a home-made job. It has 14" wheels on a Model-A front axel and uses leaf springs slightly smaller than the ones on the Land Rover. It will take a lot of weight, but it bounces around a bit. Not the best thing in the world, but it was cheap and if I go to a pintle hitch I can tow it off road. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From dcrow@bev.net (David Crow) Sun Dec 17 13:03:07 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 13:03:07 +0500 From: dcrow@bev.net (David Crow) Subject: Range Rover parts for sale Hello All! I have a 1988 Range Rover (as well as a 1971 SIIA). I rebuilt it from after the PO T-boned a Mercedes with it several winters ago. The insurance company was nice enough to pay for several components I didn't need or want to re-install on the vehicle. Therefore, I am offering the following parts for sale: 1) Bearmach front lamp guards, the cast-aluminum guards that wrap around to cover the side markers. Still in the original box and packing. $225, includes shipping. 2) Air conditioning condenser for 1988 RR. Still in the original shipping crate and liner. I want to say the dealer price was around $400; $400 or best offer takes it - I'll cover the shipping as well. Please contact me direct to keep the Digest quiet. Happy holidays! David Crow (540) 231-3158 (office) (540) 268-2399 (home) dcrow@bev.net (e-mail direct) 1971 SIIA 1988 Range Rover I wave, too! From Simon Barclay Mon Dec 18 07:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 07:29:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Movie Sighting We had James Bond 'You Only Live Twice' on the box over the weekend and the second scene has the Hong Kong police arriving in a Series 1.... Simon Barclay Sydney Australia ---------- From Simon Barclay Mon Dec 18 07:43:00 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 07:43:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles Another alternative, one use by guys in the RR club here in NSW, is to relocate the ECU into an overhead console. By the time the water level reaches here you have other, much larger problems to be worried about!!! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia ---------- From rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Sun Dec 17 16:56:07 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 16:56:07 -0500 From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Subject: Rock SLider correction and Ignition problem CORRECTION. First a quick correction on the Safari Gard rock slider prices I mentioned a couple of days ago. Seems $695 gets you the air tank rock sliders that hold compressed air to help you air up. Regular sliders are about $475. Thanks to Brandi for clearing that up. PROBLEM. I had an odd problem with the ignition on my Disco this weekend. After a quick stop, I went to insert the ignition key and no luck. About 1/2 inch in it seemed to strike a solid metal piece. Jiggled and shook to no avail. Tried the gear selector which produced an audible click in the column but no help. Roadside recovery hooked me up with LRMW, who also suggested some more jiggling and wiggling to get the key in. Said it was something they had never heard of. Back to the truck, where some more >vigorous< wiggling and jiggling pursued. Slipped the bugger in another 1/2 inch and got stuck. Still more vigorous wiggling and jiggling until, finally, Success! The key went in and the truck fired up no problem. Encountered the problem one other time during the day, but since it has been fine. (As an odd aside, Roadside recovery lady told me the standard solution to this problem was jumping the car. I could not pursuade her otherwise, despite repeatedly telling her I thought this was ridiculous. It was, afterall, in her manual.) Didn't someone else on the list report a similar problem a while back? What was the solution? Although it seems to be fine now, I'd reckon some lubricant in the ignition would help. Suggestions regarding what to try would be appreciated. (No need for series owners to suggest their preferred 90wt 'solution for what ails you.') -Bob Virzi -------------- Robert Virzi rvirzi@gte.com From TONY YATES Mon Dec 18 07:35:52 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 07:35:52 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8 On Sat, 16 Dec 1995 LAW142@aol.com wrote: > I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without > having to pay a fortune. I'm also looking for a US based company that can I would have thought it would be pretty easy to make a snorkle out of a few bits of pipe, that's all it is really. Anyone had any experience with a snorkle on a V8? Does it affect the running of the motor at all? In my experience with vacuum pumps, the efficiency of a pump is a function of the length and cross section of the pipework leading to the pump. On the snob/yuppie subject - I used to own a '79 Range Rover, when I bought it my friends started calling me a yuppie, even when I pointed out that it was several years older and many $1000's cheaper than their shiny Jap hatches. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| '85 110 V8 (Pamela) ----- ----- ===================================================================== From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Dec 17 18:58:32 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:58:32 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Eternal Life List of Spares Predicting long term future availability of parts can be tricky. The parts situation for Ford Model A's (last built in '31) is now considerably better than it was 30 years ago. Why? With NOS exhausted and the long term interest in the cars established, suppliers have tooled up to produce formerly unavailable parts. For example, original style carburettors are now reproduced after being unavailable for years. My prediction is that some early LR parts will go through cycles of unavailablity, and then be reproduced, but at a higher price. Example: Brake/clutch fluid reservoir once again available. Commonality with popular British cars will help. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Dec 17 18:42:37 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 18:42:37 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Discovery spare tyre gizmo When the Discovery was sold in the UK the plastic disk that covers the centre of the spare on the rear door had the Discovery name and the then familiar mountain logo moulded into it aswell. When the Discovery came to North America that was from what I know dropped in favour of the Land Rover name in black block capital decals. There was only one Discovery here in Canada that had what I would call the UK spec disk. Am I right this was the norm? Comments please. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Dec 17 17:54:56 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 17:54:56 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Eternal Life List of Spares Peter Hirsh writes: :I assume we all want Eternal Life for our beloved vehicles.... :Has anyone come up with a list of parts that will wear out over the years? : :I am currently working on such a list for my late SI and would like some :input from the collective wisdom of the net. Maybe this could be included :in the Land-Rover homepage when it is finished. Any opinion, anybody? Not to spark the 'genuine' debate, but... Mike Hoskins has started a similar list of Series Aftermarket Parts to keep these vehicles going at reduced prices and higher availablity, for the US at least (see the URL below). An argument can be made that if too much third party competition produces non-genuine parts, the genuine manufacturers would be forced out of the market --a self defeating effort for purists. Also, stock piling parts is like any other investment. Is your money better off playing the stock market or speculating on Land Rover parts futures. What about the artifical market pressures brought to bear on the parts business if every Land Rover owner suddenly took all his spare cash to buy parts to hoard for the future --doesn't this in itself drive up prices? Tricky business, this! Holiday Cheer!! \ / --*-- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From GElam30092@aol.com Sun Dec 17 21:05:06 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 21:05:06 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Tdi Vs. V8 It appears that people on each side of the Atlantic wants what the other side has. In one of the LRW issues, the magazine mentions that we'll never get the Tdi and they'll never get the V8. I assume it has something to do with gas prices, taxes on larger engines, etc? Funny how it all work out though.... Gerry E. Phx, AZ From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Dec 17 18:24:28 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:24:28 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Granada-Dakar '96 on the WWW Fellow Roverites, For your viewing pleasure, a link has been added to the Rover URL below for the Total Granada-Dakar '96 off-roadrace, which begins December 30, 1995. The WWW link has a history of the race year by year, nifty road maps with descriptions of each leg, and will have updated race reports. Over 300 vehicles are expected to participate. On the downside, the link buldges with advertisements, and Tread Lightly! policies are, well... non-existant =:o Holiday Cheer!! \ / --*-- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Dec 18 12:57:33 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:57:33 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8 > Anyone had any experience with a snorkle on a V8? Does it affect the running > of the motor at all? In my experience with vacuum pumps, the efficiency of > a pump is a function of the length and cross section of the pipework leading > to the pump. Sounds fair to me. The snorkel on my stage 1 is made from 80mm (PVC?)sewer pipe, with about 4" of 3" ID anodised pipe stuffed into the ends to permit use of standard 3" ducting. I dont know how much it affects the breathing, but it is a lot larger than the silly little 60mm-ish pipe across the back of the motor. The 110 version of this is the same part number but a much bigger diameter. I have a 10" serviguage fitted near the filter outlet and have never seen it tripped. I tried to get a reading with a vac. guage at the serviguage port one day, didnt drop below 1 - 1.5"! (sounds too good to be true and I suspect that the "silly little pipe" is a source of restriction) I do notice a slight performance drop at high revs when I use the (80-310? CFM) 6" pre-cleaner rather than the "normal" 3" ram head. Still I only use the pre-cleaner in dusty conditions, and speed is generally not a priority. This rather un-conventional snorkel has been in use for 8 years, has aquired plenty of scratches, and cost very little. It works for me. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From ASFCO@aol.com Sun Dec 17 22:25:24 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 22:25:24 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Dixon Kenner Dixon; would you kindly contact me with your correct e-mail address. Have tried dkenner@emrl.eml.ca a couple times with messages returned as unknown. Thanks Steve From David Place Sun Dec 17 22:26:39 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 22:26:39 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Carburetor Icing! What to do? Carburetor icing can be prevented or at the very least helped a lot by putting about a cup of metholhydrate (sp?) in the tank each time you fill up. This lowers the freezing point and it also is hygoscopic to water I undrstand so you don't get water up to the carb. We use it here where temps can get to -50 windchill and for really tough starting, we spray a bit in the carb or better yet starting fluid and away she goes. It sounds like you park in a heated place or maybe you live where humidity is high and you get icing that way. No problem however, the methol will solve it. Dave VE4PN From David Place Sun Dec 17 22:47:21 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 22:47:21 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: spare parts Today I spent a few hours fixing my 88 LR. I found that the Horizon I stripped for parts was a wonderful source or goodies for the 88. For example, the overflow bottle is a slim model that fits perfectly between the alternator and the wing. The overflow inlet is in the right place for our copper rads. The insulation that was under the hood was just right to put under the Land Rover hood to dampen the engine bay noise. Best of all the door rubbers work great on the LR. A short piece used on the Horizon hood goes at the bottom of the rear safari door like it was made for it. To put the engine dampening pad in, I used large washers and pop rivets to hold it in place as well as an aluminum strip from side to side over the pad also pop riveted onto the edge of the good. It makes a great difference to the noise levels. I found that the door rubber if cut to the height of the sliding windows in the rear made a great betweem the window seal for cold air. You just pound it onto the edge of the window with a rubber hammer just like the original. It expands just enough to let you slide the window but still get a good seal. All this doesn't detract from the look of the LR, in fact it looks factory. The bulb sockets are so superior to the original LR, I might just go around and replace the sockets with these nylon ones. The bulb locks in much more securly than the old Lucas types. I have my eye on the heater assembly. I think I can take the heat exchanger out of its box and make an aux. heater for the front area that will fit on the seat box just behing the main shifter. The two pipes will go into the seat box and the fan can be in the area where you look down onto the transmission. It should not take any cab room and it should really warm up the front. A nice speaker grill of black metal to match the black interior should finish it off. Dave VE4PN From "Gerald" Sat Dec 16 22:41:01 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:41:01 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Squeaky Disco Brakes My 96 Disco had the brake squeek campaign dine a few weeks ago. It squeeks much less than it did before and the pitch of the squeek is lower. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Sun Dec 17 20:14:25 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 20:14:25 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: wading of plushmobiles sv/aurens wrote: True enough, about the TDi. But one trial in Mundo Maya showed that the Disco is not just an espresso machine with off road capabilities. When crossing a river, 20 participants were to bring two Discos over with ropes only. A picture in Bilmagasinet 11/95 (danish) shows the drill. On one car you can only see the front part of the roof rack and the "Camel Trophy" sign. This was one of the special tasks. They split into two teams and attempted to see who could get the Discos across first. The lines for both Discos fouled. Both teams decided that the task was just a bunch of B*** S*** and refused to complete the task. The oranaizers informed teams that they had to recover the vehicles. So under the leadership of U.S. team member Jim Sweat, the entire group recovered first one Disco, then the other. So the picture is of a somewhat contrived event. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Burwell2@aol.com Sun Dec 17 23:44:30 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 23:44:30 -0500 From: Burwell2@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In a message dated 95-12-10 04:45:04 EST, you write: >R I find this digest to be very interesting, but since I am at my parents house infrequently, I would rather be on the mailing list only. The digest has overwhelmed my poor mother- she drives a Nissan Pathfinder. S if it is possible, I might like to be on the list, but not get the digest every day. Cheers. From "geoffrey.m.halaburt" 17 95 Dec 1921 Date: 17 Dec 95 21:26:20 From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt" Subject: D90 Tires / Steel Wheels What are folks opinions on the tire "choices" for NAS D-90's: BFG All-Terrains vs. BFG Mud-Terrains? I've got a '94 D-90 that came with Muds, and I have no complaints. I've ordered a '95 D-90 SW and the All-T's are standard, with Mud's optional. I know the Mud's are louder on-road, but are they overall better off-road? What about tread life -- so far (16k miles) the Muds are holding up great. Another unfortunate result of yuppifying (g,d&r) the D-90's has been to make the alloy wheels standard. My dealer tells me that not only are the steels not really a "delete option", they would have to be ordered IN ADDITION to the standard alloys, leaving me some very expensive alloy decoration for my garage. What is the "preferred" way of getting high quality, appropriate (looks and size/offset) white/limestone steel wheels for a D-90? -Geoff (geoffrey.m.halaburt@ac.com) From Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Mon Dec 18 08:47:46 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 08:47:46 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: What happend to the online list???? Hi all, Can anybody tell what happend to the online lro-list? last week I got a message from the Major that I had been shifted to the digest. Resubscribtion was unsucessful. I don't like this digest, since I usually read just a part of the listmails, which is much easyer if they don't come in big bunch. Please email me directly for I don't have the time to read through the whole digest in the moment. Many Thanks, Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From "Steve Reddock" Mon Dec 18 04:47:41 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 04:47:41 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: LRO Submissions Police Hi all, the last two digests made it to me as notes, not files! Hooray!! Whatever happened has worked, thank you. The delights of living in mainframe land are that the mail reader decides you have a file if it is wider than a note. Some systems are just too flexible. Regards Sgt A. Nally-Retentive LRO submissions Police. Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Mon Dec 18 12:04 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 12:04 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Series IIA power steering (again) I don't believe it! Does _nobody_ know the answer, or don't you people like me? :-) So I'll continue making a nuisance of myself, to whit : What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the SO to be able to drive the beast too. Please remember that I'm on the other side of the world, I can't just buy a kit and stick it in. I would probably have to cannabalise something to find the correct steering relay or whatever. Thanks Wouter -- Wouter de Waal ZS1KE GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W N+++>++ Argo 505 / FT200 !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*) '72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine Perseverance my son, '6? Series IIA SW - factory fitted Lucas immobiliser it's a Land/ /Rover "All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Mon Dec 18 08:30:20 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 08:30:20 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: Series IIA power steering (again) As a newbie in the Rover Force, I'm not sure if I am qualified to make technical suggestions, however an open forum is just that so... It seems to me a difficult and expensive undertaking to install power steering in a series truck as it involves redesigning the entire linkage. In addition that's one more belt for the engine to drive (and to shred) as well as plumbing that is probably going to give trouble in the future. I would advise that you follow the KISS(see below) principle when going about a modification of this sort. The Rover engineers probably installed the Armstrong steering for a reason-it won't fail on you when just when you need it the most. (Keep It Simple,Stupid) From Mark Murphy Mon Dec 18 06:56:44 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 06:56:44 -0700 From: Mark Murphy Subject: High Flow Air Filter For the Discovery When I tried to order a K&N air filter for my 1995 Discovery, RN told me that the filter didn't fit and that K&N was re-engineering it. Well, I checked back in October and still no air filter. In frustration, I started looking for information on other air filters, I found this: > Here's the info I have on air filter performance. Tests were done using > SAE J726C Test Method 5-best --> 1-worst [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > KotLS KotLE DotD #0003 I'm not really a chemist, I'm just one of > 900SS K100RS 501 CAMEL them motorsickle sonsabitches. __=o&o>__ Now, I haven't done any research on Ed Hackett or the Desert Research Institute so I can't vouch for the validity of the above data. Instead, I found an AMSOIL dealer on the web and asked about their air filter. Figured I could buy one and run my own test. After correcting a typo in the AMSOIL catalog, we found they didn't make an air filter for the Discovery either. However, the dealer mentioned that with the dimensions, an air filter could probably be made. I went one better and sent them a Land Rover air filter (ESR 1445). Well, after two months of email and smail, I received the official letter from AMSOIL - the part number is S1694, cost is $37.95 plus shipping of $3.50 for a total or $41.25 (2-4 weeks delivery for this special order air filter). I have ordered an air filter and will post the results on its fit/finish, any differences in size/shape and any changes to power/gas milage. I ordered mine through Bob Cameron (AMSOIL dealer 397110) at nmau21a@prodigy.com. Bob answered all my questions, organized the correct technical people at the AMSOIL manufacturing plant (to whom I shipped the Land Rover air filter) who then made the correct filter. Actually, I don't know if the S1694 air filter is a newly designed filter or an exact match with a filter initially designed for another vehicle. Mark Murphy mmurphy@evolving.com From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 18 08:09:36 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 08:09:36 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Salisbury Rear in 88" ericz@cloud9.net writes: Snip > If you're going to put a locker in, the general wisdom is to put it up front > (with locking hubs) on a part-time 4x4, less wear on the diffs that way. Snip Hmmm, I'd have to dissagree here. I don't know what "general wisdom" is being refered to, but all I've heard, read and that logic tells me is just the opposite. With a locker in the front you have at least two problems, depending on the type. With the automatic (Detroit style) locker you could get your vehicle thrown to the side when it engages, which could be dangerous in some off road situations. And on road too, for that matter, if you forget and leave your hubs engaged. With the manual full locker (ARB type) it's hard to steer with the locker engaged. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Karl Kurz Mon Dec 18 09:14:01 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Kurz Subject: Re: Trailers and trailering > Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:49:12 -0500 > From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > >utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story > >would be appreciated. I've been hauling an ex-US military 1/4 ton trailer with my 88 British military for several years now and couldn't be happier with it. Toss in compleate kitchen etc and head into the Maine woods regularly. A couple of nice features are the 16" wheels., pintle hitch(can't be borrowed easily) and the water tight integrity, also a spare aluminium Rover top fits perfectly for top seal, just hauled a half cord of long ash out to the camp yesterday in some snow and ice. The generator fits nice when remods and improvements need to be done. Also there is somewhat of a glut on the market as these units were used behind jeeps that are now obsolete, the HUM-V uses a different unit, so as a result, the local knacker sells them for $300-$400 and you can get them for much less if you go to the auctions. The only thing that I would do to improve it would be to modify the hubs to accept Rover rims so that I would have two emergengy spares not using up valuable space. Karl Kurz Washington County Maine From Dixon Kenner Mon Dec 18 09:29:08 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:29:08 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixon Kenner On Sun, 17 Dec 1995 ASFCO@aol.com wrote: > Dixon; would you kindly contact me with your correct e-mail address. > Have tried dkenner@emrl.eml.ca a couple times with messages returned as > unknown. Thanks Steve dkenner@emr1.emr.ca if you like to type, just dkenner@emr.ca if you want to save a few keystrokes, though this may change to forestry.ca in the future (changed sectors within Natural Resources Canada, though am unsure if I am a tree hugger or a clear cutter... They will tell me... :-) Now, where are those logging road maps... :-)) From Karl Kurz Mon Dec 18 09:39:45 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:39:45 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Kurz Subject: Re: Trailers and trailering (fwd) From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 18 10:26:15 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:26:15 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Another movie, another LR My wife dragged me to see Sabrina this weekend.. she like Harrison Ford. Spotted an older Range Rover in the Paris scene and Ford drove a new 4.0 in the Martha Vineyards scene. The movie was fair. One disappointing part was Angie Dickinson. She looks amazing like Tammie Faye Baker now. Gerry E. Phx.AZ From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Mon Dec 18 11:07:43 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:07:43 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy Dear all, In a email yesterday someone said, we all own Rovers, lets poke fun at Jeeps or Toyotas. Well I have a good one that some of you may or may not know. Did you know that the first ever Camel Trophy was run in Jeeps. Yup, that's right the things we all love to hate. They found that the vehicles could not take to abuse of a true off road adventure, so they had to switch to Land Rover products. Bring that fact up next time someone tries to say his Jeep is better than your Rover, be it a series I or a Disco! Mike Smith, ECR From Mike Rooth Mon Dec 18 16:15:25 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 16:15:25 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Trailers and trailering Never had any trouble towing horse boxes with my 88". Diesel,to boot.Double axle trailers,with mechanical overrun brakes(which rarely work,in my experience). Even had to load two horses in a shopping precinct after dark,once.The lorry carrying them broke down on the return journey from a show.The two girls got them out and rode them forward,while I went and borrowed a trailer,and as it happened met them at this shopping precinct.There was so much clobber and people in the back of the Land Rover,the jockeys had to ride with the horses in the front of the trailer.It was OK,though.The horses didnt mind. Also fetched a couple of Mk1 Ford Cortinas for a guy who lived across the road.Double axled flatbed trailer this time.First one was OK,but the second bastard was an almost complete wreck,wheels binding,steering arms broken,and as full as ever it could stick with spare parts.Loading *that* caused a lot of inventive language. Unloading it increased the vocabulary even more.The towing was the easy bit. FWIW I reckon the 88" is a good tool for towing.Your rules in the US may be different,though,and you tend to go farther afield,I would think. Our approach(locally,anyway) is to hitch it up,and if it wont move,its a bit too heavy.Dont tell the rozzers though........ Cheers Mike Rooth From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 18 95 Dec EST 1911 Date: 18 Dec 95 11:53:56 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Salisbury / Lockers / HD Half Shafts Tom Rowe writes: >>ericz@cloud9.net writes: Snip > If you're going to put a locker in, the general wisdom is to put it up front > (with locking hubs) on a part-time 4x4, less wear on the diffs that way. Snip Hmmm, I'd have to dissagree here. I don't know what "general wisdom" is being refered to, but all I've heard, read and that logic tells me is just the opposite. << Tom, I have to agree with you. In fact, if the ARB installation is done correctly for two axles, the front will not engage unless the rear has been activated. I think it would be better to put a LSD on the front than a locker, unless you use the airlocker. The nice thing about the air Lockers is that they are quickly and easily activated, and if you have them on both axles they are independent of each other. So while it is true that steering would be a B**** with a front diff locked, you could switch it off for sharp turns and then back on when your through. Besides, I don't see a airlocker as something that stays on very long, mainly to get you through a tough section, or out of a jam, and then turn it off. I think that I have decided against the Salisbury. Yesterday I compared a 109 axle with the 88. The 109 springs ride outboard of the frame rails, while the 88 springs go under the frame. It would be necessary to cut the spring mounts and reweld them a couple inches over. Even with a plasma cutter I think I might have a little trouble getting them off moved and in the correct location without losing some height. Besides the underside of the axle is a little different between the two vehicles which might require further modifications. Then there is the drive shaft which needs to be shortened. I think it would be wiser just to but in some heavy duty half shafts, and hope for the best. So this brings me to my question of the day. Does anyone have any experience with heavy duty aftermarket half shafts. I know that British Northwest sells some, but Charles has not been high on anyones list lately. I seem to recall that there are several different types, but I don't remember the differences between them. Are these unbreakable? Has anyone damaged something else in the drivetrain because of stronger shafts? As always, your help is very appreciated. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_======_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_%%%%%_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | %%###%% | | | | %%###%% | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#%@@@%#_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_________//_\\_________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 18-Dec-1995 From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 18 12:15:36 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:15:36 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Front receiver-mounted bracket for lights? Ive wanted to add an additional set of lights to the front of my Discovery but have hesitated due to the fact that I really need some flexibility. I really need two different sets of lights depending on the activity. Would a receiver mounted T-bar-type device work? I already have a front receiver and Warn winch setup.. If I have a square device that comes out of the receiver an inch or two, goes up and possibly back a bit, topped off by a T-bar, I could mount the lights on it. Then, I would only need one light switch with a quick disconnect for each set of lights mounted on two different brackets. I could interchange one for the other depending on my needs. Or, I could leave them off completely. Am I missing something? Seems extremely simple.... What do you folks think? Or is there already something on the market? Gerry E. Phx, AZ From Stephen Thomas Mon Dec 18 08:28:57 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 08:28:57 -0500 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Disco Audio System Gentle Readers: >I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco >radios before any sound comes on. Someone guessed this was to allow >time for the aerial to rise, Actually, I'd probably just give Land Rover (or maybe that's Pioneer) credit for good audio design. The turn-on delay is in the amplifier, not the radio head unit. This is considered good practice as it prevents the amplifier from playing (potentially speaker-damaging) transients that the head unit may generate when it is first turned on. (Now, if you're hearing buzzing during this turn-on delay, you do have a minor problem. If it bugs you, a good audio shop ought to be able to track down the noise source and quiet it for you.) At the risk of offending the sensibilities of the Series owners out there, let me also take a shot a defending LR against those that have complained that the volume is too low on the Disco stereo. Good audio design suggests that the signal level from the head unit to the amplifier be as high as practical. That way much of the noise present in an auto environment (which is typically at a level independent of the signal) is drowned out by the signal. And what controls the signal level from the head unit to the amp? The volume control. So, the best setup is one in which the listener has to turn the volume control up nearly all the way. I'd personally judge the Disco setup to be about perfect in this respect, but it is a subjective standard. If you like your music at hearing-loss-inducing levels, or if you frequently play poorer quality cassettes (pre-recorded cassettes generally fall under this category), the volume may be too low. I haven't poked around with the Disco's amplifier, but most amps include a level or sensitivity control. If one exists, you should be able to adjust it to accommodate your musical tastes and/or sources. (Maybe someone with a shop manual can check this out?) --Stephen >but the NAS cars don't offer the >electric aerial which you can get in the U.K. ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (770) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (770) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Mon Dec 18 12:31:14 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 12:31:14 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: US v8's in Rangies and my new motor!! Hi all: 1. to answer someone's question, the kits are available for GM sb from Marks, both for older LT95 4-sp and the 5-sp. Pretty sure engine-auto and auto- x-fer case (LT85 only, of course) kits are also available. I've also seen sb Ford kits, Ford is a little narrower than the GM and the 3.5l. These kits usually include a flywheel adaptor and new motor mounts. Not sure about Chevys, but Ford sb's are externally balanced- make sure your parts match :) I looked into these, but at $400-500 + headaches, I decided to stick with the Rover, as they can be built to 305 cid with cheap US parts. 2. As I am rebuilding my anemic 91 hp dual-worn-CD carbed v8, I found a nice rebuilt Olds 215, Isky cam, 10.5:1 CR, GM distributor, 4bbl mani and Carter carb. Included are 300 allum. heads and a crank for the Rover motor rebuild. Will pick it up tonight, before the snow storm hits East Cost US. Daryl from OZ found this motor for me in Philly (how'bout that!) - thanks, bud! Regards Jan From "Jon Moody (BME)" Mon Dec 18 12:52:00 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:52:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Jon Moody (BME)" Subject: unsubscribing.... unsubscribe From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 18 12:52:43 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:52:43 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Salisbury / Lockers / HD Half Shafts Rob Dennis writes: > Tom, > I have to agree with you. In fact, if the ARB installation is done > correctly for two axles, the front will not engage unless the rear has been > activated. I think it would be better to put a LSD on the front than a locker, > unless you use the airlocker. Actually Rob, the LSD (wow, shades of the '60's) is what I was referring to (as well as detroit locker type diffs) about the chance of the vehicle being suddenly pulled to one side. I think the safe route is totally open diff in the front, or an ARB type diff. As for heavy duty half shafts, DAP (when it was owned by Al) sold a manually locking diff (from AU I think) that included heavy duty half shafts. Not to insult, but I wonder how much driving technique has to do with broken shafts. In all my years of driving LR's (well, only a little over 20) I've only broken one. That includes moving some very heavy loads both on & off-road. I do try to be careful in slippery condidtions not to hit solid ground with wheels spinning. Perhaps others can comment on this. Am I just really lucky and now that I've typed this I'll be breaking several a year? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From cs@crl.com Mon Dec 18 11:21:45 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:21:45 +0000 From: cs@crl.com Subject: Re: Series IIA power steering (again) Wouter de Waal writes: :I don't believe it! Does _nobody_ know the answer, or don't you people like :me? :-) Well, we're probably just a little jealous of your late Spring weather :) Up here we are just beginning to deal with the wet and sticky stuff, and we're also a bit preoccupied with the Holidays upon us.... NAH!! You're right, we DON'T like you! ;) :What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering :to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the :SO to be able to drive the beast too. I don't know about adding PS to a Series Land Rover, never heard of anyone doing it. However, for a Mercedes Unimog 404 of 50's and 60's vintage (a bear to drive off-road without power steering :) the method is to attach the power steering pump relay to the engine block and change the fan belt or get a multiple fan belt pulley to drive the pump. Next, attach the steering sensors to the steering column, requires opening the stationary outside shaft to attach the unit too and feel the inside shaft for movement. Then replace the steering damper (shock absorber) with the hydraulic ram that effects the steering. Brackets may have to be made to properly transfer the forces without breaking off. If the system fails, you are back to manual steering =:O For the Unimog 404, a '70 Ford pickup provides the proper parts, total cost US$200. Hope this helps, your mileage may vary %) If you get a system to work, let me know, as we have a '65 IIA. Holiday Cheers!! Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Dec 18 11:31:55 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:31:55 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles In message <199512161502.KAA14861@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mark Ritter writes: ; Wheweee! I've been Singed to the bone! ; ; > In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as ; an > extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in > comfort. ; NEVER once did I ever say that the Disco was not a very capable off road Land Rover. Even when I coined the term plushmobile I asserted that I believe them to be very capable off road cars. I have been on multiple runs with Discos and have seen what they are capable of. The only times I have seen their owner's balk at a situation was when the obstical was too tall for their ground clearence or when the danger of bending a panel was high. ; I think that are very capable cars but personally would have liked to see them designed to have greater gound clearence. This isn't a factor in many off road situations, but it is on a number of runs I have been on over the years. ; > I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. ; Golly your touchy. I prefer plushmobile myself. Compaired to the series/ Defenders the Discos are very plush. I didn't make a value judgement about plush cars. Many people look at plushness as a status symbol. I generally think of it as something more to maintain/ go wrong. But I tend to be a minimalist in some things. I don't personally put a value rating on plushness levels of a car. I thought plushmobile was a catchy phrase. ; If you put a negative value on the level of plushness a car has its your problem. ; > In fact some of the yuppies in my club are > the most ardent series owners. ; So it goes to show that plushness or lack of it is not a yuppie attribute. ; Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's ; I didn't lambast Camel Trophy Discos. I speculated that the reason that Discos are used in the Camel Trophy events is because the company that was providing the free cars for the event wanted to use the event as a way advertising that Discos are capable off road cars. I suspect the Rover marketing people weren't sure that the new Disco was going to be accepted, and thought they needed something that they could point to. I suspect that this is why Defenders got replaced by Discos on the Camel Trophy events. Not because Rover thought that the Disco was a better off road car than a Defender. ; Of course I also mentioned that I think the level of vehical support for the event is extreamly high. The ford Tarus comment was an inside joke from a West coast Land Rover run made last spring in Mendoceno. Unfortunatly the attempt at humor was lost on people not familure with that run. My appologies for that one. ; > Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental > insurance. ; I guess yuppie has become a touchy fighting word among the Disco crowd. ; > I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job > crossing Borneo that a Disco. ; Maybe, but if someone were willing to fund the attempt and provide a high level of logistical support I would love to give it a try. I bet I could also find a Disco owner volunteer who would love to accompany me. ; Letsee, I have the advantage of fewer parts to break. The disadvantage of much older parts more apt to break. My 109 is shod with 265/70 16 B F Goodrich Mud Terrains that gives me more ground clearence than a Disco has. I think I can wade deeper than a US spec Disco and recover faster from being submerged too deep. The Disco has an advantage in articulation and turning radius (109s take a couple of city blocks to turn). The Disco has the advantage in engine power (109 2-1/4 L petrol is 0 to 60 same day) but at slow speeds the 109 holds her own. The 109 has the advantage in carrying capacity, and mine has capacity for 44 gallons of petrol, probably outranging the Disco. I can comfortably sleep inside my 109 two door. Of course with air conditioning, a CD player, and the softer suspension the Disco driver will be more refreshed and comfortable (But I have a refrigerator in mine for cold brews as needed) ; It might be an interesting run. Please let me know if you find a backer to cover the financial end of things ; > Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When > finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > litre > V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite. ; Sounds like a coil sprung European spec D90 fits your description better than a 88. I personally think the D90s are the best of the breed for short duration runs or long duration runs that have support cars. ; > Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't > need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when > it > was built. ; Gosh I'm in for it. I like the term plushmobile but please understand I don't mean it as a negitive word. ; The people who should be flaming me are the owners of the new Range Rovers not a Disco jocky. I never end up with what I expect > Mark Ritter > 94 Disco > Yes, I do wave! > was built. sigh TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Mon Dec 18 14:42:53 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:42:53 -0500 (EST) From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Subject: Range Rover Climate Control Enlighten me, oh sage list, in the mysteries of the Range Rover climate control system. I am having a problem with ambient temperature (i.e. cold) air coming in through the dash vents on my '89. I get cool(ish) air out of the screen vents, too, especially the one to the immediate left of the binnacle. I was under the impression that this duct system was for A/C only. A/C is definitely not on. The fresh air vent lever on the left of the control panel has little or no effect on the cold draft. Fan speed does not, either, but vehicle speed certainly does. Closing the louvers helps some, but cold air still leaks out. Obviously I have a vent stuck open up under there somewhere, but my shop manual does not shed any light on where to start looking. Incidently, this same problem is obviously a contributor to my seemingly half hearted A/C cooling this past summer. The mixing effect of the warm ambient air flowing in and the refrigerated A/C air masked the leak. Has anybody done any exploring into the terra incognita of the inner dash. Seems as I remember a thread a while back on RR misting problems. Any of those guys still around? A million thanks. Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 88 1989 RR P.S. to Mark Talbot - Spliced the turn switch into my housing - works great! Thanks. BT From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 11:53:13 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:53:13 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Salisbury / Lockers / HD Half Shafts In message <199512181657.LAA01642@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > So this brings me to my question of the day. Does anyone have any > experience with heavy duty aftermarket half shafts. I know that British [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > the differences between them. Are these unbreakable? Has anyone damaged > something else in the drivetrain because of stronger shafts? About a month ago this was discussed on the mendo list. So Granville doesn't have to retype his post, I'll forward it off. (If it isn't obvious, BP=British Pacific) --------begin forward------------------------- From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Dec 18 11:54:47 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:54:47 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles In message <199512171715.MAA00507@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" writes: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Oh yeah?! Well, TeriAnn's mom drives a Jeep! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > So there! > John Well actually its an AMC Eagle last time i looked. I rode in a jeep once. Does that count? TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Mon Dec 18 13:57:03 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:57:03 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Shocks & springs for Series Hi all, In anticipation of my frame replacement project... What kind are the "genuine" shocks, as sold in the RN catalog for Series vehicles? I need new shocks, but I can't afford the RS5000s that I really want. I'm looking for something to get me through for a year or two of normal road driving and light off-road. Also, a couple months ago there was a talk of a spring company out east that made Rover springs. I'm going to need a rear pair for my 88". Who were they, anybody use them? Anyone have a decent pair or rear springs that'd be worth the investment in shipping? I hate to do all this on the cheap, but I need to get running again, then I can go back and upgrade those components as they fail - I'm on a pretty tight budget right now. Thanks, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "now in challenging kit form!" From Fred Ellsworth Mon Dec 18 14:56:03 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:56:03 -0500 From: Fred Ellsworth Subject: Series of questions II Hi all, My first series of questions got nixed (at least for me) by one of the majodomo mixups, so here we go again: 1) Just how much is too much to grind Series brake drums? The manual says .003" over for the 10" drums on my 88", but they are several times over that already and need some serious grinding to get a decent surface once again. None of the shops around here will regrind them knowing they are so far over. One guy said they'd "probably" be ok if I could find someone who'd do it- but he recommended against it. Everyone else just said to get new ones. I seek truth. 2) I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain speeds which makes me think an alignment is in order. Is this something any old cheapo tire place can do for $29.95 or is there something special about my '71 SIIA 88" that screams for more money? 3) Does anyone know the part number of a good, inexpensive replacement for the steering dampener shock on series vehicles? 4) There was a thread awhile back on vaccuum gauges & how valuable they were in diagnosing problems. There's a hole in my dash and a gauge in my toolbox just itchin for a pleasant union but- does the vaccuum line from the gauge splice into the dist. vaccuum advance line or the brake booster vaccuum line? Opinion has been running 50-50, please make up my mind for me... Thanks in advance for any info,\ Fred '71 IIA 88" From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 12:00:29 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:00:29 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Salisbury / Lockers / HD Half Shafts Tom Rowe wrote: > Not to insult, but I wonder how much driving technique has to do with > broken shafts. In all my years of driving LR's (well, only a little over 20) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Perhaps others can comment on this. Am I just really lucky and now > that I've typed this I'll be breaking several a year? Breaking of half shafts is related to how agressively one drives a Rover. Personally I have broken 4 in the last 4 years. (Two came with the Rover, so I don't if it was preexisting problem and two were aftermarket). All broke mostly cleanly (some were double breaks and I needed to take the diff apart to get the broken bit out). I am an agressive driver, but I try to minimize wheel spin. In this timespan I have put 70,000 miles on my Rover and it is my daily driver. YMMV. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Dec 18 12:05:06 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:05:06 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles sv/aurens wrote: True enough, about the TDi. But one trial in Mundo Maya showed that the Disco is not just an espresso machine with off road capabilities. When crossing a river, 20 participants were to bring two Discos over with ropes only. A picture in Bilmagasinet 11/95 (danish) shows the drill. On one car you can only see the front part of the roof rack and the "Camel Trophy" sign. Benjamin Smith wrote: This was one of the special tasks. They split into two teams and attempted to see who could get the Discos across first. The lines for both Discos fouled. Both teams decided that the task was just a bunch of B*** S*** and refused to complete the task. The oranaizers informed teams that they had to recover the vehicles. So under the leadership of U.S. team member Jim Sweat, the entire group recovered first one Disco, then the other. Then I added: This was shown, briefly in the video. During the trip across the river it looked like the current caught the LR's and washed them off a relatively shallow crossing into some DEEP (i.e. roof-deep) water. Finally, once they dragged the dunked rovers onto the other shore (with water pouring from the doors!) They looked pretty ragged, i.e. I don't think they picked the best models of the trip for this special task. Now if you think a Disco's heavy empty imagine what it must be when it's full of water! I wouldn't consider this a viable demonstration of the Disco's wading ability rather a demonstration of the skills and abilities of the CT participants. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From DEBROWN@pabvmsys.SRP.GOV Mon Dec 18 13:20:47 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 13:20:47 MST From: DEBROWN@pabvmsys.SRP.GOV Subject: LR is a LR. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: LR is a LR. Mark's comment "A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it was built." as well as the sentiment that we don't need the "mine vs. yours" attitudes on this list is well worth heeding! Please! They're ALL incredible machines, each with it's own advantages and limitations! I wish I could afford one or ALL models! Dave (peacemaker) Brown And yes, I push my "plushmobile" to it's limits! (Well, haven't found the "limits" yet, but not afraid to try new things!) #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right Someday... a D90. Sigh... #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Mon Dec 18 12:39:47 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:39:47 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: Goodyear G90 tires I left a message at the Goodyear Tire Co. WWW site regarding G90 tires. Here is the message they sent me. A very fast response too! 12/18/95 Re your recent internet request regarding the G90 Military Tire. This product line is not available through Goodyear Canada. In fact, I have not even been able to confirm a valid part number for the product. In the 7.50 R 16 size, we have two tires available, the Wrangler AT (Product Code # 740-356-399) and the Wrangler HT (Product Code # 744-238-847). Both of these products are available at the Vancouver warehouse, and both tires are 8 ply rated. I hope that this is helpful. Regards, Graeme Crawford, Technical Assistance Representative, Goodyear Customer Assistance Centre (Canada). USGTRZJT@ibmmail.com Just thought I'd let people know seeing as ther was an artical on the tire in LRO(W). They look like a good tire. 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Dec 18 12:44:37 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:44:37 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Series of questions II Fred Ellsworth writes: :2) I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain :speeds which makes me think an alignment is in order. Is this something :any old cheapo tire place can do for $29.95 or is there something special :about my '71 SIIA 88" that screams for more money? After tweaking your alignment, try a new steering dampener. My wobble at 55+ mph on a '72 Series III went away after putting in new Rancho shocks and dampener. Someone said earlier that Rancho is having a sale right now, 4 shocks for $99! :3) Does anyone know the part number of a good, inexpensive replacement for :the steering dampener shock on series vehicles? The Rancho part numbers are on the Rover Connection page under Series Aftermarket Parts, the URL is http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html which also lists other goodies :) For the Web impaired--- Shock Absorber 88" Front RTC-4230 Gabriel G53494, Rancho* RS5163 Shock Absorber 88" Rear RTC-4232 Gabriel G53299, Rancho RS5169 HD Shock Absorber 88" Front RTC-4234 Gabriel G63494 HD Shock Absorber 88" Rear RTC-4235 Gabriel G63299 Shock Absorber 109" Front RTC-4483 Rancho RS5119(was RS5164) Shock Absorber 109" Rear RTC-4442 Rancho RS5117 HD Shock Absorber 109" Front RTC-4484 Rancho RS5164 HD Shock Absorber 109" Rear RTC-4236 Rancho RS5157 Steering Stabilizer STC-786 Rancho RS5402 *Rancho Customer Service 310-630-0700 Holiday Cheer!! \ / --*-- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 18 15:00:54 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:00:54 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: LR is a LR. Wasn't it Shakespeare who said something to the effect, "A Land Rover by any other name would leak as much."? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Mon Dec 18 13:15:04 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:15:04 -0800 From: maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Kevin Kelly writes: > I will be writing a full article on the event with photos for an upcoming > issue of the Land Rover Owner Association (LROA) Aluminum Workhorse Magazine. Kevin, thanks for the background on '96 US team final four. Can you tell me about Aluminum Workhorse Magazine? From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Mon Dec 18 14:20:20 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:20:20 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: Resent topics I just have to get in my two cents here. Robert Dennis asks about puting a Salisbury in a 88; you do have to move the spring pads in to narrow the spread, the propshaft does need to be shortend a small amount, it does make a good conversion if you already have an exta Salisbury kicking around. However there are other options that may work better for you, ie Robert MacNamara's(not sure of spelling) manual locking diffs come with stronger half shafts and cost about $600 or $700 Canadian. William Adams asks about trailering with a series Rover; I once pulled a two axled trailer for about 400km on highway 1 in Alberta(mostly flat or rolling hills). When weighed at a truck scale it came in at 7500 pounds and the 1965 88 topped 3500 pounds. Total of 11 000 pounds, the 88 was a little squiraly and the average speed was about 60km. About a week latter both rear half shafts failed pulling away from a drive way. From then on I have used my 109 with a 2.5L petrol and a Salisbury for this kind of work. Its safer and cheaper. About the great Disco debate, I like them but would not use one like in the CT. Also several people were asking about the roof rack loads on the CT Discos, The CT Discos have a modified rear suspention to aid them, don't try it on a standard model. I would not use my 109 like in the CT either (all sides happy?). Has anyone put a Detroit or Lockright locker in the rear of a 109? How did it work out? How about any other types of locker? Andrew Howton 82 109 2door 67 109 NADA (non runner) 8? 110 2door (under constuction) From ericz@cloud9.net Mon Dec 18 13:49:54 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:49:54 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Where oh where to put those lockers! Tom recommends that the locker be put on the rear: I wholeheartedly agree if you want to put an automatic locker in. Having a LSD lock up on the front could be very interesting, to say the least. If, however, you want to put a manual locker in (which I wrongly assumed was the intended addition) I would still consider puting it on the front. My logic is much the same as that of putting chains on the front axle first. If you can only put one locker in a vehicle it would seem logical to put it where its going to have the most control. On the front, not only can you get traction going straight ahead but on a turn as well. True, steering might be a little more difficult when traction comes back, but you can just unlock the diff at that point. Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing but until my financial resources improve (Santa, are you listening?) I won't be able to try a locker on either diff! Regards, Eric From 18 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 18 Dec 95 16:53:41 EST From: Subject: More sightings on TV In the last few days an advert for a Canon cam corder has been playing two shots include a very dusty looking sand colored 90 soft top with either hood sticks still up or a roll cage- these are truly fleeting glimpses perhaps just a few seconds or two each but its there!!!!! regards chris browne brit in boston 95 disco, From Dixon Kenner Mon Dec 18 17:18:35 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:18:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, gary madden wrote: > Kevin, thanks for the background on '96 US team final four. Can you tell > me about Aluminum Workhorse Magazine? The Aluminium Workhorse is the quarterly newsletter of the Land Rover Owners Association, a huge (by NA standards, 600 members approx) west coast USA based club. A list of all of the know Land Rover clubs can be found in the FAQ at: http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/ Where web sites exist for clubs, there are links to those clubs. The listings include addresses, size, membership information, newsletter size and frequency, profile. Rgds, From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Mon Dec 18 17:31:05 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:31:05 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for Series I don't know about aftermarket shocks. I'm sure there are some out there that fit for $14.99 a piece. The Rover engineers spec'ed a shock that will perform the chores you have described. Trust them. They design and make cars that last for decades. As for your spring woes, check your local yellow pages under 'springs' and you'll find local merchants more than happy to recondition your Rover springs maybe for a lot less than new, if you offer to take them for a drive. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Dec 18 15:01:49 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:01:49 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for Series Tim Harincar writes: :What kind are the "genuine" shocks, as sold in the RN catalog for Series :vehicles? I need new shocks, but I can't afford the RS5000s that I really :want. I'm looking for something to get me through for a year or two of normal :road driving and light off-road. Someone posted a message saying Rancho 5000's are on sale at 4/$99!! Shock Absorber 88" Front RTC-4230 Gabriel G53494, Rancho* RS5163 Shock Absorber 88" Rear RTC-4232 Gabriel G53299, Rancho RS5169 HD Shock Absorber 88" Front RTC-4234 Gabriel G63494 HD Shock Absorber 88" Rear RTC-4235 Gabriel G63299 Shock Absorber 109" Front RTC-4483 Rancho RS5119(was RS5164) Shock Absorber 109" Rear RTC-4442 Rancho RS5117 HD Shock Absorber 109" Front RTC-4484 Rancho RS5164 HD Shock Absorber 109" Rear RTC-4236 Rancho RS5157 Steering Stabilizer STC-786 Rancho RS5402 *Rancho Customer Service 310-630-0700 :Also, a couple months ago there was a talk of a spring company out east that :made Rover springs. I'm going to need a rear pair for my 88". Who were they, :anybody use them? Anyone have a decent pair or rear springs that'd be worth :the investment in shipping? Probably was Young's Springs, as listed in the Land Rover Aftermarket Parts list on WWW URL : http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html brought to you by Mike Hoskins of Mid-America Rover, Kansas City, MO Tel/Fax 816-763-3797 For the Web impaired: _________________________ High Performance Products Distributor Mallory 273-2001. Mechanical dual point (replaces ERC-6986) Carburetor Weber 32/35 DGV-5A, Available at VW Parts Stores Intake Manifold Pierce, Tel. 408-842-6667 or 800-874-3728 Exhaust Header Clifford Performance 50-0416, Tel. 909-734-3310 Exhaust System Stainless Steel Muffler Corp. Tel. 905-792-7770, 905-792-3673 Fax Clutch Centerforce, 714-898-4477 (matched to '74 Vega) Leaf Spring Young's Springs, Inc., Rutland VT Tel. 802-773-7237 Engine Adaptor Scotty's Foreign Car Service, Concord CA 510-686-2255 Engine Adaptor Advance Adapters Inc., Paso Robles CA Tel. 805-238-7000 Transmission Mid-America Rover, Kansas City, MO Tel/Fax 816-763-3797 Winch Warn Industries, 800-522-9276 :I hate to do all this on the cheap, but I need to get running again, then I :can go back and upgrade those components as they fail - I'm on a pretty tight :budget right now. Aren't we all?:) Holiday Cheer!! \ / --*-- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Dec 18 18:12:45 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:12:45 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy >In a email yesterday someone said, we all own Rovers, lets poke fun at >Jeeps or Toyotas. Why do we LR owners need to poke fun at anybody? Do you think Jeep owners trade LR tales? Let's stick to discussing LRs. In fact I'm tired of the Disco/RR vs. Series discussions. David Cockey 60 SII SW 60 SII PU 80% 59 SII SW From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Dec 18 18:29:45 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:29:45 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Disco pricing I now find myself in the market for a new Discovery. The rice rocket is laid up with a supposed head gasket/coolant leak (though the cylinder pressure is up and level on all) while the Rover is having major surgery -rear frame crossmember. I've had the replacement piece for over two years; I just didn't want to hassle with it right now. Anyway, when you get a wife/kid/dogs, you need more room than an 88 can provide.... Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these vehicles so I can have a little wiggle room in dealing with these jokers? Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Gerald" Mon Dec 18 18:56:51 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:56:51 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Front receiver Where does a front receiver on a Disco attach on the vessel? Where do I go to get one mounted? Do air bag considerations affect this? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 16:21:03 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:21:03 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy In message <199512182312.SAA02125@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Why do we LR owners need to poke fun at anybody? Do you think Jeep owners > trade LR tales? Let's stick to discussing LRs. In fact I'm tired of the > Disco/RR vs. Series discussions. Well now that Mike Fredette is back on the list, is it time for the biannual Defender vs. Series debate between Mike and Dixon? (And whoever gets suck in) That always proves to be amusing to read. No matter what happens Rover folks seem to like to debate/poke fun at just about anything. Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Mon Dec 18 18:19:09 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:19:09 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Re: D90SW Whoever it was who posted the original note about the D90 SW, I second all the comments and agree that the interior certainly looks nice. I particularly liked the rear door. As my 109 has a trailer hitch, I am unable to use the rear tire carrier. On the D90 the tire is high and a little off-center to the right (toward the hinges), which BTW are SII. Also the interior trim of the rear door was really neat too. There was a one-piece plastic-textury covering (deciepher that if you can) that covered the motor for the rear wiper and integrated with the inside handle of the rear door. Oh, I also noticed on the D110 (which was parked in the same lot) the little sticker on the rear door that says it can only be locked/unlocked from the outside. Didn't notice if that was the case on the D90. So, now I'm thinking that a 110/90 rear door is where it's at. Any ideas? The rear defogger would be nice here in rain-land (Portland). I also wondered about the interior roll cage and thought that they should have had a full cage like on the soft-tops that extended toward the rear. The cage is pretty nice though and installed looks to be a tight quiet fit. The headliner and rear trim pieces for the side windows in back was also nice. Are these available aftermarket or from land rover? I noticed that the rear jump-seats had little stickers that said NAS. Does that stand for North American Spec.? They didn't look any different from the NAS D110 rear seats, or for that matter any of the rear seats I'd seen in D90's in LRO. Curious. One thing about the seats tho, they were in grey tweed all around, not that vinyl stuff as on the soft tops. Oh, and in the rear bed there is a fitted piece of carpet that goes up the side and covers the top of the wheel wells. Nice. Kind of a grey indoor-outdoor thing, but not like astro-turf. It made me think the rear section noise would be very quiet. Now I'm wondering about getting that piece as well. The best accessory was a cardboard box that was flat and closed with a gold foil seal that said "Gold Standard Welcome" or some pish-posh like that. I am assuming that's where the courtesy Camel Trophy book and off-road driving video go. Hope that's really what those shiny D90's will be used for. I photographed two D90's today. One was Conniston Green and the other was the Marine Blue. The Green one was in the garage having some last minute details looked after. I didn't ask, no one was working on it when I was shooting. I got plenty of interior and detail shots of the roll bar, headliner, carpet, rear door and tire mounting. I wanted to really go at it and document it fully, but since it was already paid for by a customer I figured that it was a bad idea. However I did get a thorough look at it and hope to have photos developed by Christmas. The Blue one was outside and had just returned from a detail job in preperation for the buyer to pick it up. I shot it in the lot among lots of Disco's and a few obligatory shots of my 109 (and one w/me in it too) :) So, I'll be glad to supply pics to which ever WWW site wants them. As long as I can link to it when I get my page up. To interested parties, just let me know. The photos are better than writing about it, but you know what they say, a picture is worth.......... Later, Michael From Dave White Tue Dec 19 02:03:35 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:03:35 +0000 From: Dave White Subject: Re: Salisbury for 88 > I have been thinking of putting a Salisbury axle on the rear end of my 88. >From what I have been told, they were only made for the 109 so it is necessary >to modify the axle to fit the 88. The Salisbury Axle is virtually indestructable, but as you suggested requires Spring mounting points to be cut off and re-welded into a new position to suit the 88". Again, as you supposed, the rear propshaft will require shortening to suit. The main disadvantage of the Salisbury of-road is its reduced ground clearance (approx 1") due to it's larger bulk. It's amazing how often that single inch can get you stuck, especially when you are caught in deep ruts. The standard axle is IMHO up to the job for most applications with the 2 1/4 engine - now if you want to run a V8 through a series box that's another matter :-) ---------------------------------------------------- Dave White. '72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear. '89 Range Rover Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 17:56:17 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:56:17 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy Ben wisely told us: > Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. Daryl Webb comments: > Hmmm tried that with my engine noises, nope still there 6 months later, > never went away. > Maybe I need to wait at least a year for it to go away. My experience is that engine noises never truly go away on their own. They get louder and more ominous. Then one day all of the engine noises go away (sometimes just after a big *boom*). Moral: Engine noises are not related to the "My ___ is better than your ___" noise which is found on most mailing lists. Second Observation: At least the RR vs Series debate is marginally on topic. It's not like people are debating the merits of emacs vs. vi. [I think it's time to exit stage left before that emacs lynch mob finds me] :) Ben From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 19 12:07:47 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:07:47 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy Ben wisely tells us: > Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. Hmmm tried that with my engine noises, nope still there 6 months later, never went away. Maybe I need to wait at least a year for it to go away. cheers -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 19 13:50:52 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:50:52 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy > Moral: Engine noises are not related to the "My ___ is better than > your ___" noise which is found on most mailing lists. > Second Observation: At least the RR vs Series debate is marginally on > topic. It's not like people are debating the merits of emacs vs. vi. Ooops did I misunderstand the topic.... terribly sorry, I must have got my noises mixed up :-) I always get a complex when this series V's disco/rangie stuff comes up. Seems no one loves a stage 1... The series folk dont like us 'cause we got a V8, full time 4x4 and some of us have factory cloth bucket seats and sound deadening. The "Plushmobile" (hey I *love* this term, it rates with Ben Eltons "Toyonissan wankmobile") people dont want us 'cause we got drum brakes, leaf springs, and leak like sieves. -- Daryl "V8,leaf springs,drum brakes,plastic dash,metal grill and proud" Webb From Russell Burns Mon Dec 18 19:43:59 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 19:43:59 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Disco pricing > Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking > at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | > | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | > *-----------------------------------------------------* One of my co-workers here in Detroit, of questionable Middle East desent decided that he wanted a Disco. After argueing with the local dealer for months, he wrote to every dealer east of the mississippi. He got one dealer to give him $1000.00 off sticker, and then proceded to call every other dealer, stating this one dealer was giving him $2000.00 off sticker. The long and the short of it was that he did manage to get the local dealer to match the $1000.00 off the sticker. He now drives a black disco.... Russ Burns > Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking > at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these > vehicles so I can have a little wiggle room in dealing with these jokers? From Dixon Kenner Mon Dec 18 23:02:42 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:02:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for Series On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > Probably was Young's Springs, as listed in the Land Rover Aftermarket Parts > list on WWW URL : http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html brought to you by > Mike Hoskins of Mid-America Rover, Kansas City, MO Tel/Fax 816-763-3797 > For the Web impaired: There is also another more extensive list of alternate parts in the Land Rover FAQ at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/FAQ.top.html This list is brought to you via OVLR and the members of ROAV, LRO list members... Rgds, From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 18 95 Dec EST 1923 Date: 18 Dec 95 23:06:18 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Tom Rowe Writes: Not to insult, but I wonder how much driving technique has to do with broken shafts. In all my years of driving LR's (well, only a little over 20) I've only broken one. That includes moving some very heavy loads both on & off-road. I do try to be careful in slippery condidtions not to hit solid ground with wheels spinning. ---- SNIP ---- I imagine driving has a lot to do with snapping shafts. I have also only broken one shaft in the Rover but since then have found myself much more careful with how I treat them. While this extends their life, I am sure that I will break another, and as Murphy would have it, at the most inopportune time. Knowing that the shafts HAVE a limit is one thing, but it is impossible to know exactly what that limit is. Sooner or later I am sure I will exceed it. Having a locked differential, can only help to increase the loads seen by the shafts. That is one of the reasons I was thinking of changing to the Salisbury. I think it would be a better just to keep the Rover axle and do what I can to increase the strength of the shaft. Granville Pool mentioned the McNamara and Maxi-Drive diffs in his message earlier today. While I had not heard of either of these I will look at them before I make my decision. I would prefer a locking diff that completely disengages when not and use, (or at least one where I can control its activation) and is activated from within the vehicle. Benjamin Smith forward another message from Granville: Part of the "legend" if you will about the axle shafts as "shear pins" is that the genuine axles will break in a clean cone shape without fraying. Many of the aftermarket axles will fray and in so doing jam the carrier bearing in the diff, causing it to be destroyed. ---- SNIP ---- When I snapped the shaft on the 88, it to frayed. I have no idea of the source of the shaft. I replaced it with genuine axles, so hopefully it will exhibit this clean "cone shape" and hopefully cause less damage. Rebuilding diffs is something I would rather not have to do again. At least now I have a spare. Again, Thank you for your thoughts ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_======_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_%%%%%_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | %%###%% | | | | %%###%% | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#%@@@%#_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_________//_\\_________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 18-Dec-1995 From Dixon Kenner Mon Dec 18 23:25:42 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:25:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > Well now that Mike Fredette is back on the list, is it time for > the biannual Defender vs. Series debate between Mike and Dixon? (And whoever > gets suck in) That always proves to be amusing to read. No matter what > happens Rover folks seem to like to debate/poke fun at just about anything. > Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. Yo, Series III swine... Before you set Mike and I up for round three, where do you open your beer on the dash? Rgds, (of course, Russell Burns et al, probaly have found dozens on places on the D90 by now... :-)) From Dixon Kenner Mon Dec 18 23:31:05 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:31:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > Seems no one loves a stage 1... True, but it is because you need to carry both metric & imperial sets with you. I'll even bet there is Whitworth on the the thing to... Much prefer one set to the other, but not both at the same time... :-) Rgds, From LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Mon Dec 18 22:26 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 22:26 CST From: LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Subject: Disco pricing 1-800-933-5555 is the number to Consumer Reports, they give you a printout on the dealer invoice as well options. I used it and got my D90 at dealer cost (I think it was about $4000 off of sticker, although don't quote me). I purchased it from Carousel Motors in Minneapolis. CR does charge $12 for each report, but they fax it within minutes of your request. Good Luck! David LeCompte Waterloo, Iowa '95 D90 #2073 ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 19 15:33:54 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:33:54 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:the nuts and bolts of stage 1's I wrote: > > Seems no one loves a stage 1... To which Dixon replies: > True, but it is because you need to carry both metric & imperial > sets with you. I'll even bet there is Whitworth on the the thing > to... Much prefer one set to the other, but not both at the same > time... :-) Dang right there is Whit. on the thing (all Real Landrovers have Whit bolts(g), along with BA, BSF, SAE imperial, Metric, assorted metric and SAE allen bolts, plain, inverted, phillips and posidrive screwheads. Havent found a torx yet, but its bound to be there somewhere.... You want an excuse to buy *lots* of tools? (and still never have the right one) Get a stage 1! -- Daryl "I know I had that 5/16W when I fitted the bearing seal....." Webb From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 19 15:45:31 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:45:31 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: SII, SIII and beer caps > Yo, Series III swine... Before you set Mike and I up for round > three, where do you open your beer on the dash? On the genuine Coke (tm) machine opener screwed to it .... -- Daryl From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 22:14:01 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:14:01 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy Daryl Webb wrote: I always get a complex when this series V's disco/rangie stuff comes up. Seems no one loves a stage 1... The series folk dont like us 'cause we got a V8, full time 4x4 and some of us have factory cloth bucket seats and sound deadening. The "Plushmobile" (hey I *love* this term, it rates with Ben Eltons "Toyonissan wankmobile") people dont want us 'cause we got drum brakes, leaf springs, and leak like sieves. Well, techically it is the "SIII, Stage I" (not that I've ever heard anyone saying "Stage I" in the same sentance as "Series III". I assume we could have a lively debate on whether a Stage I is a Series Rover or a 110 in disguise. :) Hmm, maybe I'll have to drive one find out. :) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 22:22:47 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:22:47 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy Dixon attempeth to inflameth" > Yo, Series III swine... Before you set Mike and I up for round > three, where do you open your beer on the dash? Got me there. I can't open it on the dash. But now that removed the silly piece the hides the windscreen to hardtop bolts, I've discovered that those very same bolts are a perfect for removing caps from beer bottles. So now I don't need to bend over to open my beer, eh. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Dec 18 22:26:55 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:26:55 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: WWW Aftermarket Parts (Was: Shocks & springs for Series) Dixon Kenner writes: :On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: :> Probably was Young's Springs, as listed in the Land Rover Aftermarket Parts :> list on WWW URL : http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html : : There is also another more extensive list of alternate parts : in the Land Rover FAQ at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/FAQ.top.html Now Dixon, of all the people surely YOU would remember to insert "OVLR" into the Web address above.... the correct OVLR FAQ WWW URL is: http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.top.html ^^^^ PS-- What are the odds of having the annoying background GIF image toned down or eliminated?? (I thought so! %-) Holiday Cheers! \ / -- o -- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 19 17:23:06 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:23:06 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Stage 1 stuff Ben Writes: > Well, techically it is the "SIII, Stage I" Series III 109" V8 if you please.... Which reminds me the FAQ is faqed re: stage 1 chassis no. location ISTR. Its still stamped on the LHR spring hanger, just like other sIII's >I assume we could have a lively debate on whether a Stage I is a Series Rover or a 110 in disguise. :) Hmm, maybe I'll have to drive one find out. :) Nah aint no 110 in disguise :-(, very much a series III, just with a bigger thirst and *almost* able to keep up with the traffic, hey its a B(PS)L product to boot. -- Daryl From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 18 23:12:06 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:12:06 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Stage 1 stuff Daryl Webb writes: > Ben Writes: > > Well, techically it is the "SIII, Stage I" > Series III 109" V8 if you please.... Ok, ok. Series III 109" V8 (Stage I). Happy? :) > Which reminds me the FAQ is faqed re: stage 1 chassis no. location ISTR. Its > still stamped on the LHR spring hanger, just like other sIII's Every Series Rover that I've seen it was on the right hand (driver's right) front spring hanger. Unless LHR means the same thing. I updated the FAQ to reflect this. (Stage Is are few and far beween in the States (and all grey market)). Ben, still with only 4 cylinders... -----------------------From "Seymour, Gareth" Tue Dec 19 08:58:00 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 08:58:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth" Subject: S.F.O. Hello San Francisco, I will be in San Francisco betwwen the 29th. Dec and 2nd. Jan. I will be staying at the Grant Plaza in China town and will be limited to public transport (which I am getting to know rather well after 5 trips). If there is are any subscribers who want to meet for a drink sometime let me know, pass on your telephone number for me to get in touch whilst there. I will not have email access after 5.00pm on the 21st Dec. (uk time). so any replies asap. Hoping for a nice long chat about rovers, Gareth From 19 95 Dec EST 1905 Date: 19 Dec 95 05:01:03 EST From: Subject: Land Rovers in movies Land Rovers in movies (or bits of) Check out Crocodile Dundee 2, Mick's holiday home on cliff edge. Nice series 1 windscreen with wiper, as window. Cheers for now, Happy holiday's Glenn From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Dec 19 02:06:43 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:06:43 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: S.F.O. Seymour, Gareth writes: >Hello San Francisco, >I will be in San Francisco betwwen the 29th. Dec and 2nd. Jan. I will be [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >replies asap. >Hoping for a nice long chat about rovers, Gareth, I've taken the liberty to post your message to the Left Coast Rover List. It has many more candidates for your inquiry, some of which have turned off the UK list. Holiday Cheers!! Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Lloyd Allison Tue Dec 19 22:28:25 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:28:25 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: diff locks, maxi drive there's a little diff-lock info at http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Axles/index.html maxi-drives are hard to track down, but I'm told that they're still making and selling them. They are supposed to tough enough to stand figures of eight on tarmac (what is heresay worth). McNamara might now be doing a unit operated from the cab as well as his nice and simple nut-and-spanner job. Lloyd From "barnett childress" Tue Dec 19 8:16:28 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 8:16:28 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Lockers,Man/Auto,Ft/Rr There's been some discussion on lockers lately. Here's my two cents for what it's worth. I hope this helps. I put a lot of research into lockers before I decided to go with ARB air lockers in both front & rear diff's, here's why. Manual v.s. Auto lockers. Auto lockers like Detroit, Truetrac, or LSD's Etc. have more moving parts inside, clutches, cones, plates Etc. Some need special lubricants, and most need more servicing. They lock/unlock depending on wheel speed in turns. This locking/unlocking can be sudden at times and can make the vehicle unstable in turns especially on road. If you get caught in a really tight section of trail I have seen people with auto lockers have a hell of a time. The lockers don't always unlock under these conditions and maneuvering is difficult. With a Manual locker YOU are in control. It's your option when to lock/unlock. The ARB can be locked on the fly, and it only takes a fraction of a second. I usually lock mine before attempting extremely difficult terrain. By locking before you get in trouble you minimize the risk of axle breakage due to spinning a wheel and then having it suddenly regain traction. Another great thing about the ARB is that when unlocked your back to having a regular totally open diff. No special lubricants and no surprises on the road. Front v.s. rear installation? Everyone I have talked to recommends a locker in both diff's. Of course they sell lockers! But seriously, this gives you true 4WD. Install the rear first if that's all you can afford. Most of the time the rear of the vehicle has the most weight/traction anyhow. You might find this is all you will ever need. The front locker is great if your climbing some really STEEP loose rocky terrain, where you can't use momentum, or rock crawling where your constantly lifting tires. Steering is harder, but not unmanageable, and I unlock my front diff as soon as it's no longer needed. Again the ARB is excellent for this. The only draw back to the ARB is the cost. But if your planning on keeping your Rover, and you feel the need for lockers, than I think there definitely worth the cost. Consider it part of your investment in your LR. You can always do the rear first, see how far that gets you, and install the front later as finances permit. I hope this helps. Regards, Barnett Childress 95 D90 Superwinch Husky 8/HD bumper OME HD suspension ARB Air lockers From Easton Trevor Tue Dec 19 08:17:00 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 08:17:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Vacuum Gauges Fred Ellsworth writes "does the vaccuum line from the gauge splice into the dist. vaccuum advance line or the brake booster vaccuum line?" The gauge should be connected to the manifold directly and a tee in the brake booster line will provide this connection. The vacuum advance line is connected to a small drilling in the carburettor close to the throttle butterfly and it is covered by the throttle when it is closed so would give an incorrect vacuum reading when at idle. use a small bore tube and also snub the flow by restricting the tube with a wire clip or similar. Unless this is done each piston will make the gauge move as it sucks , it won't be possible to read it and it will wear out fast. As a general rule for tuning and economy aim for the setting that results in the highest vacuum reading. Trevor Easton. From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Dec 19 05:33:01 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 05:33:01 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Poor Old Stage One Darryl (and Ben), I hear you. As far as I'm concerned, the Stage One is a Series vehicle. Actually, I think its the best of both worlds. V8 power and full time 4x4 but the ruggedness and simplicity of a series vehicle. Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that I drive one daily ;) Hey, I learnt to drive in a SII SW, aside from the power differential there's not much difference between a SII and a Stage I. YMMV Eric From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 19 07:44:51 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:44:51 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Robert Dennis writes: Snip > Having a locked differential, can only help to increase the loads seen by the > shafts. That is one of the reasons I was thinking of changing to the Snip I think it would be the opposite. One of the greatest stresses to a half shaft is being situated with one wheel on a slippery spot. As you start to move, that wheel gets most of the power from the drive train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good spot of friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a broken half shaft. With a locker used at the right times, the drive train energy gets divided evenly between both half shafts. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 19 07:49:03 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:49:03 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy > Ben wisely told us: > > Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > > never went away. > > Maybe I need to wait at least a year for it to go away. Ben retorts: > My experience is that engine noises never truly go away on their > own. They get louder and more ominous. Then one day all of the engine noises > go away (sometimes just after a big *boom*). > > Hmmm tried that with my engine noises, nope still there 6 months later, And I add my $.01 worth: Actually Ben it effectively goes away. As we Series owners slowly go deaf, it's as if it really goes away. ;-) Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Dec 19 06:03:14 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 06:03:14 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Tools In a Stage I Dixon, What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover? I always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite sex breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by. This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight of the beastly thing Eric From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Dec 19 14:29:07 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:29:07 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Trailers >If you're driving a short wheelbase truck, stick with a small trailer. That >goes for any short wheelbase truck. A friend of mine was hauling a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >point where he couldn't control it and everything wound up on it's side in a >field. No-one got hurt. A long wheelbase truck wouldn't have had that problem. Farmers in teh uk prefer to use 88 (and 90s) for towing big stuff cos they are rated to a higher trailer load, and are MORE stable. The hitch is much closer to the rear axle, so exerts far less twisting forces to the vehicle. The SWB is an much better towing platform than the LWB. Most buy SWB lorries specifically BECAUSE of their towing. The LWB carries more in the back, but is a farmer wants to carry a load, he chucks it in a trailer and pulls it with a SWB........You dont see many LWBs on farms. Thousands of farmers cant be wrong - they do this stuff every day and for real. From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Dec 19 09:51:26 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 09:51:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Tools In a Stage I To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Dixon, What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover? I always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite sex breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by. This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight of the beastly thing Eric I don't get it. First you're carrying several wenches in the car, then you're stopping to help some lovely make rice? Obviously this guy's driving a Dormobile. Wait... uh excuse me? Wrenches?... Uh, never mind. Dave "Not on Furlough" Bobeck Washington DC Our Nation's Capitol/Tourist's Nightmare From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Tue Dec 19 17:00 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 17:00 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Vacuum gauge, whitworth spanners Fred & all Connect the vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum. There might be a check valve between your manifold and the brake booster. Split the pipe between the manifold and valve. Or drill a hole in the manifold, tap it and stick a fitting of some type in there. The vacuum advance vacuum is normally (I don't know LR in particular yet, so YVMV) ported vacuum. This is tapped from the side of the carburetor, there's a little hole in the carb body near the butterfly. When the carb is totally closed the hole is on the "wrong" side of the butterfly, i.e. the air filter side = atmospheric. At slight throttle there's a big increase in vacuum, giving lots of advance for torque at pull-away. Less advance at more open throttle & light loads. The centrifugal advance is responsible for lighting the fuel earlier (time-wise) as revs increase. Anyway, that's how the cars I've played with work. Not important. Tie the meter to the manifold. Which brings me to a question - having grown up in a totally metric country, I havn't the faintest what the diffs are between whitworth, BA, BSF, imperial and all the other funnies are. I've noticed that whitworth is totally different from normal imperial (whatever it's really called). So, somebody please enlighten me. Maybe this is a job for MIKE ROOTH! Yes! He who said "Long live Whit,BSF,UNF and UNC." :-) Thanks Wouter -- Wouter de Waal ZS1KE GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W N+++>++ Argo 505 / FT200 !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*) '72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine Perseverance my son, '6? Series IIA SW - factory fitted Lucas immobiliser it's a Land/ /Rover "All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover From Dixon Kenner Tue Dec 19 10:07:59 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:07:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re:the nuts and bolts of stage 1's On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > Dang right there is Whit. on the thing (all Real Landrovers have Whit > bolts(g), along with BA, BSF, SAE imperial, Metric, assorted metric and SAE > allen bolts, plain, inverted, phillips and posidrive screwheads. Havent found > a torx yet, but its bound to be there somewhere.... You want an excuse to > buy *lots* of tools? (and still never have the right one) Get a stage 1! Hmmmm... Impressive... :-) Are you not missing BSP? For the torx, I'm sure if you get any goodies via Generous Motors that they will come with that elusive screwhead. Mount the coke machine bottle opener to the dash with a pair of torx screws. That will keep it safe from other jealous SIII owners that have yet to shred their headliners in search of a place to open a cold one... From Mike Rooth Tue Dec 19 15:06:34 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 15:06:34 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Trailers > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > pulls it with a SWB........You dont see many LWBs on farms. > Thousands of farmers cant be wrong - they do this stuff every day and for real. No farmer is *ever* wrong.Its always the soil,the seeds,the government, the heat,the rain............ Cheers(Or not..) Mike Rooth From Dixon Kenner Tue Dec 19 10:11:59 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:11:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > Got me there. I can't open it on the dash. But now that removed the > silly piece the hides the windscreen to hardtop bolts, I've discovered that > those very same bolts are a perfect for removing caps from beer bottles. > So now I don't need to bend over to open my beer, eh. Then you hit a bump and get beer all over the roof. Sounds like you then need the genuine extra-absorbant-headliner kit from RN to soak up all of this *wasted* beverage. Nope, never been impressed with the Series III, but Daryl is showing that under the ownership of a visionary that a stage one may be acceptable. From Dixon Kenner Tue Dec 19 10:18:10 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: WWW Aftermarket Parts (Was: Shocks & springs for Series) On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > Now Dixon, of all the people surely YOU would remember to insert "OVLR" > into the Web address above.... the correct OVLR FAQ WWW URL is: > http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.top.html It was late... :-) Besides, it just sits in the OVLR directory, it isn't the OVLR FAQ. Glad to see you have the correct URL for it. Makes it easy for people to point to the current version... :-) > PS-- What are the odds of having the annoying background GIF image toned > down or eliminated?? (I thought so! %-) Doesn't show on this workstation, in fact comes up either grey or a mottled white on all of the machines in the Canadian Forestry Service (my latest home). Have only seen it with the intended background once on a workstation in the Mining Sector of the department of Natural Resources. Rgds, From Sanna@aol.com Tue Dec 19 10:38:57 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:38:57 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover Climate Control >>Enlighten me, oh sage list, in the mysteries of the Range Rover climate control system. Well Scott, I think I was the one who started the FOG MACHINE thread. Last summer, Annabelle (my '89 RR), would cloud over at the slightest hint of humidity. Having to roll up the windows in a summer downpour would mean INSTANT fog, and turning on the defogger would just create micro-weather systems around the interior (light showers in the back seat, gusty winds up front, small funnel clouds in the way back, etc.). Lullubelle (my '70 IIa 88) didn't have that problem, but then it didn't have anything to fog (stripped at the waist). I did a quick fix by strapping the recirc flap open with a cable tie (it defaults closed when the solenoid goes), but last fall I decided to to a complete fix when the fan came loose from the motor spindle. To put it in a nutshell, getting at the whole heater schlemeel is rather straight forward. I did the same as you, trying to figure it out ahead of time with the manual, but there is very little info there. Just start unscrewing things, but give yourself a break on the re-fit and organize the screws & parts as you disassemble (bits from this part of the dash in that bucket, parts from that bit of the dash in this bucket). I stripped mine down to the last step, disconnecting the heater box from the water supply, but if you really want to do a complete job, pull the heater box out of the truck and clean, rebuild, and seal it on the bench. I spent as much time as the removal would have taken, fiddling with things on the floor on my back. Don't forget to check the recirc valve solenoid & vacumn switch while your under there (on the side by the drivers knee). It seems to be one part that fails on a lot of RR's. Also check the fan bearings & such. You don't want to do this twice. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll walk you through it if you need. - Tony From russ burns Tue Dec 19 07:44:23 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:44:23 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Trailers I towed a 25 Ft camping trailer out to Colorado last summer with the D-90 I was amazed a at how stable the D-90 is pulling a trailer at 70 MPH. The trailer is 25 ft and weighs 3500 lbs. I also towed home a small tractor (5000+ lbs) with the Range Rover. That trip was quite interesting as on of the rear bushing had let lose giving me rear steering abilities.... needless to say 55 to 60 MPH was the limit. I do find that the short wheelbase is quite sensitive to steering input, and changing lanes can be very quick and exciting when ones wife is driving..... Russ Burns 91 Range Rover 94 D-90 Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Mike Rooth Tue Dec 19 15:45:43 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 15:45:43 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Whit Oy Wouter!Dont blame me!I just *use* 'em.I didnt *invent* the things:-) Whit,(BSW,or British Standard Whitworth),BSF(British Standard Fine),and BA (British Association),are all Imperial. The numbers denote the diameter of the bolt itself.So 1/4"Whit is a 1/4" dia bolt,Whitworth threaded.The number of threads to the inch can be found in any good engineering book.Whit is the coarse one,BSF,as its name implies is the fine version.Both have thw Whitworth thread shape,which,if memory serves is a 55deg flank angle,with sharp crest and root to the thread.Embarassingly, although I've *used* a lot of BA stuff,and I seem to remember it actually is a metric thread,I dont know much about it. More later. Cheers Mike Rooth From Robert Kolander Tue Dec 19 09:46:13 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:46:13 -0600 From: Robert Kolander Subject: RE: Disco Pricing Edmunds web site has a lot of useful info as far as dealer prices, wholesale, and retail, for both base price and options.... They don't know what the dealer holdback is for Landy's, but obviously is one (and not a paultry sum, I'm sure). Here's the address: http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds/ They also have some pretty entertaining "methods" on how to deal w/a dealer. From Robert Kolander Tue Dec 19 09:52:59 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:52:59 -0600 From: Robert Kolander Subject: WANTED: DEFENDER 90 I'm searching for a used 94-95 (prefer 95) Defender 90. The fewer the options the better, and, of course, I'm looking for the one that "only grandma drove, once a week, to the corner store..." (yeah, right). My price range is the low to mid $20's, and I'm a serious buyer. I've gotten one lead already, but it was a little too rich for my blood. Please email me with any information or leads. Thanks! kolan001@maroon.tc.umn.edu From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Dec 19 11:04:01 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:04:01 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Front receiver You wrote "Where does a front receiver on a Disco attach on the vessel? Where do I go to get one mounted? Do air bag considerations affect this?" It mounts over the bumper attachments to the frame. Seems like it would be very strong. Since the reciever doesn't clear the bumper, the crush cans on the bumper would still work in a slow crash and the airbags shouldn't be affected at higher speeds. Rovers North sell the receivers. You can mount it yourself but a second person would make it easier. Since I don't carry the winch mounted while on the road, I don't really worry about the aribags not working. When I'n on the trail and have the winch on, the only thing I worry about hitting are slow Series owners.....JUST KIDDING!!!! ;-) Merry Christmas to all! May all of your Land Rover Dreams come true! Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam From DEBROWN@pabvmsys.SRP.GOV Tue Dec 19 09:08:34 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 09:08:34 MST From: DEBROWN@pabvmsys.SRP.GOV Subject: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles?? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles?? Could anyone help me with a part number for Rancho shocks that will fit a IIa 88 that has military 1-tonne shackles (approx 1.5"-2" lift)? I'd like to get the 4 for $99 deal but need to get the number that will work. While we're on the subject, are the Bilstein shocks as good as the OME (Old Man Emu) shocks? I can get the Bilstein's for $49 each, anyone know of a better deal? These will be for the '87 Range over "plushmobile". I'll also need part numbers for these as well, and (to throw another wrench.. er... spanner into the works) I also plan to install springs that will raise the RR about 1.5" to 2". Thanks a BUNCH!!! #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Tue Dec 19 11:15:14 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:15:14 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: lockers Dear all, In reading a email on lockers recently I find a few flaws in the logic. The original email from Eric Z. is correct. General knowledge usually dictates that people put lockers in the rear, due to cost, ease of installation, and lack of steering parts. But, the ARB style lockers are very well suited for use in the front end. Yes it is hard to steer (that is the point of having a locker up there, full lock, full traction), but the locker would only be used in stuck situations. The locker is a tool for certain situations and you have to know when, and when not to use it. On road the locker would not be used, and the only problem you could have is if you left the hubs engaged, then accidently hit the switch, but even that would not do anything if the transfer case was in 2WD. Steering torque from front engagement would not be noticable, beacuse the front drive shaft would have no geared power to it at the time. You'd know it happened, but it would not throw you around. Sliding or lurching sidways is directly related to gravity. The locker units themselves, engaging, have no part in making the vehicle slide, unless (god forbid) you have engaged the unit while spinning!. It would be a steep incline combined with tire spin that would cause any sideways movement. I have never had any sideways movement when engaging a locker. The best combination that we use off road is an ARB type full control locker in the front, and either a full ARB type, or gear type posi in the rear. This system works well in our Rovers off road. It is costly, but worth the investment to get you through. Mike Smith, ECR From "Gerald" Tue Dec 19 11:24:06 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:24:06 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Washing a Disco What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud and salt off a Disco? I guess there are some spots underneath I need to pay attention to. Saw five Discos this morning, snow forecast seems to bring them out, but no wavers. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From Mike Fredette~ Tue Dec 19 10:26:14 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:26:14 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Trying to incite a riot On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: Well now that Mike Fredette is back on the list, is it time for the biannual Defender vs. Series debate between Mike and Dixon? (And whoever gets suck in) That always proves to be amusing to read. No matter what happens Rover folks seem to like to debate/poke fun at just about anything. Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months. Yo, Series III swine... Before you set Mike and I up for round three, where do you open your beer on the dash? Rgds, (of course, Russell Burns et al, probaly have found dozens on places on the D90 by now... :-)) Oh no you don't. I'm not falling for that bait again. Dixon and I buried that old hatchet a long time ago, rather boring and pointless to dig it up again.Besides, it is that holiday time of year and all that. And worst of all, I can't risk getting Terriann mad at me again. So I'll let someone else carry on the legacy, pointless and silly as it is. Rgds Mike Fredette d90 From Chris Haslam Tue Dec 19 12:43:18 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:43:18 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: 88 RR Radio Wire Colours I have the radio out of the RR and would like to check whether it works, etc. Connecting it to 12 volts is a problem: the wire colours on the radio don't correspond to those on the vehicle schematics. Unfortunately, the temperature is -15C or so, so I'm not about to do a "look see" in the vehicle. Can anyone tell me the correspondence between vehicle and radio wire colours? ...chris haslam From Dixon Kenner Tue Dec 19 13:42:02 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:42:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Tools In a Stage I On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 ericz@cloud9.net wrote: > What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover? I > always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite > sex breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by. Chances are that she would know the difference between metric & imperial anyway, and with the way that rice burners are built, it doesn't matter anyway... :-) > This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight > of the beastly thing That only happens when you are carrying a small set of wrenches... From Jeff Gauvin Tue Dec 19 11:39:49 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:39:49 MST From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: consoles, wading, and D90SW I installed a Tuffy Deluxe Stereo Console (10" wide - the "Jeep" model) in my D90 last weekend. Everything went pretty smoothly once I decided how I was going to mount it and located all the proper fasteners. It requires at least 1.125" of spacing under it to clear obstacles. Some drilling was necessary. The unit is tough-as-hell and looks so good you'd think it was standard equipment. No, I take that back; it looks _MUCH_BETTER_ than the standard cubby and has about twice as much space. Regarding wading: the spec for NAS D90's is 20", presumably because of the computer. But, if you can keep that dry, the next weakest link is the differential breathers at about 32" (if I recall correctly). Of course, ingesting water into your diffs won't stop you dead but will mandate a fluid change ASAP. The engine air intake is at 41". Not sure where the bottom of the fan sits. I've been in 30" of water w/o any problems. During one memorable deep stream crossing I dropped my D90's front wheels into a narrow but even deeper "ditch", causing the entire nose of the vehicle to momentarily drop below waterline. The only problem was that the bonnet scooped up several gallons of water which was then promptly deposited inside the cab via the open vents... From MACLEME@whin.net 12/19/95 12:57 1900 Date: 12/19/95 12:57 From: MACLEME@whin.net Subject: Fwd: '96 County Classic I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the U.S. and am leasing a '93 County SWB through August of '96. I was hoping to replace the vehicle at that time with a '96 County Classic, however, my dealer informs me that production of the '96 County Classic is on hold indefinitely due to the overwhelming response to the 4.0 and 4.6. A decision is apparently due soon. Does anybody have any further details? Thanks, Mark Clemence macleme@whin.net From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 19 11:13:43 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:13:43 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Tom Rowe wrote: I think it would be the opposite. One of the greatest stresses to a half shaft is being situated with one wheel on a slippery spot. As you start to move, that wheel gets most of the power from the drive train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good spot of friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a broken half shaft. I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in 3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low speed and one was pulling away from a stop sign. My best guess is that they were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point of actually breaking the half shaft. (For those that are counting, I don't recall where I was when the 4th half shaft broke, but I know that it wasn't while I was off roading.) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Russell Burns Tue Dec 19 11:38:08 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:38:08 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Trying to incite a riot You blokes north of the border depress me, what is this crap about opening bottles ect... Teeth are the only way. Besides I thought the resoning behind landrovers were the ability to carry KEGS anywhere... Russ > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)] > Rgds > Mike Fredette > d90 From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Tue Dec 19 12:40:14 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:40:14 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: Steering Wobble Fred Ellsworth says: >I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain speeds which makes me think an alignment is in order.< It could be as simple as a wheel balance or an alignment. However, I would jack up the front of the Rover first and check for movement in the wheel bearings and the steering knuckle. This could save you some money which you can use to fix the real problem. Lastly I would not put on a steering damper or new shocks until all other likly repaires are explored. If the wobble gets really bad when you hit a pot hole I would say it is the steering knuckle bushings(on top) or the steering knuckle bearings(on bottom). Do you have locking hubs? Make sure that you engage them once a week or so inorder that the knuckle bushings get some oil on them. Andrew Howton I've owned/own several. From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Tue Dec 19 12:01:25 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:01:25 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Salisbury for 88+lockers and shafts I sent this reply directly to Rob Dennis yesterday (should have posted to the list): ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No personal experience but will offer what I've learned about this issue. Certainly the Salisbury diff has significant advantages. Aside from cost, one disadvantage is that it takes special tools (case spreader) to intsall/remove one (like a lot of American axles). I see another netter mentioned weight, etc. A less-expensive alternative (unless you have a really cheap source of the Salisbury unit and for the required fabrication), that keeps your Rover-type axle housing and ring and pinion, is a differential strengthening kit from McNamara in Oz. It gives you a four-pinion carrier and allows the use of the 24-spline Salisbury shafts. You can take it a small step further and add a simple, almost free-wheeling-hub-like mechanical locker while still keeping that price within reason. Next step beyond that is to go with the McNamara vacuum-operated locker. I seem to recall that that one will set you back some $1,200 but even that might be less than Salisbury+ARB. You can read about McNamara's offerings on the web. I think you can link from one of Lloyd Allison's pages, either the AWD/4WD magazine page or his Rover page. Contact info, from Rover page (as of Dec '94) is: > 25 Levanswell Rd., Moorabbin, Vic 3189, Australia, > tel: 61-3-555-2213, fax: 61-3-555-0251 Also had this about Maxi-Drive diffs: > The following details are from a 1988 ad' and may be out of date.) > Mal Story, Key Four Wheel Drive, Lot 9, Gilston Road, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Vacuum operated diff lock with warning light. > Available for Salisbury 8HA and `Rover type' diffs, front and rear, > Land-Rover and Range Rover. I met a fellow at the Portland meet that has the Maxi-Drives in his 109, his name is Franklin (last name I forget at the moment). Article about him and his Rover (by Jim Allen) in August '94 issue of LRW. If you want to talk to Franklin, I have his phone no. somewhere and can look it up. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I should have added to the above, to clarify, that both the Maxi-Drives and McNamaras (except the cheapy one) are driver-controlled from within the cab. Inasmuch as these and ARBs are all Aussie products and no other driver-controlled aftermarket lockers seem to be available, I gotta wonder how it came to pass that Oz cornered this market. Smarter'n the rest o' us? Check out the above-mentioned article on Franklin's LR; he devised really slick controls for the Maxi-Drives. I also want to comment on the fears expressed by some about having lockers and limited-slip diffs in the front. I had for several [bleak] years a Scout that had LS (Powrlok) front and rear. I was always happy with the one in front; no problems whatever. Not at all happy with LS in rear as it made rear slide sideways on any sideslope. This seemed to be much more of a detriment to getting places I wanted to go than its traction-enhancement was an advantage. I now have LS in the rear of my Dodge Dakota 4x4 and also have mixed feelings about this, both on and off the road. Can deliver some nasty surprises on corners on wet pavement. Give me driver-controlled lockers any day. For years I drove a 1970 Series IIA 88 that had a spooled (totally locked, as in side gears welded to the diff gears) third-member (can no longer call it a diff, eh). I won't pretend that it was easy to drive (extremely tiring actually). But if you learn the proper technique, this can be driven anywhere, including down steep trails. Not for the faint-at-heart, as you have to power [a little] through turns no matter that they are downhill! But it could climb, oh, yes! Gave me a glimpse of what could be achieved with driver-controlled lockers (without the disadvantages of my spool) and made me lust for them ever since I knew that they were available. Now it's just a matter of money. BTW, I kept the spool when I traded off the LR and have been considering putting it in my current ride (SIII 88=The Snark) until I can afford Driver-Controlled Lockers. Cheers, Granville From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Tue Dec 19 12:01:38 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:01:38 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Power Steering in an 88 No one seems to have given a useful response to the question about power steering in an 88. Bob Bernard's 88 has a set-up that he did simply and inexpensively using Saginaw (American) junk-yard parts. I thought Bob was on the lro list and am surprised he didn't respond to the question. Bob can be reached at and I'm sure will be happy to help. Granny Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From lopezba@atnet.at Tue Dec 19 21:01:05 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:01:05 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Power Steering in a Series L/R Wouter from ZA wrote: >So I'll continue making a nuisance of myself, to whit : >What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the >SO to be able to drive the beast too. Wouter - I was really surprised to see that my PC would actually accept Power Steering and Series L/R in the same sentence. However, if I understand your question correctly, you want to make it easier for your wife ? to drive the L/R. Several comments are on the tip of my keyboard, but I will be strong and not let them flow on to your screen. Therefore, my comment will not help much: If you come to Vienna (which I hope you will, it is a very nice place), you might go to the former Imperial Palace and visit the Imperial Apartments. There you will be shown the living quarters of our last-but-one empress, who was killed by an anarchist with a file in Switzerland, but that is beside the point. In her bedroom she had several gymnastic apparatusses, among them rings suspended from a very high doorframe. Apparently she did chin-ups on these, among other things. Of course we are much more advanced nowadays, so you might consider some Nautilus equipment for your wife. Power steering!! I hope she never comes to Vienna to sock me for this... Just joshing Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 19 14:06:44 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:06:44 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: broken shafts Ben writes: > I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in > 3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low speed > and one was pulling away from a stop sign. My best guess is that they > were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point > of actually breaking the half shaft. (For those that are counting, I don't Absolutely, I'm sure. My only break was in my 109 at a stop light. I had bad clutch judder at the time, and whamo! the half shaft let go. One thing no one has mentioned is that it's usually a good idea to replace them in pairs. If one broke, no doubt the other got stressed, too. Save it for an emergency spare I guess. They don't *all* break in the boonies. Sometimes you're lucky and it happens in town. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 19 95 Dec EST 1913 Date: 19 Dec 95 13:38:57 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: re: Lockers Tom Rowe Writes: >> One of the greatest stresses to a half shaft is being situated with one wheel on a slippery spot. As you start to move, that wheel gets most of the power from the drive train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good spot of friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a broken half shaft. With a locker used at the right times, the drive train energy gets divided evenly between both half shafts.<< ---- SNIP ---- Yes this is the easiest way to snap an axle, and a locker would certainly prevent this from happening. What I was thinking was that typically the vehicle loads are transferred equally until one wheel begins to slip. With a locker the load would continue to build on the wheel with good traction and possibly transferring almost the entire load to just one wheel. This is what I was afraid might break the shaft. And from Mike Smith: >> In reading a email on lockers recently I find a few flaws in the logic. The original email from Eric Z. is correct. General knowledge usually dictates that people put lockers in the rear, due to cost, ease of installation, and lack of steering parts. But, the ARB style lockers are very well suited for use in the front end. << ---- SNIP ---- Are you saying that if you were going to start with one axle or the other, you would put the front in first? I could understand this based on the weight distribution of the vehicle, but the situations were I think the locker would be of most use, would be on very steep, rocky or slippery terrain. I don't know what the weight distribution of an 88 is, but I think it would be more on the rear on any hill of about 40 degrees and steeper. Especially with any load in the rear of the vehicle. Once again, thanks for your responses. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_======_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_%%%%%_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | %%###%% | | | | %%###%% | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#%@@@%#_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_________//_\\_________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 19-Dec-1995 From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Tue Dec 19 14:26:03 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:26:03 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: re: RS5000 Sale All, I called the Rancho customer service number about the rumored sale on RS5000 shocks (4/$99). They couldn't give me a answer on the sale status ("um, we're just the factory..."). So I called a local Rancho dealer, but they hadn't heard of any sale on Rancho products. And certianly not the ~42% off that 4/ $99 represents ($43 each regular). If someone knows a shop selling the RS5000s at 4/$99 please email me or post the phone number of this place - I'd love to be able to get a set... Thanks, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "I hope all that training with Lego was worth something..." From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 19 12:54:21 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:54:21 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Land Rover Web site Hello, all. There's some sort of site at http://www.execpc.com/~adjacent/landroverdemo/. Anyone else see this yet? Is it an official LRNA page? I found it just by running a search on the new Alta Vista engine (http://altavista.digital.com/). This page only has information on the 4.0 SE, though. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From Simon Barclay Wed Dec 20 07:57:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 07:57:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles?? I'm not sure about OME, but I've been running Bilstein's for years (since '82) on my RR's for both on and off road work and generally they are pretty good. They do tend to overheat after 'prolonged use' on corregated roads, of which there are an abundance here in OZ. I have now fitted Polly Air bags and will be able to report after the Christmas break as to what difference they make as I will be covering the same territory as last year, and the year before, and the year before that, and........ (off to the "in Laws" sheep property - way out west). Lets just say I'm familiar with the tracks, and they are pretty rough! I did have a problem with a rear pair about 4 or 5 years ago when they both went "soft" at the same time. Strange noises eminated from them (when in use) so I replaced them and haven't had the same problem since. You can also get them rebuilt at a pretty reasonable price. Mind you, if you are only paying $49 new why worry!!! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 19 13:06:35 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:06:35 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Land Rover Web site - update and apology Oh, dear. It seems I stumbled upon a site someone's *developing* for Land Rover or developing on spec, hoping LRNA will buy it. If I'd read through more of the obviously unfinished pages, I'd have hesitated about posting the URL. As someone in the security business, this is particularly intriguing to me; usually test pages aren't accessible from outside. Beautifully designed site, though. I apologize to whomever developed it for letting the cat out of the bag. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From "Soren Vels Christensen" Tue Dec 19 22:03:09 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:03:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: Series of questions II In message Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:44:37 +0000, cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) writes: : :2) I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain : :speeds which makes me think an alignment is in order. Is this something : :any old cheapo tire place can do for $29.95 or is there something special : :about my '71 SIIA 88" that screams for more money? : : After tweaking your alignment, try a new steering dampener. My wobble at : 55+ mph on a '72 Series III went away after putting in new Rancho shocks : and dampener. Someone said earlier that Rancho is having a sale right : now, 4 shocks for $99! I've had the wobbles too. After fitting new track rod and all ends i had to align. Jack up front, align one wheel with rearwheel (down on all four and aim) so that they are parallel. Check the other side to see if they are parallel. If not, - adjust. Experiment with fine adjust by test driving at about 50-60 mph (wobbles) and sharp turns (easy operation). Before you spend money on shocks, check the old ones first. If the casing is not rusted through, take them off and exercise them 30-40 times each. Keep them vertical and turn them around each 10 strokes. It may sound a bit ridiculous but with a bit of luck the shocks could become as new for a while. We did it on my brother's 88 and on-road handling really improved. Most of the time Landy shocks only move about one inch or so and the rubber inside seems to seat within that inch. : :3) Does anyone know the part number of a good, inexpensive replacement : for :the steering dampener shock on series vehicles? Air. (Well, i don't have a steering damper myself but they seem to cause some people trouble after a while). Just a few tips from a poor parking lot mechanic. Use them as you like. rgds sv/aurens From Dixon Kenner Tue Dec 19 16:41:28 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Land Rover Web site - update and apology On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote: > Beautifully designed site, though. I apologize to whomever developed it > for letting the cat out of the bag. Seen the site the other day. DEC's little search engine has been very thorough and busy searching through all sorts of sites looking for web pages. It found the OVLR site a couple months before we were ever ready to tell anyone about it. Until DEC's announcement on Alta Vista a number of us were wondering why DEC was searching the net so thoroughly... From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 19 13:44:19 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:44:19 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover Web site - update and apology In message <199512192105.QAA03958@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Oh, dear. It seems I stumbled upon a site someone's *developing* for Land > Rover or developing on spec, hoping LRNA will buy it. If I'd read through > more of the obviously unfinished pages, I'd have hesitated about posting > the URL. As someone in the security business, this is particularly > intriguing to me; usually test pages aren't accessible from outside. Most people don't remember to put in an .htaccess list on every single directory. When I was developing the OVLR pages I first had it on file so that noone could see it. Then I had to put it out for Dixon to look at. Because I'm a fascist security type, I was looking at the access logs on a daily basis and noticed a number of search engines accessing the pages. (One was by DEC who recently announced their new web index). So if anyone is making a WWW site and doesn't wants to stop random robots from cataloging your site, make sure that you have .htaccess files in every accessably directory and convince your sysadmin to give you permission to review the access logs. Ben (And now back to Rover discussions) From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 19 15:56:40 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:56:40 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: new web site Just took a look at the web site an ad agency is proposing to LRNA. Eh, ok I guess. Looks like it's done by an ad agency. LRNA would be better off getting a LR owner to do it. Looooong load times for each page. And that's with a direct net connection. Although this is the time of day things tend to slow down. Guess I'm still kind of dissapointed that the LR ads, including this web site, seem all directed to the rich. Damn that tarrif. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Dec 19 14:26:52 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:26:52 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: broken shafts In message <199512192004.PAA03825@butler.uk.stratus.com> "Tom Rowe" writes: > Ben writes: ; > I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in > > 3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low > > speed ; > and one was pulling away from a stop sign. My best guess is that they > > were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point > > of actually breaking the half shaft. (For those that are counting, I don't ; Tom writes: ; Absolutely, I'm sure. My only break was in my 109 at a stop light. I > had bad clutch judder at the time, and whamo! the half shaft let go. ; TeriAnn Continues the thread: To date I have broke 4 axles in the 109. The first one was towing a small shed up a hill. One wheel spun over a gopher hole then crack. That was the short axle on the outside flange. This was the only time I was lucky enough to brake an axle at the outside. About 3 or 4 months later, I was turning out of a parking lot and the other axle snapped on the inside splines. I pulled back into the parking lot and parked the car. A broken tooth had already taken out the ring & pinion. Thats when I learned about replacing both axles if one goes. The next axle came a couple of years later, pulling out from a stop sign. The last was exactly the same only a couple years later. So at this time I'm down four axles and 3 diffs. Each time the break was at the inside splines a part got into the ring & pinion before I could stop the car & remove both axles & the drive shaft. Just lucky I guess. For the last for years I have had these special "unbreakable" rear axles in. I know of one other person who has them installed. He drives a little more gonzo than I but he has the lighter car of the two (his an 88 mine a 109). Were boh waiting to see if the other breaks an axle. If he loses one, I'm replacing mine right away. If I were running stock rear axles, I think I would pull them out & replace them with new ones every three or four years just because I know the next one will take out the diff too & those ring & pinions get expensive. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 19 95 Dec EST 1905 Date: 19 Dec 95 5:12:36 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: I need a PCV valve! To effect a permanent cure on my carb icing yet not be belching crankcase fumes into the air I need to snare a PCV valve from someone's junkbox. I don't care if the diaphragm's good - I can replace that. The bracket would be a very good thing, also... Or, (and actually my preference), anybody got a part number for a current-usage PCV valve that will work properly on a Rover? Al Richer From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 19 95 Dec EST 1905 Date: 19 Dec 95 5:12:47 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Carb Icing & PCV systems? Bill was spot-on with the PCV call on my icing. I disconnected the valve cover breather from my air intake and plugged it and the icing has gone completely away. No fuss, no muss....Worked great! Kudos to Mr W.D.Cockey.... AJR From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Dec 19 19:27:20 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:27:20 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Solihull Phone number needed Would one of the list members in the UK kindly send me the phone number of LR Headquarters in Solihull. ( I am just too cheap to pay 4.95 for info thru the phone co.) Thanks..Steve WA2GMC 72 slll 88 From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Dec 19 20:00:39 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:00:39 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Tom Rowe writes: With a locker used at the right times, the drive train energy gets divided evenly between both half shafts. Actually, with the differential locked both power and torque are "divided" according to the respective traction on each wheel. This is a function of the rubber/ground interface, and any differences in tire diameters. With a totally open differential TORQUE is split evenly (in an axle) or according to the designed ratio in a center diff. Power is speed times torque, and therefore will be split according to wheel speed. This equal split of torque is why single wheelspin happens. When the torque exceeds the traction available to one wheel, it starts to spin and the other tire continues to have the same torque. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 18 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 18 Dec 95 8:02:10 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Carb Icing & PCV systems? Bill was spot-on with the PCV call on my icing. I disconnected the valve cover breather from my air intake and plugged it and the icing has gone completely away. No fuss, no muss....Worked great! Kudos to Mr W.D.Cockey.... AJR From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 11:47:06 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:47:06 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Stage 1 stuff (reprise) > > Ben Writes: > > > Well, techically it is the "SIII, Stage I" > > Series III 109" V8 if you please.... > Ok, ok. Series III 109" V8 (Stage I). Happy? :) Much better, thank you -- Daryl From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 18 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 18 Dec 95 8:04:44 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: I need a PCV valve! To effect a permanent cure on my carb icing yet not be belching crankcase fumes into the air I need to snare a PCV valve from someone's junkbox. I don't care if the diaphragm's good - I can replace that. The bracket would be a very good thing, also... Or, (and actually my preference), anybody got a part number for a current-usage PCV valve that will work properly on a Rover? Al Richer From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 11:56:51 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:56:51 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Poor Old Stage One Eric confirms our beliefs: > As far as I'm concerned, the Stage One is a Series vehicle. Actually, I think its the best of both worlds. V8 power and full time 4x4 but the ruggedness and simplicity of a series vehicle. Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that I drive one daily ;) > Hey, I learnt to drive in a SII SW, aside from the power differential there's not much difference between a SII and a Stage I. Not much power difference on mine at the moment either :-( > YMMV Nope always the same, dismal... ~ 20+ L/100km... -- Daryl From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Dec 19 17:28:02 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:28:02 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Solihull Phone number needed Steve ?? writes >Would one of the list members in the UK kindly send me the phone number of LR >Headquarters in Solihull. ( I am just too cheap to pay 4.95 for info thru >the phone co.) Thanks..Steve WA2GMC 72 slll 88 Land Rover Lode Lane, Solihull West Midlands B92 8NW England Locally 0 121 722 2424 Fax 0 121 742 1927 Int'l +44 121 722 2424 Fax +44 121 742 1927 From US 011+44 121 722 2424 Fax 011+44 121 742 1927 Telex 333766 Lan Rov G Holiday Cheer!! \ / -- o -- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 12:13:50 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:13:50 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: the nuts and bolts of stage 1's Dixon quips: > Hmmmm... Impressive... :-) Are you not missing BSP? Uuum well I think I use SAE stuff on the BSP fittings... (like diff breathers ?) Failing that shifters work well. Dang I forgot that there is NPT there too (oil pressure/temp senders and maybe the swivel filler plugs?). I can never pick which one is 3/8-27 and 3/8-28 on eof tyhem is NPT and the other something else. These two suckers always get me. I bet just about everyone on the car has the wrong fitting in it. Aint no substitute for brute force, ignorance and gasket goo...... > For the torx,I'm sure if you get any goodies via Generous Motors that they will come with that elusive screwhead. Too Late, a little birdie in the West Indies told me off line that Landrover have excelled themselves. Guess what fitting the filler plug is on the new R380 box........ I'm told that an 8mm (?) allen key will make a nice substitute though. > Mount the coke machine bottle opener to the dash with a pair of torx screws. Heathen.... Every accessory on a land rover has to be fitted with genuine fasteners.. specifically 1/4" (6mm on a post 9/80 rationalization series vehicle) "pop" rivets. Same ones that you keep replacing in the body... cheer-- Daryl From WAHORN@aol.com Tue Dec 19 21:14:26 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:14:26 -0500 From: WAHORN@aol.com Subject: WHEELS & TIRES HEY Y'ALL, Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco fitting a series Rover.Well I talked to my local Land Rover dealer (Jax FL) and he said that all of the Discos come with aluminum wheels.Does anyone know of other dealers that would be willing to ship some.Also what size tires are people using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. Thanks Ashley Horn P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them ? '67 109" S/W nearly restored (financed by VISA gold) From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 19 18:26:45 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:26:45 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles Yes, riding in a Jeep once does count. Now go forth and sin no more! Happy Holidays! John At 11:54 18.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >In message <199512171715.MAA00507@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" >writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] >I rode in a jeep once. Does that count? >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Tue Dec 19 19:06:41 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:06:41 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: Re: Solihull Phone number needed > Telex 333766 Lan Rov G Do people still use Telex? Is there a way to send Telexes via the internet? 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 Donald Youngson E-Mail address: kinley@direct.ca West Vancouver, B.C. Tel/fax: +8-604-926-6282 Canada V7V 1V4 From vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Tue Dec 19 22:18:05 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:18:05 EST From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Subject: Why There Will Always Be An England The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the replacement of UN forces by NATO to which Gunner John Smith opined: "It doesn From vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Tue Dec 19 22:22:01 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:22:01 EST From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Subject: Why There Will Always Be An England The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the replacement of UN forces From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 03:20:37 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:20:37 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: test message Please e-mail back From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Tue Dec 19 22:43:36 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:43:36 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Jeep Sympathy and a good word I recently bade a tearful farewell to two old friends: '54 and a '55 Willys 4x4 Station Wagons (loved the little "Jeep 4 wheel drive" stencil and pot metal emblems and 'Willys' embossed on the chromed bumper ). Oh the days gone by when flatheads ruled the Earth! While not on a par with Rovers or Dodge Power Wagons, these lovable, quirky cars were among my all time favorite vehicles. So what if the radiator constantly puked all over the place! The car never let me down in the worst weather, Trico vacuum powered wipers and everything! Go ahead and slam the AMC and Iacocca incarnations of the esteemed Jeep as they deserve every word of invective, but don't tread on my Willys! What a car. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Tue Dec 19 23:07:24 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:07:24 EST From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Subject: Apology I apologize to you all for some problems at my end that probably resulted in some incomplete or garbled messages. It has been corrected. I was trying to say: The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the replacement of UN forces in Bosnia by NATO to which Gunner John Smith opined: "It doesn't make any difference to us. We get the same orders whatever colour the Land Rovers are." - Agence France Press, December 16. Tom Vogel '72 SIII 88" From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 15:14:49 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:14:49 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Oh The Shame of it... Re: fixing bottle openers to dash panels. I *Never* wrote that LR's use 1/4" rivets, nope not me, no way, not from this keyboard, I wasnt here, I didn't do it, you didnt see me, you cant prove a thing. You all simply mis-read what I wrote, yeah thats it mis-read... What *I* wrote was that you use 3/16" ( 4.8 mm for post 9/80 rationalisation vehicles) 'pop" rivets. Undercomestumble? -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 15:37:04 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:37:04 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES > using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. If your '67 still has the original rims then the offset is a full 1/2" greater than the current Disco (7 X16) or Defender 5.5X16 rims. Pre-68 rims (or 88" optionals) are 5.5 x 16 x 1 13/16 off set (46mm) post '68 series jobbies are 5.5 x 16 x 1 5/16 (33mm) as are D110 Disco steel's 7.0 x 16 x 33mm D130 steels 6.5 x 16 x 21mm (I want i want) Here in OZ 235/85-16 are legal on all of these rims (though on 5.5's are officially "experimental fitments") > P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them Ok well ummm. Technically and legally you need to use a tube, so that is my reccomendation. However it is possible to fit the tyres up tubeless, and I have been doing so without incident for years. This is not a reccomendation, and I would have prefered to have had the tyres fitted "legally" but the agent did not have any tubes to suit so I had little choice. Over the years I've become less worried about beads pulling off the rim. The last time I had a puncture they had to use heavy truck bead breakers to get the suckers off (8 ply tyres not 14's) of course YMMV and for safetys sake you should use tubes but......... -- Daryl From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 20 00:12:17 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 00:12:17 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Origins Mike Smith wrote that Jeeps were used in the first Camel Trophy. Only four teams took part, and all were from West Germany. Anyway, they didn't have a place to carry a second spare, so they bolted them to the bonnets, a la Rover. The vehicles were poorly built, and with all that bashing about in the Amazon basin, the carbs ended up getting, well *shortened* a bit. It was a major disaster and Jeep hasn't been used since. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Dec 19 18:48:35 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 18:48:35 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Dixons abilities Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has he been a bit shy about telling you all about it? By the way Dixon is also looking for someone to show him how to use a phone to communicate with people instead of the modem and key board!! -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Dec 19 18:45:21 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 18:45:21 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Camel Trophy uplink site For those of you with (unlike myself) the ability to roam the web sites and upload stuff here is something for you. Camel Trophy images can be accessed at the following sites:- http://www.featurephoto.com and http:www.4x4u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats-newcamelt1.htm -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Wed Dec 20 16:23:16 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 16:23:16 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES Not sure what country a previous poster is from, but as I said before steel rims are standard and bounteous on Disco's in Australia (and prob UK). Standard tyre size for LWB Series and 110 LR's has been 7.50 16 for as long as I can remember. For Australians unable to erase nightmares, Dunlop Roadtrack Majors were standard fare for a long time. 235/85 16 tyres have the same overall height (and circumference) as the 7.50 16 if you feel you need the extra width (eg for sand driving). Tubeless tyres cannot be fitted to standard steel LR rims (legally) but can be to Disco and RR rims. Going on holidays for 2 weeks so I won't be replying to anything before then. Regards James Carley Sydney, Australia '85 110 From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 04:32:54 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 04:32:54 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Ignore the test.. Don't reply I have had problems with the MSN network delivering mail. Seems that its working fne now. You lot don't have to reply. Mark From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 04:33:46 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 04:33:46 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: FW: Series 1 for sale ---------- From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 19 21:50:37 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:50:37 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco pricing Questionable Middle East descent? Why, because you aren't sure he's from the Middle East or because he knows how to haggle? Ah, the art of the deal. Cheers! John At 19:43 18.12.95 PST, Russell Burns wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >> Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] >> at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these >> vehicles so I can have a little wiggle room in dealing with these jokers? From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Dec 20 16:10:21 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:10:21 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Dixons abilities > Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has > he been a bit shy about telling you all about it? Oooh, no he's kept quiet about this one. Pray tell, for what galant act did he receive the award. I bet lots of us would like to know just so that we can comfort the poor unfortunate :-) come on Dixon 'fess up. -- Daryl From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 19 22:28:20 1995 Subject: Re: Dixons abilities Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:28:20 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Daryl Webb wrote: > Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has > he been a bit shy about telling you all about it? Oooh, no he's kept quiet about this one. Pray tell, for what galant act did he receive the award. I bet lots of us would like to know just so that we can comfort the poor unfortunate :-) I haven't heard all of the details and have been waiting to see what got printed in the newsletter. Last I heard Dixon had a long list of nominees, including myself (though I can't recall what for off hand). The day after he got the award, Dixon was mumbling on how Dale Despray had sandbagged him. Maybe Robin will have to enlighten us. :-) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "T.F. Mills" Wed Dec 20 01:02:06 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:02:06 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LR Off Road School / Colorado? Anyone know anything about this? < David Dodell Contact Tom Collins, POB 587, Snowmass, CO 81654, 970-927-3788. He is also the Camel Trophy USA Team coordinator. I think the school is jointly operated by the Colorado and San Diego LR dealerships. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Dec 20 09:57:34 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:57:34 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Dixons abilities >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers He was perfectly OK with the phone when he rang me to sympathise with my decorating "sentence".Wasnt even shouting. Cheers Mike Rooth From "S.W.Brierley" Wed Dec 20 09:56:01 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:56:01 GMT From: "S.W.Brierley" Subject: Merry Christmas to all LRO's (Early-going away) Hi all Fellow LRO's, Just a christams wish to you all from myself(stu) and EMMA, my SerIII SWB. I am going away for christmas to Suffolk and will not have net access, so i'll say it now. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. C U all in '96 Stu and EMMA. From Richard Jones Wed Dec 20 9:57:33 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 9:57:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Fwd: '96 County Classic Mark Clemence writes: > I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the U.S. and am leasing a '93 County SWB > through August of '96. I was hoping to replace the vehicle at that time with a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > 4.0 and 4.6. A decision is apparently due soon. Does anybody have any further > details? The last Classic is currently scheduled to come off the line on February 8th 1996, and from there be driven to the Heritage Museum at Gaydon where it will take up residence. It will be the last (no 25) of the 25th Anniversary Final Edition (the other 24 have already been built). Incidentally no 25 should have been built already to since all right hand drive production has now finished, but it is being held up for the camera's. Current build is purely European spec left hand drive vehicles. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Vel Natarajan Wed Dec 20 04:22:42 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 04:22:42 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Cappings and Galvanizing I've noticed a fair amount of rust on the rear cappings of my 66 SWB, maybe from the PO steel-wooling them before he sold it. (It looked OK at the time.) I would rather leave them au-natural (as is) then paint them, but... I've also noticed an ad by "Shire 4x4" in Oxfordshire selling re-galvanized cappings. It would be nice to not have to worry about rusty cappings for a few decades... How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace the cappings. Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old pop-rivets which hold on the badges. How hard is it to use a 'real' rivet gun? Anyone ever replaced these babies? Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-566-323 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 03:00:07 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 03:00:07 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: New Years Mojave Road trip Gerry Elam posted a little bit on this last week (on the main list). Since I'll be away for most of next week, I put together a web page with more details, a brief map and some photos from when I drove the road last May. http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/MojaveRoad.html Note that in some postings a few of the GPS coordinates were off by 7 minutes of longitude (mea culpa--I screwed up marking my map). The web page has the coordinates that I think are correct (but are subject to my measurement mistakes). In brief a number of the California and Arizona Rovers are spending New Years weekend driving the old Mojave Wagon Road. This is a light offroad and was not challenging last May (dry conditions). Any Rovers are welcome. If you want to come email me or Gerry because it would be nice to know how many people are coming ahead of time. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Wed Dec 20 13:46 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 13:46 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Re: Whit Hi all So Mike sez: >Whit,(BSW,or British Standard Whitworth),BSF(British Standard >Fine),and BA (British Association),are all Imperial. >The numbers denote the diameter of the bolt itself.So 1/4"Whit >is a 1/4" dia bolt,Whitworth threaded.The number of threads Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size? What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what fits where? Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Wouter -- Wouter de Waal Phone : +27 21 683 5490 Development Engineer Fax : +27 21 683 5435 CCII Systems Kenilworth, South Africa From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 20 12:18:51 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 12:18:51 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: washing a disco Gerald wrote : > What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud > and salt off a Disco? I guess there are some spots underneath I need > to pay attention to. one thing to look out for is the ariel, i stuck mine through a car wash and was so preoccupied about the list of jobs and errands my wife had given me i had to sit and watch in horror as the brush things changed my straight arial into a peice of bendy wire uri geller would have been proud to produce. :-) oh well it still works and i may just have to get out the manual and change it. by the way the haynes manual only has 4 lines on this, and it says that once you have removed the splash guard, then disconnect the areil connector, i have only ever seen ariels with the connector that goes right into the radio, or have the lr mechs been sensible about where the connectors are sitiuated. From Stuart Williams Wed Dec 20 08:12:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:12:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: Thermal Differences ... All, Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix weather in the dead of summer? After all, he'd have to .sig his messages with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ... > Merry Christmas to all! May all of your Land Rover Dreams come true! > Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam Ah, but it's *dry* heat, right Gerry? Cheers, Stuart "Charlottesville high: 32" Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser (non-plushmobile) From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:18:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:18:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Noises that go away. Regarding the thread on engine noises that go away, get worse or deafen the operator. When I added sound proofing to Miss Golightly I found it psychologically disturbing to not hear all the noises I was used to. Then again Series owners are psychologically disturbed, noises or not. From Lee Zeltzer Wed Dec 20 06:27:46 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:27:46 -0700 From: Lee Zeltzer Subject: Purchasing dilemma A month or so ago I posted a request for leads to purchase a used D110. Instead I plunked down a deposit on a new D90 hardtop which is due in next week. Currently I own and love a 94 Discovery, however I cannot pry it out of my wife's hands. Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? I post this not to start a debate but frankly because I am torn beteen the creature comforts of another Discovery and the fact that I live in the best 4 wheel drive country in the world; Arizona. From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:38:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:38:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Half Shafts To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and continue. Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 20 08:17:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:17:00 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Wdcockey@aol.com writes; > Actually, with the differential locked both power and torque are "divided" according to the respective traction on each wheel. This is a function of the rubber/ground interface, and any differences in tire diameters. With a totally open differential TORQUE is split evenly (in an axle) or according to the designed ratio in a center diff. Power is speed times torque, and therefore will be split according to wheel speed. This equal split of torque is why single wheelspin happens. When the torque exceeds the traction available to one wheel, it starts to spin and the other tire > continues to have the same torque. Sure, go and get technical on me. OK, I admit it was a sloppy statement (but aren't LR's about getting in the slop?). It was an ineffective way of trying to say you won't suddenly have a lot of power going to a wheel with nowhere to go except to break, or weaken, a half shaft, as you would with a detroit locker type diff. One wheel isn't going to be spinning madly and suddenly stop. Sheeesh, you engineer types. ;-) But it's ok, I understand. I get the same way about welding & pipefitting. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 20 08:32:01 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:32:01 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Half Shafts Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton writes: > To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and > continue. This also shows that we all should spend more time off road so we don't break half shafts. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 20 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 20 Dec 95 9:40:20 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the >front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, >driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no >parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and >continue. Dunno about this.... Having driven Churchill with the hubs locked and unlocked, I will say that I need the extra 10MPH and fuel mileage I get with the front hubs unlocked. Turning all that machinery just doesn't make a lot of sense when it's not imminently needed. There's little enough power in a 2.25 to waste it on spinning inert metal..... As far as the broken half-shaft scenario goes, that is why I have wheel chocks. If there's no one behind you, that's what CURBSTONES are for....or rocks.....or pedestrians.....8*) >Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 20 09:55:41 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixons abilities On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > come on Dixon 'fess up. Lies... (It was 21 years between oil filter changes, not 17) rumours... (You couldn't tell I drove over my landlords lamp post) Not my fault!... (no comment) I've been framed! From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 20 10:00:16 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixons abilities On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > I haven't heard all of the details and have been waiting to see what > got printed in the newsletter. Last I heard Dixon had a long list of > nominees including myself (though I can't recall what for off hand). > The day after he got the award, Dixon was mumbling on how Dale Despray > had sandbagged him. Dale is very unhappy about the newsletter. Seems I lost his and Ted's list of these supposed transgressions. However, to balance things out, and being editor, the newsletter is going to be much more entertaining this year (I ain't gonna be the first to get it twice), starting with Dale... I did tell them I would print any article-type thing they wished to write. It would be filed in a new fiction section in the newsletter > Maybe Robin will have to enlighten us. :-) Robin missed the party... :-) You're going to have to get Dale to talk. From add@philabs.research.philips.com (Aninda V. Dasgupta) Wed Dec 20 10:24:22 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:24:22 EST From: add@philabs.research.philips.com (Aninda V. Dasgupta) Subject: New Disco great in the snow, but has audio hum I got a new Avalon Blue Discovery last Friday. (For those discussing prices of Discos, I got mine for more than $1000 off MSRP, then added many "options" at dealer cost.) I drove my Disco to the Finger Lakes region of NY state last weekend, and it was snowing heavily at times. Yesterday we had the season's highest snowfall, and while most of my coworkers stayed home for the day, I decided to leave work with about a foot of snow on the ground. And I must say that I was impressed and immensely pleased with the way my Disco handled in the snow. I didn't feel any skidding or wheel-slippage, although granted that I don't drive like most 4x4 nuts out on the road who think the weather can't touch them. The two minor problems I have had so far with the Disco are: 1) The passenger seat recliner knob broke off with ouur first attempt to recline the seat. I am debating whether to just put the knob back on with some crazy glue, or wait till I take the car for service to the dealer 2) The audio system has a hum which increases in pitch as I rev the engine. I hear the hum even when the volume is turned off. I guess the audio system is picking up noise from the coil which may not be shielded. Or it could be that the dealer didn't install the CD changer properly. Can anyone on this list offer me advice as to what I can do to get rid of the hum? My dealer is more than an hour away, and I don't really want to make the trip down there unless I have to. But all in all, it's indeed a pleasure to drive this vehicle. Hope this level of satisfaction continues. Thanks to many members of this list who helped me with advice on the Discovery before and during my purchase of the vehicle. Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year everyone! -Aninda -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aninda DasGupta (add@philabs.philips.com) Ph:(914)945-6071 Fax:(914)945-6552 Philips Labs\n 345 Scarborough Rd\n Briarcliff Manor\n NY 10510 "Err.., Phillips Petroleum gives you gas; fortunately Phillips Chemical makes antacid. Philips is with one "el"; we make lightbulbs, and other shtuff." From tbwill@interserv.com Wed Dec 20 07:24:35 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:24:35 -0800 From: tbwill@interserv.com Subject: Disco Pricing > Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking > at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | > | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | > *-----------------------------------------------------* Out here on the West Coast, we have the "Kelly Blue Book" auto price guide. This used to be only for used cars, but now thay have a new car version. To get to the point, they show the cost of a 1995 "loaded" Discovery at 88.74% of the MSRP (MSRP - $36,575, Cost - $32,456). The local dealer confirmed this when he showed me the dealer cost of a demo I was contemplating buying. The figures were identical to the ones in the Kelly Blue Book. Hope this helps. By the way I took delivery of the Disco last Thursday. Tom Williams Fresno, CA From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 09:11:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 09:11:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Willys Bill Adams writes "Don't tread on my Willys" :-) How appropriate that someone who signs off 3Dmentia should have had two willys :-) From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:57:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:57:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Pictures of Camel Trials LRNA press release for December 10 mentions the availability of pictures at http://www.featurephoto.com and http:www.4x4u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats-newcamelt1.htm. If anyone gets pictures from these sites can they Email me some bmps or gifs as I don't have access. Thanks Trevor Easton This is the release. Typos courtesy of my scanner and OCR FOUR FINALISTS ANNOUNCED FOR CAMEL TROPHY KALIMANTAN '96 World's most intense four-wheel drive adventure is "tough fun" HOLLlSTER, Calif - December 10, 1995 - After more than thirty-two hours of grueling marathon trials here this weekend, four finalists have been selected for the United States' 1996 Camel Trophy team. Two of these four will go on to represent the U.S. in April when two-person teams from twenty nations travel to Kalimantan, Indonesia on the island of Borneo, for the adventure of a lifetime. Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, N.J.; Ken Cameron, 26, a carpenter from Vail, Colo.; Fred Hoess, 29, a champion motorcycle racer from Stanhope, N.J.; and Greg Oberst, 36, a firefighter and paramedic from Seal Beach, Calif. will travel to the Camel Trophy International Selections in Seville, Spain next February, where they will vie for the chance to represent the USA in the "Olympics of Four-Wheel Drive." "Whether you know it or not, you prepare tor something IIKe this most of your life: a challenging new venue filled with multiple things to do in a short time. It's tough fun," said Hoess. Oberst described the punishing 1,000-mile trek as "a multi-sport adventure that fits my lifestyle." The National Trials in Hollister were the first step in determining the U.S. team. Nine candidates, chosen from more than 400 applicants, competed in such individual and group tasks as hoisting a full 55-gallon drum one meter above the ground using only three logs, two pulleys and a length of rope; winching a vehicle uphill by hand; and crossing an algae-covered pond on a suspended rope, immediately after running six strenuous miles through the northern California hills. At night, the men used their Land Rover Discoverys, identical to the vehicles driven on the actual event, to demonstrate their off-road driving prowess. Slowed by a mud bog and then a near-vertical rock climb, the candidates winched their way, inch by inch, along the test course. While waiting their turns at the wheel, the competitors took written tests of map-reading, first-aid, and mechanical knowledge -- all critical Camel Trophy skills. The candidates are judged on their enthusiasm, their ability to perform arduous tasks under the most difficult conditions and their willingness to listen to new ideas and techniques. "Making the Camel Trophy team would be the achievement of a lifetime," said Cameron. "The Trials have already taught me that teamwork means letting the other guys have a voice and then picking a leader." For Brandner, Borneo "would be a different kind of growing experience...the trials have already shown me a lot of things I don't know and surprised me with some things I could do when challenged. I'll be growing myself." Camel Trophy is sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., marketer of Camel Trophy adventure gear and clothing and by Land Rover, manufacturer of premium British four-wheel drive vehicles. Additional U.S. Team support is provided by Coleman, Inc. From Tony Bonanno Wed Dec 20 08:57:18 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:18 -0800 From: Tony Bonanno Subject: Front end wobble Don't know if this observation is applicable to the postings I saw regarding front end wobble, but thought it might be worth considering. On my series IIA, noticed front end wobble/shimmy for several years with hubs engaged (but without 4 WD selected) starting at speeds of 35 - 40 mph and getting worse with more speed. Dissappeared when hubs were unlocked and front drive-train disengaged. After considering several tire balance/wheel/alignment/worn swivel pin, etc. possibilities, turned out to be none of them. What was causing the problem was worn splines in the sliding joint of the front prop shaft. The wear of the splines caused just enough play to set up major vibration when turning at speed. Remember, that all of the front end drive train still turns when in two wheel drive (UNLESS you have free wheeling hubs in the "free" position) and the angle of the front drive shaft is somewhat more severe than the rear (thereby more susceptible to wear problems?). Lesson here is keep that baby properly lubed. I have to admit, mine has been on the vehicle for about 25 years, so I can't really complain. Anyway, put a new front drive shaft on this summer, and is it smooth now !! NO vibration. I just regret that it took me so many years to figure out what was causing the vibration. Cheers, Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM From Tony Bonanno Wed Dec 20 08:57:15 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:15 -0800 From: Tony Bonanno Subject: Broken Axles Experiences Like most of the others posting on this subject, I've had a few broken axles over the past 25 years in my IIA SWB. However, only once did I break an axle off-road. All the other times, I was just starting off on dry pavement. Obviously, stress was building up over a period of time and it reaches the "breaking" point eventually.. Notice the "twisted" splines on BOTH the half shafts when you break one. I think I've learned a few things though since I haven't had an axle break (knock on wood) for about the last 10 years. A few items that I believe contribute to long axle life: - All my broken axles occurred using "oversize" tires. Since switching to 235/75's (I have 15" rims), no problem. - Definitely replace both half shafts if one breaks.. - Stay away from cheap aftermarket half-shafts. Back in the 70's, these were quite common from certain suppliers here in the U.S. I remember someone did some hardness testing on the original equipment vs. the aftermarket items. The aftermarket stuff was horrible. - Try to minimize excess slop in drive train (clutch judder, worn spring shackles, etc.). - Periodically check the condition of axle splines. You can pull them out in minutes. Check for twisting of splines. If any noticable twisting, I'd replace ASAP. The one time I broke a half-shaft off-road, I was way out in the middle of nowhere - on a high country track in southern Utah ... no one around to assist and it was cold and dark. Although risky (in terms of damaging my rear diff from metal debris), I drove the 40 miles or so home using the front axle (4WD High). Next day, pulled the broken half shaft, dropped the rear diff, removed the broken end from the carrier, cleaned things up, and installed new axles. Apparently, I didn't do any damage to rear diff from broken pieces, etc. Although, I can see how that could happen easily. Cheers! Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM From "Steve Methley" Wed Dec 20 17:08:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:00 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Whit Wouter says: ..Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size ..head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word ..than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth ..bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? and ..Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Whitworth was designed by Sir Joe Whitworth in 1841. OD's on the bolts were in fractions of an inch and the heads were standardised but not by a simple relation to bolt OD as far as I can see. I think it had more to do with the hex stock that the bolts were made from in that era. Of course the States followed with their own slightly different copy a little later. Metric came along at the turn of the century. Mike may well be right when he suggests a connection between BA and metric as BA is a Swiss watch thread historically I seem to remember. Back to the point in hand: BSW heads are not all the same size. Also BSW and BSF spanners are the same sizes, but when used on BSF fits 'the next bolt up' ie a 5/16 BSF will fit a 1/4 Whit - again if my memory serves me correctly. If you're really stuck a 14mm spanner will fit a 9/16 BSF head, as I discovered - it's almost perfect in theory too! You did ask... -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 117 922 8751 *** / *** fax: +44 117 922 9286 switchboard: +44 117 979 9910 ***** ***** or 8920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Dec 20 17:08:08 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:08 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Whit >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Hi all [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word >than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth >bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? *All* heads are a funny size if you look at it like that.But yes Imperial spanners are different sizes to metric. >The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed >to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) AF spanners will fit most bolts on a Land Rover,including *some* Imperial. But god help you if you try and shift a reluctant Whit bolt with an AF spanner,'cos no-one else will:-) AF stands for Across Flats,is American, and refers to the head size.The threads will be either UNF or UNC. >So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four >spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size? >No,1/4" BSW,1/4"bsf are different spanners.BA is the diddy little things you find on electrical stuff,so you need a set of diddy BA spanners. >What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil >dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what >fits where? You've got *sets*? Cor! A rich man! >Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Since when has easy been a recomendation.*So* much more restrictive, dont you think?With the great range offered by Imperial/American just *think* of all the things you can bolt together,using the *correct* thread for the job,insted of the nearest that might do. With luck.Imp/Am is so much better... >Wouter >-- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >CCII Systems >Kenilworth, South Africa Cheers Mike Rooth From "John J. Tackley" Wed Dec 20 12:18:45 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:18:45 +0000 From: "John J. Tackley" Subject: Washing a Disco...... Gerald asks: What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud and salt off a Disco? personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and brandishing wash rags..................... From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 13:13:29 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:13:29 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Washing a Disco...... On 20 Dec 95 at 12:18, John J. Tackley wrote: > Gerald asks: > What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and > brandishing wash rags..................... Are elephants Series devotees who might be a danger to my Disco? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Wed Dec 20 10:21:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:21:31 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES Ashley Horn asked: >HEY Y'ALL, >Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >people >using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. These wheels (nearly flat centers, five ovalish cooling slots, 7"x16") should be available from Land Rover dealers as they were "stock" on NAS D90s (but try to find a 90 with 'em! JB had to do big-time arm-twisting to get his 90 with 'em and not have to pay for the changeover--from "optional" alloys!). TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new, takeoffs" for about $85 each. Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25 pounds sterling each. British Pacific (e-mail to britpac@aol.com) in Burbank, CA is getting at least a pallet-load of brand new steel Disco wheels soon and sounds like they will be somewhere around $70 each. I'm lusting for a set. But if I get them I plan to fit them with 265/80R16 (=33x10.50x16) Interco Super Swamper TSL radials. Fantastic tire for mud and rock crawling. But 235/85R16s would be ideal on these rims. >P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them? Really should have safety beads to run tubeless but these can be added by a machine and welding shop. Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From Bennett Leeds Wed Dec 20 10:27:13 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:27:13 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Re: Disco pricing >...Consumer Reports, they give > you a printout on the dealer invoice as well options.. > CR does charge $12 for each report... If you're on the www, Edmund's has all that info for free. Try: http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds - Bennett From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Wed Dec 20 13:34:22 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Heat Not Hot Okay, okay. I know that these things aren't supposed to be warm in the winter. Or draft-free for that matter. But the heater in the '69 SRIIa doesn't seem to be putting out all the warmth it did last winter (and that wasn't a lot of warmth, believe me). At idle, after warming up the beast for several minutes, the heat is like room temperature. If I rev the engine, by pulling out that Cold Start thing, it warms up. But as soon as I slow the motor down the air cools off again. Is this a bad thermostat? Chris Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIa 88" SW Beckett Klay Communications 100 West Road Baltimore, Maryland 21204 USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Wed Dec 20 13:06:54 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:06:54 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Rancho RS5000 shocks - 4/$99 Thanks for the replies - I called 4 wheel parts wholesalers (310-323-5337) and the shocks are on sale through the end of the year. Get 'em while the gettin's good... Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "This is fun?" From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 20 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 20 Dec 95 14:10:26 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Washing a Disco...... Re: Elephants being Series fans: They should be, consideing they're both large, uuuuuugly, monolithic creatures at home in Africa, India and justaboutbloody everywhere else.....8*) aj"Theyre just not GREEN"r From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Dec 20 14:30:14 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:30:14 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: wrenches Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has a unique head design which they claim will fit any type bolt head or nut you will encounter, even good for rounded off ones. It was called the METRINCH and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody else has seen or has these??? Regards Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 20:00:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 20:00:31 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: SI more info That S1 is a 53, had a frame over rebuild 4 years ago, needs tyres, top is dented. The starter is out, seems that someone had snapped the connector to attach the power. Brake, clutch all rebuilt. Has a 2 litre engine. He's asking $2500. Going for a drive Friday, will let you know if I take it or pass it on. Mark From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Wed Dec 20 15:07:57 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 15:07:57 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Disco antenna replacement Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric retracting antenna and installing it. I will be doing this when (not if) I break my antenna again. (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still ) Caution, instructions given for antenna on right hand side, with passenger on right hand side, eg US version. I plead ignorance of UK versions, but assume mirror image. Camel "Lite" Task difficulty: 2 Camel "Lite" Time to complete: 2 hrs Team activity?: Yes, except for Ben, who, having driven up the mountain for .5 Jolt units, is oscillating so much from the caffine that he is simultaneously in two places. ;-) Requires: 1 Disco, 1 Antenna, a few wrenches (spanners?), pop rivet tool, small knife, fish. Patience. Exterior 1) The splash guard is attached with some weird pop rivets (about 3). Be prepare to remove & replace these. They are attched along the inside of the wheel well. There are also about 8 plastic expanding things that are like sleves with a pin inside that expands the end of the sleve. The little pin that pokes inside can be levered/extracted out with a sharp pocket knife. The plastic sleve/boltish thing can then be removed. These can be re-used. 2) Be VERY careful unbolting/torqueing the actual antenna. The metal is apparently soft and you can bend it. 3) Now, what I did was to snip the antenna wire close to the antenna, and remove & install the new antenna. You can reach your arm up there to do it (see above caution, Use some lockjaws or whatever to hold the unit while someone else unscrews the nut. 4) I taped a fish to the old antenna wire and pulled it through the interior. Interior 1) You must remove the floor trim panel on the side by where your passengers feet go. I recall there only being a screw that had a plastic cap on it and then it sliped out. 2) You must lower the trim panel above where your passengers feet go. (That's all as I recall). This had a weird thing that looked like a big pan headed plastic screw but really was sort of push in thing when it came down to it. 3) The mess of wires up there is lucas's revenge. For what I don't know. :-) Find the one that is the antenna wire, pull it and your fish through. Note! Have your asitant guide the fish through all of the grommets without becomming un attatched. I Find soapy water to help. 4) Attach the fish to the new wire and repeat the procedure. Mine had some replacement grommets to be reseated. ymmv. 5) The female end of the antenna wire is within reach in the mess of wires in step 3 above. You will find it pretty easily. No radio removal or center console removal is required (I know, I was amazed as well). Dunno how you would put in a power one. I will soon I'm sure. Bon chance ttfn Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com 5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829 From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 16:03:30 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:30 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES On 20 Dec 95 at 10:21, Granville B. Pool wrote: . . . . > alloys!). TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these > steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new, > takeoffs" for about $85 each. Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25 > pounds sterling each. . . . . How much do the steel Disco wheels weigh? Maybe I'll pick up a set next time I'm in U.K. and bring them back as checked baggage. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 16:03:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:31 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement When ("not if) you install the power antenna please report back the prcedure. Since it appears to be an option in the U.K. there may be power for it. On 20 Dec 95 at 15:07, Tom Des Jardins wrote: > Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric > retracting antenna and installing it. I will be doing this when (not if) I > break my antenna again. (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 > disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still ) . . . . -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 21:20:16 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 21:20:16 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Spotting S1 stuff Just wondering if anyone knows when the S1 went to 86" from 80" ? From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 21 09:01:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:01:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: wrenches These have been available in Oz for some years now. I haven't seen them as a set though, only as individual units (makes it an expensive way to buy them) but they are very handy. I have only seen them as 1/2" drive. So far I only have a handfull, but they have saved a lot of cursing, grazed knuckles etc... ...and yes, they do work well on rounded off ones!! BTW I have passed a brown 110 twice this week on the Harbour bridge with Christmas tinsel wrapped around the bull bar and the aerials.... Is he on the 'net?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From "Hugh Grierson" Thu Dec 21 11:03:34 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:03:34 +1300 From: "Hugh Grierson" Subject: Re: Whit > The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed > to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) What! No 7/16? That's the first spanner I had to buy two of for removing landy body parts (closely followed by the 1/2). -- Hugh Grierson hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 21 09:17:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:17:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Spotting S1 stuff Late 1953.... From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 20 17:35:24 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette >How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace >the cappings. Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal: Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working. Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and the sheet metal.Don't be shy. 3 to 5 blows should pop the head off and you can then drive the remaining rivet guts out of the hole with a small nail set. If you worry about marring the surface, try this on the inboard side of the panel. For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. I don't know about your area but I take small stuff for galvanizing to a place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do as a side job. Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 15:04:11 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:04:11 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Half Shafts Trevor Easton wrote: To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and continue. You could do that. Whenever I've broken a half-shaft, I've stopped immediatly. The more you drive drive around, the greater the change that you'll suck a bit into the crowngear and blow the diff. Almost every Rover will have something in it that can be used as a chock. If I'm not doing a side-of-the-road repair, I remove the propshaft, remove both half shafts and put the half-shaft end caps back on. Then I move the Rover. That way I don't do any additional damage to the diff. Also why put needless wear and tear on the front diff and it's linkage? All that does is suck gas and decrease your top speed. Ben, keeping my Warn hubs the way they are ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 15:16:59 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:16:59 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Spotting S1 stuff In message <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com> From Rick Grant Wed Dec 20 20:14:23 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:14:23 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Bosnia travels Well I'm just back from a month in the former Yugoslavia and a hell of a lot of it spent in various Land Rovers. The most dramatic time was a week ago today when I was trying to travel in a Discovery from Tuzla, north of Sarajevo, to Medugorje, near the coast; a distance of roughly 300-400 Km. Well the emphasis was truly on the roughly. It took us 20 hours to plough our way through the metre of snow that fell that day. Despite living in Canada, including eight years in the Arctic, I've never seen winter driving conditions as bad as they were on that trip. The worst bit was trying to get over the mountain after Zenica to join the main road, in fact the only road, that links Sarajevo and the coast. The mountain road is called the PacMan route for some odd reason and it's a hellish ride in any snowfall but beyond description in a one metre blizzard. It was made all the worse by the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of stuck and abandoned trucks and other vehicles up one side of the mountain and down the other. But that Discovery Tdi simply chugged its way through it all and somehow kept us from plunging over the edge into some bottomless ravine. I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting stuck. With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily charge off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any vehicle blocking the way. Many times the snow was rolling up over the bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on. We passed a number of Defenders that weren't doing so well but to be fair to them they were the armored type and the extra weight, about another tonne and a half I believe, severely hampered them. Those armored Def's are true pigs. I drove one in Sarajevo for a bit and it was like trying to pilot a submarine on wheels. All the armored plate puts a tremendous imbalance into the suspension and even though they're equipped with stronger springs and shocks they drive more like a boulder crashing down a mountainside than anything resembling a vehicle. And then there's the near total lack of visibility. The windscreen and the side windows are much smaller than normal so it's a bit like looking through the driving slit of a tank. The glass is bullet proof as well but it's also coated with a sheet of some sort of plastic that flares any light, such as headlights, into a blooming cloud of rainbow col ours. I believe that people with severe cataracts would recognize the effect. But there are lots of more stock Defenders roaring around Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina as well as vast numbers of new Discovery's owned by the United Nations. The UN Disco's are a bit of a scandal in the Croatian capital of Zagreb where they don't get much use beyond running around the city or trips out to the airport. In fact there are a couple of dozen new Disco's with every kind of accessory that are only used at the airport by the UN and Zagreb doesn't get much snow, not to mention that the roads are BMW smooth. I didn't see too many "salvageable" wrecks lying around other than in Tuzla where there is this really nice clump of six S111's sitting in a junkyard right in the city centre. All but two are sitting on their rubber and although I couldn't get closer than 30 metres they appear pretty intact, right down to wipers and spare wheel fittings on the bonnets. I would think that given the number of trucking outfits now running into places like Tuzla from other parts of Europe, and the total lack of any back haul cargo, it might be worthwhile for someone in say Britain to cut a deal with the junkyard and have a trucker haul them out for restoration. But that Discovery -- what a nice machine. Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Thu Dec 21 03:46:03 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 03:46:03 +0100 From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Subject: Range Rover lift/springs Yesterday Dee Brown asks about a proper spring, to give the Range a lift of 2". I just received four springs from EIBACH. I think the best you can get in germany. They lift the vehicle nearly 2"(5cm). As I am also looking for shockabsorbers, I even prefer Bilstein, because the Bilstein kit is made to fit the Eibach springs. The parts number ot the shocks are: Front B46-0243 rear: B46-0253. The steering dampers number (strongly recommended): B36-0245. Ciao Kurt From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Dec 20 22:12:17 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:12:17 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Whitworth - Info. BA is short for British Association according to my father-in-law’s 50 yr old engineering manual. BA threads: BA Bolt diam. Pitch Head 6 2.8mm 0.110in 0.53mm 0.020in 0.193in 4 3.6mm 0.142in 0.66mm 0.026in 0.248in 2 4.7mm 0.185in 0.81mm 0.031in 0.324in 0 6.0mm 0.236in 1.00mm 0.039in 0.412in Head size is hex across flats and round head diameter Above from B.S. 93:1919 and B.S. 57:1920 Note that for the bolt diameter and thread pitch the primary dimension is metric. And that was 75 years ago. BS and Whitworth hex sizes BS Whitworth Hex AF 3/16 1/8 .340 1/4 3/16 .445 5/16 1/4 .525 3/8 5/16 .600 7/16 3/8 .710 1/2 7/16 .820 9/16 1/2 .920 5/8 9/16 1.010 11/16 5/8 1.100 3/4 11/16 1.200 7/8 3/4 1.300 I can’t see any logical progression of head sizes but I’m sure it made sense to Mr. Whitworth. I believe that the threads are very different from the more usual Unified & SAE, with different thread pitches. The Series One Club offers a Whitworth rethreading tool for straightening bolt threads. RN & AB among others carry Whitworth/BS tools Snap-On also has Whitworth sockets, but not wrenches Hope the above is of help. David Cockey From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 20 22:56:12 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:12 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Lugnuts Robin wrote: >Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has he >been a bit shy about telling you all about it?.... Dixon, old chap, this is a truly *major award*. Do tell!!! Normally, you have to do something creative, like instantly create a new rear garage entrance or road-race angle grinders. Enquiring minds want to know.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Wed Dec 20 19:54:02 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 19:54:02 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: Re: wrenches >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody >else has seen or has these??? Regards Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 I believe these are very (suspisciuously?) like the "surface drive" sockets used by the auto manufacturers on assembly lines. They will engage and torque a fastner while the tool is contiuously spinning. They are a series of round "points". 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 20 22:56:06 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:06 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Breaking up is hard to do... WRT this thread on broken axles, all three of mine have also been at slow (or no) speed in the city. Curiously, in each instance, I was also wearing a three piece suit.... Anyway, two were pulling away from the parking place in front of my apartment in those days, and the other was in rush hour (creeping) traffic. Of course, I had the coveralls and spares in the back, though I never had the luck for them to break at the outer flange...and when they broke, they would always fracture and enlarge necessitating a complete diff disassembly. If one is prone to breaking axles, a nifty trick is to machine a groove near the outer splines just a shade smaller than the inner splines. That way, it'll break out where you can grab out the broken stub with pliers and slap in new one. BTW, broken (long) axles sharpened slightly (has anyone ever broken the short side??) make good, no-cost ground anchors, especially if you weld a little ring onto one end so you can link 'em. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 23:11:50 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:11:50 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Disco head lamp levelling I have seen two references to head lamp levelling in Discos. Both were probably for U.K. cars. There seems to be a switch and motors involved. What is it? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Thu Dec 21 08:23:40 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:23:40 GMT+200 From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Subject: Re: clutch & clunk (was: re:The Land Rover Own...) > > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > the theory. > I don't know if the sound is ok, bFrom Thu Dec 21 4:33:05 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 4:33:05 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 16 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 16 Dec 95 09:58:57 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Plushmobiles In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. In fact some of the yuppies in my club are the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I suggest she get the facts. Yes they are diesels and that is one reason why they have the incredible wading abilities ( no electronics) As for the support they get on the event a competitor in the 94 event, Mac Barber, told me that aside from changing tires and cleaning fuel filters (very important on a diesel) the vehicle just kept going. He liked it so much that when he got back he bought one for himself. Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental insurance. I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job crossing Borneo that a Disco. Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love to have a coil-sprung, galvanized chassis 88 with a smuggled in Tdi or Isuzu 2.8 complete with snorkle so I could show some of the Georgia rednecks that 10 litre V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite. Obvioulsy I would take this vehicle some places the Disco does not go. Not because I don't think it would make it but becuase I have to drive it to work the next day. The disco has already surprised many of the rural residents of the GA hills with its ablility- Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it was built. Mark Ritter 94 Disco Yes, I do wave! From LAW142@aol.com Sat Dec 16 10:57:18 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:57:18 -0500 From: LAW142@aol.com Subject: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8 I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without having to pay a fortune. I'm also looking for a US based company that can build/make a roll cage for my SIIA SW with safari roof that will still allow me to put on a roof rack with rear ladder. Can any one help me? Karl Young II 69 Land Rover Series IIA 109 Station Wagon w/Safari Roof, RHD Austin, Texas From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:13:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:13:52 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Rangies With US V-8? In LRO Magazine I occasionally see blurbs about Rangies with Chevrolet 350 V-8 conversions, and I've heard of a Ford V-8 conversion too. Does anyone know anyone about these -- who makes the kits, whether they retain the RR transmission, etc.? Just curious. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Sat Dec 16 11:30:13 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:30:13 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: VIN/Chassis numbers Dear all, Another one for you. Just got some photos of a client's Rover we are going to do some work on. The weird thing, maybe not weird, but something I haven't seen is, the tag with the numbers on it is all in French. Is this what the tags looked like when sent to a French market? The Chassis number checks out to be LHD, export 109, as does the Rover, but I have not seen a French tag before. Any thoughts? Mike Smith, ECR From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote: >extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I >suggest she get the facts. >Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't >need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it >was built. Look, everyone, let's understand that the comments about "plushmobile" and the like are meant to be taken in jest. Don't take them seriously and get offended. Think of them as being accompanied by a dig in the ribs and a hearty chortle. Clearly people can like both Series vehicles and Rangies/Discos -- indeed, many on this list own both (and I aspire to.) But the Series drivers can poke fun at the yuppie Disco drivers wailing over espresso spills and noisy carphones, and the Disco owners can laugh at the Series owners wearing earplugs, freezing in the winter, and broiling in the summer. (There, now I've offended everyone.) It's all in fun, folks. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 09:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:31:41 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas Actually the '95s have a several second delay as well. Mine hasn't had the buzzing that Bob talks about though. Bob's radio may just be getting a broadcast from Radio Free Lucas. Cheers! John At 08:08 15.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com From lopezba@atnet.at Sat Dec 16 20:27:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:27:52 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Hardtop insulation David Bobeck wrote: >>Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the >>tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] >handy with a needle and thread. >Cheers >Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock in the UK, although I do not have their latest ad here at the moment. I seem to remember some name like PG Absorbent Headliner, so it may not be the original LR product but something made by Procter & Gamble. As far as I know these headliners are on back order though, and you may have to wait until the beginning of April. They also advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small valves for the four corners of the roof. These will allow the moisture that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle down on the outside of the LR without letting water in. Unfortunately they are not marked really well and installation is by trial and error unless you have very keen eyesight, since the only difference between the inside and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the outside. I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for. Their fax number is (UK) 1543 505 408. For a drier drive Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From KKelly6788@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:06:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:06:59 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood at times) during the Camel Trophy trials. I asked a couple of the guys from LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a few letters. Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change their mind. Kevin Kelly From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:49:06 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:49:06 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Vehicle ID Number system does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ?? the number I have has a total of 9 digits and is configured as such ... 2 numbers , one letter, 6 numbers. Anybody have a clue?? thanks Steve Bradke From ericz@cloud9.net Sat Dec 16 13:11:32 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:11:32 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Yuppies and other sources of unrest. Please, don't go crazy about the joking that goes around this list regarding Series Rovers versus the newer models. Most everything said here is in jest, or at very least in envy. What really counts is whether or not you appreciate the vehicle for what it is: the worlds toughest and most versatile off-road vehicle. Of course, there is an abundance of gadgetry on the newer vehicles (disco, RR, even Defender) but look at the market. We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other groups. As a result, the new models have the conveniences and niceties that such a market requires. This is not to say that people who buy newer rovers are in someway inferior. For the most part, people buying the newer rovers are just different people from series owners. All rover owners have the responsibility to make each other feel welcome based on the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle they're sitting in. There is a series owner in every disco owner and vice-versa. OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the rover community. Eric (a confirmed series owner who still waves to discos and RRs in hope) From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:12:42 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:42 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Trailers I still can't get over the guy who put 15 sheets of 3/4 particle board on th e rack. One good right hander and... I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story would be appreciated. Also wonder about the apparently PTO-driven trailer pictured in the literature. Anybody have one of these? what a hoot! From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:25:24 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:25:24 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: To those who are about to die,we salute you.. Parts that is. Thanks to all for their advice during the recent transmission crisis. (RN, expect a call from my mechanic!) Much to our chagrin, the gearbox expired. It is now on the table experiencing open heart surgery ($$$$) On the bright side, it will be ready for another 30 years of faithful service. "All my troubles are Rover" Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:38 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:38 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Popular Science And you know what else, Bob? They tell me the room service on the Camel Trophy is terrible. The Connaught Hotel has nothing to worry about. Sniff. John At 10:36 15.12.95 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>From: John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com] [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > \_/ \_/ N7UMU >with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:46 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:46 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles At 21:59 15.12.95 -0600, Soren Vels Christensen wrote: >I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush >pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all >that. These are the most minor of complaints, true, but Land Rover claims to build top quality vehicles in every regard. The off-road capabilities of Discoveries are only part of the equation. Land Rover has also seen fit to appoint NAS Discos with power steering, power anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, stereos with cassette players (optionally also CD players), leather upholstery, electric sunroofs (optionally), and carpeting. If Land Rover can't get these items right, then it shouldn't be in the plush business. As the saying goes, "A job worth doing is worth doing well." Cheers! John From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:28 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Popular Science Camel Trophy Discoveries are diesel so they aren't as electronically fragile as the V8i in NAS Discos, but I would venture to guess that an added feature of the diesel is that it has almost twice the gas mileage of the V8i. That's got to be especially important on a 1,000 mile trek where the nearest gas station is who knows where. Let's talk about plushness and its darker yuppie submessage, shall we? A Discovery can't clear the same rocks that a Series can. There are things I can do when I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans ("real" peoples clothes) that I can't do when I'm wearing a suit (yuppie garb) because suits are more confining. Nevertheless it's still my god-like physique in both. Many LROs have expounded on the off-road capabilities of the Discovery. It is a Land Rover from its logo to Lucas electricals. Oh yes, and no one forced me to buy a Discovery. I bought one of my own free will. Does that make me a yuppie? While I hate all that the label implies (selfishness. Conspicuous, graceless consumption. Snobbery), I will leave it to those who know me to decide whether or not the label fits. Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 10:19 15.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" >writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was >because Rover insisted that they use them. Discos are cheaper for them to build >& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos. They probably started >supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that >plushmobiles can go offroad too. With the kind of support the Camel Trophy cars >get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus. Mind you it may be a year or >more slower making it to the finish than the Discos. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] >I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they >still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain. Mind you I'm >not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover that >doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without losing >the ground effects baffeling and that low side step. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] >don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice. >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:31:04 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:31:04 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Nice lightweight for sale I just received my January 96 Land Rover World. in the classifieds at the back on page 125 is one of the nicest s3 lightweights in good condition for sale that I have seen for a while. The vehcile is complete with cam nets et al and the guy only wants POUNDS UK 2950!! I'll be checking my lottery ticket in the am .... Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:24:02 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:24:02 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News Just when you thought it was safe...... Matchbox Collectibles have come out with a new version of their series one fire truck with trailer in the "Works Fire Service" livery. The new version is diffreent only by the following:- Decal gone from door, Wheels now chromed intsead of red If you ask me it does not look as good as the original but I"ll be buying it anyway.... I found another one of the NASA 90 and trailers with the blue wheels today, again in a ZEllers store. If you would like to be included in a toy / model digest email me direct. Rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 16 17:14:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:14:28 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? In message <199512162007.PAA15069@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? > I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there > was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. I've heard 2 conflicting rumors about the 300 Tdi. The first is that LRNA got it past US DOT/EPA, but doesn't think that there is a market in the US for diesel engines. The other is that the engine is designed to meet European specs and that so far LRNA has been unable to get the engine through California Smog tests. Since, according to rumor, there is a huge EPA fine to bring a vehicle that cannot pass emmissions for all 50 states, LRNA gave up. I have yet to find anyone who can give a definite answer. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Russell Burns Sat Dec 16 17:21:47 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 17:21:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Disco's Had a chance last weekend to brake one of those new yuppie mobiles. I happen to be out on the left coast when my good friend Raj picked up his new disco. Green thing with leather seats, cd changer, dual sunroofs, built in expressio machine ect.. ect. The first plan was to go to holister hills and see the camel trials. But it seems that LRNA took over the park. All we could do is sit outside the gate and form a parade with some other Rover owners. After giving up on the trails, we headed south to another orv place Clear creek. We did manage to get the disco temporarly detained on a hill. I was explaining the benifits of having a shovel and other like tools as we ascended this steep hill. We got to a ripply section and Raj decided to slow down. With the loss of momentium we coulds not progress any futher up the hill. I explained to Raj that we needed to back down the hill. As there was a 4 foot deep rut on the passenger side I told him I would watch my side. Sticking my head out the window I was announcing the distance in feet between the rut and his new truck. We started at three feet from the rut, and proceded to back down the hill We then were 4 feet, and 5 feet from the rut when Raj slamed on the brakes and announced that he backed into a tree. So I got out and looked. The tree was the least of our worries. It seems that he was following a rut on the drivers side, and right after the "bush" it got progressively deeper. At we sat, the rear diff was scraping the ground. I had Raj get out of the car to take a look, and he promply started sliding down the hill. (it was almost too steep to walk up) I tried letting some air out of the tires for better traction, but I still could not get enought to drive up the hill and take a better cut. Well out came the jack, jacked up the rear tire. Dragged trees, rocks,small kids etc.. and filled in the rut. After chipping at the sides of the ruts with the jack handles, I think Raj realized the benifits of a shovel. After about 9 cu yards of fill I was able to back the yuppie mobile down the hill. Raj then explored some of the other trails in the park. A lot of trails had overhanging bush, and would scrape the Disco. I kept muttering that this was a Land-Rover polish job, but know one caught the humor.... Needless to say, when we were done there were a number of minor (major) scratches in the clear coat. Raj was quite upset about this kept muttering about ruining the truck with less than 500 mile on it. But actually I think he told his fiance that this was going to be her truck, and was afraid to face the wrath of the little women. At dinner I explained that if the Land-Rover polish did not suit him, you could buff out the clear coat and it would look like new. He clearly was an unbeliver, but his up comming marriage gave him little choice.Some how Sunday he found some one with a buffer who polished the Disco, allowing him to visit his fiance safely sunday nite. Talking to him latter that week, he said he was heading down to holister hills to do some more offroading. I replied "great, a few more times and you won,t even have ot bother with the wax and polish jobs...." Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 One of those damn yuppie types (mistakes can happen to the best of us) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sat Dec 16 17:59:21 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:59:21 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Hardtop Insulation Peter Hirsh writes: :Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock... They also :advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small :valves for the four corners of the roof. These will allow the moisture :that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle :down on the outside of the LR without letting water in. Unfortunately :they are not marked really well... the only difference between the inside :and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the :outside. I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for. Let's see, FO and OL?? FO, OL?? FO-OL? Could it be FOOL! :) Holiday Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Danny Phillips Thu Dec 21 9:37:53 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 9:37:53 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Gearbox treatments. Hi chaps, has anyone ever treated a landie with that slick 50 gearbox treatment i was thinking of doing both the disco and my series 2a. should i rush to do it or should i run away from it ? any thoughts gratefully received. cheers danny p.s. have a great xmas everyone. From Tom Stevenson Thu Dec 21 11:40:32 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:40:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Metrinch spanners I have a set of Metrinch spanners which work very well. They move the nut from its flats, not the corners, so they will undo rounded off nuts easily. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Vel Natarajan Thu Dec 21 05:57:43 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:57:43 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be >done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal: Ah. I don't know what I was thinking. I forgot that the simplicity and practicality of the LR also included body panels. :-) >Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working. >Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the >tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. I don't have much experience w/ rivets, so please bear with me while I ask some more basic questions... Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same? I've only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the center. How are the round head ones different to replace? I think the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer the original look of them. >I don't know about your area but I take small stuff for galvanizing to a >place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the >size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do >as a side job. I thought I'd do that while I'm here in the UK where replacement parts are cheaper and plentiful. (I also need to replace the left rear end panel due to a good sized dent/hole from the PO.) >Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. I agree. I'd rather have mine rusty and original than painted and tacky. I was being only half serious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-566-323 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 12:18:06 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:18:06 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Handbrake Drums >. >On another note I spotted a familiar name (and email address) in the >LRO international magazine. One of the 'Reader's Tips' on the >'Drivetrain' page. A handy tip from our very own M.J.Rooth. Fame at >last Mike!! I'll come round with the hat later....... Merry Christmas All Mike Rooth From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 21 07:42:25 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:42:25 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Power, power, power I want more power. Let's see, I've got everybody to put in carriage returns. What next? Mmmmm. I know! >From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink. Thank you, Sgt. A.Nally-Retentive LRO Submissions Police Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:12:57 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:12:57 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Solid Rivets I have replaced several original solid rivets on my Series II with genuine L-R solid rivets, available (at lest a couple of years ago) from Rovers North. The correct way to remove the old ones, as any aviation metalsmith will tell you, is to drill them out from the head side. Drill size should match the rivet shank (i.e., same as the hole in the sheet metal the rivet goes through). Before putting drill bit to rivet head, centerpunch the head to create an easy starting point. Swivel the drill like a waist gunner in a B-17 if necessary to keep the tip of the bit headed down the centerline of the rivet as go drill. In theory, drill only far enough to penetrate completely through the head. If you've done it right, the head will pop off and ride up the drill bit. Then use a drift to punch out the remainder. If you insist on chiseling off the head, drill the head as described above first, and it'll pop off really easily. Since Series L-R hole tolerances are not what they are in Phantoms or even P-47s, you may need to drill all the way through, because the shank expanded to fill an oversize or out-of-round hole. Reinstalling new solid rivets is not hard if you have the feel of using a pneumatic gun. Try to get one with a pressure adjustment. If you're not used to it, it can get away from you quite easily and you could take out an unlucky bystander. They can be hammered by hand, but once you've gotten the hang of the air tool, it's too much fun to go back to primitive methods. Might be worth a trip to the local general aviation field to talk to an airframe mechanic. Drilling from the tail side can be messy because rivets frequently lose their symmetry about the centerline on that end, tending to lean over to one side on a regular basis. After all, they were not installed in Solihull by guys who were building Vulcan bombers during the weekend. I've long contemplated separating the galvanized gutter from the aluminum sheet roof panel of my 109, as part of the perpetual restoration, for regalvanizing. I assume the reattachment will be with aluminum (solid) aircraft rivets rather than the original (steel?) hollow-tails. There are so many of them, strength is not a worry, even for gutter-mounted expedition racks. Regards, Hank "We don't need no stinkin' Cherry-Max" Lapa From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:16:24 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:16:24 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Rancho Sale - Std vs HD??? I'm about convinced to run out and get four for my 109. Anyone with wisdom regarding standard vs heavy-duty? A long time ago, a voice at RN told me that HD were overkill, probably referring to "Genuine." Thanks in advance, Hank From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 21 08:25:14 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:25:14 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Power, power, power Steve Reddock wants control... >From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink. REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM PS. This message has nothing to do with changing brake parts... Dave"Here's Johnny"Bobeck From Stuart Williams Thu Dec 21 08:24:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:24:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: News from the front lines ... Thanks to Rick Grant for an interesting look into Bosnian public transportation in his posting from Wed, 20 Dec 1995. Not bad performance for a plushmobile, eh? > I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting > stuck. With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily charge > off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any > vehicle blocking the way. Many times the snow was rolling up over the > bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on. Derogatory bits about armored Defender performance in similar conditions deleted ... ;^) Stuart Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 21 08:51:52 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:51:52 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: snow -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I have just now come in from plowing 20 inches of snow, which my 65 88 seems to enjoy as much as I do. I was thinking that those of you on the East coast who have sore backs from shoveling are missing a bet by not fitting a plow. You too can look forward to snowstorms... though I've yet to see a RR or Disco pushing snow. Oh yeah, by the way, I just happen to have a Fisher plow rig to spare..ahem.. Anyhow, you'll have to excuse me as I'm going out to fire up the sauna. These Maine winters are hell! From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 21 06:00:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 06:00:11 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement At 15:07 20.12.95 EST, Tom Des Jardins wrote: >(Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 >disc yuppie changer... You mean yuppies aren't at least housebroken? Figures. Cheers! John '95 Discovery From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 21 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 21 Dec 95 8:21:29 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? THis is beginning to frustrate me. The transmission on my 109 leaks a pint of oil every week or two. Most of it is coating the crossmember under the bellhousing, but there's nothing coming from the wading plug hole - i plugged it then removed the plug and it's bone-dry. I can't for the life of me figure out where it's leaking from - any suggestions on tracing the leak before Lotus fires me for doing an Exxon Valdez in the parking garage? More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast? Alan From Sanjay Prasad Thu Dec 21 09:33:49 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:33:49 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Winter in a Range Rover I am looking forward to spending my first winter in New England with my '90 Range Rover. Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime, such as starting, etc, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions for what to do to avoid them? Sanjay Prasad '90 Range Rover Boston, Massachusetts U.S.A. e-mail: prasad@ba-iplaw.com From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 21 08:29:34 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:29:34 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing Val wrote: > Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap. I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black (I donno, there is something about black spray paint that just *talks* to me...). OTOH, since I'm going to be taking the whole thing apart, I might as well have them re-galvanized, too. My $.02 Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "Parts is Parts" From Brad Taylor Thu Dec 21 07:33:44 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 07:33:44 MST From: Brad Taylor Subject: disco CD changer Is there any experiance fitting an after-market CD changer to a disco? Is there some special magic in the Land Rover CD changer which makes it the only option? Brad From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 21 08:41:43 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:41:43 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton >Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer No! I want 'em! :-) Tim --- tim harincar, aka the Scavenger harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Donald Abbot Thu Dec 21 17:01:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:01:11 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Donald Abbot Subject: Re: Whit On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Wouter de Waal wrote in response to Mike: > So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four > spanners or one shifter? You mean a Free State micrometer? Donald From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:03:07 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:03:07 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? How about the oil seals at front/rear of the transfer case? Oil leaks out of the main 'box into the transfer case,then out of the transfer case back to nature,thoughtfully rust proofing the X-member on the way.Nothing goes to waste.Clever people at Land Rover,arent they? Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:29:10 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:29:10 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing >> Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? >No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did >that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap. >I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black What I did was to use some matt grey zinc rich primer,brushed on.They sometimes call it cold galvanisation paint.Looks quite nice,IMO. Apart from the rusty cappings,some twerp had painted round the windshield with *copper* coloured paint! I did this two-three years ago,the Rover lives outside,due to the two unfortunate circumstances of having an old wooden floored garage,and a certain reluctance to qualify for the Lugnut Award,by being the first bloke ever to put his Land Rover through the *floor* of a garage.(Through the back wall is old stuff,its been done before).Anyway,the grey paint is still OK. Cheers Mike Rooth From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Dec 21 10:40:21 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:40:21 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Phoenix You wrote "Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix weather in the dead of summer? After all, he'd have to .sig his messages with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ..." Bummer... today was the first day that I've put on long pants since moving here. :-( BTW: 125 degrees is hot no matter how low the humidity. The worst day this summer was 123! And, the way I look at it, it's four months of hell for 8 months of bliss! The summers also keeps everyone else from moving here too! And to make it worse, the off-roading is superb! Have a Merry Christmas! Gerry "only up to 62 today" Elam From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Thu Dec 21 10:48:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:48:00 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Series I Dear all, Mark Talbot asked about Series I's. The SI grew from 80" to 86" in 1953. Taking off your FWHubs? Why? The hubs are a great thing that add versatility to your Rover. Really, how many people have broken a half shaft, on a hill, with the hubs disengaged, then at the same time had your brakes totally fail, so you roll down and hit someone! Isn't that sort of over thinking the possibilities. Fuel mileage, top speed, less wear and tear on the tires, easier streering, on and off road versatility, listen to your fellow digest contributors, they are giving you good advice. Mike Smith, ECR From "Craig R. Jett" Thu Dec 21 10:55:44 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:55:44 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: Wading the Disco In response to a recent thread I posted some pictures at http://www.voicenet.com/~cjett/interest.html. As you will see, my 95 Disco swam through water 3/4 of the way up the door. Not a cough or any other protest from the Disco. Also not a drop of water inside. By the way, this was on a rally sponsered by Cherry Hill Imports of NJ, USA. Just thought some you might be interested. Craig Jett 95 Alpine White Discovery I wave to everyone, every car that I pass, just so no one will feel left out. I also take it off road whenever possible! From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:35:25 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:35:25 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >>>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton >>Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer >No! I want 'em! :-) I suppose the next best offer in this auction is when someone asks Trevor to pay *them* to take 'em off his hands........ Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 16:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:36:59 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Whit >> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four >> spanners or one shifter? >You mean a Free State micrometer? Or a Yorkshire Slide Rule. Mike Rooth From 21 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 21 Dec 95 12:15:21 EST From: Subject: Off road contest d90 v disco Lzeltzer asked about the off road comparison between the d90 and discovery back in Sept. (or was it October) i attended the bsroa fall off road meet in the Berkshire's (part of western mass) with my (auto)Discovery. 2 other Discovery owners attended, a few series and a swarm of d90s. As amazing as the discovery is it is not as good as NAS D90. 1: the tires (BFG) given the vehicle an inch or so extra ground clearance (regular uk 90s don't have this set up therefore no advantage but I hear that it is an option over there). this has to help in extreme conditions but wasn't an issue (very dry conditions) during the weekend. 2: shorter wheelbase on the D90. Seven inches may not sound like much but it makes a bit difference in a forest. On one particular spot when a big rock including a sharp left turn needed to be negotiated, while everyone made it up ok, but the Discos all clonked the rear bumper area (no damage seen) as the longer wheelbase forces the rear wheel to inscribe a smaller circle while turning on a disco than a 90. 3: the difference in departure angles adds to this problem. Solution to these problems would be taking a wider turn. but it sure was tight at times in the front making sure that the trees and the front fender (english=wing) did not become aquainted. Made it down with a clonk, but not before the vehicle demonstrated an excellent crossaxle with a front left wheel waving in the air, the rear left wheel getting awful close to the underseal with the rear right waving too I am told. It sure makes for a beautiful video shot. So the D90 is better off road make no mistake. But the Discovery is extremely competent(i lost count of the times I thought I couldn't do that - but did). regards chris browne 95 disco (why has my rear door stopped squeaking/my stereo buzzes when i turn it on/my steering wheel squeaks) Brit in Boston great snow around here in last couple of days From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Thu Dec 21 09:37:46 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:37:46 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma The big difference seems to be clearance and attitude. The D90 just has a lot more clearance. Offroad on tight trails it makes a big difference. Have also noticed that (please, no flames, this is a generalization and I'm know there are exceptions, but this has been holding true most part) that Disco owners aren't nearly as willing to risk dents as D90 owners. In fact most of the D90 owners I know have dings and dents due to off road driving. It is a matter of degree. I'd guess that Discos will handle 95%+ of off road trails with the same degree of aplomb that D90s do. On the other hand, "serious" offroaders tend to seek out those 5% of the trails other vehicles have trouble with and spend their time there. One approach you might consider would be to buy a Disco and drive it offroad. Where you find deficiencies in its performace you can correct them with aftermarket accessories. You'll still have the comfort of a Discovery but with the right stuff you'll end up better off road then a stock D90. (AirLockers, bigger more aggressive tires, skid plates, winch, side sill protection would be on the top of my list. After, basic safety stuff of course.) The downside is that the window of opportunity on obtaining D90s is small. If money is no object I'd buy the D90 SW and see how it works. If you don't like it you can sell it (to me :) ) and pick up a Disco. The reverse is likely to be impossible or significantly harder. In general I've found driver attitude and skill more important than the LR being driven. Tires and lockers seem to make the most difference after that. Clearance then becomes key. The D90 has much more aggressive tires and much more clearance then the Disco. The mystery as to why neither has factory lockers may never be solved....... -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Dec 21 09:44:45 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:44:45 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma In message <199512201329.IAA05318@butler.uk.stratus.com> Lee Zeltzer writes: ; ; > Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a > better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? ; I think which car is better depends upon where you drive. Both cars will probably do just as well in open offroading. The Disco will give you better misquito protection and will allow yo to drive in air conditioned comfort out of the dust while listening to your favorate CDs. But if you head out to places where the mud is deep or your crawling over rocks, the D90 is the best of the breed hands down. According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders they sell. Mostly men purchase Discos. But I will have to admit a lot more men then women own series Land Rovers. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Dec 21 09:17:10 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:17:10 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES In message <199512200215.VAA04486@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: > HEY Y'ALL, > Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco >; fitting a series Rover.Well I talked to my local Land Rover dealer (Jax FL) > and > he said that all of the Discos come with aluminum wheels.Does anyone know of ; other dealers that would be willing to ship some.Also what size tires are > people ; using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. Last time I looked the spare wheel was steel. Go back to your local Disco dealer and ask to look at a spare tyre (ie have them take the cover off the spare on one of the cars). I have a set of these 7 inch wide black wheels on my 109. They fit nicely. I'm running 265/70/16 B F Goodrich Mud Terrains on my 109. Fits nicely. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 21 12:38:33 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:38:33 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? Alan, I'd find a place that steam cleans and get it clean as possible then keep a close eye on it to see what gets dirty. I've seen the drain plugs leak if the washers are totally crushed. > More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast? The easiest way to fix LR oil leaks is to sell it, although I wouldn't suggest doing that. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 21 13:49:38 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:49:38 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: snow -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Thursday, 21-Dec-95 09:22 AM > From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus \ Internet: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Subject: Re: snow > What' it take to fit a plow to a Rover? I was thinking of my 109.....but I've > heard that this can cause real chassis problems. > Info, please? > ajr > To: Ron Franklin \ Internet: (oldhaven@biddeford.com) -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Fit up isn't too bad if you have a plow rig that was designed for a Rover originally. That way all the parts fit within reason, and you don't have to be anything but hand tool proficient. Adapting a rig designed for a Jeep or other small 4wd is also possible if you can cut and weld, and I've done it, but better to trust the engineers at Fisher, and try to locate a used Rover setup. Be sure to get all the parts, even if the PO doesn't want to do the work to remove them from his vehicle. The important parts are the ones unique to the Rover, and include things you don"t normally think of like an add-on or double pulley to drive the Hydraulics, the mounting fixture for the Hydraulic pump, and all the parts and pieces which mount the operating cables to the valve and the dashboard. If everything is there, and working, you should be able to set yourself up for plowing in a day, assuming you've had the good sense to do this in September, and aren't working in icewater or a snowdrift. After the initial installation, it takes about an hour in the fall and again in the spring to put on or remove the pieces you will or won't need for the next 6 months( assuming you get that much winter). You can fit the actual plow in about five minutes, depending on your back condition for the last little alignment of the plow to the frame. Fisher plows, with which I am most familiar, come in a couple of different varieties for LR's. One has all the cylinders attached to the plow itself, and the other leaves the lifting cylinder attached to the vehicle when the plow is removed. They both work well, as I have used both, though I prefer the former, since it leaves less stuff on the vehicle in the off season. The plow frame under the vehicle reduces ground clearance drastically, but can be removed fairly easily for the summer, as mentioned above, along with the drive belt for the hyd. pump. Both of these types are designed so that a Koenig winch can still be mounted, and I recommend some sort of winch since you will undoubtedly bury youself in a drift several times a season. As for wear and tear, if you are going to plow for a living, get yourself a big Ford, and don't worry if it destroys itself in 4 or 5 years. I plow 4 or 500 feet of driveway from 10 to 20 times a year. I'm not in a hurry, and take my time and enjoy it. The 88 I use was originally fitted with the plow in 1965, and the man I bought it from had used it every winter for plowing. The original frame is still in very good shape, though I had to repair a crack which developed, In believe, by allowing the plow frame to get loose, allowing it to move around and stress the Rover frame. I would definitely not put a plow on a questionable frame because it will put a strain on it. Wear on the clutch, steering and suspension will be more than normal, but what are these things for, sitting in the garage, or out getting used? You will need to replace your front springs with the hd type eventually, but might as well use up the ones already on. I personally find the 88 handier for plowing since it will get into and out of tighter places. But I'm sure a 109 would do alright if you are patient and don't have too many twists in your drive. So, if your LR already has a scratch or two, and you are the type who can avoid hitting any thing too big too fast because you are not in a hurry, I'd say put on a plow and have a good time. From Easton Trevor Thu Dec 21 13:55:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:55:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Wrenches Many years ago (about 30) I encountered a set of spanners from France which worked by driving on the face of the hex rather than the corner. These I see now available from Snap On in the form of their "Flank Drive". They come as open, box and socket versions and really are a superior method of turning nuts. They will even successfully remove nuts that have been abused and have practically no corners left. Trouble is the're so good that in the small sizes its very easy to shear bolts by overtightening them. The configuration means that they will fit a large variety of sizes not just the AF size they were made for. Unfortunately coming from Snap-On they are pricy but worth it in the long run. (what price skinned knuckles?) Trevor Easton From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 21 13:59:41 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:59:41 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90 v.s. Disco Hi all, Chris Browne is right I was also at the BSROA fall event and the Down East Rally in Maine. D90's definitely have the advantage when the trail gets tight, tough, and nasty. In Maine the Disco's and Rangie's were bottoming out in the deep mud and rock trail, and having a time climbing this one steep, slippery, very rutted hill. When our turn came I was nervous after hearing vehicles in front of us bashing things underneath. I had just bought the LR in May and didn't know it's full potential yet. The D90 with the BFG M/T's went right up! I couldn't believe it! I have traveled some trails where I live in western Mass. that were all large rocks. With careful wheel placement, the extra clearance, better aproach and departure angles the D90 made it easily. Truly amazing! I bought my D90 for just this reason I wanted the best performing off-road vehicle I could get my hands on. With that said I have to admit that when I saw where the Disco's and Rangie's went I was truly surprised. The D90 is a more capable off-roader but the difference was no where as great as I would have thought! Happy Holidays! Barnett Childress 95 D90 From russ burns Thu Dec 21 11:06:45 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:06:45 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma I have driven both off road. If you will include a 91 R-Rover as an old disco. I think the Disco/R-ROver with an auto is the best off-road vehicle I have driven. The Auto trans makes a joke out of rock crawling. The ability to downshift on the fly takes all the fun out of climbing hills. The longer wheelbase seems to make hill climbing easier. The engine braking in low low is adequate. I will admit the 2 inches less of ground clearance will get you stuck in the mud a little sooner, and the trailer hitch tends to drag on some of those rock ledges, and of course you have to make a couple of cuts to get around trees you can't run over. But is the same breath I will admit I would rather be driving the D-90 instead of the R-Rover. No it is not the fear of denting the poor thing (I have a dent in every fender), but the those flat fenders are a great place to fix lunch on, and your beer does not slide off..... I find it interesting 5/8 of the D-90 buyers are women. Maybe that explains why my wife is not complaining about the D-90 SW I am getting here. She said to surprise her.... Russ Burns 91 R-ROver 94 D-90 At 09:44 AM 12/21/95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders >they sell. Mostly men purchase Discos. But I will have to admit a lot more men >then women own series Land Rovers. >TeriAnn [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From William Owen Thu Dec 21 14:45:20 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:45:20 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Disco v. RR classic On the subject of comparisons, how do those who have experienced both off-road think the old RR compares to the Disco. It seems they would be similar except for maybe approach/ departure angles and the center diff. Of course the old RR's smaller 205 tires probably hinder it too. (can you upgrade to 235 or so without problems?) Any thoughts? Still searching for MY 89 Range Rover, William From Sanna@aol.com Thu Dec 21 15:53:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:53:47 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover >>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime My '89 RR starts like a champ in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago - still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that temperature. The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few miles and the normally supple suspension seems a bit hard & brittle. My only problem with Annabelle is the heater temp. It's sort of like my old Volvo's A/C. If you're going on a trip it'll get the car comfortable, but forget comfort on the short haul around town. So, here's a question for all of you out there in Range Roverland: Is there a thermostat swap that would cure my woes (and frozen toes)? Will the typical vanilla-flavored US auto store variety work in a RR or do I need something "British"? With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the scale. Oh yes, other cold weather problems inherant to RRs is the VERY poor design of the rear window latch. It sits inside a little cup that is faced up, so it collects & freezes any moisture that's around. Lock deicer should be standard issue for cold-weather RRs. Tony From Sanna@aol.com Thu Dec 21 15:55:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:55:47 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover (#2) >>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime More.... If you have front or rear lamp gaurds, these are great for collecting snow and covering the lights. From William Owen Thu Dec 21 15:01:36 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:01:36 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Consumer Reports hits Disco again Did anyone see CR's latest shot at the Disco. In a follow up to it's not so great review, CR now questions the off road ability of the disco, the only thing it got credit for in the first report. They said the steering components (?) are too low and exposed. Their disco's steering was damaged when they hit a hole on a dirt road. Basically they told readers not to buy a disco for its off rd ability. I wonder what would have happened to an explorer/Jeep GC on the same hole and if CR's driver knows dip about driving off rd. The shame is that some people who really want a capable off rd vehicle are going to be influenced away from one of the best on the market by this report. On the bright side, less demand means lower prices for me :) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 21 14:01:04 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:01:04 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again I wouldn't worry about the impact "Consumer Reports" has on people looking for an "off-road" vehicle. Mainly because it's the LAST place they'd look for information on off-road capabilities. To date, "Consumer Reports" is the only negative report on the Discovery I've seen. All others are fair and accurate in their reviews. OTOH, if you are looking for a 4WD mall-wagon, the CR is probably a reasonable source of info. ---------- From Russell U Wilson Thu Dec 21 17:30:48 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: 1970 light wht for sale in Pa. For anyone interested in a vehicle that is in such a condition that it could place in any British Car show you'd want to take it to drop me a note for more information. This Rover is in close to mint condition and is presently in a garage in the Pittsburgh area. The owner is a friend and I am acting as the seller because of his hectic schedule. Russ 67' 88 "The Pig" From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Dec 21 18:46:38 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:46:38 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette #2 >Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same? I've >only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the >center. How are the round head ones different to replace? I think >the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer >the original look of them. How many friends do you have? I ask this because it will sway your decision. Pop rivets...one man job. "Round head" rivets...two man job. Pop rivets are available with the blind end either 'open' or 'closed'. Not surprisingly, open end rivets are more widely available as they are cheaper. Closed end rivets are supposed to be water resistant as they effectively seal up the hole. In either case, they're easier to use than the "old fashioned' round head rivets on the Rover because they use a special tool and install from the outside. Us uppity Series Rover owners always use closed pop rivets, keeps out the elements! If you insist on the real thing you'll need the help of another pair of hands to "back" the rivet head as you round it over on the inside (these contortions are always amusing to your helper). There are special tools that fit the particular size rivet you are assaulting. A capable hardware person should know what you're talking about. A word about galvanic corrosion: be sure to use like metals when using fasteners. Steel rivets (or any fastener) in aluminum is a no-no as the combination of moisture and electrons eat the contacting surfaces into oblivion.I'd splurge and buy the official Rover Rivets because the engineers have spec'ed the rivets to take this phenomenon into account. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Dec 21 18:59:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:59:11 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again CR staffers are paid to figure out the WRONG way to do everything. They succeed in spades. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Thu Dec 21 20:08:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:08:47 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover >in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago - >still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that >temperature. The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few >miles When I replaced my steering pump, I changed to Amsoil synthetic ATF in the power steering system. This eliminated the cold weather sluggishness completely. > With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of >the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the >scale. Sounds like you have cooling system problems. My 88 RR runs just below half scale winter or summer under most all conditions. I have gone through 3 temp guage sender units though. If you're still running the factory thermostat, you should first try replacing it. Cheers, Randall From David Place Thu Dec 21 21:35:21 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 21:35:21 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Gearbox treatments. I use Slick 50 in my IIA in the gearbox, the difs, the main sump and the balls mixed with grease. It really works well even at cold temps. What I noticed most is the reduction in noise once the stuff had a few minutes to circulate around. It has a good gling property that seems to help the engine on start up so we don't get as much lifter rattle before the pump comes up to pressure. Go ahead and use it Danny, it seems to work great. Dave VE4PN From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 21 22:58:18 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 22:58:18 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightweight for sale in PA Would someone kindly send me the posting on the 1970 lightweight for Sale in PA ...I deleted it by mistake..Thanks Steve Bradke 72 s lll 88 From jpappa01@interserv.com Thu Dec 21 20:32:04 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:32:04 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: A Good Wish To all LROs: I sincerely wish every LRO anywhere the happiest of holidays and a great 1996! I've enjoyed reading the list every night since I went on-line. Even when I trudge up to my little escape over the garage at 11PM, I read the list before working on the newsletter and the inevitable passing out on top of the keyboard. The n-key rollover finally wakes me up with its chirping! 1995 was an exciting world in the LR world. 1996 will continue theFrom rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Dec 21 23:32:40 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 23:32:40 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Rick Grant Ottawa please read this Would Rick Grant of Ottawa please contact me . Thank you Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Dec 21 23:31:33 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 23:31:33 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Dixons follies Dont worry folks, I'm in the process of getting from Ted Rose (non netter) all the info on Dixons award. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 22 7:37:09 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 7:37:09 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Missing Rover/Happy Holidays Just wanted to wish everyone Happy Holidays & enjoy your Rovers! My D90 is still at RN, been there sense 12/16/95. There tracking down and fixing a very strange diff/ARB problem I've been having. Should be getting it back soon but unfortunately probably not before Christmas. I really enjoy reading the list every morning with my coffee. What a great way to start the day, and share information with the only other people out there that understand what it's like to be a LRO. Plus lots of great ideas on customizing, accessories, Etc.! I hope to have a chance to possibly meet some of you in the coming new year, see your Rover's, and get in some great off-roading together! P.S. It's okay, I won't snicker if you drive a different LR model than me! (Early morning attempt at humor) ROVER'S RULE THE BACK COUNTRY!! Enjoy & best wishes to all, Barnett Missing my Rover, especially in all this snow! Childress From Easton Trevor Fri Dec 22 07:46:00 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:46:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Gearbox Additives Danny Philips writes "Has anyone used Slick 50 gearbox treatment?" I used this on Miss Golightly and have been pleased with the results. Transmission seems quieter and smoother. The axle once went 12 miles without oil when one of the ring gear bolts blew a hole in the casing and there were no signs of damage except for the bits of bolt. This happened some miles after a broken halfshaft (see earlier thread on halfshafts and ring gear bolts). The only problem I've noticed is due to the easy turning of the gearbox first always engages with a clash unless I use third syncro to stop the spin before trying for first. YMMV Trevor Easton From Brian Neill Tiedemann Sat Dec 23 01:24:32 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 01:24:32 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: still alive Hello all, I have not disappeared, well not completely anyway. Many things have kept me from the keyboard since uni "holidays" started. My "holiday" so far has been working full time and non stop things to do outside business hours... Some of the more interesting ones for Rover watchers are: Salisbury rear end from late 110 county obtained and most of the way converted to suit bolting a Range Rover on top of it. Currently fiddling with bits of locker and redesigning a little. Once the rest of the lock is complete, the whole lot will be installed. PTO (winch drive type) to suit Range Rover 4 speed gearbox obtained. Cleaning up tonight and installing soon. PTO shafts should be fun to thread through the extractors..... Thanks to all who have helped point me to sources for the above mentioned items over the last few months. I have many 110 rear end bits surplus from the change to RR discs and calipers. Basically the complete rear brake/hub assemblies less axles, drive flanges and stubs. Also rear coils, shocks, A frame, Load leveller, trailing arms etc. If anyone is interested just ask, I would like to sell of swap as many bits as possible. All offers considered ( on the parts! ) :) Those Silverstone offroad tyres I have mentioned before are now available in Melbourne: Silverstone MT 117 - cross ply tyre, broken herring bone pattern. Size: 285 85 16 They are actually not all that different in size to 9.00 16s, but perhaps wider. Seem to work quite well on an 88 with transit van diffs and locks, hope to try them on the RR soon (after the salisbury is in to avoid a *snap*) Handling is MUCH more predictable than Super Swampers and MUCH quieter on road too. Tyre is 6 ply rated, so ride is quite nice compared to say SATs (8 ply in 7.50 16). Owner says that they climb out of ruts wheras his 36" swampers simply ploughed on regardless of where he steered. He has only had them a short while, so not much to go on yet. The big advantage of these over most other large mud tyres is cost: currently around A$200 ea. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! (In case I stay away again....) seeya Brian. 77 RR From Thu Dec 21 20:27:39 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 20:27:39 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From "T.F. Mills" Wed Dec 20 01:02:06 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:02:06 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LR Off Road School / Colorado? Anyone know anything about this? < David Dodell Contact Tom Collins, POB 587, Snowmass, CO 81654, 970-927-3788. He is also the Camel Trophy USA Team coordinator. I think the school is jointly operated by the Colorado and San Diego LR dealerships. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Dec 20 09:57:34 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:57:34 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Dixons abilities >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers He was perfectly OK with the phone when he rang me to sympathise with my decorating "sentence".Wasnt even shouting. Cheers Mike Rooth From "S.W.Brierley" Wed Dec 20 09:56:01 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:56:01 GMT From: "S.W.Brierley" Subject: Merry Christmas to all LRO's (Early-going away) Hi all Fellow LRO's, Just a christams wish to you all from myself(stu) and EMMA, my SerIII SWB. I am going away for christmas to Suffolk and will not have net access, so i'll say it now. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. C U all in '96 Stu and EMMA. From Richard Jones Wed Dec 20 9:57:33 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 9:57:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Fwd: '96 County Classic Mark Clemence writes: > I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the U.S. and am leasing a '93 County SWB > through August of '96. I was hoping to replace the vehicle at that time with a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > 4.0 and 4.6. A decision is apparently due soon. Does anybody have any further > details? The last Classic is currently scheduled to come off the line on February 8th 1996, and from there be driven to the Heritage Museum at Gaydon where it will take up residence. It will be the last (no 25) of the 25th Anniversary Final Edition (the other 24 have already been built). Incidentally no 25 should have been built already to since all right hand drive production has now finished, but it is being held up for the camera's. Current build is purely European spec left hand drive vehicles. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Vel Natarajan Wed Dec 20 04:22:42 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 04:22:42 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Cappings and Galvanizing I've noticed a fair amount of rust on the rear cappings of my 66 SWB, maybe from the PO steel-wooling them before he sold it. (It looked OK at the time.) I would rather leave them au-natural (as is) then paint them, but... I've also noticed an ad by "Shire 4x4" in Oxfordshire selling re-galvanized cappings. It would be nice to not have to worry about rusty cappings for a few decades... How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace the cappings. Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old pop-rivets which hold on the badges. How hard is it to use a 'real' rivet gun? Anyone ever replaced these babies? Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-566-323 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 03:00:07 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 03:00:07 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: New Years Mojave Road trip Gerry Elam posted a little bit on this last week (on the main list). Since I'll be away for most of next week, I put together a web page with more details, a brief map and some photos from when I drove the road last May. http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/MojaveRoad.html Note that in some postings a few of the GPS coordinates were off by 7 minutes of longitude (mea culpa--I screwed up marking my map). The web page has the coordinates that I think are correct (but are subject to my measurement mistakes). In brief a number of the California and Arizona Rovers are spending New Years weekend driving the old Mojave Wagon Road. This is a light offroad and was not challenging last May (dry conditions). Any Rovers are welcome. If you want to come email me or Gerry because it would be nice to know how many people are coming ahead of time. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Wed Dec 20 13:46 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 13:46 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Re: Whit Hi all So Mike sez: >Whit,(BSW,or British Standard Whitworth),BSF(British Standard >Fine),and BA (British Association),are all Imperial. >The numbers denote the diameter of the bolt itself.So 1/4"Whit >is a 1/4" dia bolt,Whitworth threaded.The number of threads Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size? What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what fits where? Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Wouter -- Wouter de Waal Phone : +27 21 683 5490 Development Engineer Fax : +27 21 683 5435 CCII Systems Kenilworth, South Africa From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 20 12:18:51 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 12:18:51 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: washing a disco Gerald wrote : > What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud > and salt off a Disco? I guess there are some spots underneath I need > to pay attention to. one thing to look out for is the ariel, i stuck mine through a car wash and was so preoccupied about the list of jobs and errands my wife had given me i had to sit and watch in horror as the brush things changed my straight arial into a peice of bendy wire uri geller would have been proud to produce. :-) oh well it still works and i may just have to get out the manual and change it. by the way the haynes manual only has 4 lines on this, and it says that once you have removed the splash guard, then disconnect the areil connector, i have only ever seen ariels with the connector that goes right into the radio, or have the lr mechs been sensible about where the connectors are sitiuated. From Stuart Williams Wed Dec 20 08:12:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:12:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: Thermal Differences ... All, Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix weather in the dead of summer? After all, he'd have to .sig his messages with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ... > Merry Christmas to all! May all of your Land Rover Dreams come true! > Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam Ah, but it's *dry* heat, right Gerry? Cheers, Stuart "Charlottesville high: 32" Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser (non-plushmobile) From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:18:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:18:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Noises that go away. Regarding the thread on engine noises that go away, get worse or deafen the operator. When I added sound proofing to Miss Golightly I found it psychologically disturbing to not hear all the noises I was used to. Then again Series owners are psychologically disturbed, noises or not. From Lee Zeltzer Wed Dec 20 06:27:46 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:27:46 -0700 From: Lee Zeltzer Subject: Purchasing dilemma A month or so ago I posted a request for leads to purchase a used D110. Instead I plunked down a deposit on a new D90 hardtop which is due in next week. Currently I own and love a 94 Discovery, however I cannot pry it out of my wife's hands. Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? I post this not to start a debate but frankly because I am torn beteen the creature comforts of another Discovery and the fact that I live in the best 4 wheel drive country in the world; Arizona. From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:38:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:38:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Half Shafts To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and continue. Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 20 08:17:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:17:00 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More Wdcockey@aol.com writes; > Actually, with the differential locked both power and torque are "divided" according to the respective traction on each wheel. This is a function of the rubber/ground interface, and any differences in tire diameters. With a totally open differential TORQUE is split evenly (in an axle) or according to the designed ratio in a center diff. Power is speed times torque, and therefore will be split according to wheel speed. This equal split of torque is why single wheelspin happens. When the torque exceeds the traction available to one wheel, it starts to spin and the other tire > continues to have the same torque. Sure, go and get technical on me. OK, I admit it was a sloppy statement (but aren't LR's about getting in the slop?). It was an ineffective way of trying to say you won't suddenly have a lot of power going to a wheel with nowhere to go except to break, or weaken, a half shaft, as you would with a detroit locker type diff. One wheel isn't going to be spinning madly and suddenly stop. Sheeesh, you engineer types. ;-) But it's ok, I understand. I get the same way about welding & pipefitting. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 20 08:32:01 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:32:01 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Half Shafts Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton writes: > To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and > continue. This also shows that we all should spend more time off road so we don't break half shafts. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 20 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 20 Dec 95 9:40:20 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the >front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, >driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no >parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and >continue. Dunno about this.... Having driven Churchill with the hubs locked and unlocked, I will say that I need the extra 10MPH and fuel mileage I get with the front hubs unlocked. Turning all that machinery just doesn't make a lot of sense when it's not imminently needed. There's little enough power in a 2.25 to waste it on spinning inert metal..... As far as the broken half-shaft scenario goes, that is why I have wheel chocks. If there's no one behind you, that's what CURBSTONES are for....or rocks.....or pedestrians.....8*) >Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 20 09:55:41 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixons abilities On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > come on Dixon 'fess up. Lies... (It was 21 years between oil filter changes, not 17) rumours... (You couldn't tell I drove over my landlords lamp post) Not my fault!... (no comment) I've been framed! From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 20 10:00:16 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixons abilities On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > I haven't heard all of the details and have been waiting to see what > got printed in the newsletter. Last I heard Dixon had a long list of > nominees including myself (though I can't recall what for off hand). > The day after he got the award, Dixon was mumbling on how Dale Despray > had sandbagged him. Dale is very unhappy about the newsletter. Seems I lost his and Ted's list of these supposed transgressions. However, to balance things out, and being editor, the newsletter is going to be much more entertaining this year (I ain't gonna be the first to get it twice), starting with Dale... I did tell them I would print any article-type thing they wished to write. It would be filed in a new fiction section in the newsletter > Maybe Robin will have to enlighten us. :-) Robin missed the party... :-) You're going to have to get Dale to talk. From add@philabs.research.philips.com (Aninda V. Dasgupta) Wed Dec 20 10:24:22 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:24:22 EST From: add@philabs.research.philips.com (Aninda V. Dasgupta) Subject: New Disco great in the snow, but has audio hum I got a new Avalon Blue Discovery last Friday. (For those discussing prices of Discos, I got mine for more than $1000 off MSRP, then added many "options" at dealer cost.) I drove my Disco to the Finger Lakes region of NY state last weekend, and it was snowing heavily at times. Yesterday we had the season's highest snowfall, and while most of my coworkers stayed home for the day, I decided to leave work with about a foot of snow on the ground. And I must say that I was impressed and immensely pleased with the way my Disco handled in the snow. I didn't feel any skidding or wheel-slippage, although granted that I don't drive like most 4x4 nuts out on the road who think the weather can't touch them. The two minor problems I have had so far with the Disco are: 1) The passenger seat recliner knob broke off with ouur first attempt to recline the seat. I am debating whether to just put the knob back on with some crazy glue, or wait till I take the car for service to the dealer 2) The audio system has a hum which increases in pitch as I rev the engine. I hear the hum even when the volume is turned off. I guess the audio system is picking up noise from the coil which may not be shielded. Or it could be that the dealer didn't install the CD changer properly. Can anyone on this list offer me advice as to what I can do to get rid of the hum? My dealer is more than an hour away, and I don't really want to make the trip down there unless I have to. But all in all, it's indeed a pleasure to drive this vehicle. Hope this level of satisfaction continues. Thanks to many members of this list who helped me with advice on the Discovery before and during my purchase of the vehicle. Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year everyone! -Aninda -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aninda DasGupta (add@philabs.philips.com) Ph:(914)945-6071 Fax:(914)945-6552 Philips Labs\n 345 Scarborough Rd\n Briarcliff Manor\n NY 10510 "Err.., Phillips Petroleum gives you gas; fortunately Phillips Chemical makes antacid. Philips is with one "el"; we make lightbulbs, and other shtuff." From tbwill@interserv.com Wed Dec 20 07:24:35 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:24:35 -0800 From: tbwill@interserv.com Subject: Disco Pricing > Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco? I'm looking > at the bottom end, box-stock SD model. Does anyone know the margin on these [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | > | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | > *-----------------------------------------------------* Out here on the West Coast, we have the "Kelly Blue Book" auto price guide. This used to be only for used cars, but now thay have a new car version. To get to the point, they show the cost of a 1995 "loaded" Discovery at 88.74% of the MSRP (MSRP - $36,575, Cost - $32,456). The local dealer confirmed this when he showed me the dealer cost of a demo I was contemplating buying. The figures were identical to the ones in the Kelly Blue Book. Hope this helps. By the way I took delivery of the Disco last Thursday. Tom Williams Fresno, CA From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 09:11:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 09:11:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Willys Bill Adams writes "Don't tread on my Willys" :-) How appropriate that someone who signs off 3Dmentia should have had two willys :-) From Easton Trevor Wed Dec 20 08:57:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 08:57:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Pictures of Camel Trials LRNA press release for December 10 mentions the availability of pictures at http://www.featurephoto.com and http:www.4x4u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats-newcamelt1.htm. If anyone gets pictures from these sites can they Email me some bmps or gifs as I don't have access. Thanks Trevor Easton This is the release. Typos courtesy of my scanner and OCR FOUR FINALISTS ANNOUNCED FOR CAMEL TROPHY KALIMANTAN '96 World's most intense four-wheel drive adventure is "tough fun" HOLLlSTER, Calif - December 10, 1995 - After more than thirty-two hours of grueling marathon trials here this weekend, four finalists have been selected for the United States' 1996 Camel Trophy team. Two of these four will go on to represent the U.S. in April when two-person teams from twenty nations travel to Kalimantan, Indonesia on the island of Borneo, for the adventure of a lifetime. Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, N.J.; Ken Cameron, 26, a carpenter from Vail, Colo.; Fred Hoess, 29, a champion motorcycle racer from Stanhope, N.J.; and Greg Oberst, 36, a firefighter and paramedic from Seal Beach, Calif. will travel to the Camel Trophy International Selections in Seville, Spain next February, where they will vie for the chance to represent the USA in the "Olympics of Four-Wheel Drive." "Whether you know it or not, you prepare tor something IIKe this most of your life: a challenging new venue filled with multiple things to do in a short time. It's tough fun," said Hoess. Oberst described the punishing 1,000-mile trek as "a multi-sport adventure that fits my lifestyle." The National Trials in Hollister were the first step in determining the U.S. team. Nine candidates, chosen from more than 400 applicants, competed in such individual and group tasks as hoisting a full 55-gallon drum one meter above the ground using only three logs, two pulleys and a length of rope; winching a vehicle uphill by hand; and crossing an algae-covered pond on a suspended rope, immediately after running six strenuous miles through the northern California hills. At night, the men used their Land Rover Discoverys, identical to the vehicles driven on the actual event, to demonstrate their off-road driving prowess. Slowed by a mud bog and then a near-vertical rock climb, the candidates winched their way, inch by inch, along the test course. While waiting their turns at the wheel, the competitors took written tests of map-reading, first-aid, and mechanical knowledge -- all critical Camel Trophy skills. The candidates are judged on their enthusiasm, their ability to perform arduous tasks under the most difficult conditions and their willingness to listen to new ideas and techniques. "Making the Camel Trophy team would be the achievement of a lifetime," said Cameron. "The Trials have already taught me that teamwork means letting the other guys have a voice and then picking a leader." For Brandner, Borneo "would be a different kind of growing experience...the trials have already shown me a lot of things I don't know and surprised me with some things I could do when challenged. I'll be growing myself." Camel Trophy is sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., marketer of Camel Trophy adventure gear and clothing and by Land Rover, manufacturer of premium British four-wheel drive vehicles. Additional U.S. Team support is provided by Coleman, Inc. From Tony Bonanno Wed Dec 20 08:57:18 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:18 -0800 From: Tony Bonanno Subject: Front end wobble Don't know if this observation is applicable to the postings I saw regarding front end wobble, but thought it might be worth considering. On my series IIA, noticed front end wobble/shimmy for several years with hubs engaged (but without 4 WD selected) starting at speeds of 35 - 40 mph and getting worse with more speed. Dissappeared when hubs were unlocked and front drive-train disengaged. After considering several tire balance/wheel/alignment/worn swivel pin, etc. possibilities, turned out to be none of them. What was causing the problem was worn splines in the sliding joint of the front prop shaft. The wear of the splines caused just enough play to set up major vibration when turning at speed. Remember, that all of the front end drive train still turns when in two wheel drive (UNLESS you have free wheeling hubs in the "free" position) and the angle of the front drive shaft is somewhat more severe than the rear (thereby more susceptible to wear problems?). Lesson here is keep that baby properly lubed. I have to admit, mine has been on the vehicle for about 25 years, so I can't really complain. Anyway, put a new front drive shaft on this summer, and is it smooth now !! NO vibration. I just regret that it took me so many years to figure out what was causing the vibration. Cheers, Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM From Tony Bonanno Wed Dec 20 08:57:15 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:57:15 -0800 From: Tony Bonanno Subject: Broken Axles Experiences Like most of the others posting on this subject, I've had a few broken axles over the past 25 years in my IIA SWB. However, only once did I break an axle off-road. All the other times, I was just starting off on dry pavement. Obviously, stress was building up over a period of time and it reaches the "breaking" point eventually.. Notice the "twisted" splines on BOTH the half shafts when you break one. I think I've learned a few things though since I haven't had an axle break (knock on wood) for about the last 10 years. A few items that I believe contribute to long axle life: - All my broken axles occurred using "oversize" tires. Since switching to 235/75's (I have 15" rims), no problem. - Definitely replace both half shafts if one breaks.. - Stay away from cheap aftermarket half-shafts. Back in the 70's, these were quite common from certain suppliers here in the U.S. I remember someone did some hardness testing on the original equipment vs. the aftermarket items. The aftermarket stuff was horrible. - Try to minimize excess slop in drive train (clutch judder, worn spring shackles, etc.). - Periodically check the condition of axle splines. You can pull them out in minutes. Check for twisting of splines. If any noticable twisting, I'd replace ASAP. The one time I broke a half-shaft off-road, I was way out in the middle of nowhere - on a high country track in southern Utah ... no one around to assist and it was cold and dark. Although risky (in terms of damaging my rear diff from metal debris), I drove the 40 miles or so home using the front axle (4WD High). Next day, pulled the broken half shaft, dropped the rear diff, removed the broken end from the carrier, cleaned things up, and installed new axles. Apparently, I didn't do any damage to rear diff from broken pieces, etc. Although, I can see how that could happen easily. Cheers! Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM From "Steve Methley" Wed Dec 20 17:08:00 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:00 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Whit Wouter says: ..Hmmmm. So what you're saying is that all 1/4" BSW bolts have the same size ..head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word ..than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth ..bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? and ..Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Whitworth was designed by Sir Joe Whitworth in 1841. OD's on the bolts were in fractions of an inch and the heads were standardised but not by a simple relation to bolt OD as far as I can see. I think it had more to do with the hex stock that the bolts were made from in that era. Of course the States followed with their own slightly different copy a little later. Metric came along at the turn of the century. Mike may well be right when he suggests a connection between BA and metric as BA is a Swiss watch thread historically I seem to remember. Back to the point in hand: BSW heads are not all the same size. Also BSW and BSF spanners are the same sizes, but when used on BSF fits 'the next bolt up' ie a 5/16 BSF will fit a 1/4 Whit - again if my memory serves me correctly. If you're really stuck a 14mm spanner will fit a 9/16 BSF head, as I discovered - it's almost perfect in theory too! You did ask... -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 117 922 8751 *** / *** fax: +44 117 922 9286 switchboard: +44 117 979 9910 ***** ***** or 8920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Dec 20 17:08:08 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:08:08 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Whit >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Hi all [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >head? Which is like, 3/8" or something? I've seen a spanner (More PC word >than "wrench" :-) in Whitworth. Would that imply that the heads on Whitworth >bolts are some funny size, so they need special spanners? *All* heads are a funny size if you look at it like that.But yes Imperial spanners are different sizes to metric. >The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed >to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) AF spanners will fit most bolts on a Land Rover,including *some* Imperial. But god help you if you try and shift a reluctant Whit bolt with an AF spanner,'cos no-one else will:-) AF stands for Across Flats,is American, and refers to the head size.The threads will be either UNF or UNC. >So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four >spanners or one shifter? Or are the heads on the first three the same size? >No,1/4" BSW,1/4"bsf are different spanners.BA is the diddy little things you find on electrical stuff,so you need a set of diddy BA spanners. >What I'm really trying to determine is, when I'm lying on my back, oil >dripping on my head, etc... what set of tools do I grab? How do I know what >fits where? You've got *sets*? Cor! A rich man! >Metric is so much easier ... (Big flame-war pyromaniac grin :-) Since when has easy been a recomendation.*So* much more restrictive, dont you think?With the great range offered by Imperial/American just *think* of all the things you can bolt together,using the *correct* thread for the job,insted of the nearest that might do. With luck.Imp/Am is so much better... >Wouter >-- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >CCII Systems >Kenilworth, South Africa Cheers Mike Rooth From "John J. Tackley" Wed Dec 20 12:18:45 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:18:45 +0000 From: "John J. Tackley" Subject: Washing a Disco...... Gerald asks: What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud and salt off a Disco? personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and brandishing wash rags..................... From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 13:13:29 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:13:29 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Washing a Disco...... On 20 Dec 95 at 12:18, John J. Tackley wrote: > Gerald asks: > What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > personally, I would watch out for the elephants spitting water and > brandishing wash rags..................... Are elephants Series devotees who might be a danger to my Disco? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Wed Dec 20 10:21:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:21:31 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES Ashley Horn asked: >HEY Y'ALL, >Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >people >using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. These wheels (nearly flat centers, five ovalish cooling slots, 7"x16") should be available from Land Rover dealers as they were "stock" on NAS D90s (but try to find a 90 with 'em! JB had to do big-time arm-twisting to get his 90 with 'em and not have to pay for the changeover--from "optional" alloys!). TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new, takeoffs" for about $85 each. Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25 pounds sterling each. British Pacific (e-mail to britpac@aol.com) in Burbank, CA is getting at least a pallet-load of brand new steel Disco wheels soon and sounds like they will be somewhere around $70 each. I'm lusting for a set. But if I get them I plan to fit them with 265/80R16 (=33x10.50x16) Interco Super Swamper TSL radials. Fantastic tire for mud and rock crawling. But 235/85R16s would be ideal on these rims. >P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them? Really should have safety beads to run tubeless but these can be added by a machine and welding shop. Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From Bennett Leeds Wed Dec 20 10:27:13 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:27:13 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Re: Disco pricing >...Consumer Reports, they give > you a printout on the dealer invoice as well options.. > CR does charge $12 for each report... If you're on the www, Edmund's has all that info for free. Try: http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds - Bennett From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Wed Dec 20 13:34:22 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Heat Not Hot Okay, okay. I know that these things aren't supposed to be warm in the winter. Or draft-free for that matter. But the heater in the '69 SRIIa doesn't seem to be putting out all the warmth it did last winter (and that wasn't a lot of warmth, believe me). At idle, after warming up the beast for several minutes, the heat is like room temperature. If I rev the engine, by pulling out that Cold Start thing, it warms up. But as soon as I slow the motor down the air cools off again. Is this a bad thermostat? Chris Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIa 88" SW Beckett Klay Communications 100 West Road Baltimore, Maryland 21204 USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Wed Dec 20 13:06:54 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:06:54 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Rancho RS5000 shocks - 4/$99 Thanks for the replies - I called 4 wheel parts wholesalers (310-323-5337) and the shocks are on sale through the end of the year. Get 'em while the gettin's good... Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "This is fun?" From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 20 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 20 Dec 95 14:10:26 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Washing a Disco...... Re: Elephants being Series fans: They should be, consideing they're both large, uuuuuugly, monolithic creatures at home in Africa, India and justaboutbloody everywhere else.....8*) aj"Theyre just not GREEN"r From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Dec 20 14:30:14 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:30:14 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: wrenches Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has a unique head design which they claim will fit any type bolt head or nut you will encounter, even good for rounded off ones. It was called the METRINCH and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody else has seen or has these??? Regards Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 20:00:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 20:00:31 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: SI more info That S1 is a 53, had a frame over rebuild 4 years ago, needs tyres, top is dented. The starter is out, seems that someone had snapped the connector to attach the power. Brake, clutch all rebuilt. Has a 2 litre engine. He's asking $2500. Going for a drive Friday, will let you know if I take it or pass it on. Mark From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Wed Dec 20 15:07:57 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 15:07:57 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Disco antenna replacement Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric retracting antenna and installing it. I will be doing this when (not if) I break my antenna again. (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still ) Caution, instructions given for antenna on right hand side, with passenger on right hand side, eg US version. I plead ignorance of UK versions, but assume mirror image. Camel "Lite" Task difficulty: 2 Camel "Lite" Time to complete: 2 hrs Team activity?: Yes, except for Ben, who, having driven up the mountain for .5 Jolt units, is oscillating so much from the caffine that he is simultaneously in two places. ;-) Requires: 1 Disco, 1 Antenna, a few wrenches (spanners?), pop rivet tool, small knife, fish. Patience. Exterior 1) The splash guard is attached with some weird pop rivets (about 3). Be prepare to remove & replace these. They are attched along the inside of the wheel well. There are also about 8 plastic expanding things that are like sleves with a pin inside that expands the end of the sleve. The little pin that pokes inside can be levered/extracted out with a sharp pocket knife. The plastic sleve/boltish thing can then be removed. These can be re-used. 2) Be VERY careful unbolting/torqueing the actual antenna. The metal is apparently soft and you can bend it. 3) Now, what I did was to snip the antenna wire close to the antenna, and remove & install the new antenna. You can reach your arm up there to do it (see above caution, Use some lockjaws or whatever to hold the unit while someone else unscrews the nut. 4) I taped a fish to the old antenna wire and pulled it through the interior. Interior 1) You must remove the floor trim panel on the side by where your passengers feet go. I recall there only being a screw that had a plastic cap on it and then it sliped out. 2) You must lower the trim panel above where your passengers feet go. (That's all as I recall). This had a weird thing that looked like a big pan headed plastic screw but really was sort of push in thing when it came down to it. 3) The mess of wires up there is lucas's revenge. For what I don't know. :-) Find the one that is the antenna wire, pull it and your fish through. Note! Have your asitant guide the fish through all of the grommets without becomming un attatched. I Find soapy water to help. 4) Attach the fish to the new wire and repeat the procedure. Mine had some replacement grommets to be reseated. ymmv. 5) The female end of the antenna wire is within reach in the mess of wires in step 3 above. You will find it pretty easily. No radio removal or center console removal is required (I know, I was amazed as well). Dunno how you would put in a power one. I will soon I'm sure. Bon chance ttfn Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com 5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829 From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 16:03:30 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:30 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: RE: WHEELS & TIRES On 20 Dec 95 at 10:21, Granville B. Pool wrote: . . . . > alloys!). TW found a Bay Area (SF, CA) dealer taking two sets of these > steel wheels off 90s to fit alloys and was able to buy them as "new, > takeoffs" for about $85 each. Same item commonly sold in UK for about 20-25 > pounds sterling each. . . . . How much do the steel Disco wheels weigh? Maybe I'll pick up a set next time I'm in U.K. and bring them back as checked baggage. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 16:03:31 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:03:31 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement When ("not if) you install the power antenna please report back the prcedure. Since it appears to be an option in the U.K. there may be power for it. On 20 Dec 95 at 15:07, Tom Des Jardins wrote: > Haveing performed this task I can recommend the purchase of an electric > retracting antenna and installing it. I will be doing this when (not if) I > break my antenna again. (Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 > disc yuppie changer, I don't need to rush, but still ) . . . . -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Mark Talbot" Wed Dec 20 21:20:16 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 21:20:16 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Spotting S1 stuff Just wondering if anyone knows when the S1 went to 86" from 80" ? From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 21 09:01:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:01:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: wrenches These have been available in Oz for some years now. I haven't seen them as a set though, only as individual units (makes it an expensive way to buy them) but they are very handy. I have only seen them as 1/2" drive. So far I only have a handfull, but they have saved a lot of cursing, grazed knuckles etc... ...and yes, they do work well on rounded off ones!! BTW I have passed a brown 110 twice this week on the Harbour bridge with Christmas tinsel wrapped around the bull bar and the aerials.... Is he on the 'net?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From "Hugh Grierson" Thu Dec 21 11:03:34 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:03:34 +1300 From: "Hugh Grierson" Subject: Re: Whit > The spanners I've used are marked AF, so far used 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and managed > to strip a Landy down to the chassis. Using an angle grinder helped :-) What! No 7/16? That's the first spanner I had to buy two of for removing landy body parts (closely followed by the 1/2). -- Hugh Grierson hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 21 09:17:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:17:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Spotting S1 stuff Late 1953.... From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 20 17:35:24 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette >How much of a PITA is it to remove those big-ass rivets and replace >the cappings. Those look like 'real' rivets and not the lil'-old [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal: Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working. Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and the sheet metal.Don't be shy. 3 to 5 blows should pop the head off and you can then drive the remaining rivet guts out of the hole with a small nail set. If you worry about marring the surface, try this on the inboard side of the panel. For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. I don't know about your area but I take small stuff for galvanizing to a place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do as a side job. Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 15:04:11 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:04:11 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Half Shafts Trevor Easton wrote: To add further fuel to the fire of broken half shafts. Ben writes that each of the shafts he has broken occured when parking or pulling away on road. This points to another reason not to have locking /freewheeling hubs on the front. Picture this: Hubs unlocked, pulling away from stop on incline, driver only, no passengers, half shaft breaks. Look no drive, look no parking brake. Help!!!!!. No freewheeling hubs. Just select FWD and continue. You could do that. Whenever I've broken a half-shaft, I've stopped immediatly. The more you drive drive around, the greater the change that you'll suck a bit into the crowngear and blow the diff. Almost every Rover will have something in it that can be used as a chock. If I'm not doing a side-of-the-road repair, I remove the propshaft, remove both half shafts and put the half-shaft end caps back on. Then I move the Rover. That way I don't do any additional damage to the diff. Also why put needless wear and tear on the front diff and it's linkage? All that does is suck gas and decrease your top speed. Ben, keeping my Warn hubs the way they are ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 20 15:16:59 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:16:59 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Spotting S1 stuff In message <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: <199512202139.QAA05991@butler.uk.stratus.com> From Rick Grant Wed Dec 20 20:14:23 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:14:23 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Bosnia travels Well I'm just back from a month in the former Yugoslavia and a hell of a lot of it spent in various Land Rovers. The most dramatic time was a week ago today when I was trying to travel in a Discovery from Tuzla, north of Sarajevo, to Medugorje, near the coast; a distance of roughly 300-400 Km. Well the emphasis was truly on the roughly. It took us 20 hours to plough our way through the metre of snow that fell that day. Despite living in Canada, including eight years in the Arctic, I've never seen winter driving conditions as bad as they were on that trip. The worst bit was trying to get over the mountain after Zenica to join the main road, in fact the only road, that links Sarajevo and the coast. The mountain road is called the PacMan route for some odd reason and it's a hellish ride in any snowfall but beyond description in a one metre blizzard. It was made all the worse by the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of stuck and abandoned trucks and other vehicles up one side of the mountain and down the other. But that Discovery Tdi simply chugged its way through it all and somehow kept us from plunging over the edge into some bottomless ravine. I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting stuck. With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily charge off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any vehicle blocking the way. Many times the snow was rolling up over the bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on. We passed a number of Defenders that weren't doing so well but to be fair to them they were the armored type and the extra weight, about another tonne and a half I believe, severely hampered them. Those armored Def's are true pigs. I drove one in Sarajevo for a bit and it was like trying to pilot a submarine on wheels. All the armored plate puts a tremendous imbalance into the suspension and even though they're equipped with stronger springs and shocks they drive more like a boulder crashing down a mountainside than anything resembling a vehicle. And then there's the near total lack of visibility. The windscreen and the side windows are much smaller than normal so it's a bit like looking through the driving slit of a tank. The glass is bullet proof as well but it's also coated with a sheet of some sort of plastic that flares any light, such as headlights, into a blooming cloud of rainbow col ours. I believe that people with severe cataracts would recognize the effect. But there are lots of more stock Defenders roaring around Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina as well as vast numbers of new Discovery's owned by the United Nations. The UN Disco's are a bit of a scandal in the Croatian capital of Zagreb where they don't get much use beyond running around the city or trips out to the airport. In fact there are a couple of dozen new Disco's with every kind of accessory that are only used at the airport by the UN and Zagreb doesn't get much snow, not to mention that the roads are BMW smooth. I didn't see too many "salvageable" wrecks lying around other than in Tuzla where there is this really nice clump of six S111's sitting in a junkyard right in the city centre. All but two are sitting on their rubber and although I couldn't get closer than 30 metres they appear pretty intact, right down to wipers and spare wheel fittings on the bonnets. I would think that given the number of trucking outfits now running into places like Tuzla from other parts of Europe, and the total lack of any back haul cargo, it might be worthwhile for someone in say Britain to cut a deal with the junkyard and have a trucker haul them out for restoration. But that Discovery -- what a nice machine. Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Thu Dec 21 03:46:03 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 03:46:03 +0100 From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Subject: Range Rover lift/springs Yesterday Dee Brown asks about a proper spring, to give the Range a lift of 2". I just received four springs from EIBACH. I think the best you can get in germany. They lift the vehicle nearly 2"(5cm). As I am also looking for shockabsorbers, I even prefer Bilstein, because the Bilstein kit is made to fit the Eibach springs. The parts number ot the shocks are: Front B46-0243 rear: B46-0253. The steering dampers number (strongly recommended): B36-0245. Ciao Kurt From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Dec 20 22:12:17 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:12:17 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Whitworth - Info. BA is short for British Association according to my father-in-law engineering manual. BA threads: BA Bolt diam. Pitch Head 6 2.8mm 0.110in 0.53mm 0.020in 0.193in 4 3.6mm 0.142in 0.66mm 0.026in 0.248in 2 4.7mm 0.185in 0.81mm 0.031in 0.324in 0 6.0mm 0.236in 1.00mm 0.039in 0.412in Head size is hex across flats and round head diameter Above from B.S. 93:1919 and B.S. 57:1920 Note that for the bolt diameter and thread pitch the primary dimension is metric. And that was 75 years ago. BS and Whitworth hex sizes BS Whitworth Hex AF 3/16 1/8 .340 1/4 3/16 .445 5/16 1/4 .525 3/8 5/16 .600 7/16 3/8 .710 1/2 7/16 .820 9/16 1/2 .920 5/8 9/16 1.010 11/16 5/8 1.100 3/4 11/16 1.200 7/8 3/4 1.300 I can to Mr. Whitworth. I believe that the threads are very different from the more usual Unified & SAE, with different thread pitches. The Series One Club offers a Whitworth rethreading tool for straightening bolt threads. RN & AB among others carry Whitworth/BS tools Snap-On also has Whitworth sockets, but not wrenches Hope the above is of help. David Cockey From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 20 22:56:12 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:12 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Lugnuts Robin wrote: >Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has he >been a bit shy about telling you all about it?.... Dixon, old chap, this is a truly *major award*. Do tell!!! Normally, you have to do something creative, like instantly create a new rear garage entrance or road-race angle grinders. Enquiring minds want to know.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Wed Dec 20 19:54:02 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 19:54:02 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: Re: wrenches >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Saw an info-mercial a few days ago about a wrench and socket set that has [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >and is supposed to be something currently in use in Europe. Wonder if anybody >else has seen or has these??? Regards Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 I believe these are very (suspisciuously?) like the "surface drive" sockets used by the auto manufacturers on assembly lines. They will engage and torque a fastner while the tool is contiuously spinning. They are a series of round "points". 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 20 22:56:06 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:56:06 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Breaking up is hard to do... WRT this thread on broken axles, all three of mine have also been at slow (or no) speed in the city. Curiously, in each instance, I was also wearing a three piece suit.... Anyway, two were pulling away from the parking place in front of my apartment in those days, and the other was in rush hour (creeping) traffic. Of course, I had the coveralls and spares in the back, though I never had the luck for them to break at the outer flange...and when they broke, they would always fracture and enlarge necessitating a complete diff disassembly. If one is prone to breaking axles, a nifty trick is to machine a groove near the outer splines just a shade smaller than the inner splines. That way, it'll break out where you can grab out the broken stub with pliers and slap in new one. BTW, broken (long) axles sharpened slightly (has anyone ever broken the short side??) make good, no-cost ground anchors, especially if you weld a little ring onto one end so you can link 'em. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Gerald" Wed Dec 20 23:11:50 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:11:50 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Disco head lamp levelling I have seen two references to head lamp levelling in Discos. Both were probably for U.K. cars. There seems to be a switch and motors involved. What is it? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Thu Dec 21 08:23:40 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:23:40 GMT+200 From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Subject: Re: clutch & clunk (was: re:The Land Rover Own...) > > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > the theory. > I don't know if the sound is ok, but at least it's common It is the Ball joint connecting the rear axle to the body on the A-frame. Hope this makes sense, I don't know all the technical terms. It can be tested by inserting a crowbar and see if it moves. Replace it and enyou the new !!! ride Greetings Gawie. Gawie van Blerk --------------------------------------------------------------- Internet : A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za (work) : gawie@pixie.co.za (home) URL : http://www.pix.za/bloemfontein/gawie.html Tel : 27+51+404-2421 --------------------------------------------------------------- From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 22 09:50:26 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:50:26 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Slick 50 >Hi chaps, has anyone ever treated a landie with that slick 50 gearbox treatment >I was thinking of doing both the disco and my series 2a. Slick 50 and similar products are nothing more than regular or synthetic 50-rated engine oil (including standard additives) with PTFE (Teflon TM) added. PTFE is the common abbreviation used for Polytetrafloeraethylene, more commonly known by the trade name "Teflon," that is a registered trademark of the DuPont Chemical Corporation. Among the oil additives containing PTFE are: Slick 50, Liquid Ring, Lubrilon, Microlon, Matrix, Petrolon (same company as Slick 50), QMl, and T-Plus (K-Mart brand) there are probably many more names in use on many more products using PTFE. One of the most damning testimonials against these products originally came from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the patents and trademarks for Teflon. In a statement issued about ten years ago, DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said, "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines." After a flurry of lawsuits from oil additive makers, claiming DuPont could not prove that PTFE was harmful to engines, DuPont was forced to once again begin selling their PTFE to the additive producers. The additive makers like to claim this is some kind of "proof that their products work, when it is nothing more than proof that the American legal ethic of "innocent until proven guilty" is still alive and well. The decision against DuPont involved what is called "restraint of trade." You can't refuse to sell a product to someone just because there is a possibility they might use it for a purpose other than what you intended it for. The problem with putting PTFE in your oil, as explained by several industry experts, is that PTFE is a solid. The additive makers claim this solid "coats" the moving parts in an engine. This is not possible, Teflon can not bond to moving engine parts at the normal operating temp. of 180 degrees or so. Such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction. Tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant." The best way to improve lubrication in the engine and the gearbox is to buy a top quality synthetic oil from a reputable company. -Kevin Kelly From Danny Phillips Fri Dec 22 14:59:09 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 14:59:09 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: more on gearbox oils Dear all, I have got back some info on treatments to gearbox oils etc, thansk for all the info, however, i am sure when i read the haynes manual at home last night, it said even the manual gearbox uses automatic transmission fluid. now i hope i have read that wrong but i am sure thats what it said. anyone know for sure. From "John C. White, III" Fri Dec 22 07:02:50 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 07:02:50 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Whit At 16:36 21.12.95 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Or a Yorkshire Slide Rule. >Mike Rooth In German these are called "Englaender" (Englishmen). Now I know why. Prost! John From Fri Dec 22 4:48:21 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 4:48:21 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From Thu Dec 21 4:33:05 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 4:33:05 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 16 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 16 Dec 95 09:58:57 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Plushmobiles In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. In fact some of the yuppies in my club are the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I suggest she get the facts. Yes they are diesels and that is one reason why they have the incredible wading abilities ( no electronics) As for the support they get on the event a competitor in the 94 event, Mac Barber, told me that aside from changing tires and cleaning fuel filters (very important on a diesel) the vehicle just kept going. He liked it so much that when he got back he bought one for himself. Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental insurance. I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job crossing Borneo that a Disco. Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love to have a coil-sprung, galvanized chassis 88 with a smuggled in Tdi or Isuzu 2.8 complete with snorkle so I could show some of the Georgia rednecks that 10 litre V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite. Obvioulsy I would take this vehicle some places the Disco does not go. Not because I don't think it would make it but becuase I have to drive it to work the next day. The disco has already surprised many of the rural residents of the GA hills with its ablility- Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it was built. Mark Ritter 94 Disco Yes, I do wave! From LAW142@aol.com Sat Dec 16 10:57:18 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:57:18 -0500 From: LAW142@aol.com Subject: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8 I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without having to pay a fortune. I'm also looking for a US based company that can build/make a roll cage for my SIIA SW with safari roof that will still allow me to put on a roof rack with rear ladder. Can any one help me? Karl Young II 69 Land Rover Series IIA 109 Station Wagon w/Safari Roof, RHD Austin, Texas From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:13:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:13:52 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Rangies With US V-8? In LRO Magazine I occasionally see blurbs about Rangies with Chevrolet 350 V-8 conversions, and I've heard of a Ford V-8 conversion too. Does anyone know anyone about these -- who makes the kits, whether they retain the RR transmission, etc.? Just curious. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Sat Dec 16 11:30:13 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:30:13 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: VIN/Chassis numbers Dear all, Another one for you. Just got some photos of a client's Rover we are going to do some work on. The weird thing, maybe not weird, but something I haven't seen is, the tag with the numbers on it is all in French. Is this what the tags looked like when sent to a French market? The Chassis number checks out to be LHD, export 109, as does the Rover, but I have not seen a French tag before. Any thoughts? Mike Smith, ECR From "John Y. Liu" Sat Dec 16 08:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Plushmobiles At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote: >extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I >suggest she get the facts. >Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't >need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it >was built. Look, everyone, let's understand that the comments about "plushmobile" and the like are meant to be taken in jest. Don't take them seriously and get offended. Think of them as being accompanied by a dig in the ribs and a hearty chortle. Clearly people can like both Series vehicles and Rangies/Discos -- indeed, many on this list own both (and I aspire to.) But the Series drivers can poke fun at the yuppie Disco drivers wailing over espresso spills and noisy carphones, and the Disco owners can laugh at the Series owners wearing earplugs, freezing in the winter, and broiling in the summer. (There, now I've offended everyone.) It's all in fun, folks. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 09:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:31:41 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas Actually the '95s have a several second delay as well. Mine hasn't had the buzzing that Bob talks about though. Bob's radio may just be getting a broadcast from Radio Free Lucas. Cheers! John At 08:08 15.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com From lopezba@atnet.at Sat Dec 16 20:27:52 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:27:52 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Hardtop insulation David Bobeck wrote: >>Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the >>tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] >handy with a needle and thread. >Cheers >Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock in the UK, although I do not have their latest ad here at the moment. I seem to remember some name like PG Absorbent Headliner, so it may not be the original LR product but something made by Procter & Gamble. As far as I know these headliners are on back order though, and you may have to wait until the beginning of April. They also advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small valves for the four corners of the roof. These will allow the moisture that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle down on the outside of the LR without letting water in. Unfortunately they are not marked really well and installation is by trial and error unless you have very keen eyesight, since the only difference between the inside and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the outside. I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for. Their fax number is (UK) 1543 505 408. For a drier drive Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From KKelly6788@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:06:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:06:59 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood at times) during the Camel Trophy trials. I asked a couple of the guys from LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a few letters. Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change their mind. Kevin Kelly From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Dec 16 15:49:06 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:49:06 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Vehicle ID Number system does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ?? the number I have has a total of 9 digits and is configured as such ... 2 numbers , one letter, 6 numbers. Anybody have a clue?? thanks Steve Bradke From ericz@cloud9.net Sat Dec 16 13:11:32 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:11:32 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Yuppies and other sources of unrest. Please, don't go crazy about the joking that goes around this list regarding Series Rovers versus the newer models. Most everything said here is in jest, or at very least in envy. What really counts is whether or not you appreciate the vehicle for what it is: the worlds toughest and most versatile off-road vehicle. Of course, there is an abundance of gadgetry on the newer vehicles (disco, RR, even Defender) but look at the market. We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other groups. As a result, the new models have the conveniences and niceties that such a market requires. This is not to say that people who buy newer rovers are in someway inferior. For the most part, people buying the newer rovers are just different people from series owners. All rover owners have the responsibility to make each other feel welcome based on the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle they're sitting in. There is a series owner in every disco owner and vice-versa. OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the rover community. Eric (a confirmed series owner who still waves to discos and RRs in hope) From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:12:42 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:42 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Trailers I still can't get over the guy who put 15 sheets of 3/4 particle board on th e rack. One good right hander and... I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story would be appreciated. Also wonder about the apparently PTO-driven trailer pictured in the literature. Anybody have one of these? what a hoot! From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Dec 16 18:25:24 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:25:24 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: To those who are about to die,we salute you.. Parts that is. Thanks to all for their advice during the recent transmission crisis. (RN, expect a call from my mechanic!) Much to our chagrin, the gearbox expired. It is now on the table experiencing open heart surgery ($$$$) On the bright side, it will be ready for another 30 years of faithful service. "All my troubles are Rover" Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:38 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:38 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Popular Science And you know what else, Bob? They tell me the room service on the Camel Trophy is terrible. The Connaught Hotel has nothing to worry about. Sniff. John At 10:36 15.12.95 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>From: John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com] [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > \_/ \_/ N7UMU >with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek. From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:46 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:46 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles At 21:59 15.12.95 -0600, Soren Vels Christensen wrote: >I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush >pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all >that. These are the most minor of complaints, true, but Land Rover claims to build top quality vehicles in every regard. The off-road capabilities of Discoveries are only part of the equation. Land Rover has also seen fit to appoint NAS Discos with power steering, power anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, stereos with cassette players (optionally also CD players), leather upholstery, electric sunroofs (optionally), and carpeting. If Land Rover can't get these items right, then it shouldn't be in the plush business. As the saying goes, "A job worth doing is worth doing well." Cheers! John From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 16 16:36:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:28 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Popular Science Camel Trophy Discoveries are diesel so they aren't as electronically fragile as the V8i in NAS Discos, but I would venture to guess that an added feature of the diesel is that it has almost twice the gas mileage of the V8i. That's got to be especially important on a 1,000 mile trek where the nearest gas station is who knows where. Let's talk about plushness and its darker yuppie submessage, shall we? A Discovery can't clear the same rocks that a Series can. There are things I can do when I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans ("real" peoples clothes) that I can't do when I'm wearing a suit (yuppie garb) because suits are more confining. Nevertheless it's still my god-like physique in both. Many LROs have expounded on the off-road capabilities of the Discovery. It is a Land Rover from its logo to Lucas electricals. Oh yes, and no one forced me to buy a Discovery. I bought one of my own free will. Does that make me a yuppie? While I hate all that the label implies (selfishness. Conspicuous, graceless consumption. Snobbery), I will leave it to those who know me to decide whether or not the label fits. Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 10:19 15.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" >writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was >because Rover insisted that they use them. Discos are cheaper for them to build >& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos. They probably started >supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that >plushmobiles can go offroad too. With the kind of support the Camel Trophy cars >get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus. Mind you it may be a year or >more slower making it to the finish than the Discos. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] >I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they >still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain. Mind you I'm >not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover that >doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without losing >the ground effects baffeling and that low side step. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] >don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice. >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:31:04 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:31:04 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Nice lightweight for sale I just received my January 96 Land Rover World. in the classifieds at the back on page 125 is one of the nicest s3 lightweights in good condition for sale that I have seen for a while. The vehcile is complete with cam nets et al and the guy only wants POUNDS UK 2950!! I'll be checking my lottery ticket in the am .... Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 16 19:24:02 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:24:02 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News Just when you thought it was safe...... Matchbox Collectibles have come out with a new version of their series one fire truck with trailer in the "Works Fire Service" livery. The new version is diffreent only by the following:- Decal gone from door, Wheels now chromed intsead of red If you ask me it does not look as good as the original but I"ll be buying it anyway.... I found another one of the NASA 90 and trailers with the blue wheels today, again in a ZEllers store. If you would like to be included in a toy / model digest email me direct. Rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 16 17:14:28 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:14:28 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? In message <199512162007.PAA15069@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? > I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US. They all said that there > was no plans as of now to import the Tdi. I've heard 2 conflicting rumors about the 300 Tdi. The first is that LRNA got it past US DOT/EPA, but doesn't think that there is a market in the US for diesel engines. The other is that the engine is designed to meet European specs and that so far LRNA has been unable to get the engine through California Smog tests. Since, according to rumor, there is a huge EPA fine to bring a vehicle that cannot pass emmissions for all 50 states, LRNA gave up. I have yet to find anyone who can give a definite answer. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Russell Burns Sat Dec 16 17:21:47 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 17:21:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Disco's Had a chance last weekend to brake one of those new yuppie mobiles. I happen to be out on the left coast when my good friend Raj picked up his new disco. Green thing with leather seats, cd changer, dual sunroofs, built in expressio machine ect.. ect. The first plan was to go to holister hills and see the camel trials. But it seems that LRNA took over the park. All we could do is sit outside the gate and form a parade with some other Rover owners. After giving up on the trails, we headed south to another orv place Clear creek. We did manage to get the disco temporarly detained on a hill. I was explaining the benifits of having a shovel and other like tools as we ascended this steep hill. We got to a ripply section and Raj decided to slow down. With the loss of momentium we coulds not progress any futher up the hill. I explained to Raj that we needed to back down the hill. As there was a 4 foot deep rut on the passenger side I told him I would watch my side. Sticking my head out the window I was announcing the distance in feet between the rut and his new truck. We started at three feet from the rut, and proceded to back down the hill We then were 4 feet, and 5 feet from the rut when Raj slamed on the brakes and announced that he backed into a tree. So I got out and looked. The tree was the least of our worries. It seems that he was following a rut on the drivers side, and right after the "bush" it got progressively deeper. At we sat, the rear diff was scraping the ground. I had Raj get out of the car to take a look, and he promply started sliding down the hill. (it was almost too steep to walk up) I tried letting some air out of the tires for better traction, but I still could not get enought to drive up the hill and take a better cut. Well out came the jack, jacked up the rear tire. Dragged trees, rocks,small kids etc.. and filled in the rut. After chipping at the sides of the ruts with the jack handles, I think Raj realized the benifits of a shovel. After about 9 cu yards of fill I was able to back the yuppie mobile down the hill. Raj then explored some of the other trails in the park. A lot of trails had overhanging bush, and would scrape the Disco. I kept muttering that this was a Land-Rover polish job, but know one caught the humor.... Needless to say, when we were done there were a number of minor (major) scratches in the clear coat. Raj was quite upset about this kept muttering about ruining the truck with less than 500 mile on it. But actually I think he told his fiance that this was going to be her truck, and was afraid to face the wrath of the little women. At dinner I explained that if the Land-Rover polish did not suit him, you could buff out the clear coat and it would look like new. He clearly was an unbeliver, but his up comming marriage gave him little choice.Some how Sunday he found some one with a buffer who polished the Disco, allowing him to visit his fiance safely sunday nite. Talking to him latter that week, he said he was heading down to holister hills to do some more offroading. I replied "great, a few more times and you won,t even have ot bother with the wax and polish jobs...." Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 One of those damn yuppie types (mistakes can happen to the best of us) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sat Dec 16 17:59:21 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:59:21 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Hardtop Insulation Peter Hirsh writes: :Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock... They also :advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small :valves for the four corners of the roof. These will allow the moisture :that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle :down on the outside of the LR without letting water in. Unfortunately :they are not marked really well... the only difference between the inside :and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the :outside. I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for. Let's see, FO and OL?? FO, OL?? FO-OL? Could it be FOOL! :) Holiday Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Danny Phillips Thu Dec 21 9:37:53 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 9:37:53 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Gearbox treatments. Hi chaps, has anyone ever treated a landie with that slick 50 gearbox treatment i was thinking of doing both the disco and my series 2a. should i rush to do it or should i run away from it ? any thoughts gratefully received. cheers danny p.s. have a great xmas everyone. From Tom Stevenson Thu Dec 21 11:40:32 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:40:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Metrinch spanners I have a set of Metrinch spanners which work very well. They move the nut from its flats, not the corners, so they will undo rounded off nuts easily. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Vel Natarajan Thu Dec 21 05:57:43 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:57:43 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:35:24 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can be >done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal: Ah. I don't know what I was thinking. I forgot that the simplicity and practicality of the LR also included body panels. :-) >Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working. >Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off the >tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. I don't have much experience w/ rivets, so please bear with me while I ask some more basic questions... Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same? I've only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the center. How are the round head ones different to replace? I think the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer the original look of them. >I don't know about your area but I take small stuff for galvanizing to a >place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on the >size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll do >as a side job. I thought I'd do that while I'm here in the UK where replacement parts are cheaper and plentiful. (I also need to replace the left rear end panel due to a good sized dent/hole from the PO.) >Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. I agree. I'd rather have mine rusty and original than painted and tacky. I was being only half serious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-566-323 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 12:18:06 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:18:06 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Handbrake Drums >. >On another note I spotted a familiar name (and email address) in the >LRO international magazine. One of the 'Reader's Tips' on the >'Drivetrain' page. A handy tip from our very own M.J.Rooth. Fame at >last Mike!! I'll come round with the hat later....... Merry Christmas All Mike Rooth From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 21 07:42:25 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:42:25 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Power, power, power I want more power. Let's see, I've got everybody to put in carriage returns. What next? Mmmmm. I know! >From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink. Thank you, Sgt. A.Nally-Retentive LRO Submissions Police Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:12:57 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:12:57 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Solid Rivets I have replaced several original solid rivets on my Series II with genuine L-R solid rivets, available (at lest a couple of years ago) from Rovers North. The correct way to remove the old ones, as any aviation metalsmith will tell you, is to drill them out from the head side. Drill size should match the rivet shank (i.e., same as the hole in the sheet metal the rivet goes through). Before putting drill bit to rivet head, centerpunch the head to create an easy starting point. Swivel the drill like a waist gunner in a B-17 if necessary to keep the tip of the bit headed down the centerline of the rivet as go drill. In theory, drill only far enough to penetrate completely through the head. If you've done it right, the head will pop off and ride up the drill bit. Then use a drift to punch out the remainder. If you insist on chiseling off the head, drill the head as described above first, and it'll pop off really easily. Since Series L-R hole tolerances are not what they are in Phantoms or even P-47s, you may need to drill all the way through, because the shank expanded to fill an oversize or out-of-round hole. Reinstalling new solid rivets is not hard if you have the feel of using a pneumatic gun. Try to get one with a pressure adjustment. If you're not used to it, it can get away from you quite easily and you could take out an unlucky bystander. They can be hammered by hand, but once you've gotten the hang of the air tool, it's too much fun to go back to primitive methods. Might be worth a trip to the local general aviation field to talk to an airframe mechanic. Drilling from the tail side can be messy because rivets frequently lose their symmetry about the centerline on that end, tending to lean over to one side on a regular basis. After all, they were not installed in Solihull by guys who were building Vulcan bombers during the weekend. I've long contemplated separating the galvanized gutter from the aluminum sheet roof panel of my 109, as part of the perpetual restoration, for regalvanizing. I assume the reattachment will be with aluminum (solid) aircraft rivets rather than the original (steel?) hollow-tails. There are so many of them, strength is not a worry, even for gutter-mounted expedition racks. Regards, Hank "We don't need no stinkin' Cherry-Max" Lapa From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Dec 21 08:16:24 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:16:24 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Rancho Sale - Std vs HD??? I'm about convinced to run out and get four for my 109. Anyone with wisdom regarding standard vs heavy-duty? A long time ago, a voice at RN told me that HD were overkill, probably referring to "Genuine." Thanks in advance, Hank From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 21 08:25:14 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:25:14 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Power, power, power Steve Reddock wants control... >From now on can everybody please send their submissions in RED ink. REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM PS. This message has nothing to do with changing brake parts... Dave"Here's Johnny"Bobeck From Stuart Williams Thu Dec 21 08:24:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:24:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: News from the front lines ... Thanks to Rick Grant for an interesting look into Bosnian public transportation in his posting from Wed, 20 Dec 1995. Not bad performance for a plushmobile, eh? > I couldn't get over how that machine never even seemed to think of getting > stuck. With only a set of chains on the rear wheels it would happily charge > off the barely cleared track into virgin snow and carve its way around any > vehicle blocking the way. Many times the snow was rolling up over the > bonnet and breaking against the windscreen as we plunged on. Derogatory bits about armored Defender performance in similar conditions deleted ... ;^) Stuart Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 21 08:51:52 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 08:51:52 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: snow -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I have just now come in from plowing 20 inches of snow, which my 65 88 seems to enjoy as much as I do. I was thinking that those of you on the East coast who have sore backs from shoveling are missing a bet by not fitting a plow. You too can look forward to snowstorms... though I've yet to see a RR or Disco pushing snow. Oh yeah, by the way, I just happen to have a Fisher plow rig to spare..ahem.. Anyhow, you'll have to excuse me as I'm going out to fire up the sauna. These Maine winters are hell! From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 21 06:00:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 06:00:11 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco antenna replacement At 15:07 20.12.95 EST, Tom Des Jardins wrote: >(Of course since it's a disco and I have the 6 >disc yuppie changer... You mean yuppies aren't at least housebroken? Figures. Cheers! John '95 Discovery From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 21 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 21 Dec 95 8:21:29 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? THis is beginning to frustrate me. The transmission on my 109 leaks a pint of oil every week or two. Most of it is coating the crossmember under the bellhousing, but there's nothing coming from the wading plug hole - i plugged it then removed the plug and it's bone-dry. I can't for the life of me figure out where it's leaking from - any suggestions on tracing the leak before Lotus fires me for doing an Exxon Valdez in the parking garage? More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast? Alan From Sanjay Prasad Thu Dec 21 09:33:49 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:33:49 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Winter in a Range Rover I am looking forward to spending my first winter in New England with my '90 Range Rover. Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime, such as starting, etc, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions for what to do to avoid them? Sanjay Prasad '90 Range Rover Boston, Massachusetts U.S.A. e-mail: prasad@ba-iplaw.com From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 21 08:29:34 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:29:34 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing Val wrote: > Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap. I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black (I donno, there is something about black spray paint that just *talks* to me...). OTOH, since I'm going to be taking the whole thing apart, I might as well have them re-galvanized, too. My $.02 Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "Parts is Parts" From Brad Taylor Thu Dec 21 07:33:44 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 07:33:44 MST From: Brad Taylor Subject: disco CD changer Is there any experiance fitting an after-market CD changer to a disco? Is there some special magic in the Land Rover CD changer which makes it the only option? Brad From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 21 08:41:43 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:41:43 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton >Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer No! I want 'em! :-) Tim --- tim harincar, aka the Scavenger harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Donald Abbot Thu Dec 21 17:01:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:01:11 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Donald Abbot Subject: Re: Whit On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Wouter de Waal wrote in response to Mike: > So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four > spanners or one shifter? You mean a Free State micrometer? Donald From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:03:07 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:03:07 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? How about the oil seals at front/rear of the transfer case? Oil leaks out of the main 'box into the transfer case,then out of the transfer case back to nature,thoughtfully rust proofing the X-member on the way.Nothing goes to waste.Clever people at Land Rover,arent they? Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:29:10 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:29:10 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: re: Cappings and Galvanizing >> Or should I forget it all and slap on some cheesy silver paint? >No! Thats *exactly* what it will look like - cheesy silver paint. My PO did >that to all my galvanized pieces and it looks like crap. >I've actually had the heathenistic thought of re-painting them all black What I did was to use some matt grey zinc rich primer,brushed on.They sometimes call it cold galvanisation paint.Looks quite nice,IMO. Apart from the rusty cappings,some twerp had painted round the windshield with *copper* coloured paint! I did this two-three years ago,the Rover lives outside,due to the two unfortunate circumstances of having an old wooden floored garage,and a certain reluctance to qualify for the Lugnut Award,by being the first bloke ever to put his Land Rover through the *floor* of a garage.(Through the back wall is old stuff,its been done before).Anyway,the grey paint is still OK. Cheers Mike Rooth From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Dec 21 10:40:21 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:40:21 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Phoenix You wrote "Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix weather in the dead of summer? After all, he'd have to .sig his messages with 'Gerry "Phx high: 125" Elam' ..." Bummer... today was the first day that I've put on long pants since moving here. :-( BTW: 125 degrees is hot no matter how low the humidity. The worst day this summer was 123! And, the way I look at it, it's four months of hell for 8 months of bliss! The summers also keeps everyone else from moving here too! And to make it worse, the off-roading is superb! Have a Merry Christmas! Gerry "only up to 62 today" Elam From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Thu Dec 21 10:48:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:48:00 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Series I Dear all, Mark Talbot asked about Series I's. The SI grew from 80" to 86" in 1953. Taking off your FWHubs? Why? The hubs are a great thing that add versatility to your Rover. Really, how many people have broken a half shaft, on a hill, with the hubs disengaged, then at the same time had your brakes totally fail, so you roll down and hit someone! Isn't that sort of over thinking the possibilities. Fuel mileage, top speed, less wear and tear on the tires, easier streering, on and off road versatility, listen to your fellow digest contributors, they are giving you good advice. Mike Smith, ECR From "Craig R. Jett" Thu Dec 21 10:55:44 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:55:44 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: Wading the Disco In response to a recent thread I posted some pictures at http://www.voicenet.com/~cjett/interest.html. As you will see, my 95 Disco swam through water 3/4 of the way up the door. Not a cough or any other protest from the Disco. Also not a drop of water inside. By the way, this was on a rally sponsered by Cherry Hill Imports of NJ, USA. Just thought some you might be interested. Craig Jett 95 Alpine White Discovery I wave to everyone, every car that I pass, just so no one will feel left out. I also take it off road whenever possible! From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 15:35:25 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:35:25 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Freewheel Insecurity >>>Trevor "I'm taking off my Warns" Easton >>Alan "If you do I'll buy 'em"Richer >No! I want 'em! :-) I suppose the next best offer in this auction is when someone asks Trevor to pay *them* to take 'em off his hands........ Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Dec 21 16:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:36:59 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Whit >> So - if I have four bolts, 1/4" BSW, BSF, BA and AF (?) I would need four >> spanners or one shifter? >You mean a Free State micrometer? Or a Yorkshire Slide Rule. Mike Rooth From 21 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 21 Dec 95 12:15:21 EST From: Subject: Off road contest d90 v disco Lzeltzer asked about the off road comparison between the d90 and discovery back in Sept. (or was it October) i attended the bsroa fall off road meet in the Berkshire's (part of western mass) with my (auto)Discovery. 2 other Discovery owners attended, a few series and a swarm of d90s. As amazing as the discovery is it is not as good as NAS D90. 1: the tires (BFG) given the vehicle an inch or so extra ground clearance (regular uk 90s don't have this set up therefore no advantage but I hear that it is an option over there). this has to help in extreme conditions but wasn't an issue (very dry conditions) during the weekend. 2: shorter wheelbase on the D90. Seven inches may not sound like much but it makes a bit difference in a forest. On one particular spot when a big rock including a sharp left turn needed to be negotiated, while everyone made it up ok, but the Discos all clonked the rear bumper area (no damage seen) as the longer wheelbase forces the rear wheel to inscribe a smaller circle while turning on a disco than a 90. 3: the difference in departure angles adds to this problem. Solution to these problems would be taking a wider turn. but it sure was tight at times in the front making sure that the trees and the front fender (english=wing) did not become aquainted. Made it down with a clonk, but not before the vehicle demonstrated an excellent crossaxle with a front left wheel waving in the air, the rear left wheel getting awful close to the underseal with the rear right waving too I am told. It sure makes for a beautiful video shot. So the D90 is better off road make no mistake. But the Discovery is extremely competent(i lost count of the times I thought I couldn't do that - but did). regards chris browne 95 disco (why has my rear door stopped squeaking/my stereo buzzes when i turn it on/my steering wheel squeaks) Brit in Boston great snow around here in last couple of days From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Thu Dec 21 09:37:46 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 09:37:46 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma The big difference seems to be clearance and attitude. The D90 just has a lot more clearance. Offroad on tight trails it makes a big difference. Have also noticed that (please, no flames, this is a generalization and I'm know there are exceptions, but this has been holding true most part) that Disco owners aren't nearly as willing to risk dents as D90 owners. In fact most of the D90 owners I know have dings and dents due to off road driving. It is a matter of degree. I'd guess that Discos will handle 95%+ of off road trails with the same degree of aplomb that D90s do. On the other hand, "serious" offroaders tend to seek out those 5% of the trails other vehicles have trouble with and spend their time there. One approach you might consider would be to buy a Disco and drive it offroad. Where you find deficiencies in its performace you can correct them with aftermarket accessories. You'll still have the comfort of a Discovery but with the right stuff you'll end up better off road then a stock D90. (AirLockers, bigger more aggressive tires, skid plates, winch, side sill protection would be on the top of my list. After, basic safety stuff of course.) The downside is that the window of opportunity on obtaining D90s is small. If money is no object I'd buy the D90 SW and see how it works. If you don't like it you can sell it (to me :) ) and pick up a Disco. The reverse is likely to be impossible or significantly harder. In general I've found driver attitude and skill more important than the LR being driven. Tires and lockers seem to make the most difference after that. Clearance then becomes key. The D90 has much more aggressive tires and much more clearance then the Disco. The mystery as to why neither has factory lockers may never be solved....... -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Dec 21 09:44:45 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:44:45 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma In message <199512201329.IAA05318@butler.uk.stratus.com> Lee Zeltzer writes: ; ; > Realisticly how does the D90 compare to the Disco off road? Is it really a > better vehicle or do real men just drive D or series rovers? ; I think which car is better depends upon where you drive. Both cars will probably do just as well in open offroading. The Disco will give you better misquito protection and will allow yo to drive in air conditioned comfort out of the dust while listening to your favorate CDs. But if you head out to places where the mud is deep or your crawling over rocks, the D90 is the best of the breed hands down. According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders they sell. Mostly men purchase Discos. But I will have to admit a lot more men then women own series Land Rovers. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Dec 21 09:17:10 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:17:10 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES In message <199512200215.VAA04486@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: > HEY Y'ALL, > Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco >; fitting a series Rover.Well I talked to my local Land Rover dealer (Jax FL) > and > he said that all of the Discos come with aluminum wheels.Does anyone know of ; other dealers that would be willing to ship some.Also what size tires are > people ; using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16. Last time I looked the spare wheel was steel. Go back to your local Disco dealer and ask to look at a spare tyre (ie have them take the cover off the spare on one of the cars). I have a set of these 7 inch wide black wheels on my 109. They fit nicely. I'm running 265/70/16 B F Goodrich Mud Terrains on my 109. Fits nicely. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 21 12:38:33 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:38:33 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Trans leaks like a sieve - but from where? Alan, I'd find a place that steam cleans and get it clean as possible then keep a close eye on it to see what gets dirty. I've seen the drain plugs leak if the washers are totally crushed. > More to the point, any suggestions on FIXING the beast? The easiest way to fix LR oil leaks is to sell it, although I wouldn't suggest doing that. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 21 13:49:38 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:49:38 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: snow -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Thursday, 21-Dec-95 09:22 AM > From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus \ Internet: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Subject: Re: snow > What' it take to fit a plow to a Rover? I was thinking of my 109.....but I've > heard that this can cause real chassis problems. > Info, please? > ajr > To: Ron Franklin \ Internet: (oldhaven@biddeford.com) -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Fit up isn't too bad if you have a plow rig that was designed for a Rover originally. That way all the parts fit within reason, and you don't have to be anything but hand tool proficient. Adapting a rig designed for a Jeep or other small 4wd is also possible if you can cut and weld, and I've done it, but better to trust the engineers at Fisher, and try to locate a used Rover setup. Be sure to get all the parts, even if the PO doesn't want to do the work to remove them from his vehicle. The important parts are the ones unique to the Rover, and include things you don"t normally think of like an add-on or double pulley to drive the Hydraulics, the mounting fixture for the Hydraulic pump, and all the parts and pieces which mount the operating cables to the valve and the dashboard. If everything is there, and working, you should be able to set yourself up for plowing in a day, assuming you've had the good sense to do this in September, and aren't working in icewater or a snowdrift. After the initial installation, it takes about an hour in the fall and again in the spring to put on or remove the pieces you will or won't need for the next 6 months( assuming you get that much winter). You can fit the actual plow in about five minutes, depending on your back condition for the last little alignment of the plow to the frame. Fisher plows, with which I am most familiar, come in a couple of different varieties for LR's. One has all the cylinders attached to the plow itself, and the other leaves the lifting cylinder attached to the vehicle when the plow is removed. They both work well, as I have used both, though I prefer the former, since it leaves less stuff on the vehicle in the off season. The plow frame under the vehicle reduces ground clearance drastically, but can be removed fairly easily for the summer, as mentioned above, along with the drive belt for the hyd. pump. Both of these types are designed so that a Koenig winch can still be mounted, and I recommend some sort of winch since you will undoubtedly bury youself in a drift several times a season. As for wear and tear, if you are going to plow for a living, get yourself a big Ford, and don't worry if it destroys itself in 4 or 5 years. I plow 4 or 500 feet of driveway from 10 to 20 times a year. I'm not in a hurry, and take my time and enjoy it. The 88 I use was originally fitted with the plow in 1965, and the man I bought it from had used it every winter for plowing. The original frame is still in very good shape, though I had to repair a crack which developed, In believe, by allowing the plow frame to get loose, allowing it to move around and stress the Rover frame. I would definitely not put a plow on a questionable frame because it will put a strain on it. Wear on the clutch, steering and suspension will be more than normal, but what are these things for, sitting in the garage, or out getting used? You will need to replace your front springs with the hd type eventually, but might as well use up the ones already on. I personally find the 88 handier for plowing since it will get into and out of tighter places. But I'm sure a 109 would do alright if you are patient and don't have too many twists in your drive. So, if your LR already has a scratch or two, and you are the type who can avoid hitting any thing too big too fast because you are not in a hurry, I'd say put on a plow and have a good time. From Easton Trevor Thu Dec 21 13:55:00 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:55:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Wrenches Many years ago (about 30) I encountered a set of spanners from France which worked by driving on the face of the hex rather than the corner. These I see now available from Snap On in the form of their "Flank Drive". They come as open, box and socket versions and really are a superior method of turning nuts. They will even successfully remove nuts that have been abused and have practically no corners left. Trouble is the're so good that in the small sizes its very easy to shear bolts by overtightening them. The configuration means that they will fit a large variety of sizes not just the AF size they were made for. Unfortunately coming from Snap-On they are pricy but worth it in the long run. (what price skinned knuckles?) Trevor Easton From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 21 13:59:41 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 13:59:41 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90 v.s. Disco Hi all, Chris Browne is right I was also at the BSROA fall event and the Down East Rally in Maine. D90's definitely have the advantage when the trail gets tight, tough, and nasty. In Maine the Disco's and Rangie's were bottoming out in the deep mud and rock trail, and having a time climbing this one steep, slippery, very rutted hill. When our turn came I was nervous after hearing vehicles in front of us bashing things underneath. I had just bought the LR in May and didn't know it's full potential yet. The D90 with the BFG M/T's went right up! I couldn't believe it! I have traveled some trails where I live in western Mass. that were all large rocks. With careful wheel placement, the extra clearance, better aproach and departure angles the D90 made it easily. Truly amazing! I bought my D90 for just this reason I wanted the best performing off-road vehicle I could get my hands on. With that said I have to admit that when I saw where the Disco's and Rangie's went I was truly surprised. The D90 is a more capable off-roader but the difference was no where as great as I would have thought! Happy Holidays! Barnett Childress 95 D90 From russ burns Thu Dec 21 11:06:45 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:06:45 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Purchasing dilemma I have driven both off road. If you will include a 91 R-Rover as an old disco. I think the Disco/R-ROver with an auto is the best off-road vehicle I have driven. The Auto trans makes a joke out of rock crawling. The ability to downshift on the fly takes all the fun out of climbing hills. The longer wheelbase seems to make hill climbing easier. The engine braking in low low is adequate. I will admit the 2 inches less of ground clearance will get you stuck in the mud a little sooner, and the trailer hitch tends to drag on some of those rock ledges, and of course you have to make a couple of cuts to get around trees you can't run over. But is the same breath I will admit I would rather be driving the D-90 instead of the R-Rover. No it is not the fear of denting the poor thing (I have a dent in every fender), but the those flat fenders are a great place to fix lunch on, and your beer does not slide off..... I find it interesting 5/8 of the D-90 buyers are women. Maybe that explains why my wife is not complaining about the D-90 SW I am getting here. She said to surprise her.... Russ Burns 91 R-ROver 94 D-90 At 09:44 AM 12/21/95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >According to my local Land Rover dealer, women purchase 5/8s of the Defenders >they sell. Mostly men purchase Discos. But I will have to admit a lot more men >then women own series Land Rovers. >TeriAnn [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >TeriAnn >twakeman@apple.com Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From William Owen Thu Dec 21 14:45:20 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:45:20 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Disco v. RR classic On the subject of comparisons, how do those who have experienced both off-road think the old RR compares to the Disco. It seems they would be similar except for maybe approach/ departure angles and the center diff. Of course the old RR's smaller 205 tires probably hinder it too. (can you upgrade to 235 or so without problems?) Any thoughts? Still searching for MY 89 Range Rover, William From Sanna@aol.com Thu Dec 21 15:53:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:53:47 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover >>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime My '89 RR starts like a champ in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago - still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that temperature. The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few miles and the normally supple suspension seems a bit hard & brittle. My only problem with Annabelle is the heater temp. It's sort of like my old Volvo's A/C. If you're going on a trip it'll get the car comfortable, but forget comfort on the short haul around town. So, here's a question for all of you out there in Range Roverland: Is there a thermostat swap that would cure my woes (and frozen toes)? Will the typical vanilla-flavored US auto store variety work in a RR or do I need something "British"? With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the scale. Oh yes, other cold weather problems inherant to RRs is the VERY poor design of the rear window latch. It sits inside a little cup that is faced up, so it collects & freezes any moisture that's around. Lock deicer should be standard issue for cold-weather RRs. Tony From Sanna@aol.com Thu Dec 21 15:55:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:55:47 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover (#2) >>Has anyone had particular problems in the wintertime More.... If you have front or rear lamp gaurds, these are great for collecting snow and covering the lights. From William Owen Thu Dec 21 15:01:36 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:01:36 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Consumer Reports hits Disco again Did anyone see CR's latest shot at the Disco. In a follow up to it's not so great review, CR now questions the off road ability of the disco, the only thing it got credit for in the first report. They said the steering components (?) are too low and exposed. Their disco's steering was damaged when they hit a hole on a dirt road. Basically they told readers not to buy a disco for its off rd ability. I wonder what would have happened to an explorer/Jeep GC on the same hole and if CR's driver knows dip about driving off rd. The shame is that some people who really want a capable off rd vehicle are going to be influenced away from one of the best on the market by this report. On the bright side, less demand means lower prices for me :) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 21 14:01:04 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:01:04 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again I wouldn't worry about the impact "Consumer Reports" has on people looking for an "off-road" vehicle. Mainly because it's the LAST place they'd look for information on off-road capabilities. To date, "Consumer Reports" is the only negative report on the Discovery I've seen. All others are fair and accurate in their reviews. OTOH, if you are looking for a 4WD mall-wagon, the CR is probably a reasonable source of info. ---------- From Russell U Wilson Thu Dec 21 17:30:48 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: 1970 light wht for sale in Pa. For anyone interested in a vehicle that is in such a condition that it could place in any British Car show you'd want to take it to drop me a note for more information. This Rover is in close to mint condition and is presently in a garage in the Pittsburgh area. The owner is a friend and I am acting as the seller because of his hectic schedule. Russ 67' 88 "The Pig" From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Dec 21 18:46:38 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:46:38 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: 'Cappings' and rivet etiquette #2 >Did you replace the original round-head rivets with the same? I've >only used the "pop" rivet tool which has the ones with the hole in the >center. How are the round head ones different to replace? I think >the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer >the original look of them. How many friends do you have? I ask this because it will sway your decision. Pop rivets...one man job. "Round head" rivets...two man job. Pop rivets are available with the blind end either 'open' or 'closed'. Not surprisingly, open end rivets are more widely available as they are cheaper. Closed end rivets are supposed to be water resistant as they effectively seal up the hole. In either case, they're easier to use than the "old fashioned' round head rivets on the Rover because they use a special tool and install from the outside. Us uppity Series Rover owners always use closed pop rivets, keeps out the elements! If you insist on the real thing you'll need the help of another pair of hands to "back" the rivet head as you round it over on the inside (these contortions are always amusing to your helper). There are special tools that fit the particular size rivet you are assaulting. A capable hardware person should know what you're talking about. A word about galvanic corrosion: be sure to use like metals when using fasteners. Steel rivets (or any fastener) in aluminum is a no-no as the combination of moisture and electrons eat the contacting surfaces into oblivion.I'd splurge and buy the official Rover Rivets because the engineers have spec'ed the rivets to take this phenomenon into account. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Dec 21 18:59:11 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:59:11 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: RE: Consumer Reports hits Disco again CR staffers are paid to figure out the WRONG way to do everything. They succeed in spades. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Thu Dec 21 20:08:47 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:08:47 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Winter in a Range Rover >in the Wisconsin cold (-28 F a few weeks ago - >still air, not wind chill), although it has its quirks & groans at that >temperature. The power stearing feels a little leaden for the first few >miles When I replaced my steering pump, I changed to Amsoil synthetic ATF in the power steering system. This eliminated the cold weather sluggishness completely. > With my current set-up, my temp gauge spends most of >the summer on the edge of the red and wintertimes at the very bottom of the >scale. Sounds like you have cooling system problems. My 88 RR runs just below half scale winter or summer under most all conditions. I have gone through 3 temp guage sender units though. If you're still running the factory thermostat, you should first try replacing it. Cheers, Randall From David Place Thu Dec 21 21:35:21 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 21:35:21 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Gearbox treatments. I use Slick 50 in my IIA in the gearbox, the difs, the main sump and the balls mixed with grease. It really works well even at cold temps. What I noticed most is the reduction in noise once the stuff had a few minutes to circulate around. It has a good gling property that seems to help the engine on start up so we don't get as much lifter rattle before the pump comes up to pressure. Go ahead and use it Danny, it seems to work great. Dave VE4PN From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 21 22:58:18 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 22:58:18 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightweight for sale in PA Would someone kindly send me the posting on the 1970 lightweight for Sale in PA ...I deleted it by mistake..Thanks Steve Bradke 72 s lll 88 From jpappa01@interserv.com Thu Dec 21 20:32:04 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:32:04 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: A Good Wish To all LROs: I sincerely wish every LRO anywhere the happiest of holidays and a great 1996! I've enjoyed reading the list every night since I went on-line. Even when I trudge up to my little escape over the garage at 11PM, I read the list before working on the newsletter and the inevitable passing out on top of the keyboard. The n-key rollover finally wakes me up with its chirping! 1995 was an exciting world in the LR world. 1996 will continue the pattern. Even though the Defender is taking a break, the rumors will be rampant for 1997 with who knows what coming down the road. Stretch Disco? New model Landy? Will Defender come back? We'll all wait and see together. If nothing else, there should be some lively stuff on the list! Meanwhile, I stare at my reconstructed NADA 6-cyl chassis laying on the garage floor - dreaming of the time that I'll *HAVE* the time to put poor old Big Red right again! And then I need to make it up to M'ville to retreive my poor old 2A and get her finished. The recent resurgence in Series cars restos and frame ups has been nothing short of astonishing! Scan the prices in the ABP and RN lists to see what I'm talking about! But when all of the hoopla is stripped away, its just you in your trusty Land Rover and the feeling that you get no matter what or when. Tough to put into words to a non-LRO. Yep, the feeling. Nothing else quite like them, is there? See you on (and off) the trail in 1996! cheers Jim - 2 more years and my 2A will be 30!! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Lloyd Allison Fri Dec 22 16:34:36 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:34:36 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: broken half shafts Shafts twist on a trail then work harden and snap in the car park a week or three later - quite common with non Salisbury axles. If you check them after the hard trip and find a twist (usually at the inner splines) it saves a lot of bother to replace them before they actually fail. Lloyd From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Fri Dec 22 12:00:13 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:00:13 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: D90 w/alum hardtop available If anyones looking for a new D90 with the aluminium hardtop, there's a white one in a dealer showroom in eastern Pennsylvania still available. Unfortunately at the moment, I just can't swing it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be telling you all! If you're interested, send me a note and I'll provide the info. Cheers, Randall 88RR 67IIASWB 70P6B From Willyz@aol.com Fri Dec 22 12:59:41 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:59:41 -0500 From: Willyz@aol.com Subject: 4 Ranchos for $100? Whoever was suggesting "Four Wheel Parts Wholesalers" as a source of Ranchos @$25 should be a little wary of that outfit. A few years ago I ordered a set of shocks (Doetsch Techs (sp?) and not for my Rover), that were listed very inexpensively. When I received them they were similiar in appearance to DT's but I noticed the bodies were stamped with various numbers and the words "ProComp", which I believe is a cheap aftermarket shock manufacturer. Out of curiosity I called DT directly and explained the situation. They explained how 4WPW was notorious for selling "counterfit" parts. They were VERY interested in getting their hands on the shocks I had been sent and arranged for me to receive four of the "real thing" and picked up the "fakes" The four shocks they sent were indeed Doetsch Tech shocks and were stamped accordingly. Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded but I would be careful ordering from them. Bill Kaszer S3 SW From russ burns Fri Dec 22 09:56:21 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:56:21 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: more on gearbox oils The D-90 with the lt77s uses ATF. It also has a pump and filter. I also believe the new RS380? uses ATF also. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 At 02:59 PM 12/22/95 GMT, Danny Phillips wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Dear all, I have got back some info on treatments to gearbox oils etc, thansk [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >i hope i have read that wrong but i am sure thats what it said. anyone know >for sure. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Fri Dec 22 13:08 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 13:08 EST From: jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Subject: Re: Thermal differences >Has anyone besides me noticed that Gerry Elam never gloats about Phoenix >weather in the dead of summer? After all, he'd have to .sig his messages [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >> Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam >Ah, but it's *dry* heat, right Gerry? My mother says, "He's an Elam. Elams do that." My mother is an Elam too, so I can say that. Anyway, I was in Phoenix last week, and when it was 55 out, people were complaining about how cold it was. It is amazing to me that Flagstaff's high can be lower than their low, and it only take two hours to drive between the two. James Howard jhoward@argus.lowell.edu 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From Wdcockey@aol.com Fri Dec 22 15:03:17 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:03:17 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: more on gearbox oils >however, i am sure when i read the haynes manual at home last >night, it said even the manual gearbox uses automatic transmission fluid I don't know about specific use of ATF in LR transmissions. Many automakers started using ATF in manual transmissions in the late seventies/early eighties to reduce driveline losses and improve fuel economy. If your specific transmission calls for it use it. If it doesn't don't. ATF is probably the most highly developed "oil" in common use, and performs great in the applications engineered for it. Manual transmissions have to be re-engineered to use it and live. From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Fri Dec 22 13:12:41 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:12:41 -0500 (EST) From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: MAIL MADNESS Anyone else on the list getting several full week-old copies of the Digest from Mailer-Daemon@usaid.gov? What gives? This stuff is filling my mailbox. Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIa 88" SW Beckett Klay Communications 100 West Road Baltimore, Maryland 21204 USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From scoghill@starnetinc.com (Skip Coghill) Fri Dec 22 15:15:28 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:15:28 -0600 From: scoghill@starnetinc.com (Skip Coghill) Subject: My Discovery Observation Hi, New to the list here. Thought I would put my input on the one item that I noticed differently from every other car I have owned: It put a smile on my face when I purchased my first bottle of washer solution yesterday and installed it in my Discovery. This is the first time in my life that the reservoir completely swallowed the WHOLE bottle and I did not have to store 22% of the remaining solution in my garage or top off my wives car. Guess its' the small things in life that make me happy! :-) Skip Coghill From "Tom Rowe" Fri Dec 22 14:43:55 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:43:55 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: MAIL MADNESS Chris Stevens fumes: > Anyone else on the list getting several full week-old copies of the Digest > from Mailer-Daemon@usaid.gov? What gives? This stuff is filling my mailbox. Some people have full mailboxes, the receiving server is returning the mail to the list and apparently the major doesn't know the difference, thinks it's a posting and sends it out again. Infinite loop. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Dec 22 12:46:52 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:46:52 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: My Discovery Observation Skip Coghill writes: :It put a smile on my face when I purchased my first bottle of washer :solution yesterday and installed it in my Discovery. This is the first :time in my life that the reservoir completely swallowed the WHOLE bottle :and I did not have to store 22% of the remaining solution in my garage or :top off my wives car. : :Guess its' the small things in life that make me happy! :-) Speak for yourself Skip! Did you see the Discovery recall notice last week?? Apparently the windshield washer fluid tube develops a small leak over the view port and drains the entire contents into the engine sump. Any white liquid coming off the end of your dipstick? Take it in and have it checked! Happy Holidays!! \ / -- o -- ______ / \ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html PS- Just kidding! =:o From David Place Fri Dec 22 17:37:57 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 17:37:57 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: broken half shafts I saw a very good trick in one of my hot rod mags. The fellows who race and drag often paint a straight white line down the axle when they first install them. From time to time the check the axle, and if the line isn't straight they know the axle has twisted and they change it before it costs them a race. This might be a good trick if you were going on a real safari and didn't want to have an axle failure in the outback, otherwise it would be a bit of overkill for most of us. Not a bad idea however. Dave VE4PN From Christopher Boese Fri Dec 22 14:57:09 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:57:09 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Camel Trophy article Hello, all. Here's a link to an article in the online version of The Detroit News newspaper on the Camel Trophy. The picture alone is worth the look: http://detnews.com/AUTOS/0802/auto0802.htm The warmest and happiest Christmas to everyone! -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black Discovery V8i From rmodica@east.pima.edu Fri Dec 22 16:55:15 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:55:15 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Disco SRS light Happy Holidays to All, Just got back from a 240 mile trip to the dealer to diagnose the trouble with my SRS light. A month ago I had removed the battery to clean off corrosion and upon reinstallation the air bag SRS light remained on. A phone call to the dealer got me nowhere so I drove up to Phoenix to have them take a look. Once hooked up to the computer/CD diagnostic machinery the tech said nothing was wrong. It seems that when current is interrupted the circuit sends an error message and the SRS light stays on. There is apprently NO way to turn it off except at the dealer's tech station. In the future the tech told me to hook up a spare battery to the cables and keep the system at 12v. YRMV. While I was there I inquired about steel wheels from the Defenders. I was told that the 95 D-90s all came with alloy wheels. They said the steel wheels on 94 D-90s were all replaced at the port and the steel wheels scrapped since they didn't meet DOT standards. When I mentioned that other LROs online had purchased said steel wheels, they just repeated their story-- all steel wheels were replaced at Port Of Entry and scrapped. YSMV Rob Modica 51 SI 80" 60 SII 109" Safari Tucson AZ 94 Disco 5spd Casper From TONY YATES Sat Dec 23 10:55:52 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 10:55:52 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: oil additives While on the subject of oil additives, I just saw an ad for Mecacyl. Anyone had any experience with this one? Here are some of the claims they make: "Mecacyl is not a surface coating nor an oil-enhancer but is the first Intra Metallic Hyper Lubricating agent (sheesh!) of all meatls giving mechanical devices total liberation(!) due to near zero(!!!) friction levels." "the engine is under no friction stress and can operate to its fullest efficiency" "After the first treatment with Mecacyl, the engine runs smoother and/or picks up RPM immediately, and after the third treatment the engine has turbine-like acceleration and noise." From TONY YATES Sat Dec 23 11:06:04 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 11:06:04 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: oil additives...more sorry folks, accidentally hit the send button. Here's more: "engine noise is decreased, normal running temperature is decreased by 14.35 degrees (very precise eh?!), exhaust fumes are drastically decreased by up to 20%. Fumes due to oil burning are reduced by 30-98%, and fuel consumption reduced on average between 8-16%" "Mecacyl must be used on machines that still have potential(!!), as it is not the panacea for engines about to terminate their life." Sounds great doesn't it. Should be compulsory. Hmmm. Unfortunately I'm a little cynical about these things as, in my younger days, I used Teflon based products on two motors, both of which subsequently went downhill rapidly, one self destructing. Just wondered if anyone has heard of it/used it. Comes from Europe apparently. Season's greetings to everyone, keep on 'roving in '96. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|========From Lloyd Allison Sat Dec 23 21:22:28 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 21:22:28 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: snow-plough and PTFE Can anyone provide a picture (pref' tif or jpeg) of a Landy with a snow plough fitted please - not a common sight in oz! PTFE additives seem to be not recommended in engines especially. I copied a report some time ago - look up PTFE in database if interested. Lloyd From lopezba@atnet.at Sat Dec 23 13:39:35 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 13:39:35 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Cappings and rivets The thread was: >>Vel, Vel, Vel- Rovers are riveted together so that body panel repair can= be >>done easily in the field. My technique for speedy aluminum rivet removal: >Ah. I don't know what I was thinking. I forgot that the simplicity >and practicality of the LR also included body panels. :-) >>Obtain a sharp carpenters chisel and keep it sharp as you are working. >>Using a light to medium hammer, drive the chisel between the rivet head= and > [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >>For steel, copper and other metals, I recommend drilling or grinding off= the >>tail of the rivet and then carefully driving it out from the inside. >I don't have much experience w/ rivets, so please bear with me while I >ask some more basic questions... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >the round head ones look much nicer on the cappings and would prefer >the original look of them. >>I don't know about your area but I take small stuff for galvanizing to a= >>place up in Baltimore, where they usually charge me $10-50 depending on= the >>size. I've had lots of boat parts and anchor chain dipped, which they'll= do >>as a side job. >I thought I'd do that while I'm here in the UK where replacement parts >are cheaper and plentiful. (I also need to replace the left rear end >panel due to a good sized dent/hole from the PO.) >>Don't paint those things it'll look cheesy. >I agree. I'd rather have mine rusty and original than painted and >tacky. I was being only half serious. One company that still provides rivets for Series vehicles is Wadsworth Panels 1 Steele Lane Barkisland, Halifax, West Yorks. Tel/Fax (UK) 01422 822200 >From an ad: 50 off 3/16 inch round head aluminium rivets (for fixing cappings etc) GBP= 3.00 Formed punch for use with above rivets GBP= 5.50 50 off 5mm Rover flat head type al rivest (for fixing door seals and door panels) GBP= 4.00 Formed punch for use with above rivets GBP= 10.50 100 off 3/16 inch blind rivets (for fixing cappings etc.) GBP= 2.00 They also make very nice front bumpers, wing panels, door panels and tailgates for Series Ones, and they advertise water pumps for same. My only connection with them is thru the purchase of a front bumper, and I= was very pleased with that. Season=B4s greetings Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Sat Dec 23 09:55:15 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:55:15 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Merry Christmas Hi folks, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Land Rover folks out there, and may your Rovers last forever. Cheers......................... Richard From LTC Larry Smith Sat Dec 23 10:29:55 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 10:29:55 EST (1529Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Merry Christmas To all, I have been lurking and contributing to the list for a few months now. It has been a real pleasure for me to "meet" everyone and share ideas, tips, woes, and triumphs. I think Mr. Honda had it right back in the '60s - but with the wrong vehicle. You meet the nicest people in a Land Rover! My best holiday greeting to all! Hope to meet more of you "right" coast LROs in the coming year. Larry From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 23 08:08:49 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 08:08:49 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Undeliverable Message At 04:48 22.12.95 -30000, MAILER-DAEMON@usaid.gov wrote: > The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is > 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. 10,000 messages?! 1,000 messages?! I'd say somebody forgot to unsubscribe when he left his post. Cheers! John From "John C. White, III" Sat Dec 23 08:08:56 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 08:08:56 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: My Discovery Observation Just kidding?! There's an especially hot little corner of Hell reserved for you, Michael. May your god go up in smoke! Just kidding. John '95 Discovery (Open wide and say, "Ah.") At 12:46 22.12.95 +0000, Michael Carradine wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Skip Coghill writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 36 lines)] > Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html > PS- Just kidding! =:o From KKelly6788@aol.com Sat Dec 23 15:16:06 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 15:16:06 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Coil Wire I noticed that the coil wire of my '89 Range Rover with a 3.9L V8 was rubbing against the heat shield behind the alternator. I put a piece of rubber over the wire to stop the wear. I mentioned this to a Land Rover mechanic and he said it was a common problem. I hope everyone has a great Christmas. Kevin Kelly From Dmvt Sat Dec 23 22:09:12 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 22:09:12 +-100 From: Dmvt Subject: 2.5 Diesel engines I'm planning to buy an 1979 88'' LR SIII 2.5 D. Now I'm wondering is this a standard rover engine? Or is this a Mercedes engine? Either way how much bhp should it give? Thanx in advance, Dennis van Turnhout - Taz@pi.net From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Dec 23 18:14:35 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:14:35 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: get lro digest 21/12 get lro-owner 21/12/ From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Dec 23 18:38:37 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:38:37 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: digest from 12 21 needed would someone please foreward the digest from 12/ 21 to me.............. thanks Merry Christmas Steve Bradke 72 s lll 88 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sat Dec 23 18:12:17 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:12:17 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: My Discovery Observation John C. White, III writes: :Just kidding?! There's an especially hot little corner of Hell :reserved for you, Michael. May your god go up in smoke! :Just kidding. Ha, ha!! Still trying to get people to join you there, eh?? David Dodell writes: :Michael, is this a real recall, or were you joking by the PS-Just :Kidding! at the end of your message? Yes David, "Just kidding!" means: Just kidding! To paraphrase Bill Adams , In '96 and beyond, May all your troubles be Rover! Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Dec 23 07:08:57 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 07:08:57 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Christmas Message To all of you out there from myself and Andy and our "fleet of Land Rover products" we wish you a Happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year with plenty of mud and oem parts at discount prices! rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Dec 22 22:49:01 1995 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 22:49:01 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: New NAS D90 Land Rover Toy News Well that didnt take very long did it! Andy my pal was out shopping the other day and as we toy collectors do he went through the kids selection of toys. Te On the shelf, large as life ( about 6 inches long) sat a Defender 90 NAS hard top ingreen with the grey hard top. It is a ripcord typre friction toy, driving only the rear axlebut it fair zips accross the kitchen table! The vehcile is really quite a faithfull reproduction right down to the turn signals in the bumpers! The DEFENDER logo is accross the top of the windshield and a 4 X 4 decal in the rear side window. The wheels are the five spokes with some pretty close to oem looking tyres. The proportions look really good all around on this baby, it comes with brush bar on the front, again a real oem look, and nerf bars on the side. If you want to find fault you can, there is none of the roll cage over the top or infront of the winshield. The rear axle is a bit far forward and the rear side panel lacks some of the lower part. This being a toy it has a mould plastic base which, listen for it, CLANG, has leaf spings!! This toy is in limted supply around here. It's maker is Lanard and this is in the Supershots line of toys. If I can lay my hands on enough of these I will be doing custom paint jobs to order in all the D90 NAS colours, email me to register your interest. TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jpappa01@interserv.com Sat Dec 23 19:24:55 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 19:24:55 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D90 SW Some months back, when Discos were v-e-r-r-y tough to get, I posted some availability on the digest - without realizing that I had made a spam sandwich. I was promptly demolished in Perdition's flames for being a ****head salesman. But I thought without mentioning specifics it was a simple question of making people aware of an opportunity... I'm considering a web page for the dealership I work for down the road so that people have to seek our page for this type of info. So, forgive me for past transgressions, and forgive me in advance, but.... BTW, Metro West has stumbled into three more D90 SW's for January allocation, two of them still available. Will I get flamed for spamming or thanked for helping a couple of Roverheads find a couple of good homes for the last of an era? I hope the latter. Please post private enquiries to me. If I have offended anyone, I apologize in advance. I simply don't know how to reach a dedicated group such as us any quicker... BTW, there is a really cool D90 SW sales brochure which has just been released - similar to the D110 one a few years back. For brochure collectors - this one has to be right up there in desirability. I recommend descending upon your local LR purveyor to see if you can cop one. We had one box of them delivered to Metro West and they're already almost gone. Any *LOCAL* LROs in the Boston area are welcome to stop by and I'll hand out what few I have stashed. Due to demand and supply, I cannot mail them out however. The cover is what's neat - a relief of some mountain peaks with simple lettering - quite effective. Also neat in back is a shot of the new full length roof rack (almost identical to the NAS D110 rack) complete with chassis to rack ladder and support strut on right rear side. This means that the load is carried by the chassis and the front roll cage - *NOT* the aluminum roof gutter. So, it will fit on any NAS D90! Looks like Safety Device's work. Slick piece. No info on price yet. I will keep you posted on this. cheers Jim - out of control Rover enthusiast... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sat Dec 23 23:31:55 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 23:31:55 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Axle tips and others Dave Palce writes: >I saw a very good trick...often paint a straight white line down the axle Better still is to simply scratch a line with the tang of a file. WRT the thread on oil additives, I've used this stuff called DSX, the propaganda for which sounds a lot like that Mecacyl stuff. DSX is sub-micron in particle size and can't clump up like the Teflon stuff can. Originally, it was developed as an oil-free weapons lube just prior to Desert Storm, hence the name _D_esert _S_torm _E_xperimental. It can be used in both water- and oil-based formulations, and when used in firearms, it won't attract grit and dirt like oil can. It *seems* to do a good job in my 2.25: vacuum is (or rather was) up slightly and I could pull one long hill without downshifting like before application. (Could have been a tail wind though, as I have no way to quantify the results.) However, DSX surpasses every other lubricant in university testing. Kinda pricey stuff, tho' Merry Christmas to All...and may your Rover get frequent, regular oil changes (Dixon) in the coming year. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From fv67@dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 07 08:12:42 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:12:42 GMT From: fv67@dial.pipex.com Subject: discovery radio/Cas Help ive just brought a 1992 five door discovery but the radio just shows 154. any ideas. ive got the code but how do i program it in??? happy christmass andy waples From Mark Perry Sun Dec 24 02:41:47 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 02:41:47 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Canadian Ser1 & Fuel filler I've been unsubscribed and out of touch with the digest for a bit, but LRO Intl mag can't fill all the needs. Speaking of LRO Intl mag, I noticed in the current Readers' Rovers section a pic of a Series 1 with cut-back front wings, which were said to make it look like a version "used by the Canadian army." Is this so and who knows what about these models (Dixon K?) and have any survived? I also noticed in same issue that Canadian UNPROFOR contingent in Bosnia have been using three of the Courtlands composite-armored LRs. Probably some of the better kit our guys have, especially compared to the Iltis. The new Western Star trucks are no great shakes either, so one of the troops told me. I'm still looking for the telescopic filler extension, p/n 504656 for my 88" IIA. Local LROs, Octopus and Paul Safari couldn't turn one up for me here in Canada. Does anyone out there have one? It's no longer available as a separate item from Genuine Parts. Name your price. I have a few swappable parts also, if anyone's looking for something. Regards Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From fv67@dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 07 08:40:33 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:40:33 GMT From: fv67@dial.pipex.com Subject: discovery radio/Cas Help ive just brought a 1992 five door discovery but the radio just shows 154. any ideas. ive got the code but how do i program it in??? happy christmass andy waples From Oscar M Sun Dec 24 18:15:39 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 18:15:39 +0800 From: Oscar M Subject: Merry Christmas To all the regulars on this digest, their rovers, families, newbies and would bees : Merry Christmas to everyone. May one and all rover on this season and the next year. Oscar omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com Philippines From Igor Cerutti Sun Dec 24 12:47:05 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 12:47:05 +0100 From: Igor Cerutti Subject: Merry Christmas from Switzerland I'm not very active on the lro-mailing list, because of my english, but I want also to wish a Merry Christmas to everyone. SIII '88 Pick Up 1976 RR 3.5 Carb 1984 RR 3.5 Efi 1986 D90 Tdi 1993 kind regards ----------------------------------------------------------------- Real Name : Igor Cerutti Address : TINET Sagl, Centro Galleria 2, 6928 Manno-Lugano Country : Switzerland Phone Number : ++41 91 6108118 Fax Number : ++41 91 6108119 e-mail : igor@tinet.ch, http://www.tinet.ch From Russell Burns Sun Dec 24 9:07:35 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 9:07:35 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Merry Christmas T'was the night before Christmas and all through the land. not a rover was leaking, not even a series one oil pan. The rovers were all snug and warm in the garage, with visions of winches and romps through the mud. Mama in her nighty, and I in my rover cap had just sat on the couch for a camel trophy recap. When out on the garage there rose such a rattle I swore that my D-90 must have shorted out in battle. I rose from the couch in a rather quick fashion, and rushed to the garage to see what had happened. I threw open the door, turned on the light and to my great surprise, everything was all right. Then out on the drive I heard a man grumbling, something about sir Lucas and his great mental fumbling. As I peered out my window much to my surprise was jolly Saint Nick in an old green 109. The fenders were tattered, the bumper askew, the tires were smoking and letting off fumes, the hood was propped open, and tools askew as Jolly old Saint Nick quickly disappeared from my view. The light lights came on dimly, with the left one on first and jolly old Saint Nick let out another curse. The grounds, he was muttering as he came back in sight, a few whacks with a jack and bye gosh there was light. He gather his tools and slammed down the old hood, jumped into the rover and started to move. The diesel was clanking ,the smoke was a sight, as the old 109 slowly disappeared from my sight. I watched the lights blink, heard a cuss in the night "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night, Sir Lucas you A&^hole why can't you do anything right....." Russ Burns 91 Range ROver 94 D-90 From Russell Burns Sun Dec 24 9:07:35 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 9:07:35 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Merry Christmas T'was the night before Christmas and all through the land. not a rover was leaking, not even a series one oil pan. The rovers were all snug and warm in the garage, with visions of winches and romps through the mud. Mama in her nighty, and I in my rover cap had just sat on the couch for a camel trophy recap. When out on the garage there rose such a rattle I swore that my D-90 must have shorted out in battle. I rose from the couch in a rather quick fashion, and rushed to the garage to see what had happened. I threw open the door, turned on the light and to my great surprise, everything was all right. Then out on the drive I heard a man grumbling, something about sir Lucas and his great mental fumbling. As I peered out my window much to my surprise was jolly Saint Nick in an old green 109. The fenders were tattered, the bumper askew, the tires were smoking and letting off fumes, the hood was propped open, and tools askew as Jolly old Saint Nick quickly disappeared from my view. The light lights came on dimly, with the left one on first and jolly old Saint Nick let out another curse. The grounds, he was muttering as he came back in sight, a few whacks with a jack and bye gosh there was light. He gather his tools and slammed down the old hood, jumped into the rover and started to move. The diesel was clanking ,the smoke was a sight, as the old 109 slowly disappeared from my sight. I watched the lights blink, heard a cuss in the night "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night, Sir Lucas you A&^hole why can't you do anything right....." Russ Burns 91 Range ROver 94 D-90 From Russell Burns Sun Dec 24 9:16:08 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 9:16:08 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 SW > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > salesman. But I thought without mentioning specifics it was a simple question > of making people aware of an opportunity... I'm considering a web page for the I enjoy hearing your posts. If you sell used landrovers over this forum, why not new ones. I enjoy one of the few inroads this news group has to lrna. Keep up the good work. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 95 D-90 SW (still waiting) From "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> 24 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 24 Dec 95 12:48:24 EST From: "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> Subject: Salesmen I was reading Jim Pappas defensive comments. I am also in sales ( at Land-Rover Denver East). I have been seeing many offensive remarks aimed at sales people. Some sales people are rookies and may not have a lot of knowledge. Others are Land Rover owners like yourselves. Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because you are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap about making a profit when selling you these toys. " People who live in glass houses should not throw stones" and that goes for you lawyers, doctors, and miscellaneous high priced consultants. Wishes for a civilised New Year. Amedeo Luttwak From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Dec 24 11:24:50 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 11:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Merry Christmas from Switzerland On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, Igor Cerutti wrote: > I'm not very active on the lro-mailing list, because of my english, but I > want also to wish a Merry Christmas to everyone. Hello Igor, Thank you for your season greetings to the LRO list. I would like to extend my season's greetings to you and your family as well. I would also like to encourage you to be more active on the LRO list without concern for your English. There are many non-english speakers on the List, and even those of us who are "native" speakers have our difficulties. I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences with your fleet of Land Rovers. Walter Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From avdende@nik.publishnet.nl (Andre van den ende) Sun Dec 24 20:48:58 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 20:48:58 +0100 From: avdende@nik.publishnet.nl (Andre van den ende) Subject: Bulk >From: Dmvt >Subject: 2.5 Diesel engines >Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 22:09:12 +-100 >I'm planning to buy an 1979 88'' LR SIII 2.5 D. >Now I'm wondering is this a standard rover engine? >Or is this a Mercedes engine? >Either way how much bhp should it give? It is a original Rover-engine They made it from the old 2.25 engine. It is arround 70 bps A mery Xmas and a hapy new year for everyone. greetings, Andre van den Ende Land Rover Club Holland LR 90 TDintercooler '87 From "A D. Cobb" <71643.2453@compuserve.com> 24 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 24 Dec 95 15:31:24 EST From: "A D. Cobb" <71643.2453@compuserve.com> Subject: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE Hello All, First I am NOT currently a Land Rover Owner, But I am considering a RR 4.0 SE. I currently have a 94 GMC Suburban which, while comfortable, is just larger than I care to drive around town in. The 'burban is best on the wide open interstates, its hard to beat its long wide wheel base ride. Frankly the 'burban is kind of boring otherwise. I have a couple of friends who think I should get a Chevy Tahoe or GMC Yukon. No question they are cheaper than the RR, however I'm looking for the best 4WD, not the cheapest. I live in the middle of heavy snow country ( snow belt of upstate NY... 50" so far in December ) so I am interested in winter performance/traction. Can you nice folks give me some ammo to toss at my pals as to why the RR is the best ? Art Cobb Clinton, NY From CpaulP@aol.com Sun Dec 24 16:18:16 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:18:16 -0500 From: CpaulP@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Has anyone re located the ECU unit in a '95 D-90 from under the passenger seat tool compartment? I have heard that it is a safer (water problems etc) location if moved to under the dash as in the 94's. Any thoughts on problems or ease of moving would be appreciated. Thanks. Paul Patsis '95 D-90 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 24 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 24 Dec 95 16:01:51 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Salesmen 102505.3511 @ compuserve.com ("AMEDEO (Denver, CO)") said: >Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because you >are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap >about making a profit when selling you these toys. Amadeo, Let me be a bit blunt. I am not rich, nor would I waste my money with an attitude like this. I built my 109 myself, starting with a driveable but tattered beginning. It is NOT a toy. It is a daily driver which earns its keep and then some - commuting, hauling, pulling stumps and dealing with all the little problems a homeowner can have. It is this elitist attitude that would prevent me from ever setting foot in a Land-Rover dealership. "You're rich, so just put up with it. We can afford to soak you, 'cause you're too stupid to complain." I find this attitude about as amusing as the attitude of the parts department of the local Land-Rover dealership. "Buy a new one....you're rich. We won't sell parts for the old Series vehicles." It is exactly this horse's butt attitude which will prevent me from buying from LRNA. I do NOT buy TOYS. I buy for capability and functionality. If I wanted a toy I could find something far more expensive and less ugly than my 109. I wanted something that WORKED, was reliable and that I wouldn't need 5 tons of electronic widgetry to repair when needed. My 109 has an Alpine stereo, CD player and as much comfort as I'll ever need. What it does noty have is the electronic and mechanical frippery that car manuifacturers seem to think is necessary in this day and age. And they wonder why I dislike most car dealers... Not pleased with this tripe, Alan From Sanna@aol.com Sun Dec 24 16:53:26 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:53:26 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE >>Can you nice folks give me some ammo to toss at my pals as to why the RR is the best ? Popular Science had a great article sport utes a month or so ago. The drove a group of them (the Explorers, Grand Cherokees, Tahoes, etc from Detroit to GM's cold weather test track in the Michigan UP. On the way they got caught in a hellatious blizard, so not only did they report on the test track results, but their personal opinions of the trucks in real life situations. The Range Rover won the tests, and the hearts, hands down. Nothing even came close, including the Discovery. The article is worth finding. It goes in depth into the drive train systems of all the trucks. It's pretty interesting to see the slapped together systems some of the trucks had. The Explorer was not too good. Check it out. - Tony From David Place Sun Dec 24 17:58:43 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 17:58:43 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: silver plate I know there is someone in Land Rover space that can answer my question. I want to try silver plating a few of the bad contacts in my Lucus parts in the Land Rover. I know when I was a kid there was somethng in Popular Science or Mechanics Illustrated that use a car battery and some chemical to put a silver surface on metal. I would like to do a few contacts and see if that stops the problems we all seem to have from time to time. For you others trying to repair the panals on your Land Rover, there was a thread about 6 months ago when someone was looking for threaded inserts that would allow you to put a bolt into a panal etc. Today (yes Sunday!) I bought a tool and inserts called Nutsert insert fasteners. The model is an MSK-1 from a company called Avdeel Corp. There is no address on the box but it says made in the USA. The local car dealer says they use them to put roof racks on vans etc. and they love them. The tool works something like a pop rivet tool except you turn a handle that has a threaded rod inside the insert and it spreads the back of the insert. The inserts are aluminum so they won't cause galvanic action with the LR body. I think if anyone could just buy the inserts, you could install them using a bolt with a washer under it and just tighten till the insert spreads. Dave VE4PN From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 24 15:36:43 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:36:43 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Salesmen Wow, Amedeo. That's some note. Personally I find it comforting to know that people closer to LRNA and Solihull are on the Net and subscribe to the List(s). In my opinion you and others who are part of the dealers' network should be encouraged to put any rumors and other misinformation to right. Why haven't we been hearing from you? Jim Pappas does post once in a while with good inside information about the goings on at Land Rover, and I hope he continues to do so. Maybe by some miracle someone at LRNA or -- dare I wish it -- Land Rover in Solihull will join the List. I also don't mind the occasional sales pitch as long as the List doesn't start to look like a bazaar. Remember: there are people from all over the world on this list. I would seriously doubt that LROs in Australia or South Africa are going to go to Denver or Boston to buy their next Rover. Sales people have been lambasted in the Lists, true, but from what I've read, it's been limited to the bozos. It is my opinion that the bozos should be exposed. I'm not sure that anyone has given anyone else any "crap" for making a profit. However, one can't help but wonder at the pricing policies on parts and accessories of the various dealers. Maybe you could shed some light on why an oil filter for a '95 NAS Discovery costs US$11.80 and an air filter costs US$18.80. How much are these items in the UK? One can but hope that the US prices don't reflect some pervasive opinion at Land Rover North America and its dealerships that if people can afford to buy these expensive machines, then it's okay to gouge them on the price of parts. I think you've also been unkind and unfair to the Series LROs, but I'll let them recount their mistreatments at the hands of LRNA and its dealers. Be prepared for an earful. You've got it coming. Here's hoping your holiday weekend improves. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 12:48 24.12.95 EST, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)] >miscellaneous high priced consultants. >Wishes for a civilised New Year. >Amedeo Luttwak From BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Dec 24 18:38:09 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 18:38:09 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Washer fluid and wives Skip Coghill said: > This is the first >time in my life that the reservoir completely swallowed the WHOLE >bottle >and I did not have to store 22% of the remaining solution in my garage or >top off my wives car. >Guess its' the small things in life that make me happy! :-) >Skip Coghill Hi Skip,Just curious, How many wives do you have? And do they share one car?? ;>) Bob B From LTC Larry Smith Sun Dec 24 20:10:59 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 20:10:59 EST (0110Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Salesmen I have to add my two cents worth. I have had a Series III since March 95. Since that time, I have been treated like whale dung at the Richmond, VA dealer (with the notable exception of two of the mechanics who drive Series vehicles). When I drive in with the wife's car - I get a lukewarm reception. "yeah, whaddya want? Oh, wanna look at a Discovery, yeah that's over here, no wait that's a Defender, the Discovery's the one with that looks like the old Buick." If I drive in with the Series - I don't even get the time of day. It was interesting to note the lead ad in the Richmond Times-Dispatch this weekend. Five vehicles listed for Land Rover Richmond, the first four being used vehicles of someone elses (US & Japanese) manufacture. The last was a Defender 90 (and in small print). You want to cut down the vehicles that have made Land Rover great. Fine. You seem to have the same attitude that BMW has. Lets sell the name, who cares about the rest. I think I have a soap box from which to speak on this one too, having driven 2002s and 3.0s in Germany and seeing the old "blue and white" turning away from drivers and owners in Europe in the early '80s to chase the almighty dollar. If you want to sell a product, fine. I have no problem with that. Go sell soap or infomercials. A few of us "Luddites" will still be out there in our 25 year plus vehicles knowing what life is really all about. To my fellow LROs, my apologies for taking up the band width. Larry From Russell Burns Sun Dec 24 19:12:26 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 19:12:26 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE > Can you nice folks give me some ammo to toss at my pals as to why the RR > is the best ? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Art Cobb > Clinton, NY Art, When I was looking for a good offroad vehicle that could pull a trailer, I looked at Range Rovers as an over priced yuppy mobile. High priced and a joke. The only reason I went to the dealership was to see the 93 defender 110. Since I buy a offroad vehicle from the bottom up, I promply crawled under a Range Rover classic. This type of behaviour is frowned upon in most car dealers. Usually after I emerge from my 15 minute crawl under a truck, none of the salepeople will even talk to me. I was quite suprised to find a sales person who not only asked me how I liked the undercarrage, but wondered if I wanted to take a test drive. The point is If you take the time to crawl under a Range Rover you will notice that it is built. I personally prefer the Range Rover classic, or the Disco to the 4.0. Only because I plan to abuse my rovers for a long time, and do not feel that electric seats, and air suspension gizmos will hold up to the abuse. That does not mean that the 4.0 in not a better truck, it just doesn't fit with my quirks. One of my friends own a surban, and I loaned him my Range Rover for a trip to the national rally out in Colorado. We both pulled popup camper sand he was amazed at how stable the Rover pulled a trailer. After off roading in Co. he promply went out and bought a used Range Rover. The Rover tradition has to build the best Off Road trucks. So far not one of their trucks has let down the reputation. I have been very happy with mine. are they worth the money? no, but what truck is. I will say that Rovers have been the best value for the money in my situation. Russ Burns 91 Range Rover 94 D-90 95 D-90 SW on order From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Sun Dec 24 22:50:47 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 22:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Happy Christmas to Everyone... As most roverfolk know, it wasn't reindeer that pulled santa's sleigh, it was actually Moose... Merry Christmas to All and Happy New Year for 1996! Thanx for a great year and here's to many More! Happy Holidays From Steve And Moose! _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 24 95 Dec EST 1923 Date: 24 Dec 95 23:46:34 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: silver plate There are ploating pens on the market that will do just what you ask for. All they require is a 12-15 volt DC power supply, as they're already charged with an electrolyte solution. All you need to do is hook the power supply to the pen, ground the item to be plated and brush it on. Check with McMaster-Carr hewre in hte States or the equivalent industrial supplier in Canada. If this is not good for you, prowl your nearest electronics supplier. Pre-EPA, there were silver contact plating solutions available for just this purpose on the shelf at most suppliers. Try there..... Joyeux Noel, Alan From JFisk1120@aol.com Mon Dec 25 01:52:23 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 01:52:23 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: "My Rover Trips" To the tune of "The Twelve Days of Christmas"....... On my first Rover trip my true love gave to me....a poncho with a green hood. On my second Rover trip my true love gave to me....2 leather gloves. On my third Rover trip my true love gave to me....3 topo maps. On my fourth Rover trip my true love gave to me....4 bird calls. On my fifth Rover trip my true love gave to me....5 forded streams. On my sixth Rover trip my true love gave to me....6 miles of gravel. On my seventh Rover trip my true love gave to me...7 Rovers wading. On my eighth Rover trip my true love gave to me....8 tailpipes smoking. On my ninth Rover trip my true love gave to me....9 picnic lunches. On my tenth Rover trip my true love gave to me....10 hills-a-climbing. On my eleventh Rover trip my true love gave to me....11 mud pits splashing. On my twelfth Rover trip my true love gave to me....12 rocky ledges. Santa just finished his rounds at our house.....so we are calling it "and to all a good night"! May your holiday season be merry and bright....with peace and happiness to all our Rover friends around the world. Your friendship and support truly means alot to our family! Peace and goodwill, Howard and Jan Fisk Springfield, Missouri USA From Igor Cerutti Mon Dec 25 11:01:08 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 11:01:08 +0100 From: Igor Cerutti Subject: Re:Re: Merry Christams from Switzerland At 17,25 24.12.95 +0000, you wrote: >Coinsins, near Vich/Nyon. Very pleasant part of the world, and at least you >get a chance to use your Land Rovers in real snow. I know about Coinsin, this place is also a beautiful place in the french part of Switzerland. I'm very pleasant to met someone from England, because I like England and english cars to (specially Land Rover). I lived in England for 6 months near Cambridge, in Saffron Walden. And tree time a year I try to go to England (for Holidays, classic car meeting like Beaulieu other the NEC in Birmingham). About the snow, this year is really bad. I don't know, but in the last 10 years also in Switzerland we have some problems, because of the to hot temperature! It snowing only in the mountains, and only at the beginning and at the end of the Winter season ! Strange, very strange! But sure we get a chance to use our Land Rovers in real snow ! This year will be fine to take part in the "Croisier Blanche" in the French Alps. Do you know about it. I think it will be start on the 17 of january, but I don't know about the cost, where and when exactly! And the most important if there is now the possibility to take part ! Still, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ! IGOR SIII '88 Pick Up 1976 RR 3.5 Carb 1984 RR 3.5 Efi 1986 D90 Tdi 1993 kind regards ----------------------------------------------------------------- Real Name : Igor Cerutti Address : TINET Sagl, Centro Galleria 2, 6928 Manno-Lugano Country : Switzerland Phone Number : ++41 91 6108118 Fax Number : ++41 91 6108119 e-mail : igor@tinet.ch, http://www.tinet.ch From Igor Cerutti Mon Dec 25 11:01:15 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 11:01:15 +0100 From: Igor Cerutti Subject: Re:Re: Merry Christmas from Switzerland At 11,24 24.12.95 -0800, you wrote: >Hello Igor, >Thank you for your season greetings to the LRO list. I would like to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >the List, and even those of us who are "native" speakers have our >difficulties. Yes I know, but for the most of non-english speakers hier on the LRO list; english is the second language, for me is the fourth! But I know also, that english is the most important language of the World, and for that I would encourage me to be more active on the LRO list! About the difficulties of "native" speakers I'm completely agree, we have the same problem in Europe!!! >I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences with your fleet of >Land Rovers. Ok, I would try to do my best! Still, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ! IGOR SIII '88 Pick Up 1976 RR 3.5 Carb 1984 RR 3.5 Efi 1986 D90 Tdi 1993 kind regards ----------------------------------------------------------------- Real Name : Igor Cerutti Address : TINET Sagl, Centro Galleria 2, 6928 Manno-Lugano Country : Switzerland Phone Number : ++41 91 6108118 Fax Number : ++41 91 6108119 e-mail : igor@tinet.ch, http://www.tinet.ch From John Antram Mon Dec 25 09:44:45 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: John Antram Subject: Sales People; Good, Bad, Ugly and Yuppie. I think from what people are saying around the list is that basicly the dealers in thier area suck. While I have not asked for series parts at our dealer ( RN being 20 miles north of there.) They do work on them. There has been a series III sitting right next to a RR County in the repair(ed) are of the lot. The sales people I've delt with have taken thier vacations at the off-road school in Colorado and the dealership puts on an off-road event every year. While this may not qualify them as rabid Series people, they certianly seem more accepting of Series rovers and the people who own them then perhapps other dealers. If anyone is up in Vermont skiing, and wants to look at new Rovers, I'd recomend the (Automaster). P.S. I'm just a happy Discovery owner; itching like mad for my SIII to return. John Antram rewt@sover.net RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, Vt 05753 1972 Land Rover Series III 88" red, sunroofs 1995 Land Rover Discovery 5-speed, sunroofs, Roman Bronze 1987 Mercedes Benz 300 SDL Anthracite Gray From jpappa01@interserv.com Mon Dec 25 08:08:22 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 08:08:22 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. Hi all: Here it is, another Xmas morning. It's a white one here in Beantown, and bright sun. Perfect. The old 109 is fringed with icicles - I love it! Hope everyone had a safe and happy one as well. My comment about the *salesman* stuff... I kinda figured my posting from the other day might gear up some bandwidth. All I can say is that personally, I'm an enthusiast first, a *salesman* second. As in *ANY* occupation, there are good ones and bad ones. The other fellow's point, I'm sure, no matter how he stated it, was that. I don't think that the atypical *car salesman* would take the time, interest, and trouble to subscribe to the LRO digest, do you? I have seen selling styles at Land Rover dealerships that I don't particularly like, even at our own store. We're talking human beings here - but I think that blanket stereotyping is something to be avoided these days. There really are some genuine enthusiasts trying to get non-LROs interested, educated, and, if qualified, involved with our LR world. What's wrong with that. The other guy's point that any business must make a profit certainly is correct. Once again, this can be rather obvious, and doesn't really need to be stated in blunt terms. Why else to the majority of us get up early every day to go somewhere to do something. Just to break even? I don't think so. Personally, I'd rather go four-wheeling every day in *any* Land Rover. Selling them is the closest thing I can do that comes close. Some guys just moved into selling Rovers from other car lines. Some didn't. I never sold a wet paper bag before this. I left the security of a regular paycheck to work strictly on a fee for service basis. But being around Solihull's finest is what keeps me going.... I've made lots of friends in the process and managed to pay the bills (bills = *other business' profits*). What more could I ask for? Please let's not be too hard on any group of people. Individual rogues exist everywhere. If you single them out and don't like them, then don't patronize them! That simple. Enjoy the new year! See you on the trail. cheerz Jim `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Sanna@aol.com Mon Dec 25 15:48:09 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 15:48:09 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE Mechanics Illustrated maybe?. The magazine was recent, but I'm not positive of the title. - Tony From ecoethic@rcinet.com Mon Dec 25 16:25:52 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 16:25:52 -0500 (EST) From: ecoethic@rcinet.com Subject: Re: Yuppies and Rover Salesmen Happy Holidays Everyone, Everywhere, Series and non-Series Owners, I simply must join the current discussion threads concerning yuppies, car salesmen, and the denial of Land Rover heritage. There is indeed a bit of snobbery in some Rover dealerships. I remember visiting a certain dealership in Cincinnati last year looking at a very attractive yellow D90. The salesman was attentive and patient and was willing to show me anything, but then I started to tell him about how I was working on my Ph.D. and that both my wife and daughter were full time students as well. The glow on his end of the month quota face started to fade as he realized that maybe I was just dreaming; I didn't have enough money. I really frosted the cake when I told him about my Series III's and the various Land Rover clubs across the country! The smile on his face disappeared altogether. Many of the people on this list are the exception to the rule that seems to prevail: Current Land Rover products are for the affluent; Most current owners are not mechanically inclined; Most current model owners do not wave to Series owners because they are truly ignorant of their heritage, or, if they do recognize the name on that strange brick-like disgustingly utilitarian thing with no power-anything and no radio, they develop x-ray eyes and look right through you. The many fine people on this list who own both new and old models are very special "yuppies" who may be affluent, but have a healthy appreciation for the history of Land Rovers' mechanical evolution, and, above all, they wave to us poor slobs in old Series models. The prevailing attitudes of many of the non-list "yuppies" (and I mean that in the derogatory sense as applied to materialistic status conscious individuals who do not off-road), and the usual Land Rover salesman, reminds me of the British sit-com "Keeping Up Appearances" where the principal character Hyacinth is perpetually concerned about what other people think of her, and is mortified when her poor "dead common" relatives come to visit. I am still waiting for an episode where an old Series appears when she thought the person was arriving in a proper Range Rover. How humiliating! Now, if there are people on this list who are affluent, own a newish RR, Discovery, or D90, know nothing about mechanical workings, have never changed their own oil, run to a dealer everytime something squeaks, and have never taken their vehicle off-road because they abhor the thought of getting a scratch or dent and just want to appear as if they can go anywhere, well, this comment is for you: I feel sorry for you, but thanks. Somebody has to take the hit of outrageous depreciation on new vehicles so that they can pass the decades in good condition while they get to the point where I and others can afford them. They should be satisfied to know that some deserving soul would take loving care of the vehicle and that they would actually take it off-road to high adventure where new vehicles fear to tread, but, are they ever missing something! I do not doubt that many "yuppies" secretly admire Series owners who carry tools and spares for every conceivable event and keep their vehicles going through all sorts of adventures. They realize that all they can do is throw money at dealerships in order to keep their image up. I must admit that it is sometimes very miserable to be lying on your back wrestling with old bolts, but then, I have a relationship with my Rovers, they have history and many wonderful memories. Where were all you "yuppies" when I was criss-crossing the rockies in Colorado at high-elevation this summer? I did not see one of you in three weeks. You missed a great experience that money can not buy. I purchased the Rover I used on that trip for $2600 from the original owner, and I poured much labor and a few thousand dollars of parts into completely checking it out. The only problems I encountered on the whole trip were vapor lock and a loose wire, which I solved myself, but I was prepared to handle much more. I'll never appreciate how people can drive vehicles that they do not understand mechanically, or that they do not respect. Even if I could afford a $30,000+ Rover,(my student loans far exceed that!) I think I would prefer an old Series because of its honesty and utilitarian beauty. I would consider a D90 only because it reminds me of the Series models, in truth. Most people at this point would apologize for taking up so much "bandwidth," well, I'm not. I am glad I did. Walter Pokines Tipp City, Ohio (Mid-West Berkeley) Multiple Series Owner From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Dec 26 00:52:18 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 00:52:18 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Disco pricing redux Still looking for a new vehicle. The requirements: Me: A go-anywhere vehicle. The wife: Air conditioning. The kid: Something stylish. The dogs: More *room* in the back. When you get all of the above, you rapidly outgrow an 88. Anyway, I've been beating the bushes on Disco prices, and the local dealership offered me $1,500 off MSRP even before we started talking price. What I've learned from outisde sources (the "Edmunds" reports, http:// enews.com/magazines/edmunds/) as well as those *inside* LRNA. -The dealer markup is about 15-16%. To allow the dealer to pay for heat, lights, etc, about 10% off MSRP is the best deal anyone outside Rover is going to get. -The five speed is not selling. Only 5-6% of the basic, SD model have manual trannys and most *don't* want it. The local dealer has sold 40 Discos this year, only one of which has been a manual...and I'm trying to deal on the other...a black one. -LRNA is trying to sell 20,000 units by year's end. With a thousand to go, they *may* be in a better frame of mind to deal right now. -The beluga black paint is the hardest to keep looking good (that's why it's clear coated). However, it is the easiest to touch up. I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc. The reply (probably quoted out of some manual) is that the buying public didn't want these...the public wanted the luxury. I dunno. If you could get it past EPA, I think a stripper 300 TDi would be *perfect* for this market. Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual everything. I'm sure that a fleet version of the Disco is offered in the UK. Could anyone across the pond enlighten us as to the difference between the top of the line and bottom end prices? BTW - The only engines offered in the '95 US spec Discovery are the 4.0 and 4.6 petrol. Cheers - *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 25 22:05:25 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 22:05:25 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Yuppies and Rover Salesmen So, Walter, did you at least get what you wanted for Christmas? Cheers! John '95 Discovery (That's "Bucket," not "Bouquet") At 16:25 25.12.95 -0500, ecoethic@rcinet.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Happy Holidays Everyone, Everywhere, Series and non-Series Owners, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >salesmen, and the denial of Land Rover heritage. >There is indeed a bit of snobbery in some Rover dealerships. I remember visiting a >certain dealership in Cincinnati last year looking at a very attractive yellow D90. >The salesman was attentive and patient and was willing to show me anything, but >then I started to tell him about how I was working on my Ph.D. and that both my >wife and daughter were full time students as well. The glow on his end of the >month quota face started to fade as he realized that maybe I was just dreaming; I >didn't have enough money. I really frosted the cake when I told him about my >Series III's and the various Land Rover clubs across the country! The smile on his >face disappeared altogether. >Many of the people on this list are the exception to the rule that seems to prevail: >Current Land Rover products are for the affluent; Most current owners are not >mechanically inclined; Most current model owners do not wave to Series owners >because they are truly ignorant of their heritage, or, if they do recognize the name >on that strange brick-like disgustingly utilitarian thing with no power-anything and >no radio, they develop x-ray eyes and look right through you. The many fine >people on this list who own both new and old models are very special "yuppies" >who may be affluent, but have a healthy appreciation for the history of Land >Rovers' mechanical evolution, and, above all, they wave to us poor slobs in old >Series models. >The prevailing attitudes of many of the non-list "yuppies" (and I mean that >who may be affluent, but have a healthy appreciation for the history of Land in the >derogatory sense as applied to materialistic status conscious individuals who do >not off-road), and the usual Land Rover salesman, reminds me of the British >sit-com "Keeping Up Appearances" where the principal character Hyacinth is >perpetually concerned about what other people think of her, and is mortified when >her poor "dead common" relatives come to visit. I am still waiting for an episode >where an old Series appears when she thought the person was arriving in a proper >Range Rover. How humiliating! >Now, if there are people on this list who are affluent, own a newish RR, >Discovery, or D90, know nothing about mechanical workings, have never changed >their own oil, run to a dealer everytime something squeaks, and have never taken >their vehicle off-road because they abhor the thought of getting a scratch or dent >and just want to appear as if they can go anywhere, well, this comment is for you: >I feel sorry for you, but thanks. Somebody has to take the hit of outrageous >depreciation on new vehicles so that they can pass the decades in good condition >while they get to the point where I and others can afford them. They should be >satisfied to know that some deserving soul would take loving care of the vehicle >and that they would actually take it off-road to high adventure where new vehicles >fear to tread, but, are they ever missing something! >I do not doubt that many "yuppies" secretly admire Series owners who carry >Discovery, or D90, know nothing about mechanical workings, have never changed tools >and spares for every conceivable event and keep their vehicles going through all >sorts of adventures. They realize that all they can do is throw money at >dealerships in order to keep their image up. I must admit that it is sometimes very >miserable to be lying on your back wrestling with old bolts, but then, I have a >relationship with my Rovers, they have hisFrom "Walter C. Swain" Tue Dec 26 00:39:24 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 00:39:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote: Heavily snipped manual trannys and most *don't* want it. The local dealer has sold 40 Discos this year, only one of which has been a manual...and I'm trying to deal on the other...a black one. more snipping > I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with > crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc. The reply > (probably quoted out of some manual) is that the buying public didn't want > these...the public wanted the luxury. Sandy, I suspect that in the rarified atmosphere of what passes for reality at LRNA, the low percentage of 5 speeds they sell reinforces the idea that only luxury sells. The fact that the rest of the vehicle is loaded with gadgets is likely a non-factor in their thinking. A stripped vehicle with a diesel engine and (gasp) roll up windows would be perceived as undermining the cachet of luxury. As long as the plushmobiles are selling reasonably well, I don't believe you'll see real utility vehicles sold in North America. Hope I'm wrong. Walt Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Lee Zeltzer Tue Dec 26 07:16:36 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 07:16:36 -0700 From: Lee Zeltzer Subject: 1995 D90 SW is a plushmobile! I convinced myself to do it. I picked up the Defender SW in Scottsdale = this weekend. After a jaunt through lower Phoenix I rolled down the = super slab to Tucson. No earplugs needed. The dual mode air conditioning is great; little levers under the = windshield, during the day when it's warm out here in Arizona, it blows = warm air, a night, it blows cold air; the blowing seems to stop at = traffic lights. Its amazing, can't wait for a our mild summers. You can = tell it's plush because it has two cup holders in a console with a = stereo that you can hear! Off road it's a Landrover, this weekend while others practiced pagan = rites at Christmas trees the rover and I explored river beds, no water, = just sand; this is the dry season. Next, snow in the White Mountains of central AZ. As was predicated by a some comments to my earlier posting my wife has = immediately offered me the Discovery she drives for this D90; no deal. Hope you all have a great holiday season. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 26 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 26 Dec 95 9:51:22 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Tutorial: Windshield Washers on an old Series vehicle...Why? Why I know what you're thinking - Richer's lost it this time. Why would you want to put windshield squirters on a LAND-ROVER, for Heaven's sake? Actually, there's a lot of reasons to invest the 25 bucks and an hour or so of work. Keeping the windshield clean can be damn near impossible in northern climes because of the salt spray and crud thrown up by other cars, and that translates to less-than-safe visibility. Mud from other vehcles when off-roading has the same effect, so it's not just the citified types who have this problem. Also, if you do it with the part I recommend, you buy yourself a radiator pressure tank too, and can convert your system to catch and return coolant and cut down on the environmental mess your Rover makes, little as it may be. But, on to the task... First things first, make a junkyard run. The prize we want is the windshield washer tank and radiator overflow bottle from a mid-80s Toyota. The tank I used was out of an 85 Celica, and came complete with the pump built in. From what I could see, that same tank was used in all models of the Toyota line for at least 10 years and probably more. You also want to scavenge the washer nozzles and the rubber tubing from the donor vehicle, and get the power connector to the pump so you can do a tidy job of the installation. I paid $20 for the tank I got, but I think that was high. Negotiate - you can probably do better. On the way home from the junkyard, stop off at the auto-parts store and buy a suitable pushutton for the dashboard - should be about $5. Also pick up about 3 feet of tubing of the same size as the overflow tube on your Rover. We'll use this to replace the overflow tube from your radiator, plumbing it to the tank. Don't just reuse the original from your car - if it's like the one I had, it'll break when you take it out of the clips down the side of the radiator. Once you get it home, clean it up before you install it. I had to brush 10 years of old coolant crud out of the overflow tank and its tubing, so it's worth it to was it before you install it. Now come the fun bits. To install it and the nozzle (I used only one - second one will go in when the temperature warms up this summer), first bolt the tank to the driver's side inside wing next to the radiator. By a happy coincidence, my Rover had holes already available that fit the tank mounts perfectly - no drilling. I blieve these holes are already there on most older IIa vehicles - check and see.. Run two wires up to the dashboard area - one for ground and one for +12 volts. Bring these into the panel area, and tap the wiper power connections for power for the unit, putting the pushbutton in line to control it. I would recommend using green for the +12 and black for the round to observe the Rover color code for the wipers. Mark the schematics for your car (and you really should have them) with the changes you've made. NOTE: If you use the part I did, the pump is polarity sensitive. This means that if you confuse the + and - lines, the pump will spin quickly and will not spray. If this happens, reverse the leads at the pump connector. The nozzle goes into a notched cutout in the bonnet. I placed mine an inch back from the steel brace on the underside of the bonnet at the back edge and centered on the driver's window. The opening was not a simple hole, so you'll need to waste the metal out with a drill then file to shape. It sounds worse than it was - it only took me about 10 minutes to do so. TIP: Bring a piece of paper with you to the scrap yard. Trace the outline of the hole you remove the nozzle from, and then transfer the shape to the bonnet of your vehicle where you want it with a piece of carbon paper, machinist's bluing or whatever you find handy. Saves a lot of work figuring out what goes where..... Once this is done, hook up the hose from the pump to the nozzle and fasten it down using wire ties. Leave the loop at the bonnet long so it doesn't foul when the bonnet is put straight up. The overflow tank hookup is straightforward. Remove the old tube from the radiator overflow and replace it with the new tubing, routing it behind the tank and around to the inlet stub on the tank's cap. Fill the bottle about 2/3 full with coolant, and top it up after the Rover fills its lines. It's a quick and simple task, and well worth the few dollars it takes to do. Enjoy! -ajr From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Tue Dec 26 10:45:22 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:45:22 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: New and Old Rovers Dear All, Returned to work this morning to read the lists from the last few days. Seems like quite a line being drawn between the Series people and the rest. True you most likely will not get a warm reception at your new Rover dealer if you pull in with a Series Rover, but those people exist to make money. You and I, Series owner or Disco owner, exist to have fun with our Rovers. You can't put our values in the mouth of a saleman who is doing his job. You would not get a warm reception at a Buick dealer either if you pulled in with a 1965 LeSabre. We arrived at a Rover dealership in our car carrier once with a Series IIA 109 on the back. Now that rig, truck and Rover combined cost me well over 45,000, but the saleman looked at the 109 as if we should be hauling it to the dump, not to the shop for work, and looked at us like we didn't have two nickels to rub together, so I understand your anger, but I don't think it is a Rover problem. It is a dealership, just need to make a buck problem, Rover, Ford, Jaguar, all makes. Not to defend the saleman, but if you were a fan of a 1957 Chevy Bel-Air Conv., and went to ask for parts or tech. advise from your local Chevy dealer, they would laugh in your face. Nowhere in the job description does it say that you have to know trucks to sell them. I went and looked at new Ford F-350's the other day to replace our car carrier, and the saleman knew nothing about the vehicles, not even what the mileage was on the Turbo diesel models. You would think that would be a FAQ. So although 9 times out of 10 I agree that saleman should know their product better, and be more helpful to all, I don't think it is going to happen in a business as large as LRNA. They are, and have to be, in it to make a profit. Rovers are our hobby, and their job. I don't think we'll ever change that. We should be glad that the company is actually as cool as it really is, supporting off road adventures, off road schools, and even some rallies, etc. etc. So let, as another emailer said,...the people who need to prove their status, and to prove to their girlfreinds that they are *real men*, drive and pamper their never off road D90's and Disco's, and few years down the line we'll all have clean low mileage models to pick from for our expeditions into the world of Rovers that they will never know. Mike Smith, ECR From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 26 95 Dec EST 1911 Date: 26 Dec 95 11:28:44 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: New and Old Rovers Re: Animosity and "party lines": No animosity here, just like to get the facts straight. Re: older vehicle parts and service support: > Not to defend the saleman, but if you were a fan of a 1957 Chevy >Bel-Air Conv., and went to ask for parts or tech. advise from your local >Chevy dealer, they would laugh in your face. Gotta argue with you on this one, Mike. GM and many of the other car manufacturers maintain parts availability for the "classics" as they're known. I can walk into any Chevy dealership on the planet and either get or order many parts for older vehicles. Been there, done it. Can't do that with Japanese or most other foreign lines, though Rover and their public disdain for their older product annoys me on a personal level. Also, Jag and other "expensive" car lines do so for their older vehicles. Look at Lotus (not the one I work for, the car company). They still make and sell parts for their older vehicles and support replica manufacturers (such as Caterham). aj" Not a yuppie - never was..."r From jim@kidd.com (jnk) Tue Dec 26 13:06:51 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 13:06:51 -0400 From: jim@kidd.com (jnk) Subject: Series II engine rebuild My father and I are in the midst of rebuilding a 1960 SII engine. This weekend while getting ready to replace the main bearings we noticed that the retainer clip thing was on the opposite side. After flip flopping the part and wondering where we went wrong we noticed in a catalog that the SII used different main bearings. Is there anything else we should know before continuing with the rebuild. We are currently on hold awaiting new bearings. Jim Karantinos (Tallahassee, Fl) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Dec 26 10:09:05 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:09:05 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Range Rover Coil Wire I was under the hood of my Disco the other day and noticed the same thing. I put piece of that plastic wire loom material aroud it. You'd think that in the 6 yrs between your 89 and my 95 they'd have come up with a better arrangement. Then again, there's that Lucas heritage to consider. :-) Happy holidays to all! ---------- From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 26 12:16:44 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 12:16:44 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: LRNA's disdain Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-) Anyway, if there's that much dislike for the series models, I wonder why they talk about the LR heritage in the sales brochures, with a photo of series model? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Dec 26 10:50:08 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:50:08 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE >From: A D. Cobb[SMTP:71643.2453@compuserve.com] >Hello All, > I have a couple of friends who think I should get a Chevy Tahoe or GMC >Yukon. No question they are cheaper than the RR, however I'm looking for the >best 4WD, not the cheapest. I live in the middle of heavy snow country ( snow >belt of upstate NY... 50" so far in December ) so I am interested in winter >performance/traction. I would think that in New York, the "traction control" and ABS brakes in addition to the superior off-road capabilities and interior appointments of the RR would be hard for a GM enthusiast to counter. I don't think GM offers anything like that (a limited slip rear-end isn't anywhere near 4-wheel traction control). If you are pulling trailers and/or like the power of the 'burban, you might want to look at the 4.6 HSE. > Can you nice folks give me some ammo to toss at my pals as to why the RR >is the best ? Good luck with your new vehicle. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Dec 26 10:42:08 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:42:08 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Disco pricing redux >From: rover@pinn.net[SMTP:rover@pinn.net] >-The beluga black paint is the hardest to keep looking good (that's why it's >clear coated). However, it is the easiest to touch up. That's good to know! :-) >I dunno. If you could get it past EPA, I think a stripper 300 TDi would be >*perfect* for this market. Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual >everything. I'm sure that a fleet version of the Disco is offered in the >UK. Could anyone across the pond enlighten us as to the difference between >the top of the line and bottom end prices? I'd trade my "plushmobile" in on one in a second! Then I could go and (ab)use it with a much lighter burden on my concience (i.e. wallet). Maybe that's what will be offered next year in place of the D90 in the NA market. They could capitalize on the Camel Trophy image! Even offer CT Yellow/Orange as a color. I bet they could sell as many of them as they did D90 SW's. (Yea, I know. Fat chance! It does go seriously against the 'refined' LR owner image held by LRNA, but I can dream, can't I?) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Dec 26 10:56:02 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:56:02 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: LRNA's disdain >From: Tom Rowe[SMTP:TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU] >Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, >wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in >front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-) Be sure to wear your flak jacket! From William Caloccia Tue Dec 26 14:01:38 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 14:01:38 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: snow-plough and PTFE Lloyd Allison writes about: snow-plough and PTFE Yes Lloyd, you got the combination absolutely totally correct the best place on a Land-Rover for PTFE is on the surface of the snow-plow so that the snow doesn't get hung up on and pack onto the surface of the plow. Cheers, -Bill From "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> 26 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 26 Dec 95 14:00:45 EST From: "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> Subject: Salesmen To the Series people, let's make peace! Even Israel and the PLO did it! O.K. next time a Series person comes in I'll treat him like he owns the place. Seriously, I agree we can learn from each other. Just understand that a modern LR dealership is there to push the current product lines. But why can't you accept that these so called plushmobiles are still real Land-Rovers, made in Soulihull? Also, don't play so poor: when you add the cost of your antiques plus parts plus repairs (time you spend times your wage rate) they don't cost much less than a spanking new Discovery per mile. BTW sincere thanks to Larry Smith and Alan Richer for their comments. To Jim Pappas: have some more backbone. Salesmen can be professionals too. Let's defend our profession. And my name is not "the other guy". I am even a Gold Grenadier like you, look in the list. Friends? To Sandy Grice: after the newly found respect I wanted to give to Series people I am somewhat disappointed about some inaccuracies in your message: mark-ups of 15-16% on Discoveries? More like 10-12% and that does not make any provisions for overhead. This is gross profit. We get no rebates like most other automobile dealers -engines: 95 Disco with 4.0 and 4.6 liter engines????? 95 has 3.9, 96 has 4.0! Sales plug: we have another Defender 110, with winch and 50k miles. And sorry, it is about 39K asking price. The last one we had (with 20k miles) sold for 46K. It's not my fault. Amedeo 87RR From "Tom Rowe" Tue Dec 26 14:08:37 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 14:08:37 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Salesmen Amedeo writes: Snip > Also, don't play so poor: when you add the > cost of your antiques plus parts plus repairs (time you spend times your wage > rate) they don't cost much less than a spanking new Discovery per mile. Snip Well, that's not exactly an accurate figure. I work 40 hrs per week and am not allowed overtime and I don't take time off to work on my LR. So it's not accurate to figure my repairs x my hourly rate (which is much less than a garage charges anyway) because I couldn't be earning that elsewhere. Also, I enjoy tinkering with my LR, it's a kind of hobby and most of the times I find it a rather relaxing mindless activity. Zen auto repair? I paid $3,600 for my Lightweight and even adding the cost of a rebuilt engine (which it's needed for 4 years) I haven't spent anywhere near the cost of a new LR per mile. THe total is less than $10,000, way less than $15,000 even if you count labor at my present rate (which is higher now than it was when I've done most of my repairs). PLUS, I can fix anything that goes wrong with my Series LR. There's things I probably wouldn't attempt on a new one, unless it were a diesel. Having said all that, I'd probably buy a D110 if they were available and I could afford one (I'd like to offer a bit more comfort to my wife and son) But I'll have to settle for restoring my '67 109. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Dec 26 12:51:05 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 12:51:05 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Salesmen I have to confess that after reading your first posting, I was seriously tempted to fling another "salesman bashing" e-mail onto the heap, since it did sound a bit on the arrogant side. (e.g. "Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because you are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap about making a profit when selling you these toys. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones" and that goes for you lawyers, doctors, and miscellaneous high priced consultants." I guess I fall in to the "miscellaneous high priced consultant" category and I don't consider this a very friendly way to address your market segment.) However, as is too easy to do in the e-mail, I suspect your original posting did not accurately represent your views. Unfortunately for you, "Car Salesman" has become equated with "Bad/Pushy/obnoxious/un-informed/(pick-your-own-derrogatory-adjective) salesman" in the minds of many. In my experience, I've met more LR salespeople who are interested and knowledgable about the product than any other single automotive brand. (Of course I've met many who are clueless order-takers as well). If you are the former case, then you are truely a professional and there's nothing to be ashamed or defensive about. Likewise, those "car-salesman" bashing comments that fly through here occasionally aren't directed to you but the other, clueless, ones. Now that you've been baptized by "flame" I'd like to extend my welcome to another dealer/salesman to the list. As other's have already said, I'd like to see more dealer (and LRNA ?!) participation in the e-mail alias. Granted there's alot of "noise" at times (which gives the list it's personality) I think there's a lot to be gained in terms of knowing the customer by keeping an ear to the e-mail. What retailer wouldn't give big $$$ to know what's on thier market's mind in real-time, when here you can have it for free! At the same time, the occasional "plug" or "news brief" isn't bad, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), I don't want this to turn into an on-line want-ads. Lastly, don't take this stuff too personally. We're all just here to have a good time, in (or under) our Rovers, of course! :-) <-- Smiley face, turned sideways. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "Francis J. Twarog" Tue Dec 26 18:30:35 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 18:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Nice to be back Well, I've been away from my computer for a few weeks, so I just caught up on the "talk-around-town". Regarding the 90 SW - truly a beautiful vehicle with a lot more attention to fit and finish. I think it is a bit more comfortable (at least in the cold) because of the cloth seats and probably nicer to drive on the highway, but definitely has one drawback (aside from the obvious lack of use a convertible) - you can't hose it out! Just this morning I put three bales of hay in the back of my dad's and discovered how nice it is (and easy) to alleviate the "barn" smell with a bucket of water and a broom (I can't imagine how expensive our "detailing" bills would be down at the Scrub-a-Dub with that truck!). Anyway, as I've said before if any readers are feeling the need to express their philanthropic side, I'd take mine in Arles blue. On the topic of the roof rack for US Defender 90s, I propose a plan - every Defender owner that is leaning toward purchasing one (if you haven't seen the picture yet, it is just like the 110's in appearance but is structurally designed to deliver the weight down through 6 connecting points - 4 on the roll cage above the driver/passenger door, one which runs down to the frame on the passenger rear (almost looks like it would attach to the top-right bracket of the swinging tire carrier) and the last connecting point is the rear ladder itself which is naturally on the driver's side) - anyway, I suggest that a group discount might be applied if several owners wanted to buy them all at once (I'm sure that they'll be above a grand) through a dealership. (MetroWest LR in MA gives a pretty generous discount to Bay State club members)... anyway, it looks really nice and will fit any US spec 90. The first casualties in the Bosnian peace-keeping mission were reported on NPR the other day - two British soldiers received minor injuries after their Land Rover travelled over a land mine. Ouch. I think the last trivia posting that I did had to do with the 107" in regards to its chassis color - the early models had their frames painted blue. Today's trivia is not for those of you who have trouble remembering dates, but logical guesses are of course, welcome... What years were the Tickford Series I station wagons produced? What was the first year that the Range Rover came available with an automatic? A five speed? Frank Twarog Burlington, Vt From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 26 95 Dec EST 1919 Date: 26 Dec 95 19:38:17 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Half shafts ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From JEPurnell@aol.com Tue Dec 26 20:29:19 1995 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 20:29:19 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... >I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with >crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc. The reply [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >*perfect* for this market. Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual >everything. I tend to agree with the luxury concept here. I recently tried sell a Mercedes 300D for a friend in Southern California. The MBZ was a strippo, no A/C, no power nuthin'...and that was the reponse I got from advertising it...nuthin'. Noone wanted a Benzo without at least A/C. Granted the used sport ute market might be different from used luxo market, but it seems to me that people still will choose the more optioned-out car in the used market where the differences in price get smaller and smaller. This brings out another point regarding the "yuppie" thang. If Rovers where only sold to "enthusiasts" then none of us would be driving 'em. Just as in the super car craze in the '60s, many enthusiasts were the recipient of a "subsidizing" effect of these wonderful machines. "Subsidized" by the many buyers who had only the money, and nothing else, to buy the vehicles. No real understanding of proper gearing, high compression, or high lift/longer duration cams, complained about hard starting in cold weather (muscle cars), or 11 inches of suspension travel, ladder frames, and locking center diffs (off road vehicles). Sometimes it is hard for me to accept this, being an enthusiast. I want everyone who owns one to be committed to learning. Somehow I think the more people that become interested, the more these vehicles will be around. I understand the operational consequences of living with a unique specialized vehicle. The mechanics, I'm able to repair what breaks, I enjoy talking about modifications with other owners, and I am interested in the heritage of these vehicles--heck, that's why I read this list. But, on the other hand, I am a "subsidizer" too. I didn't know anything about Land Rovers before I bought this D90. I had an old bronco, but never took it off road, I just loved the body style, and being able to repair and modify the thing myself, (I have always been a hot rodder). I definately was not an off-roader at all. I stFrom Roger Sinasohn Wed Dec 27 01:15:06 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:15:06 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: GPS placement in sII I'm not sure if this will work with other than a SII (as I'm used to my SII, and not others) but I've found a great place to mount my Garmin 45 GPS. out yet.) First, get the Garmin holder thing. Then, unscrew the base part, so all you've got is the part that actually holds the GPS. Then, make a new base part out of aluminum (or whatever) like this: .-------. | _ | /: (_) :\ / : : \ /O_:_______:_O\ Fold the little wings up (on the dotted lines) so that looking from the end, it looks like |________|. The bolt that held the holder to the base goes through the holes in the wings, then the hole in the middle goes on the bolt holding the windscreen up. This will put the GPS in the lower left (or right) corner of your view area. Perfect, and easy! It would be great to use the stock base, but it's too big to fit in where the bolt is. Different series vehicles may be able to use the standard base, though. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 27 95 Dec EST 1906 Date: 27 Dec 95 06:08:21 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: New and old Rovers, Dealerships > understand your anger, but I don't think it is a Rover problem. It is a > dealership, just need to make a buck problem, Rover, Ford, Jaguar, all > makes. Not neccessarily. One notable exception seems to be - hate to admit it - Mercedes Benz. A friend of mine owns a weird sort of 'expedition mobile' made up of part of a railway carriage bolted on top of an ex-mil. 4WD 1963 Mercedes truck with 7.3 litre straight six Mercedes diesel, the whole rig still has all the original parts, and the engine never had anything but oil change and belt tightening for the past 30 years. Whenever he lumbers onto the yard of any Mecedes dealership, *everybody* including the manager come running out and absolutely *swoon* over this wonderfully preserved immaculate piece of automotive history and show real pride how this product of theirs has survived all these years and well over a million kilometers in such good condition. I guess it has to do with whether or not a dealership is really conscious and educated about the marque they work for and what it stands for. It seems many LR dealers aren't. Sorry about the non-LR bandwidth... and a Happy New Year to all Roverheads, may your drive shafts last and your oil leaks prosper! Stefan From "barnett childress" Wed Dec 27 9:24:50 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 9:24:50 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Santa good to me/What's up? Hi All, Hope your holiday was as good as mine! Santa left a Hi-Lift jack, Max Axe tool, and a pair of Hella lights under my tree! Santa truly knows how to make a LRO happy! Cheers Barnett P.S. In regards to the bulk of the postings on the list lately: I don't understand what's going on here? I don't know about anyone else but I find reading about series owners problems, repairs, & advice they can give to us newer owners, or talk of new LR modifications to enhance off-roading, or info on some great trails or rally's a LOT more interesting than my LR is better than your LR, or LRNA sucks, discussions that go on & on forever. Am I in the minority here? Why lower ourselves's to the "Jeep" mentality of my "CJ is better than your YJ?" Let's face it, there are not that many of us LRO's in the first place! Isn't that why we band together, and talk on the NET, so we don't feel so isolated from each other? ALL LAND ROVERS ARE REAL LAND ROVERS! Dealers - Exist to sell and service new models, and be profitable. If they can't make a profit LR as a company is DEAD! Company's like RN - Exist to get ANYONE parts for ANY LR, and be profitable. If they can't make a profit they're DEAD, and a valuable source for older vehicle parts & info ceases to exist. If anyone else feels like I do, PLEASE, post your feelings so we can get back to talking about the real issue, LOVE OF LAND ROVER'S! From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 27 95 Dec EST 1911 Date: 27 Dec 95 11:11:36 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Majorette Rangie ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 27 95 Dec EST 1911 Date: 27 Dec 95 11:12:51 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Old Mail For some weeks I have been experiencing mail sending problems, the stuff I sent dissappered into the wild blue yonder, one finally made it so I will try another old one to see if it is 'fixed" Happy New year and Hogmanay to any Scottish readers. Bill Leacock Limey ( Sassenach ) in exile. From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Wed Dec 27 11:22:04 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 11:22:04 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux On the topic of 5 Speeds, I would have preferred one, but I was told that the lead time to order one was much longer. I was also told that they only made up a small % of the fleet. As I was already concerned about Rover maintenance, I did not want to place myself into the small % that had the manual. I presume that Rover OEM's the tranny, but that's a unsubstantiated assumption. On the topic of tdi's: I would love one. This is one area where I really prefer some of the US trucks, they have many multifuel engines available. I am not liooking forward to taking my Rover to South America, and burning out the catalytic converter on leaded fuel, a tdi would be perfect. (yes I want to make a serious road trip one day :-) ) On the topic of plush vs stripped down. Well, I actually like being comfortable on my way to asaulting the next hill, and that AC helps :-) ttfn Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com 5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829 From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 27 10:57:20 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:57:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Salesmen On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, John C. White, III wrote: > "crap" for making a profit. However, one can't help but wonder at the > pricing policies on parts and accessories of the various dealers. Maybe you [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > afford to buy these expensive machines, then it's okay to gouge them on the > price of parts. I am curious on what the price is for a '95 Disco Starter... Let us say that the price in Canada is pretty dear... Anyone know? > I think you've also been unkind and unfair to the Series LROs, but I'll let > them recount their mistreatments at the hands of LRNA and its dealers. Be > prepared for an earful. You've got it coming. I understand that there is a message limit under RFC822... :-) From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 27 10:30:33 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:30:33 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Axle tips and others On Sat, 23 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote: > Merry Christmas to All...and may your Rover get frequent, regular oil > changes (Dixon) in the coming year. Having my 109 described as a rolling Exxon Valdez seems to be hiding somewhere in the back of my mind along with a particular butternut carving of an II/IIA 88". I prefer to think that my 109 gets a continuous oil change. Besides, if I am going to bring it down to the Mid-Atlantic Rally next year, I need to have a trail to find my way back home. Can't just tell the Rover to go where it is colder. It would rather stay in Virginia. Best of the season to you... Rgds, PS. Washing the oil filter in varsol renews it quite well... :-) From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 27 11:31:14 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:31:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LRNA's disdain On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, > wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in > front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-) When I go and visit friends working at the local LR dealership I park the 109 right in front of their windows, next to the Disco and RR out on display. Basically where they don't want the public parking. No adverse comments, even about the 109 marking her territory underneath... :-) Rgds, PS, Actually the 109 parked there has drawn some customers in the few times it has been there. Ted & Jason's III's parked out beside the dealership do the same, though the person is more likely than not to want a used Series vehicle. From "John C. White, III" Wed Dec 27 08:40:18 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:40:18 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: discovery radio/Cas Andy, The '95 Discovery Electrical Troubleshooting Manual (which includes non-NAS) doesn't say how to re-enter the code by clearing what is already displayed. Since the radio doesn't function (right?) I would disconnect power to it to re-initialize code entry. According to the manual the display should read "CODE" when its turned on after a power disconnect. Enter the five numbers using the six station selection buttons. If you get it wrong the first time, finish out five digits. The radio should redisplay CODE. You have up to three tries. If blow it each of the three times "the radio will not accept another entry until it has been left on for one hour." "Exception: If you hear a beep when entering your code, stop immediately! Begin entering the code again, starting with the first digit." (The quoted parts are from the '95 Discovery NAS owner's manual, but are in line with the non-NAS instructions in the Troubleshooting Manual.) Good luck! John At 08:12 07.12.95 GMT, fv67@dial.pipex.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Help [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] >happy christmass >andy waples From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Dec 27 12:08:24 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 12:08:24 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: test message! Hi. Please don't respond, i'm just trying to figure out a problem with my system. Thanks for not responding. Cheers Dave From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Dec 27 12:08:57 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 12:08:57 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Off road techniques, Part 1 Some helpful rules of thumb to help get you through the holiday off-roading season: 1. If you do choose to go off-roading, try to do it on a Holiday, such as Christmas Eve, when no one else will be out. This way you will have the whole track to yourself. There will be no "danger" of seeing other humans in your wilderness venue of choice. 2. The colder the better. A great time to go out is when its dark, and cold. Remember, we want to be completely alone. 3. Make absolutely certain that at least one major system of the vehicle is on its last legs. A good one would be the clutch. Don't worry, its a Land-Rover. It doesn't need a clutch. This will heighten the sense of real adventure. 4. When driving off road, there is no point in following existing wheel marks. These routes are simply for the unenlightened. Choose the road less traveled, and you are sure to find excitement and adventure. 5. When using a Hi-lift Jack to recover your vehicle from a muddy, wet, snow and ice-filled rut, be sure to get it up good and high, so that when the vehicle comes down off the jack it makes a nice big splash. This way everyone will know when they see you that you were really doing some cool stuff. Also, if you are driving a Series III or later vehicle, make sure the handle of the jack is properly positioned, so that it can easily penetrate the grill when you knock it over. This will allow the vehicle to "breathe". 6. If this recovery method does not work, its time to start walking. No problem if you can't lock the car, since no one will be out there anyway. But just to be sure, leave some money in plain sight so that any sticky fingered types will take that instead of your valuable tubs of gear oil, spares, and other important things. The Hi-lift jack has already been proven worthless so they can have that. 7. At this point, try some psychic channeling to get someone to come out onto the trail and rescue you and your vehicle. If you really concentrate, someone you haven't seen since high school will soon appear in a large V8 powered American 4x4, suitably equipped to extract your vehicle. At this point it is advisable to go into great detail regarding the many virtues of American Trucks. 8. After being pulled out of the aforementioned bog, make sure that your clutch (or other major component) is getting continually worse. This will allow you to continue in "adventure mode" until you reach home. If you have chosen clutch, than make sure you stall at least once in front of oncoming traffic. For the real adventurous types, try stopping in front of cars that are aimed for the gas tank. 9. After you are home and safe, a good idea would be to check the level of hydraulic fluid in your clutch reservoir, especially if you bought the vehicle used and haven't had the cap off yet. Don't be alarmed by an extremely low level, you can simply bleed it and be on your way again. But before doing that, practice grinding the various gears for a while and you will soon begin to appreciate the beautiful sounds that can be made with this little known "instrument" 10. Try and get your Dad to help you work on the vehicle, as this will help to build his understanding of the do-it-yourself ethic that LRO's hold so dearly. If this is lost on him and he says things like "well if it didn't break all the time...", then buy him a bottle of Scotch and change the subject... Happy Motoring! Dave "Not Sorry About Anything" Bobeck 72 SerIII SWB, soon to have late IIa grill... From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 27 13:31:21 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:31:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Salesmen On 24 Dec 1995, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote: > Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because you > are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap > about making a profit when selling you these toys. " People who live in glass > houses should not throw stones" and that goes for you lawyers, doctors, and > miscellaneous high priced consultants. I work for the Federal government of Canada. I would note that we are not in the habit of making a profit... Not a lawyer, doctor or miscellaneous high priced consultant either, thus the 1964 109 sw and its eight friends kicking about. Why throw stones? I'll make a nice trebuchet here and fill with a nice surplus & dead 2.25l lump of iron. Where do you want it lobbed? (Hey, if those Brits can make one that will send a Mini a couple hundred yards...) Ahh, tea time. Well, I can supply petrol or diesel, so one lump or two he asks politely... You should realise by now that it is easier to attract flies with honey, rather than with vinegar... Rgds, From "barnett childress" Wed Dec 27 13:33:59 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 13:33:59 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Off-road techniques Dave, Thanks for all of the helpful tips! As a new owner of a Hi-Lift jack, and not having the chance to use it yet, I had absolutely no idea that "big splashes" were a part of proper jacking techniques! For that matter as the owner of a "newer" LR, I thought I was just supposed to bolt the jack to the vehicle to look cool? After all we ARE talking LR's here, do they really get stuck? One thing I do to heighten my off-road "adventures" is try to choose a track that is very remote, muddy and deep! I make sure, as you do, that I'm totally alone, and there are no trees around so the Superwinch is useless, (spooling out the cable is a pain anyhow). Besides, I only installed the winch to look cool as I drive thru the mall parking lots! P.S I find wearing sneakers heightens the "off-road experience", especially in the snow! Ha! Good wheelin' to ya! Barnett "Proud to drive my 95 D90, (even off-road)," Childress From Johnny Hansen Wed Dec 27 19:20:26 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 19:20:26 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Hansen Subject: New Website Hi all Danish Land Rover Club now has a homepage at following adress: http://www.dk-online.dk/users/hanse_jo/index.htm Have a nice new year Love Johnny Hansen - Copenhagen - Denmark 1982 Series III 109" Diesel (No name yet, but I'm open for proposals) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 27 11:33:11 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:33:11 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Santa good to me/What's up? >From: barnett childress[SMTP:barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com] Congratulations on all your new toys. I hope you have the opportunity to use them in the near future! >P.S. In regards to the bulk of the postings on the list lately: I find the exchange of Series LR "helpful hints" interesting, even if I own a Discovery. If for no other reason than to be thankful everything on the Disco is still in running order. (20 yrs from now, things may be different and I'll be exchanging Disco "helpful hints", who knows!) Since LR's are not nearly as common as other marques in the US (though the parking garage here at work would make that hard to prove. The Disco count in my building alone is up to 5 now!) I think the biggest advantage of the list is to allow LRO's an easy and convenient forum to exchange product experiences (good and bad), dealer experiences (good and bad) as well as aftermarket parts vendor experiences. Without the e-mail list, this infomation would be much more difficult for me to come by. I think the latest (semi-annual) Series v. LR/RR debate has been tabled. I think all of us LRO's appreciate the vehicle's capabilities and heritage regardless of date of manufacture and most of the "debate" amounts to merely friendly ribbing. From 27 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 27 Dec 95 14:48:06 EST From: Subject: Whatever happened to the Christmas spirit? Good Grief! I don't believe it, coming back to the office after 4 days away and I see everyone is yelling at each other! Come on, it doesn't matter which kind of Land Rover you have, we bought them because something about the vehicle makes us love them to death. Perhaps the passion we have for our own vehicles is expressing itself in defensive/aggressive flames to each other on their respective merits. Without the Series there would never be a current Land Rover. Without the current Land Rover there would not (at least in the USA) be as much strong an interest in the marque. What would life be like without both of them? Thanks Chris Browne Brit in Boston 95 Disco (happy memories of sleeping in the back of moving series 3s while in the army, never tried to sleep in the disco because I usually drive)! From Mark.Maslar@software.rockwell.com (Maslar, Mark) Wed Dec 27 16:42:16 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:42:16 -0500 From: Mark.Maslar@software.rockwell.com (Maslar, Mark) Subject: RE: LRNA's disdain Tom Rowe wrote: >Anyway, if there's that much dislike for the series models, I wonder >why they talk about the LR heritage in the sales brochures, with a >photo of series model? That's called marketing. LRNA is using the LR heritage to create a particular image -- of quality, time-proven design, ruggedness etc. And this is an accurate image -- they're not doing anything wrong. By creating the image they're not saying that their service/parts department is equipped to handle these older vehicles. It would be naive to expect that of *any* vehicle manufacturer, but they should at least be polite to series owners. Mark Maslar '95 Defender90 Yellow #2319 P.S. I've had several Jeep Wranglers wave to me (and I wave back), but have never had a Range Rover wave at me. I think the waving Jeep drivers recognize that the D90 is superior to their vehicle (or maybe they think it's a giant jeep?). I've talked to two Range Rover drivers and asked them if they've off-roaded. Both seemed to have the attitude "No, I wouldn't do that to my vehicle." Not everyone buys a LR for its off roading capabilities, and that's OK. But it seems that off-roaders are a bit more into the marquee. From "- Vince Bobba" 27 1995 Dec U 1914 Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:39:32 U From: "- Vince Bobba" Subject: CD Player for 95 Disco Subject: Time: 2:28 PM OFFICE MEMO CD Player for 95 Disco Date: 12/27/95 According to LRNA the CD player offered (as an accessory) in the 95 Discovery is a unit manufactured by Pioneer . I've seen it as low as $595 from some of the more aggressive mail order houses, but am wondering if anyone knows the specific model and if there is a less pricey way to add this capability. The Disco is already wired for this particular model, with what appears (to me) to be an oddball connector. Has anyone been down this path? Any ideas on stereo mods would be welcome! Thanks, Vince Bobba Mountain View, CA From Mike Dryfoos Wed Dec 27 15:07:28 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:07:28 -0800 From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: Re: LRNA disdain At the Seattle dealership, they have always been amused, not appalled, to see me drive up in my Series IIA. I drove it down there for the party they threw for the Range Rover 4.0 introduction, and they sent out their videographer to take its picture. I had to show the kid doing the valet parking how to double-clutch... I don't imagine their shop would know how to fix the SIIA if something were broken, but they did tell me they have the microfiche parts lists for the Series vehicles. |From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" |>From: Tom Rowe[SMTP:TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU] [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] |>front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-) |Be sure to wear your flak jacket! From Treit Le 27 95 Dec 1918 Date: 27 Dec 95 18:34:12 From: Treit Le Subject: Errata Re: jpappa01@interserv.com.....The engine choices for all new Land Rover NAS vehicles for the 1996 MY are as follows:....Range Rover Classic: 3.9L V8 182 HP Is there really a 1996 NAS Classic??? The 12/95 LRO was not specific as to the model year of the 25th Anniversary model. Seems somewhat late in the year to announce a '95. The Jeep dealer near me has a sign announcing that the '97 Wrangler will be in the showroom soon. BTW to the person in upstate NY, regarding the choice between a Land Rover product and a GM product. You probably got a lot of comments on off-road performance. But in other matters....LR products are more likely to hold up to wear and tear and remain plush. Or maybe their owner's just care more. You will definitely want to be near a dealer for service with either. The parts and ownership costs of a LR are higher. My pet peeve is the $125US front mud flaps. With the exception of the 4.6RR, LR's are pretty sluggish and have minimal rear passenger room. With my normal position of having the seat all the way back, it feels snug front and rear. Triet Le '95 Classic From macleme@whin.net Wed Dec 27 18:30:58 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:30:58 -0600 From: macleme@whin.net Subject: Rodent in '93 County I own a '93 Range Rover County (SWB) which I drive in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and is still under warranty. About 2 weeks ago, after a particularly brutal snowstorm, I noticed that the fan began to make a loud vibrating noise every time I turned the heat on. In addition, insulation began to blow out of the passenger side airduct/defrost vent. I described this over the telephone to my local Land Rover specialist and he immediately said "you've got a critter" inside your vehicle. I took the vehicle in today for repairs and, without examining the vehicle in any great detail, the repairman claimed that he was sure that a rodent was responsible for my situation. He claims this has happened to several other Range Rover owners in the area. Furthermore, I was also told that this is not a scenario covered under my warranty and that it entails over 10 hours of labor at $60.00 an hour (apparently the engine needs to be removed). Has anybody heard of this happening and if so, can this be prevented (aside from setting mousetraps, I wasn't even aware that I had mice in my garage). Thanks, Mark Clemence macleme@whin.net From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 27 19:52:43 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:52:43 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Frame welding I'm ready to cut off the rear frame crossmember on my 88. (The new galvanized crossmember w/extensions has been waiting patiently for over two years now.) Anyway, the springs are off, the bolts holding the body box are all loose, I'm just waiting for a *little* warmer weather - the MIG welder doesn't work so good below freezing (it's only 110 volt). Several questions: To remove the wiring harness, are there Lucar connectors somewhere, or do I have to disconnect at each light? Also, is it better or easier to do lap welds or butt welds? Any other tips from those who have done this would be helpful. The "DIY Guide to Rover Restorations..." isn't particularly helpful. They are working with an absolutely naked frame with at least a 100' feet of working room in every direction - obviously not "real life." Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Dec 27 17:50:18 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 17:50:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Rodent in '93 County On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 macleme@whin.net wrote: > I own a '93 Range Rover County (SWB) which I drive in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and > is still under warranty. About 2 weeks ago, after a particularly brutal [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Has anybody heard of this happening and if so, can this be prevented (aside from > setting mousetraps, I wasn't even aware that I had mice in my garage). Rats and mice in the heating system? Man, talk about major design flaws! And removing the engine to get at the duct work and blower? I'd be a little skeptical too. Sounds like a good opportunity to query the LRNA for a second opinion about the feasibility of such a thing happening, and why? As a series owner, I feel quite superior since such a thing could never happen (little duct work and hardly any blower) but as a Range Rover owner, it makes me apprehensive that it could happen to me. Life is tough. Keep us posted on how this works out. Walt Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From TONY YATES Thu Dec 28 10:19:29 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:19:29 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Rodent in '93 County Buy a ferret. Once a week send it on a foray into the heating system. Cheaper and easier than removing the engine. ;-) Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| '85 110 V8 (Pamela) ----- ----- ===================================================================== From Softy90@aol.com Wed Dec 27 22:39:25 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:39:25 -0500 From: Softy90@aol.com Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... someone wrote: >I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with >crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc. The reply [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >*perfect* for this market. Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual >everything. I tend to agree with the LRNA "luxury" concept here. I recently tried sell a Mercedes 300D for a friend in Southern California. The MBZ was a strippo, no A/C, no power nuthin'...and that was the reponse I got from advertising it...nuthin'. Noone wanted a Benzo without at least A/C. Granted the used sport ute market might be different from used luxo market, but it seems to me that people still will choose the more optioned-out car in the used market where the differences in price get smaller and smaller. This brings out another point regarding the "yuppie" thang. If Rovers where only sold to "enthusiasts" then none of us would be driving 'em. Just as in the super car craze in the '60s, many enthusiasts were the recipient of a "subsidizing" effect of these wonderful machines. "Subsidized" by the many buyers who had only the money, and nothing else, to buy the vehicles. No real understanding of proper gearing, high compression, or high lift/longer duration cams, complained about hard starting in cold weather (muscle cars), or 11 inches of suspension travel, ladder frames, and locking center diffs (off road vehicles). Sometimes it is hard for me to accept this, being an enthusiast. I want everyone who owns one to be committed to learning. Somehow I think the more people that become interested, the more these vehicles will be around. I understand the operational consequences of living with a unique specialized vehicle. The mechanics-- I'm able to repair what breaks, I enjoy talking about modifications with other owners, and I am interested in the heritage of these vehicles--heck, that's why I read this list. But, on the other hand, I am a "subsidizer" too. I didn't know anything about Land Rovers before I bought this D90. I had an old bronco, but never took it off road, I just loved the body style, and being able to repair and modify the thing myself, (I have always been a hot rodder). I definately was not an off-roader at all. I still might not be...don't really have plans to regularily go to outtings etc... though I have scratched up both sides of this $30,000 truck driving off road, will continue do so if the oppourtunity arises, and I drive it through all the snow I can find. And, regarding the numbers, I really have no business spending this much on a vehicle considering my income. The only way I can rationalize it is because I AM an enthusiast. To me, so far, it is worth the sacrifices I must make to drive one of these and experience a synergistic union of engineering, man, and machine...even if I never truly test any of the three. I am grateful for all those who who buy LR Products (even if they don't wave), so that they are as within reach as they are to people of my means. John. 1994 D90 softop in Wisconsin ...haven't decided on "softy" or "rusty" yet... From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 27 23:49:35 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:49:35 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Sandy replies AMEDEO 102505.3511@compuserve.com wrote: >-engines: 95 Disco with 4.0 and 4.6 liter engines... Sorry, I meant *96* not '95. Typo. >I am somewhat disappointed about some inaccuricies in your message: mark-ups of 15-16% on Discoveries? I stand by that statement: it came from a source *inside* LRNA at Lanham. It also approximates the figures in Edmunds. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Wed Dec 27 23:54:36 1995 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:54:36 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Re: Cappings and Galvanizing In regards to recent postings about treatments for the galvanizing...... Eastwood (USA) and others make a cold zinc galvanizing compound.......comes in quarts and spray cans.......get the non spray type. Very durable stuff. Use a foam type brush.....as opposed to a bristle type brush. 'Dab' it on......sorta splotchy. Do this twice. Looks decent, keeps rust a bay for quite awhile and doesn't have the 'shiny silver paint effect'. Dabbing it on actually sorta duplicates the natural 'splotchiness' of the original galvanizing. This, of course, is not meant to be as good as actual dipping....but it's about the second best alternative. Cheers. Cordially: Rick Crider Monroe NC 66 SIIa 109" ......and for sale....... 73 SIII 88" 88 Range Rover From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Dec 28 00:57:30 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:57:30 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: ROAV's Sun Visors...... Well I received my new external sun visor from the ROAV, via Sandy Grice. They really are a work of art. I do not have a 'genuine' old one to compare it to but I hardly see how an original could possibly be any better. The visor itself is very heavy aluminum plate, straight as an arrow, beautiful breaks and bends. Nicely ground edges. Nicely machine punched bolt holes. The brackets are plenty sturdy and have *real* galvanizing. The aluminum visor is almost too pretty to paint. Haven't installed it yet. Actually haven't even painted it yet. Doesn't look to be any problem at all though. For the record, I'm not associated with ROAV (other than a dues paying member) or with Sandy Grice.......actually have not even met any of the group. Just a very satisfied customer. Cordially: Rick Crider KD4FXA Monroe NC 66 SIIa 109" .......and for sale...$8650......... 73 SIII 88" ........couldn't be bought........ 88 Range Rover........the daily mule........ ----------From pmarx@netcom.com Thu Dec 28 00:01:25 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:01:25 -0800 From: pmarx@netcom.com Subject: kerosene on the debate... Dear Folk: Owning a Disco has been one of the great joys of this last year...until earlier today. I happened to have lunch in a badly infested area (with yup's) of Santa Monica (California) this afternoon and parked directly in front of a brand-new (sparkling!) Beluga Black 1996 Discovery. A well-dressed couple and a nicely groomed Labrador Retriever (accessory?) were getting out at the same time I was pulling up. It turns out they bought their car two days ago, love it dearly (more than their Porsche) and had the wood panelling installed yesterday. Wood Panelling??!!! Inside a Land Rover?! Waaaaa! Eeeek! (and various other caterwallings!) It looked just like a Jag...only about three feet higher off the ground! Maybe the Series owners will take an embarrassed Disco owner into their ranks...? Please? Peter Marx - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From Mark Perry Thu Dec 28 03:27:46 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 03:27:46 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: windshield washers Alan Richer's account of windshield washer installation parallels mine, though I used a tank/pump ass'y from a Suzuki Samurai I got at a wrecker's yard for $5. Could be same or similar as used in Toyota. I first used the spray head from the Suzuki set in the bonnet but the angle was bad, so I went to Genuine Parts spray nozzles which I drilled for and mounted in the windscreen frame as per SerIII. With push button on dash, all works great. In Winnipeg, in fall and spring especially, there are times when it's asking for trouble not to have a windscreen washer setup. You can lose vision in seconds in muddy spray in traffic. A must-have here. Of course, I still have the Lucas wiper motors and dinky blades to operate ... Regards, Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From Lloyd Allison Thu Dec 28 21:44:22 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 21:44:22 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: stripped Disco In high taxing Europe there is a (really stripped) commercial Discovery: http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/Landy/Disco.com.html - thanks to Tony Luckwill Dealers and old Landies: in a dealer's in Melbourne, next to the new Disco and Rangie on the showroom floor, is one of the company's old Landies, this one a 1948 (not for sale). They are always very polite and courteous when they take your money! Lloyd ~ From NADdMD@aol.com Thu Dec 28 08:39:53 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:39:53 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Electrochemistry: Friend or Foe? Hi all, I've come to a place in my restoration where I need imput. How do people patch/repair or otherwise deal with the corrosion around bolt holes in the aluminium sheet metal? Can I just place a large (preferably) aluminium washer on the bolt before replacement? What about structural integrity? Secondly, does anyone have a solution to replace the aluminium plate on the underside of the top section of the front fenders to which the steel mud shields bolt? I have thought of brazing a replacement aluminium plate to the cleaned but corroded old plate, but I am not sure it would hold. All suggestions and comments are welcome Thanks for the help Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 28 05:50:17 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 05:50:17 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: kerosene on the debate... Okay. I confess. (Sob!) I too have wood paneling in my Discovery, but it was already installed when I bought it. I told the dealer I didn't want it, but he said that they couldn't take it out. At least they gave it to me for free. Doesn't seem to hurt the off-road performance any, and it lulls any passengers into a false sense of well-being. (It looks just like a Jaguar!) Cheers! John '95 Discovery (Who dresses you? Your mom?) At 00:01 28.12.95 -0800, pmarx@netcom.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Dear Folk: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >- - - >( just a couple of bits coming your way. ) From w1eox@ix.netcom.com (Yves Feder) Thu Dec 28 06:10:46 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:10:46 -0800 From: w1eox@ix.netcom.com (Yves Feder) Subject: rodents at play Actually rodents getting into heating systems is a pretty common occurence (at least here in New England when fall turns abruptly to winter...!) Have had it happen several times in BOTH our Subaru Legacy 4X4 wagons, as tightly built as these mini-plushwagons are :) Field mice can squeeze through the tinest of openings... amazing actually. You do want to get them out before the - ahem - smell gets too bad. In our 1963 Series 109, the problem has never occurred but in the Subarus it's almost a procedure I look 4WD to every fall.... and all it involves is dropping the (aptly named) squirrel cage blower from its housing in the vent plenum where the li'l micey guys like to make their nests (you'll find fur, straw, wood chips, etc.etc.) and clean the thing out. In most cars one can get to this stuff from inside the passenger compartment. An hour's work at most, including disassembly, cleaning, removing and reattaching the blower wiring harness, and putting the interior panels back. To remove the engine (!!!!!) and charge for ten hours work to do this?!?!? I can't believe that even on a Rangie this would be the case. Look for a second opinion, or alternatively don't be afraid to tackle the job yourself. It's no biggie, and have pity on the poor li'l critters who need the warmth your engine/heater provides after you park it and go inside..... Good luck... Yves 1963 Ser IIa 109 3/4t trucque Yves Albert (Al "Al") Feder w1eox@ix.netcom.com Harpsichord Workshops and Recording Studios "Danged if'n I unnerstand all I know" From Ross Leidy Thu Dec 28 09:21:34 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 09:21:34 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: Re: kerosene on the debate... On 12/28/95 at 05:50 AM, "John C. White, III" penned: >Okay. I confess. (Sob!) I too have wood paneling in my Discovery, >but it was already installed when I bought it. I told the dealer I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >performance any, and it lulls any passengers into a false sense of >well-being. (It looks just like a Jaguar!) >Cheers! >John >'95 Discovery (Who dresses you? Your mom?) Don't underestimate the appeal of real wood. Any LRO whose vehicle is a bit more spartan than the Disco could easily increase the value of the vehicle and add to its aesthetic qualities simply by bolting a 4 foot length of 2x4 to the dash. Choose a stain color to complement the interior, and coat with a good polyurethane (2 coats if you expect to be submerged). ;) ______________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 From LTC Larry Smith Thu Dec 28 9:43:03 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 9:43:03 EST (1443Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Tire Wear To all, I am getting uneven wear on the outer edge of the left front tire on my SWB Series III petrol. Vehicle has 117,000 PLUS miles. At first I thought it might be the alignment (toe in), because I am getting some minor wear on the right also. However, the left is now really being eaten up. Occurs both with and without the freewheeling hubs engaged. Before I tackle track rod ends, swivel joints, shim plates, etc. as a whole, does anyone have a specific area I should look at first? Hubs are a recent (10,000 miles +/-) replacement and appear to be in good shape. Wrong preload? The tire appears to "layover" quite a bit when turned to the left. Don't have the same amount of "layover" on the right when turned to the right. Thanks in advance your help/suggestions. 'til later, Larry From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 28 10:05:56 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 10:05:56 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack Hi all, I have been thinking of different ways to carry a Hi-lift jack, shovel, Max Axe, Pull Pal, and extra fuel in or on my D90. Inside space is pretty tight especially sense I'm planning to install two inward facing bench seats, and some sort of a storage locker for tools, winch kit, oil, Etc. I was thinking of having a rear rack made that would bolt onto the spare tire carrier where the wheel bolts up and would be removable. This would give me a place to carry two 5 gallon cans on either side of the tire, and the Hi-lift jack and shovel across the back. A few recent posts have mentioned a full roof rack that bolts up to the roll cage on the D90. I would like your thoughts and some advice on the following; 1) - Which rack do you think would be better, and why? The rear rack would be removable but the roof rack would be permanent. 2) - I know the roof rack would increase the possibility of tipping, and reduce the angle that could be safely traversed on a side hill, but does anyone know how much? I don't think having the extra weight on the back of the vehicle would make any difference in this regard. 3) - Does a roof rack add a lot of noise when driving on the highway? I have to travel 70 miles a day to work. Again, the rear rack would be removable but even if left on I don't think noise would be any different. Any comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I was all set to start the fabrication until I saw the roof rack posts. Thanks, and waiting for your replies. Barnett Childress 95 AA yellow D90 Superwinch Husky 8 winch/HD bumper (Camel Trophy setup). OME HD suspension. ARB air lockers. Soon to have rear seats, and some kind of rack! 4) - From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 28 10:14:57 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 10:14:57 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:rodents at play We had a similar problem in my wife's Toyota corolla. The mice had taken the insulation and completely blocked up the air vents. I cleaned out what I could reach but it didn't completely fix the problem. The dealer cost to have this fixed was very expensive due to the fact that they would have to completely dissemble the dash, very labor intensive. The dealer told us it was a good idea to keep the circulator switch in the closed (recycle) position when the car was not being used. Good luck, Barnett Childress From "Craig R. Jett" Thu Dec 28 10:20:32 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:20:32 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: RE: CD Player for 95 Disco Vince Bobba wrote: "The Disco is already wired for this particular model, with what appears (to me)to be an oddball connector. " I went down this path a month ago and this is what I found: The model and "oddball" connector is actually an old Pioneer model that was last made in '93. That old version CD player is no longer available, and there is not an adapter made to convert. Looked into making a connector but could not get the schematics. SO.... I bought the factory CD player, and paid through the nose. Two pluses though: 1. Very easy to install - 5 minutes in the dark, with bitter cold was all it took. 2. Sounds great. Good Luck! Craig Jett 95 Alpine White Discovery From Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Thu Dec 28 10:35:05 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:35:05 -0500 From: Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Subject: Re: LRNA Disdain To add my two cents to the response one gets from dealers; when I brought my '94 Discovery in for its first service, the rear bumper was distinctly bent and the beautiful Beluga black clear coat was attractively decorated by forest pin striping. Anyway, when I went to pick it up, the service manager asked "You've been offroad, haven't you?" sounding somewhat surprised. When I admitted this, he continued: "You know, we've been selling Range Rovers for 20 years, but the Discovery is attracting a very different sort of customer. They actually seem to be taking them off-road!" My point is, the dealer's attitudes are as much a product of the customer as starting from within. Who knows, not withstanding the wood-trimmed Discos we've been hearing about, maybe the dealers are going to evolve into someone more in tune with the whole spectrum of LR uses? BTW, with the clearcoat, the black buffed out beautifully, and gives one all the more reason to add more pinstriping in the future. Martin Eglitis '94 Discovery From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 28 09:41:14 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:41:14 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Frame welding Sandy Grice asks: Snip > Several questions: To remove the wiring harness, are there Lucar connectors > somewhere, or do I have to disconnect at each light? Also, is it better or > easier to do lap welds or butt welds? Snip I don't recall about the connectors, but memory tells me there aren't any. If it were me I'd go with the butt weld, but I used to be a professional weldor. However, you may be more satisfied with the lap weld. It will be easier. Make sure the base metal is melting so you don't get cold lap (where the filler just sits on the base metal). Watch out for the zinc fumes. With mig be sure to weld only bare metal for the best weld. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 28 07:42:48 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:42:48 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack Barnett, I made a carrier for my D-90. I tried to fit the jerry cans on the side, but could not get the door to open correctly. I ended up building a rack off the back of the spare ___ T | I | R_ | E |________ I used some foam to eliminiate chafing on the spare tire, and bolted the rack to the tire with a "big" bolt. Russ Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 28 09:47:56 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:47:56 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Electrochemistry: Friend or Foe? Nate Dunsmore asks: Snip > Secondly, does anyone have a solution to replace the aluminium plate on the > underside of the top section of the front fenders to which the steel mud > shields bolt? snip I must do the same thing on mine. Any decent sheetmetal shop should be able to spot weld on new ones. Although I'm considering deviating from the original and riveting on SS ones. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 28 07:48:46 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:48:46 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Sir Lamplighter (dixon) Sir Lamplighter...., I got my ovlr news letter yesterday, and heard a couple of lines on how you won the illustrious lug nut award. Pray tell, is backing over lamp poles a sport north of the border??. Down in the deep south Michigan we do have a rural hobby of knocking over mailboxes with the bumper. I realize that mailboxes would not be much of a challenge for macho drivers equiped with a Land Rover. Now lamp poles... that could be interesting. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "CLAVEN" 28 1995 Dec U 1907 Date: 28 Dec 1995 07:48:15 U From: "CLAVEN" Subject: verify addresses and resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP The Land Rover Owner Daily !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! Land-Rover-Owner List & Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List Send submissions to the list to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net To UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to: MajorDomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net with the text: unsubscribe lro-digest Tell your friends SUBSCRIBE send a message to: MajorDomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net with the text: subscribe lro-digest Majordomo can also respond to other commands, send text: help Contents: 1 fv67@dial.pipex.com Sun Dec 24 03:17 28/968 discovery radio/Cas 2 rxq281@freenet.mb.ca Sun Dec 24 03:41 39/2036 Canadian Ser1 & Fuel fill 3 fv67@dial.pipex.com Sun Dec 24 03:43 28/968 discovery radio/Cas 4 omont@mnl.sequel.net Sun Dec 24 05:22 29/1165 Merry Christmas 5 igor@tinet.ch Sun Dec 24 06:47 33/1436 Merry Christmas from Swit 6 burns@cisco.com Sun Dec 24 12:07 50/2502 Merry Christmas 7 burns@cisco.com Sun Dec 24 12:07 50/2540 Merry Christmas 8 burns@cisco.com Sun Dec 24 12:16 34/1653 Re: D90 SW 9 102505.3511@compuserve.com Sun Dec 24 12:50 29/1469 Salesmen 10 wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Sun Dec 24 14:24 42/2031 Re: Merry Christmas from 11 avdende@nik.publishnet.nl Sun Dec 24 14:52 36/1466 Bulk 12 71643.2453@compuserve.com Sun Dec 24 15:50 30/1596 Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE 13 CpaulP@aol.com Sun Dec 24 16:17 19/1035 Re: The Land Rover Owner 14 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Sun Dec 24 16:29 59/2801 Re: Salesmen 15 Sanna@aol.com Sun Dec 24 16:52 28/1615 Re: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE 16 dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca Sun Dec 24 17:55 34/2190 silver plate 17 jcwhite3@well.com Sun Dec 24 18:36 78/3711 Re: Salesmen 18 BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Dec 24 18:38 27/1166 Washer fluid and wives 19 smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil Sun Dec 24 20:26 38/2266 Re: Salesmen 20 burns@cisco.com Sun Dec 24 22:12 61/2761 Re: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE 21 swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Sun Dec 24 22:58 45/1868 Happy Christmas to Everyo 22 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Mon Dec 25 00:31 34/1740 Re: silver plate 23 JFisk1120@aol.com Mon Dec 25 01:53 36/1970 "My Rover Trips" From fv67@dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 07 08:12:42 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:12:42 GMT From: fv67@dial.pipex.com Subject: discovery radio/Cas Help ive just brought a 1992 five door discovery but the radio just shows 154. any ideas. ive got the code but how do i program it in??? happy christmass andy waples From Mark Perry Sun Dec 24 02:41:47 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 02:41:47 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Canadian Ser1 & Fuel filler I've been unsubscribed and out of touch with the digest for a bit, but LRO Intl mag can't fill all the needs. Speaking of LRO Intl mag, I noticed in the current Readers' Rovers section a pic of a Series 1 with cut-back front wings, which were said to make it look like a version "used by the Canadian army." Is this so and who knows what about these models (Dixon K?) and have any survived? I also noticed in same issue that Canadian UNPROFOR contingent in Bosnia have been using three of the Courtlands composite-armored LRs. Probably some of the better kit our guys have, especially compared to the Iltis. The new Western Star trucks are no great shakes either, so one of the troops told me. I'm still looking for the telescopic filler extension, p/n 504656 for my 88" IIA. Local LROs, Octopus and Paul Safari couldn't turn one up for me here in Canada. Does anyone out there have one? It's no longer available as a separate item from Genuine Parts. Name your price. I have a few swappable parts also, if anyone's looking for something. Regards Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From fv67@dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 07 08:40:33 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:40:33 GMT From: fv67@dial.pipex.com Subject: discovery radio/Cas Help ive just brought a 1992 five door discovery but the radio just shows 154. any ideas. ive got the code but how do i program it in??? happy christmass andy waples From owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Mon Dec 25 02:55:04 1995 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 02:55:04 -0500 From: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Subject: discovery radio/Cas Precedence: bulk From Dixon Kenner Thu Dec 28 10:50:13 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: re:rodents at play On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, barnett childress wrote: > We had a similar problem in my wife's Toyota corolla. The mice had taken > the insulation and completely blocked up the air vents. I cleaned out what > I could reach but it didn't completely fix the problem. My experience with Series LR's is that mice leave the air system alone. However, they do love the area behind the dash. From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 28 10:57:40 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 10:57:40 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Racks Thanks Russ, I had not thought about the changing angles when you open the door and the tire carrier pivots. Would locating the cans a little farther out on the sides also solve this? Barnett. From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Thu Dec 28 10:56:49 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 10:56:49 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Re: kerosene on the debate... >Don't underestimate the appeal of real wood. Any LRO whose [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Choose a stain color to complement the interior, and coat with a >good polyurethane (2 coats if you expect to be submerged). ;) Not only snobby, but US centric too. That should be 1.25m length of 5cm x 10cm, harvested from an environmentally managed new growth forest and varnished using renewable resources such as di-hydrogen oxide, with extremly low VOC's (asymptotically approaching zero in it's pure form). I actually have applied wood to my Disco, (a black beluga, fwiw) and found that the sticks are a real pain to remove from the grill, however the twigs etc. after polishing the sides, make a wonderful statement if left wedged into the rain gutter! The fellow I bought my Disco from (via the dealer) had every option known to man installed (except the leather seats thankfully) including tinting the windows, the brush bars, the rear jump seats, the dual sunroofs, the cd player and the extra AC. He then traded it in after 10 months & 11K miles and I bought it at what I thought was a good price (30k). This supports the general statments on the list, let the yuppies by them and drive them 'till they're bored, it gives us thrifty folk a good supply of quality used vehicles. ttfn, Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com 5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829 From Jack Stansbury Thu Dec 28 11:07:12 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 11:07:12 EST From: Jack Stansbury Subject: Seat Frame Breaking This is my first submission to the Land Rover mailing list. From reading it for awhile, I see there are lots of people that love these machines! My wife and I bought a 96 Discovery about a month ago. At the time of delivery, the frame underneath the driver's seat was cracked. The cracks were around one of the screws that holds the front of the frame to the floor. When we pointed this out to the salesperson (Tischer in Laurel, Maryland), they said they hadn't seen that before, but that they would fix it. They actually replaced it with one from a floor model. Well, we have now had this seat frame replaced three times, and it's broken again! Has anyone else seen this, or does anyone have any idea why this keeps happening? I think the base of the frame may not be sitting level on the floor, so when they screw it down, it cracks the plastic. I have mentioned this to the salesperson, but it still happens. In addition, one of the little plastic "screws" that hold down the driver's side mat keeps breaking. We are on our third (fourth?) one of these also. I'm not sure if the two problems could be related, but they may be. Any ideas? Aside from this, and aside from the promises that the salesperson keeps making and breaking, we do love it! We are looking forward to taking it to West Virginia and other places where we never felt comfortable taking our cars before. It's too bad it was in the shop for another seat frame replacement when it snowed here last. Looking forward to the next snow! Jack Stansbury Rockville, Maryland '96 Discovery 5-speed Avalon Blue (no name yet) From Dixon Kenner Thu Dec 28 11:12:28 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:12:28 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Frame welding On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > I don't recall about the connectors, but memory tells me there aren't > any. If the harness is original (II/IIA) there should be connectors above the grommet where the harness emerges from the frame in the rear. From there, two seperate bundles go up to the lights on either side. From Dixon Kenner Thu Dec 28 11:28:34 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:28:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Sir Lamplighter (dixon) On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, russ burns wrote: > I got my ovlr news letter yesterday, and heard a couple of lines on > how you won the illustrious lug nut award. Pray tell, is backing over [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > I realize that mailboxes would not be much of a challenge for macho drivers > equiped with a Land Rover. Now lamp poles... that could be interesting. The lamp post was more of a challenge. Yes, up here, as in Michigan knocking off rural mailboxes is a sport for the local children. However, as there are those who grow fatigued with replacing the box regularly, they have gone to welding it to a strong post. (Not too strong. One chap up the valley got so sick of the kids blowing away his mail box, and the plough in the winter doing in the post he built a post/mailbox out of 150 pound rail, sunk 8' into the ground, with a plate steel mailbox. The mailbox was a success. He found bits and pieces f baseball bat around it one morning. The post got him into a bit of trouble. Seems the plough decided that it would be fun to blow away his post again that year. Plough did at least one 360 before ploughing into the ditch further down the road on the other side. County was very unhappy with the chap.) Because people are used to problems with mailboxes, they have taken protective measures of one sort or another. Hence the kids use baseball bats, rather than actually drive into it. (of course, a more common approach is welding the mailbox on a steel post and putting the steel post in a milk can full of concrete. Wakes the plough driver up, but moves... :-) Now, my landlords lamppost was a piece of cake... Didn't even mark the 109 when it hit. Had to use a winch to pull it back up again though. Was very happy when it actally worked (didn't break the wires underground) How'd I do it? Easy. Hop in the 109 and back up. Figured that it was parked properly in the driveway (it wasn't) Backing straight out, it strayed from the intended course and kinda got slowed a bit. Got it fixed in typical efficiency. About 6 weeks to do... The rest of my achievements are lies, falsehoods, being framed, or honest mistakes. Like, with a cooler full of beer on the floor next to you, relaxing in a lawnchair (only way to work on a LR), it is easy to put the front backing plates on the wrong sides... Did catch it though... I can tell the shoes apart which indicated that something might be wrong... Justified Ted getting more beer, which is justifiable... Rgds, PS, Like Dale's welding techniques? :-) From "barnett childress" Thu Dec 28 11:29:42 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 11:29:42 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:More on dealers Martin Eglitis writes; The dealer was surprised that he went off road with his discovery. I think he is right. The dealerships are dealing with a different type of customer than before. People are buying newer LR's with the intent of really going off-road. My dealer LRMW in Natick MA. realizes this and not only encourages people to explore their vehicles full potential, they also offer a full day of off-roading at a special course they have set up for free. I took them up on their offer and I was surpassed! The course was actually pretty good and definitely capable of putting a few dents in your new $30K LR. They covered rock crawling, steep hill climbs and decents, sand, mud, etc. They were there to guide people thru the rough spots and help out people that had never been off-roading before with gear selection etc. There were mostly discovery's there but a few range rovers. I had the only defender! If other dealers out there are not catering to their customers that really use their LR's, thats really to bad. Barnett From STEVE COX Thu Dec 28 12:16:09 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 12:16:09 -0500 (EST) From: STEVE COX Subject: Rover for sell in NC Below is a nice sounding Rover in the NC area: 1968 Series IlA Limestone. safari top, galvanized full rack, farley overdrive. 8,000 lb worm drive Warn winch. new tires, 12-13,000 miles on rebuilt engine by HarrelI motors in Waynesville NC. 16" wheels. This Rover has bean well cared for and is in good original condition. Has fuel tank leak and one outrigger to be replaced. Rest of frame excellant. Suspension and brakes excellent. $6,500.00 Contact: Jody Kuhne 123 Montford Avenue Asheville, NC 28801 704-254-9482 From William Owen Thu Dec 28 11:24:33 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:24:33 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Good dealers Our LR dealer in Nashville actually includes an off road "course" as part of their test drive. They have been exceptionally nice to me despite the fact I told them up front I might not buy for several months and even then it will probably be a used vehicle. I got no sales pressure but I did get to drive a new disco through ditches my Jeep would not have made and up a 45 degree hill in front of the dealer. They are actually a bit proud of the muddy tracks going up the hill. I do wish the salesman knew more technical info, especially about older RR's etc, but I was very pleased with their attitude. From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 28 10:01:46 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:01:46 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: rodents at play >Actually rodents getting into heating systems is a pretty common occurence >(at least here in New England when fall turns abruptly to winter...!) Have >had it happen several times in BOTH our Subaru Legacy 4X4 wagons, as tightly >built as these mini-plushwagons are :) >Field mice can squeeze through the tinest of openings... amazing actually. >had it happen several times in BOTH our Subaru Legacy 4X4 wagons, as Couldn't you just let the cat sleep in the car at night? Certainly that would be cheaper than 10hrs of a LR mechanic's labor. :-) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 28 10:53:32 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:53:32 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: kerosene on the debate... >From: John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com] >Okay. I confess. (Sob!) I too have wood paneling in my Discovery, but it >was already installed when I bought it. I told the dealer I didn't want it, >but he said that they couldn't take it out. At least they gave it to me for >free. Doesn't seem to hurt the off-road performance any, and it lulls any >passengers into a false sense of well-being. Don't worry, John, I think your Expedition Rack cancels out any negative effects of the Wood Trim. >(It looks just like a Jaguar!) Right! A Discovery looks like a Jaguar like a VW Beetle looks like a Porshe. I don't care how much wood trim you have (inside or out!). Now there's a thought, wood paneling on the outside. A "woody" Disco! Perfect for surfing. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Thu Dec 28 9:33:53 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 9:33:53 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... >>I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with >>crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc. >I tend to agree with the LRNA "luxury" concept here. >Granted the used >sport ute market might be different from used luxo market, but it seems to me >that people still will choose the more optioned-out car in the used market >where the differences in price get smaller and smaller I think the problem is not that only luxury sells. I believe a stripped- down model will sell, PROVIDED that it comes with a stripped down price. Look at the Defender 90, that's a pretty stripped down vehicle, but it costs over 30K and comes with hardly anything. That's when people have to struggle and justify the purchase. For comparison purposes, the Jeep Wrangler is a pretty stripped-down vehicle compared to the Cherokee, but Chrysler sells more Wranglers than Cherokee's; that's because the Wrangler is half the price of a loaded Cherokee. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Jim Edwards Thu Dec 28 11:54:52 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:54:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Edwards Subject: PTFE oil additives I use a additive called "tufoil" in my Discovery and used it for years in my IIa. I have always been a bit skeptical of many additive claims, but the company, Fluoramics, does send out test results. The latest data sheet quotes data from the National Bureau of Standards (NIST). They use a four ball test to look at the efficacy of oils and measure the time to smoking when the balls ar spun under pressure. All additives (including slick-50, Whiz, Wynns #85, Bitron, Fluorocote, Lubrilon, slick willie, etc) began smoking within 10 minutes, while the tufoil went 16 days. Of course, while I've been using it for years, I don't have a clue as to whether its doing anything except making me feel better by spending money. Fluoramics Phone # is 1-800-922-0075. I am not affliated with them in any way except being a satisfied customer. From Dixon Kenner Thu Dec 28 15:01:11 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 15:01:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... On Thu, 28 Dec 1995 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com wrote: > I think the problem is not that only luxury sells. I believe a stripped- > down model will sell, PROVIDED that it comes with a stripped down price. > Look at the Defender 90, that's a pretty stripped down vehicle, but it > costs over 30K and comes with hardly anything. That's when people have > to struggle and justify the purchase. . A stripper D90 would have a 4 banger TDi, a blindsider hardtop, steel wheels... Still be pricey, but nothing like the US Spec D90. From Ross Leidy Thu Dec 28 15:09:09 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 15:09:09 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... On 12/28/95 at 09:33 AM, rpeng@cadev6.intel.com penned: [snip] >down model will sell, PROVIDED that it comes with a stripped down >price. Look at the Defender 90, that's a pretty stripped down >vehicle, but it costs over 30K and comes with hardly anything. That's >when people have to struggle and justify the purchase. [snip] Whaddaya mean, "stripped down"--the D90's got two cup holders! _____________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 From "Bror 'Count' Heinola" Thu Dec 28 22:46:43 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 22:46:43 +0200 (EET) From: "Bror 'Count' Heinola" Subject: Re: rodents at play [take 2] (argh, I forgot to cc: the list!) Yves Feder taisi sanoa: > and all it involves is dropping the (aptly named) squirrel cage blower from > its housing in the vent plenum where the li'l micey guys like to make their > nests (you'll find fur, straw, wood chips, etc.etc.) and clean the thing out. That's essentially correct. Though I've never dismantled the Range Rover heater/fan assembly because of rodents, I've done it (or helped to do it) twice because the heater element broke. The procedure is fairly straightforward and no special tools are needed. In my car (a '76 Range Rover) taking the fan/heater assembly out required dismantling the underside of the dashboard pretty completely to make the removal easier. Glove box has to be removed, but the drivers side can be left in place provided that it has been loosened some so the center part can come off. It's advisable to drain the water out of the system first, or you'll make a mess. But then again, who's afraid of getting a bit wet and dirty in the process? ;-) The heater hoses are a pain to get off because the fasteners have usually rusted nicely, and I'd advice to replace them (and perhaps the hoses too, if they look worn out) just to make sure they won't start leaking. To make the heater work a bit better (if you happen to have an older model) flush it with water in reverse direction, there can be plenty of stuff coming out, especially if you've had a nasty accident with the head gasket. The whole thing took about 5 hours on the first try, and less than an hour on the second. > To remove the engine (!!!!!) and charge for ten hours work to do this?!?!? > I can't believe that even on a Rangie this would be the case. Well, the mechanics have to make a living too! ;-) Ok, so now I've delurked. Hello to all fellow Rover fans/fanatics! -- Bror 'Count' Heinola # E-mail: # Network admin of muncca.fi Pengerkatu 13b A5 # count@snafu.muncca.fi # Count in IRC 00530 HELSINKI # count@key.hole.fi # "Be excellent to each Cell: +358-40-5533-554 # ...free your mind... # other!" - Bill & Ted From Russell U Wilson Thu Dec 28 16:15:30 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:15:30 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: SOLD++ 1970 light wht for sale in Pa. Thanks to all who replied but as I said this thing sold in a flash. From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 28 16:57:58 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:57:58 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Russell U Wilson All; Anybody have a phone number for Russ Wilson from Pennsylvania ?? I Have his e-mail address but need his phone number.... Thanks Steve Bradke 72 Slll 88 From Gary Mitchelson Thu Dec 28 18:38:43 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 18:38:43 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Getting rid of scratches -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I know I'll probably catch hell for asking the following question but I will and do take my Discovery off-road on trails that non-LR 4WD's will not take theirs. Anyways here it goes. Has anyone have any suggestions for removing scratches from branches? I have in the past just used a good wax, a orbital buffer and several hours of time, is this the best approach? I picked up a nice assortment this time in the mountains of southwestern Virginia. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 28 18:48:33 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 18:48:33 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Russ Wilson.. Please disregard Please disregard my previous posting.. Thanks.........Steve From Magnet Thu Dec 28 19:07:05 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:07:05 -0500 (EST) From: Magnet Subject: Rodent in 93 Cty Heater Mark Clemence is advised he has a rodent in the heater of his '93 RR... Well, I think I smell a rodent, all right, but not sure it's in the heater. I too have a '93 RR County, and while it is in all respects an admirable car, it did give me a problem about a month ago that sounds very much like the one Mark describes. The heater would slow down and eventually stop, to the tune of a pronounce rumbling noise. Left alone for a bit it would re-start, but after about 3 or 4 minutes, slow down and stop again. I checked all the electrics up to the motor, and they were OK. As the symptoms were the same as I once had on a Marina, I figured the problem was probably the same too -- bearings on the fan motor seizing up. To get at this requires disassembly of the lower part of the dashboard, and then getting the case off the heater to get at the motor. It's not as bad as Mark's dealer implied, but it still is a nasty job, especially in the winter in an unheated garage. Anyway, I asked the dealer about it, since the car is still under warranty. They fixed it, no quibble, no argument, no cost. Mind you, they managed to forget to reconnect the wires for three of the lights in the heater control panel, the cruise control, and the cigarette lighter light when they reassembled everything, plus getting the subwoofer volume control wired up backwards... Yes, I know, that all sounds like yuppie fluff, but since the car has got all that stuff on it, it ought to work! Anyway, I fixed all those odds and ends, which was still a lot easier than fixing the heater, not to mention the cost of the new heater motor. I suppose it is too much to expect a dealer mechanic to be as painstaking as an owner would be, especially when he's only allowed X minutes to do a warranty repair. Still, I'd like to think that Rover dealers would employ first class people. My experience with this dealer (Lawrence Park Motors in Toronto) is that the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. That is, they are very courteous, and helpful, and have never given me any flak about warranty work, but their mechanics are either careless or don't have the time to check over their work to make sure everything is up to spec. However, they do get it more or less right eventually, if I have the time to let them. Rather a pity you can't just get the parts for free under the warranty. I'd much prefer to do the work myself (although as I said, not in the middle of winter!) By the way, I also have a 1959 Rover 90 CAR, and feel much about it the same as you Series LR people do about your cars -- the Beauty of Simplicity! But what can one do? They just don't make 'em like that any more. And I do have to admit that the ABS, electronic traction control, etc., etc., on the Range Rover are incredibly effective in snowy conditions. Enough babble! Happy New Year to all, and Happy Rovering! Cheers, -- Bill * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill Daddis -- Aurora, Ontario, Canada -- magnet@io.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From smitha@candw.lc Thu Dec 28 16:23:47 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:23:47 -0800 From: smitha@candw.lc Subject: Re: pricing .. On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > A stripper D90 would have a 4 banger TDi, a blindsider hardtop, > steel wheels... Still be pricey, but nothing like the US Spec D90. >It is a real pity that you cannot order direct from the UK. We don't have a dealership in the island so I had a 90 Tdi pickup built-to-order in Solihull last December and delivered on the banana boat in the first week of February this year. The options included specifying the type of engine, wheels, tyres, bars for front and sill protection, lighting, instruments, seats, etc. etc. There were dozens of them, right down to the mud flaps. The f.o.b. price was around 10,000 pounds, or $15,000. The basic vehicle was around $1000 less. (f.o.b. means the finished vehicle ready and delivered to the ship at the docks in the UK). I had earlier considered getting a used vehicle, but a look through the ads in LRO International showed that even for vehicles without the UK VAT tax, I would have to get something at least 5 years old to get significantly below that price. BTW that also included an independant inspection before delivery. Although I have only been on the 'net for 2 weeks (and found the Land Rover sites immediately), much of the Land Rover traffic seems to indicate that North American customers don't have any choice in what they are offered, and also that the serious users are given short shrift. However, if you live on an obscure island in the Leewards you can have what to me is essentially a Series 4A, made to meet a job description that you specify. Good luck From David Rosenbaum Thu Dec 28 17:54:29 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 17:54:29 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack Dear Barnett: I have been thinking about such things. No action yet. "Tuffy" makes a center console that locks and is bigger than the standard cubby (Jeff Gauvin recently put one in his D90). Masterack makes lockable bins that fit on the rear wheel wells. Yesterday I went to Seattle Land Rover and saw the D90 station wagon. Also, the folks there gave me a Station Wagon brochure, which includes a picture of the Safari Roof Rack. It looks great and the brochure reads: "The Safari Roof Rack is a necessity for the serious outdoor adventurer. Its full basket design provides ample storage for all types of cargo and includes a rear ladder for easy, convenient access. The rugged, tubular design is constructed from heavy-gauge steel for maxium strength and durabiltiy and accommodates all Defender 90 models. Available in matte black." As has been previously mentioned (by Jim Pappas?), it fastens to the front exterior safari cage, and to the back by a left-sided ladder that attaches to the chassis and a right rear pillar that extends down to the chassis. Most of my serious outdoor adventures happen in Seattle (by necessity rather than choice) so I have some concern about the *height* of the roof rack. The Seattle dealership doesn't have a price listed for the rack yet, but based on a D110 price of $1080 in '93, I was told it is probably in the $1200 range. I agree that space for Jerry cans of gas&water and secured HiLift and Pull Pal would be good. A rack on the rear tire would keep center of gravity from being so high. Stuff would be more accessable on a rear carrier, although the ladder on the Land Rover rack looks pretty good (my kids would probably *beg* me to let them fetch stuff!!). Please let me know what you decide. Best wishes, David From Dixon Kenner Thu Dec 28 23:10:00 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:10:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: pricing .. On Thu, 28 Dec 1995 smitha@candw.lc wrote: > Although I have only been on the 'net for 2 weeks (and found the Land Rover > sites immediately), much of the Land Rover traffic seems to indicate > that North American customers don't have any choice in what they are > offered, and also that the serious users are given short shrift. NA is getting hosed on the options, though to a great extent this has historically been the case, at least for the USA & Canada later on. It was possible in Canada to get strippers into the late 60's in Canada, but with BL etc. the US/Canadian spec vehicles would be considered top of the line in the UK. While I know in Canada it was possible to get more basic vehicles, today that is basically impossible. Phone LR(UK) and you get forwarded back to NA. > However, if you live on an obscure island in the Leewards you can have > what to me is essentially a Series 4A, made to meet a job description > that you specify. Ah, but you haven't tested it in snow yet. Can I interest you in a couple hundred million tons? :-) Got plenty to spare... For the NA Series owners.... Any idea when the LU761 taillight assembly was used? Seen LU691 and LU592, but not the 761. Must have been UK only. Looks very similar to the LU592 (flat topped with "ears" for the two screws. 691 is the chrome based unit found in II's and early IIA's. Think 761 has a clear piece on the bottom to illuninate the number plate.) From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 28 20:36:32 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:36:32 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack I would expect that the amount of change in your D90's tippability with a roof rack would depend on how much weight you put up there. As for noise, I have an expedition rack on my Discovery and at >50 mph with a cross wind I do find it noisy. My cure for this is to close the sunroofs and turn on the air conditioning (he said risking a rekindling the Great Plushmobile Skirmish of 1995). From the posts I've seen here on the Lists those canvas tops on a D90 are pretty noisy already. A roof rack will probably not make much difference. One thing you probably should keep in mind is that a roof rack adds a fair amount of height, which can keep you out of some parking garages. Cheers! John At 10:05 28.12.95 EST, barnett childress wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Hi all, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 47 lines)] >ARB air lockers. >Soon to have rear seats, and some kind of rack! >4) - From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 28 20:36:38 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:36:38 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: re:More on dealers Oh, that is good news! My dealership was appalled when I brought my Discovery around after its first romp. The reaction was a frowned, "It's scratched." So far, they're still catering to yuppies and the carriage trade. Here's to the Revolution, comrades! John At 11:29 28.12.95 EST, barnett childress wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Martin Eglitis writes; [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] >If other dealers out there are not catering to their customers that really >use their LR's, thats really to bad. >Barnett From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 28 20:37:25 1995 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:37:25 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux and yuppies... At 09:33 28.12.95 PST, Roger Peng wrote: >For comparison purposes, the Jeep Wrangler is a pretty stripped-down vehicle >compared to the Cherokee, but Chrysler sells more Wranglers than Cherokee's; >that's because the Wrangler is half the price of a loaded Cherokee. Well... a D90 ($30,000) is about half the price of a 4.6 HSE ($62,000). Cheers! John From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:10:01 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:10:01 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Power Seat Switches The power passenger seat back in my '89 Range Rover will not tilt forward (it still tilts backward) and the entire seat still slides forward and back. I took the fuse out so it will not get stuck all the way back. This would not bother me (I don't sit in the passenger seat) but, today was the third time that someone has tried to adjust the seat and then made a comment like "Land Rovers are nice, if only they didn't break all the time." I always tell people it is a German switch. I was going to try and take it apart tonight and try to fix it (the shop manual only tells how to replace the switch) but I thought I would post to the list first and ask for any tips. If the switch can not be fixed does anyone know the cheapest place to buy them? Thanks, Kevin Kelly From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:10:09 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:10:09 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Headlight Washers I was getting the Range Rover ready for the drive up to Lake Tahoe tomorrow and I noticed that my windshield/rear window/headlight washer fluid tank was half full despite the fact that I filled it a week ago. My headlight washer hose had been rubbing against the front fender and it had sprung a small leak. Instead of buying a new hose I cut the part of the hose with the hole out and replaced it with an inexpensive in line fuel filter. I figured having the filter might reduce the chance of the sprayers clogging. The filter did not seem to reduce the pressure or amount of water sprayed. I also rerouted the hose and covered it with plastic wire loom cover where it touches the fender so I won't have any more leaks. Kevin Kelly From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:10:12 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:10:12 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Hi-Lift Jack on Yakima Racks I am going to have four people in the Range Rover so I couldn't just fold down the back seat and throw the Hi-Lift jack in. I found an easy way to bolt it to my Yakima racks right next to the skis. I used two Yakima plastic SnapArounds with the bolt threads facing up. I put the bolts through the holes in the jack and then tightened it down with a nut and lock washer over a big washer. I put an old bike lock cable though the jack, wrapped it around the crossbar and locked it with a small lock to stop someone from walking off with it. Kevin Kelly From Landy88@aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:12:49 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:12:49 -0500 From: Landy88@aol.com Subject: TICKING IN A 2.25 Petrol I have a strange ticking coming from my Ser III 88. I have the original 2.25 petrol with only 39k miles. I have a ticking that starts about five minutes after ignition and get progressively louder..I suspect tappet wear. However, the ticking stops under heavy acceleration and worsens upon deceleration. Also, it is not very rhythmic. Kind of a tap,tap........tap, tap, tap.....tap,tap thing. Any suggestions? I've tried valve adjustment, but it only changes the rhythm slightly,,,also, valve adjustment seems dynamic on this vehicle....an adjustment and two hundred miles equals out of adjustment again..... Would like some input before the $1000 tappet assembly replacement.....Also, any good Series Rover mechanics in Western Mass or nearby? I have a good mechanic, but he is more of the RR type. I need a good old-fashioned Series III guy. From Landy88@aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:12:50 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:12:50 -0500 From: Landy88@aol.com Subject: TO Barnett Childress Sorry if this is addressed incorrectly, as I get the digest and can't reply..... As this is the Christmas season....Allelujah...... One of the biggest problems I've seen in my tenure as a British Vehicle owner (MGs to Triumphs to Rovers) is the snobbery between owners..... I guess it is to be expected, as being different is part of the joy of ownership of what is sometimes an unappealingly problematic machine......(Those other vehicles, I mean). I am currently the owner of a '72 Ser III 88 and a '68 Ser IIa 88. I would like to have any number of other models for their respective appeals..from the older 80"s up to the 130 TDI. I might even spring for a Rangie one day....... I guess what bothers me is the increasing lack of camaraderie between owners. Only a short while ago, any LRO on the road would acknowledge me (and I he/she) in passing. Many newer owFrom landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Fri Dec 29 03:32:13 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:32:13 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Tire Wear Larry's asks about tire wear... >Series III petrol. Vehicle has 117,000 PLUS miles. At first I thought it .....snip..... >Before I tackle track rod ends, swivel joints, shim plates, etc. as a whole, >does anyone have a specific area I should look at first? - You could look for obvious wear in the front end by jacking up the front axel under the springs and wiggle the tire side-to-side and top-to-bottom. If the swivel bearings/bushings have excessive wear it should show up when you wiggle the tire top to bottom. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From w1eox@ix.netcom.com (Yves Feder) Fri Dec 29 03:44:40 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:44:40 -0800 From: w1eox@ix.netcom.com (Yves Feder) Subject: The warm glow of burnished wood panels >Right! A Discovery looks like a Jaguar like a VW Beetle looks like a Porshe. >I don't care how much wood trim you have (inside or out!). >Now there's a thought, wood paneling on the outside. A "woody" Disco! >Perfect for surfing. In our Series truck, I installed the following wood panelling: - a sheet 1/2" ext ply on the cargo bed. Formerly part of our barn shed roof, before redoing it..... has lots of nice nail holes, knots, paint and tar stains. All genuine antique. The warm glow of the fine burnished all-American plywood lends a subdued air of beluga-like distinction to the cargo bay. And it keeps the sharp ends of our local salt hay from mutilating the fine british-light-green finish on the LR bed. Also hate to bruise the aluminum runners whilst loading raw firewood when in the woods. - A creosote pressure treated railroad tie section, the width of the vehicle, held in place just abaft the stern with two fabricated 3/8" mild steel brackets secured to the rear frame members. Excellent rear bumper protection. And the aroma of creosoted timber on a hot summer day is pretty neat too.. Yves Albert (Al "Al") Feder w1eox@ix.netcom.com Harpsichord Workshops and Recording Studios "Danged if'n I unnerstand all I know" From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 29 7:36:49 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 7:36:49 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack Dave, Thanks for the reply. I did call my dealer LRMW, and Jim Pappas put a brochure aside for me. He also said that the rack looked "serious", and very well made, possibly by Safety Devices? But he wasn't sure. I agree with you. I was also concerned about height, and the extra weight so high up. Here in New England most trails are in the woods, and there can be some steep side hills to traverse. Clearance and weight could be a problem. However some of the other D90 owners I have off-roaded with have installed the Hella 3000's across the front top of their roll cages and they don't seem to have any problems with clearance. The lights are about 9" high. So my main concern is the added weight. I also wonder how difficult it would be to install and remove the canvas top with the rack in place? Another option would be to use the inside cage support that runs across the back of the seats. It's possible to secure a Hi-lift, Max Axe, or shovel there. Then you could fabricate a small simple rack to carry two spare jerry cans back on the tire. This would keep the center of gravity lower. I have seen the Masterack storage lockers they look like there well built. I would not be able to mount them on the wheel boxes because I will be fitting two inward facing bench seats there, but I was thinking about mounting one between the wheel boxes just behind the cage support and making it removable. That way I could fold up the seats, remove the storage locker and still have the maximum cargo area when I need to haul things. I'll let you know how it all turns out. Thanks, Barnett 95 D90 AA yellow (unnamed but thinking!) From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 29 8:18:20 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 8:18:20 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Lack of camaraderie Dear Landy, I think the reason series owners sometimes feel apart from new owners is the fact that SOME newer owners don't know or care to know about the heritage and history of Land Rover. They bought the vehicle because it will safely get them to and fro in bad weather, and they might not ever take their vehicle off-road (and thats okay). Land Rover is not that well known to non-enthusiasts in the US. All they have seen for many years are Range Rovers. I know for a fact that I have talked to people who don't know Range Rover is made by Land Rover! Series owners are a different breed, with a different attitude. They take pride in the work it takes to build and restore a classic. They Know what a LR is capable of. Some newer owners (like myself) have bought LR's because we recognize and enjoy the full potential of our vehicles as mush as series owners do. When I went to my first LR rally in Maine this year a lot of the series owners were joking with me, "Has this thing ever been off-road?" "Are you going to try the trail you might get your truck dirty!" Etc. It was all in good fun. I told them I had been off-road many times and it was not a sin to wash off the mud! After a great trail ride everyone new owners and series owners banded together and had a great time. I like talking to series owners because there are a lot of things about the series vehicles I prefer over the current LRNA options, like rear seats for one. Camaraderie is alive and well between all LR owners who know and love the history behind these machines. If I see ya I'll wave. Barnett Childress 95 D90. From Duncan Brown Fri Dec 29 08:24:08 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 08:24:08 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Ticking in a 2.25 petrol > I've tried valve adjustment, but it only changes the rhythm slightly,,,also, > valve adjustment seems dynamic on this vehicle....an adjustment and two > hundred miles equals out of adjustment again..... Here is your Big Clue. If you adjust them and one or more slowly CLOSE again over time, you very likely have a burned valve. As more of the valve head and seat wear away, it collapses farther up into the head, closing the gap. If the adjustments just wander around (Never Twice the Same Clearance?) then you most likely have a flattened roller on one or more tappets. That would certainly account for the erratic tapping noise- when it's on a flat spot, the gap widens and you get tapping, when it happens to hit on a non-worn spot the gap closes and no tapping. Duncan From STEVE COX Fri Dec 29 08:17:56 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 08:17:56 -0500 (EST) From: STEVE COX Subject: Scratches >Subject: Getting rid of scratches >Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 18:38:43 -0500 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >Anyways here it goes. >Has anyone have any suggestions for removing scratches from branches? ***SNIP*** >Gary Mitchelson >Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 18:38:43 -0500 Dear Gary, Re: your question on removing scratches from branches... I would really think that you would be OK to just leave the branches scratched... most woodland creatures, and even most people in the woods would think the marks on the branches came from a natural source (Deer rubbing their antlers, Bears scratching their backsides, mice racing their little feet, etc.). If you are really, really concerned -- I would seek the advice of a good tree surgen. Regards, Steve Cox From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 29 9:21:09 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 9:21:09 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Rear rack v.s roof rack John, I agree tipability depends on what's up there. Thanks for the info on extra noise. HMMMMM this is going to be a hard one to decide... Barnett Too many things to buy and not enough money! Childress From russ burns Fri Dec 29 06:47:23 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 06:47:23 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Range Rover Power Seat Switches Regardless of what the manual states, you can repair the switches. It is a pain, and be careful of all the round bb's that will roll all over the kitchen floor. But by cleaning the switch contacts it will work again. Russ Burns (been there, done that) 91 R-ROver 94 D-90 At 12:10 AM 12/29/95 -0500, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >The power passenger seat back in my '89 Range Rover will not tilt forward (it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >Thanks, >Kevin Kelly Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 29 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 29 Dec 95 09:53:18 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: TICKING IN A 2.25 Petrol In addition to what Duncan said, you might also crank the engine with the valve cover removed. The tappet assembly gets oil through the rear mount, and then passes through the shaft forward to each of the rockers. As the rocker shaft wears, the clearance between the rockers and the shaft increases and you start to loose oil to the forward rockers. Since your engine does not have many miles on it, I would be surprised if it the rocker shaft is to worn. It could be that the passage is blocked. Either way, you can quickly get an idea of the condition of the rocker shaft by watching the oil flow through the assembly. The flow to each of the rockers should be the same. My engine had about 200,000 miles on it and the shaft was in awful shape, but I think it cost about $250 to replace it. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 29-Dec-1995 From Ray Harder Fri Dec 29 09:09:15 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 09:09:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: ROAV's Sun Visors...... On Thu, 28 Dec 1995 RICKCRIDER@aol.com wrote: > Subject: ROAV's Sun Visors...... > The visor itself is very heavy aluminum plate, straight as an arrow, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Haven't installed it yet. Actually haven't even painted it yet. Doesn't > look to be any problem at all though. for the record, how were the ones finished 20-30 years ago. painting i assume. the limestone white, or the body color. enquiring minds (and visor owners) want to know... ray harder (siia 88 (lulu)) From clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Fri Dec 29 07:54:29 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:54:29 +0000 From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Subject: Introduction I have been listening in to the Land-Rover net so felt it was about time to introduce myself. Home is now in Castro Valley in the San Francisco Bay Area. I used to live in England where I had a SIII 88" 1981. One of my sons had a S1 1948 soft top which was fun to drive altho one had to hunch forward to see below the top of the windshield. He now has a 90TD. We used to use the S1 to tow a trailer loaded with hay across deeply mudded hills to the animals. Here in the US I have a SII of 1959 with tropical roof and huge fan. Maybe it was in South Africa as all good landrovers were at some time in their lives! Have yet to trace it's life story - it had been six years in a barn before I found it. It has no brake system and needs new outriggers on the front of the chassis so my husband and I are about to take it apart and do a rebuild. May need help with the welding as neither of us has done any welding. I brought this landrover here in a 20 ft container and picked it up at the docks in Oakland and brought it home on a transporter, put in some gas, added a new battery and drove it into our garage where it will undergo it's rebuild. Only problem was: when I turned off the engine and removed the key, the engine kept on running! Not bad after six years in a barn. In 1992 I bought a new Jeep Wrangler - the nearest thing which looked like a rover at that time, as I hadn't seen any landrovers over here - it is a good vehicle but still feels very light and like a toy compared to the old rovers. Talking of old rovers, my dad had a 1934 Rover car when I was little and I learnt to drive on a Rover 90 I think it was (car not landrover). More later - so pleased to have met you all. Telephone number (510) 581-9180. Carol From clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Fri Dec 29 07:56:35 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:56:35 +0000 From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Subject: Introduction >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:40:32 >To: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Subject: Introduction >I have been listening in to the Land-Rover net so felt it was about time to introduce myself. Home is now in Castro Valley in the San Francisco Bay Area. I used to live in England where I had a SIII 88" 1981. One of my sons had a S1 1948 soft top which was fun to drive altho one had to hunch forward to see below the top of the windshield. He now has a 90TD. We used to use the S1 to tow a trailer loaded with hay across deeply mudded hills to the animals. >Here in the US I have a SII of 1959 with tropical roof and huge fan. Maybe it was in South Africa as all good landrovers were at some time in their lives! Have yet to trace it's life story - it had been six years in a barn before I found it. It has no brake system and needs new outriggers on the front of the chassis so my husband and I are about to take it apart and do a rebuild. May need help with the welding as neither of us has done any welding. I brought this landrover here in a 20 ft container and picked it up at the docks in Oakland and brought it home on a transporter, put in some gas, added a new battery and drove it into our garage where it will undergo it's rebuild. Only problem was: when I turned off the engine and removed the key, the engine kept on running! Not bad after six years in a barn. >In 1992 I bought a new Jeep Wrangler - the nearest thing which looked like a rover at that time, as I hadn't seen any landrovers over here - it is a good vehicle but still feels very light and like a toy compared to the old rovers. Talking of old rovers, my dad had a 1934 Rover car when I was little and I learnt to drive on a Rover 90 I think it was (car not landrover). >More later - so pleased to have met you all. >Telephone number (510) 581-9180. >Carol >Subject: Introduction From Treit Le 29 95 Dec 1910 Date: 29 Dec 95 10:35:31 From: Treit Le Subject: Re: kerosene on the debate... >Owning a Disco has been one of the great joys of this > last year...until earlier today. >I happened to have lunch in a badly infested area (with yup's) >of Santa Monica (California) this afternoon and parked > directly in front of a brand-new (sparkling!) Beluga Black > 1996 Discovery. A well-dressed couple and a nicely > groomed Labrador Retriever (accessory?) were getting out >at the same time I was pulling up. >It turns out they bought their car two days ago, love it dearly >(more than their Porsche) and had the wood panelling installed yesterday. >Wood Panelling??!!! >Inside a Land Rover?! Of course. It is used a a dampening material for the CD changer:) Actually a very popular option. Can't understand why it costs $2000US for a couple strips of wood glued on. But plenty of other people do the same with carbon fiber in VW's and Hondas. Wood comes installed with all new RR's. I personally don't like it since it scratches easily. I covet the half leather, half wood Jaguar steering wheels though. Triet Le (dressed somewhat poorly as laundry not done in 2 months) '95 Classic ("Woody?") '86 Porsche 944 Turbo (No wood anywhere) No pets (groomed or otherwise) From Sanna@aol.com Fri Dec 29 11:31:25 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:31:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover Power Seat Switches >>I was going to try and take it apart tonight and try to fix it (the shop manual only tells how to replace the switch) but I thought I would post to the list first and ask for any tips. As they say: "Just do it!". I look at the seat switches as an almost annual maintenance item. I'm usually rebuilding one or the other at some time during the year. I have a bad habit of leaving the sunroof open during summer rainstorms. It's not hard at all. Just keep track of all the little balls, get some contact cleaner & Q-tips, and maybe a small file & tweezers. It's only about a ten minute job. Good luck. - Tony From lopezba@atnet.at Fri Dec 29 17:49:48 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:49:48 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Wood panelling Peter Marx wrote: >Dear Folk: >Owning a Disco has been one of the great joys of this last year...until >earlier today. >I happened to have lunch in a badly infested area (with yup's) of Santa >Monica (California) this afternoon and parked directly in front of a >brand-new (sparkling!) Beluga Black 1996 Discovery. A well-dressed couple >and a nicely groomed Labrador Retriever (accessory?) were getting out at >the same time I was pulling up. >It turns out they bought their car two days ago, love it dearly (more >than their Porsche) and had the wood panelling installed yesterday. >Wood Panelling??!!! >Inside a Land Rover?! >Waaaaa! Eeeek! (and various other caterwallings!) >It looked just like a Jag...only about three feet higher off the ground! >Maybe the Series owners will take an embarrassed Disco owner into their >ranks...? Please? >Peter Marx Dear Peter - welcome! All you have to do is rip out the A/C, get very stiff leaf springs, disconnect between 25 and 50 % of your spark plugs and constantly play a tape of extremely loud engine noise on the stereo, and you are practically one of us! Hope 96 is better for you Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 29 12:14:22 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:14:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Wood panelling On Fri, 29 Dec 1995 lopezba@atnet.at wrote: > Dear Peter - welcome! All you have to do is rip out the A/C, get very stiff > leaf springs, disconnect between 25 and 50 % of your spark plugs and > constantly play a tape of extremely loud engine noise on the stereo, and you > are practically one of us! ??? If you completely remove a couple of the spareplugs, you can do without the stereo too! Of course, for the full effect, the A/C stays in. It operates continuously in the winter, while in the summer, the heater runs full blast. :-) From David Rosenbaum Fri Dec 29 09:58:12 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 09:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:Rear rack vs roof rack and Hi-Lift question Dear Barnett, Thanks for your note. A couple of "armchair" observations: -from the photo on the brochure, it doesn't look like the LRNA rack would interfere much with removal/installation of soft top. Technique would have to differ since you might not be able to *fold* it till it was off. -storage of Hi-lift, shovel, etc. is possible behind the front seats, but it limits access to the rear, and if the tools get used on a trip, their mud ends up in an area that is more difficult to clean out (space behind front seats) than the front foot wells or rear load space. Also a Hi-Lift question: On the NAS D90 it looks like the front and rear bumpers are the only jackpoints for the vehicle. Jackall sells an extender which slips over the lifting part of their jack to insert into Defender frame members, but it doesn't look like it would bolt onto a Hi-Lift jack securely. Any Hi-Lift advice from other Land Rover owners? Best wishes, David From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 29 13:24:36 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:24:36 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Hi-Lift jack points Dave, The attachment slips over the Jaw of the jack and is bolted in place. I think it would work fine but I haven't ordered mine yet. My jack was a Christmas gift and came with the quick clamp and the mounting brackets, they look sturdy. Some people just use the jack as is directly under the front bumper then push the vehicle over. Good point about returning all the muddy gear behind the seats. It would be easier to have everything mounted outside, and probably more accessible too. Oh well, back to the drawing board. That full rack is sounding better all the time! Regards, Barnett. From David Rosenbaum Fri Dec 29 11:01:35 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:01:35 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:Hi-Lift jack points ....and roof rack for NAS D90 Barnett: Is your jack a "Hi-Lift" or a "Jack-All"? The extender for Defenders that I've seen advertised (in Land Rover Owner) slips over the lifting jaw and bolts to it through a hole in the jaw of the "Jack-All" The Hi-Lift has a cut-out in the jaw that is *not* round and doesn't look like it would securely support a bolt without wobbling. Regarding the height of the LRNA roof rack for the D90: Two small electric chain saws mounted with chains facing forward at the leading corners of the basket and remote switches mounted on the dash might take care of low branches over trails and provide *green* wood for camp fires - branch part drops into basket automatically (or onto windshield and hood!) BUT the chainsaws *might* attract dirt bikers :-{ Best, David From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Fri Dec 29 11:32:21 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:32:21 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Discovery radio Did the advice you got about leaving the radio off for an hour solve your problem? If not, it might be that your '92 radio is more closely related to mine, an '88. If so, in order to clear out erroneously entered numbers (in your case 154) so you can enter the correct code, you need to push and hold down the band (BND) button until the numbers clear. -Matt From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Fri Dec 29 11:35:58 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:35:58 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Getting rid of scratches The solution for me has been an orbital buffer and a polishing compound, called MALCO lite finish. I got the stuff by going to a detailer supply shop, where a fellow tried various things on the scratches until he found the mildest stuff that would take the scratches out. -Matt From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Fri Dec 29 11:43:11 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:43:11 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Range Rover Power Seat Switches This was discussed in some detail a few months ago, and in fact the thread might be in the RR FAQ if there is one. There are three solutions: 1. If you don't adjust the seat very often, it's possible to remove the switch, disconnect the two plugs from the bottom, and use two jumper wires to activate the motor to put the seat into a comfortable position. 2. You can open the switch, clean the contacts, and reassemble. This will require some patience, as there at least 50 little parts inside. 3. You can buy a replacement switch. The cheapest source would be a Mercedes wrecking yard, and the second cheapest source would be a Mercedes dealer. -Matt '88 RR From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 29 14:49:47 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 14:49:47 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Hi-Lift jack points ....and roof rack for NAS D90 Dave, I have a Jack All 8000. Great tip for clearing forest trails and gathering firewood but I believe that "old fashioned reliable chain saws" would work best on Series Rover's. Newer NAS Rover's would have to be equipped with something a little more modern. Something complicated, with a lot of moving parts, remotely powered, and possibly laser aimed with some sort of video display on the dash to let you know if it's on or not? I hear LRNA is secretly working on this as we speak. There biggest problems to date have been keeping up the "Tread Lightly" theme, and or course USA DOT Safety approval! Barnett. From "John R. Benham" Fri Dec 29 11:59:17 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:59:17 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Land Rover for sale! Dear LRO's, A local friend and Rover owner is selling one of his Land Rovers. So here are the particulars: Land Rover 1969 SIIA late model Hard top Limestone 15" wheels/tires No modifications Super straight All original $8,000. obo Contact Brent Rosengrant: 208.267.6507 Land Rover and Brent are in Bonners Ferry, Idaho Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA From John Brabyn Fri Dec 29 12:05:35 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: LRNA and supply of Rovers On Sat, 9 Dec 1995 ericz@cloud9.net wrote: > The reason that LRNA doesn't bring any more D90s into the US is quite simple: > They want to restrict the supply to justify charging astronomical prices for the > Defenders. This is also the reason that they "discourage" any form of > importation of other LR vehicles (Including pre-'67). LRNA is in the business of > supplying limited edition status symbols, not Land Rovers. Now Now folks -- LRNA, unlike the members of this list, has to make a profit out of Land Rovers. Otherwise their importation would once again cease and we would all be back to where we were pre 1987. Just a thought-- Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Gary Mitchelson Fri Dec 29 15:39:24 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 15:39:24 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Scratches -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Re: your question on removing scratches from branches... I would really think > that you would be OK to just leave the branches scratched... most woodland > creatures, and even most people in the woods would think the marks on the > branches came from a natural source (Deer rubbing their antlers, Bears > scratching their backsides, mice racing their little feet, etc.). If you are > really, really concerned -- I would seek the advice of a good tree surgen. Thanks Steve, I was trying to return natureto the way it was before I trampled it. The other option was to collect all the damaged branches and make some wood paneling for the dash. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From John Brabyn Fri Dec 29 12:44:24 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Looks like a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since this inquiry, but I can clarify a couple of points from the responses etc: 1. The viscous diff lock is certainly effective, and allows only just enough movement to prevent binding. For example, in a tight turn on concrete the tires squeal. One advantage not often mentioned is that it should help prevent breakage of axles and other drive train parts during four wheeling in conditions such as rocks where most folks lock up for better traction, but where it's like being on pavement as far as the excess binding forces are concerned. The other advantage is you get maximum traction at all times without having to think about it -- useful when you are going over varying road surfaces. 2. The reason it's not used on Discos and Defenders is that it's probably more expensive and is incorporated in a new chain driven Borg Warner transfer case that's quieter and was developed specially for the RR. 3. Same applies to the suspension system which in the RR is superior to any other vehicle, Land Rover or not, for off road use. The early ones have a Boge self energising load levelling device not fitted to other models, allowing softer springs, which combined with the absence of sway bars allow the vehicle to maintain exceptional ground contact force on all four wheels. This gives outstanding traction on uneven terrain, even without limited slip or locking diffs in the axles. On the later ones similar benefits accrue from the air suspension and traction control. The new shape RR also has air and traction control but with harder spring rates and less travel, so it remains to be seen whether it's as good off road. Hope this totally unbiased treatment adds some spark to the discussion!! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, William Owen wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I've started looking for a 87-90 (maybe even a 91 if I wait a few [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)] > Thanks in advance for all your help. > A hopefully soon to be Range Rover owner From John Brabyn Fri Dec 29 12:52:49 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:52:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: New Range Rover Great news about the rumour of more US spec 90's! Re the new Range Rover, though I am disappointed in some of its features such as reduced departure and breakover angles, stiffer ride and reduced suspension travel, it seems at least to be able to run rings around the 4x4's made by other manufacturers, when it comes to off road performance, from the comparison reviews I've seen. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Four Wheeler of the Year writeup in Four Wheeler magazine next year says about it -- I assume it would be one of the contenders?? It would be neat if a Land Rover product won 3 years in a row (94 was the Defender, 95 the Discovery -- plus the Range Rover win in 89). Cheers John Brabyn 89RR On Thu, 14 Dec 1995 KKelly6788@aol.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > >Ever look at the new Range Rover?? Those cars were never meant for off road [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > 110 he responded "no comment" > Kevin Kelly From Russell Burns Fri Dec 29 13:30:47 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:30:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Scratches I am a little confused by all this, but if you painted your landrover with a good quality tree tar, all the scratched should heal. Russ Burns > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > garym@racalrecord.com > Racal Recorders, Inc. From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Fri Dec 29 17:40:02 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:40:02 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Re: ROAV's Sun Visors...... In a message dated 95-12-29 10:14:57 EST, you write: > The visor itself is very heavy aluminum plate, straight as an arrow, >> beautiful breaks and bends. Nicely ground edges. Nicely machine punched [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >> The aluminum visor is almost too pretty to paint. >> Haven't installed it yet. Actually haven't even painted it yet. Doesn't >> look to be any problem at all though. > for the record, how were the ones finished 20-30 years ago. painting [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >(and visor owners) want to know... >ray harder (siia 88 (lulu)) Ray: I don't know the *official* color scheme for the visors.......I'm gonna paint mine limestone to match the top. Gonna leave the galvanized brackets as they are except for coating the exposed edges with some cold zinc galvanizing compound. Cheers....... Rick Crider From "Mugele, Gerry" Fri Dec 29 15:21:00 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 15:21:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Diesel Trivia Some time back Christopher Boese questioned the lack of diesels in the US and speculated: >Is it an emission thing? BTW, >Mercedes no longer can sell diesels in California, even though they've developed a soot-reducing >catalytic converter-style "afterburner." Uh...not true. The MB 300D is still available, even in Calif. I had to check to be sure but it is. I drove one last year and they are surprisingly smooth, quiet and odor/soot free. It is a new (two or three years old) 6-cylinder engine, naturally (for a diesel) aspirated - that is to say no turbo. I believe HP was around 135; quite good for a 3 liter oil burner. But I think your original presumption that emissions are the problem is correct for the other manufacturers. And in the US diesels generally have very limited market appeal. That combined with EPA hassles and various idiot inspired regulations create a diesel hostile market. I think MB can do it because for so long they were identified with quality diesel passenger cars in the US. I should think that the TDi must be fairly close to meeting the requirements though so I agree with Kevin Kelly: >If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter >to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a >few letters. Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the >letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change >their mind. Right or wrong it couldn't hurt. I've wanted a new diesel LR for 27 years now... Gerry M 72 88 *** Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 29 95 Dec EST 1918 Date: 29 Dec 95 18:54:59 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Lucas 761 Dixon asks for info on the LU 761 Rear light. My 67, 69 and 70 Lucas catalogues list the 761 , "stop. tail and number plate lamp as fitted to the 88, 109 and 2b FC models. The US spec is listed as fitted with the 692 stop and tail light. and a separate number plate lamp. Happy New Year Regards Bill Leacock, Limey in exile. From "John C. White, III" Fri Dec 29 16:28:51 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 16:28:51 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Wood panelling Watch out, Peter Marx. These Series guys can get kind of mean. Just toss them a can of 90wt. Calms them right down, it does. ;-) Cheers! John '95 Discovery (Say it loud! I'm plush, and I'm proud!) At 17:49 29.12.95 +0100, lopezba@atnet.at wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Peter Marx wrote: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] >Peter Hirsch >SI 107in S/W From marick@nwlink.com (Rick Harrison) Fri Dec 29 19:22:58 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 19:22:58 -0800 From: marick@nwlink.com (Rick Harrison) Subject: Ex-MOD 109 for sale. I'm selling my baby (109) to buy/build a new baby (D90). Series III 109 Military, 12V, NATO flat green, Frame off Rebuild over winter '92/'93, Chevy 250 six (well sorted conversion, really), Late IIA Gearbox (the one that can take it), 3.54 Salisbury rear axle, Range rover 3.54 Front, Selectro Frewheel hubs, Oil cooler, Full length Hard top w/side windows and tropical skin (winter), MOD Roll bar and Full length Canvas (w/o windows, for summer), Tailgate and full length rear door, Military suspension, Reinforced front axle housing, 19 gallon fuel tank in the rear (outside fill), 8000Lb. 2 speed winch, Bull bar, 90% BFG Mud Terrains, AM/FM Cassette, No frame changes done for the engine conversion so it could easily be converted back to 2-1/4 engine. Garaged, Absolutely no rust anywhere, Smooth running, tight Land Rover and excellent off road (except in those pesky tight spots where the 109 turning circle shows up.), Only about 10k miles since the rebuild. Located in Everett, Washington (Seattle Metro area) $14,000 Rick Harrison, marick@nwlink.com 206-337-1185 ___________ /_"___"___"_\ | | | [|______|______|] Mari and Rick /___\_____/___\ marick@nwlink.com |(@) [|||||] (@)| 206-337-1185 | o [|||||] o | ======+++++====== |%|=={&}======|%| |%| |%| Color it GREEN! From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Dec 29 22:45:51 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:45:51 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Noisy roof racks and other matters Barnett Childress writes: >Does a roof rack add a lot of noise when driving on the highway? I have a full length Brownchurch rack on my 88 constructed out of 3/4" square tube stock. As it was hot-dipped, all of the sections have holes to let the galvanizing in and the air out during the bath. Anyway, when the forward vs cross wind is just right, these things get *musical* with all these weird little hoots and whistles. Roger Peng writes: >...provided it comes at a stripped down price. Look at the Defender 90, >that's a pretty stripped down vehicle, but it costs over 30K... You can thank Uncle Sam and Detroit lobbyists for that price tag. The Defender as well as all off-shore 2 door sport-utes pay a 25% tarriff. For that reason, Rover's profit margin is *very* slim on the D-90, the prime reason, I think, why it is being withdrawn. And John White writes: >Here's to the Revolution, comrades! I like to think back to the time that the local dealer invited ROAV over for the "unveiling" of the 110. (Free food and drinks - they didn't have to ask twice!) They probably figured that we would add a certain air of 'rusticality' to the whole proceeding. Anyway, a group of us shows up in various greasy/grimy/leaking 22-35 year old vehicles. Curiously bypassing the drinks (for a while) two immediately popped the bonnet and three others slid underneath. (Never been under a Rover and laid on carpet before...) I don't think *anyone* else (staff, sales people) there had *ever* done that. We haven't been asked back.... And Landy88@aol.com asks about non-rythmic tapping sounds: Depends upon where its coming from. Beg/borrow/steal a set of cheap, disposable stethoscopes and replace the chest piece with a bit of copper tubing. Check to see if the noise is coming from the front timing cover. If it is, the timing chain dampening device is loosening - it needs *immediate* attention. The consequences of the thing coming adrift at speed is similar to breaking a timing belt...not pretty. Tomorrow - the rear frame crossmember! Chaaarrgggeee..... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Chris Haslam Fri Dec 29 23:14:21 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: 88 RR: Self-emptying washer fluid reservoir There seems to be a minor epidemic of this at the moment! Mine empties to below the level of the front and rear pumps. I took the reservoir out. It spent overnight in the bathtub, and remained full! (I blocked off the pump outlet ports.) I have now replaced the hoses from the pump motors to the non-return valves with good rubber tubing: the old tubing (of the plastic, wine-making variety) seemed loose on the motor fittings. I will tell more when I know more. Two tips: - The "nuts" that hold the reservoir to the inner fender have a knurled outside that stops them turning, so loosen from the bolt-head end! - The port of the power (headlight) washer is fragile, and the 10 mm hose was firmly attached to it. If you need to get the reservoir out, cut the hose in some convenient place. Then, when you put the reservoir back in, use a piece of copper tubing between the two pieces of the hose. ...chris haslam Montreal, Canada From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 19 17:37:10 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 17:37:10 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: FW: Series 1 for sale ---------- From Andy Dingley Sat Dec 30 13:39:21 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:39:21 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Range Rover fuel tank sender I'm having problems with my fuel tank sender ('85 petrol carb Rangie) Despite changing the sender, I still get a gauge reading 2/3 full for a ful tank and empty for 1/4 full. I can't get the "almost empty" warning light either. Does anyone know what the correct sender resistances should be for full, empty and almost empty ? The Repair Ops Manual doesn't list them anywhere I've seen. My sender is the type with a separate contact for "almost empty", but there's no connection in the loom for it. The warning light on the dash is driven by a control unit that compares the sender resistance to a threshold value. If I fiddle about with shorting wires, I can get full tank and almost empty warnings on the dash, but I can't do this with the sender connected, even if I move the float by hand. Yes, the earth wire to the sender unit is good. Incidentally, if anyone else needs to change sender units, you'll need to special spanner to undo the bayonet fit locking ring. You can make your own very easily by taking the box spanner for the hub bearing nuts and sawing three notches into the rear end of it - the tube is just the right diameter. I did find (after three failed attempts) that you _can't_ change sender units without taking the tank off. You need to fit the sender to the tank on the bench, carefully checking that the locking lugs aren't bent and are clamping the rubber seal ring properly. Otherwise it leaks the first time you fil the tank to the brim. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk A Happy New Year to all our readers ! From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 30 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 30 Dec 95 12:19:59 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: 88 RR: Self-emptying washer fluid reservoir A common but not-so-well-known RR quirk. The (large) headlamp washer pump is prone to leaking (design flaw) in the sense that the valve inside doesn't close completely, and you constantly have a small amount of fluid dribbling from the jets/nozzles on the fenders/bumpers. That's why you usually don't notice the real source of the mysterious 'vanishing washer fluid' - the trickle can be so slight that fluid evaporates in summer before leaving any noticeable wet areas, and in autumn/winter when the vehicle is wet/damp most of the time anyway, you wouldn't notice either. Quick fix: Put a small clamp on the headlamp washer hose and disconnect (and insulate) the electrical leads from the big washer pump. This will leave you without lamp washer action but save you from having to fill the reservoir every other day... Stefan From lopezba@atnet.at Sat Dec 30 18:25:34 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 18:25:34 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: ROAV sun visors David Olley wrote about sun visors: >> for the record, how were the ones finished 20-30 years ago. painting >>i assume. the limestone white, or the body color. enquiring minds [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Paint it limestone! >Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 I always thought the tropical roofs were ivory in the S I and SII, limestone only came with the SIII. And that would not be above the waist, either, but just the roof, not the superstructure. Probably wrong! Anybody know? Have a good 1996, and may this be our biggest problem! Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 30 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 30 Dec 95 12:52:56 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Rodent in '93 County >to several other Range Rover owners in the area. Furthermore, I was also told >that this is not a scenario covered under my warranty and that it entails over >10 hours of labor at $60.00 an hour (apparently the engine needs to be removed). Hmmp, dealers... Well, I wouldn't want to rule out the possibility of critters in your heater, but they only could've gotten in there from the *inside* of the vehicle. There is truly, absolutely no way anything larger than an flea can get into a RR's heating/vent system from the outside or the engine bay. Ask the dealer to show/demonstrate to you in a feasible way how this should at all be possible. As for the engine removal crap - *all* of the RR's ventilation/ heating/air ducts/fans/heater matrix/etc./whatever is located *inside* the vehicle *behind* the fire wall. Removing the engine in order to work on the heating system is about as neccessary as drilling a hole in your foot. The only labour-intensive work involved is pulling out and reassembling the entire front panel w/dash, 'louvres', tray etc. But anyone who has done this a couple of times wouldn't need more than, say, 3 hours all told. Add another hour for actually clearing and cleaning up the system, and that should be it. By all means get a second or third opinion on this before you give away money for nothing... Stefan From "geoffrey.m.halaburt" 30 95 Dec 1914 Date: 30 Dec 95 14:22:43 From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt" Subject: re:Rear rack vs. roof rack Barnett writes about his quest for storage.... Here are two ideas: ** The first I saw in use last Fall on a D110 in Moab, UT. It was very well equipped for expeditioning, but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to talk with the owner. It had the (Rovers North, I think) hood-mount spare setup. With the spare gone from the back door, it had a special (custom?) steel box-like affair mounted at the rear. It was holding 1 (or was it 2?) jerry cans plus a bunch of tow rope and other tools. On the D90 softtop, you could probably rig something like that to the swing-away tire mount. ** The Rovers North "D90 Safari Roof Rack" shown on page 2 of their '96 parts & accessories catalog looks very good. It is about 1/2 the length of the roof and mounts on the front rollcage above the doors. If my experience with the dealer-bought Thule crossbars (for bikes, etc.) is an indicator, this is an exceptionally strong setup and yet is relatively easy to remove (unlike the new rack #LRNA90FSRR shown in the D90-SW brochure). With this you could mount jerry cans, hi-lift jack, etc. up top or put the spare up there and setup a "box" in the rear like I mentioned in idea #1 to keep the cans/tools more easily accessible. I'm pondering all the same things for my new D90-SW (replaced a '94 D90-softtop), so keep us posted. -Geoff (geoffrey.m.halaburt) San Anselmo, CA, USA '95 D90-SW (#167/500) From Sanna@aol.com Sat Dec 30 15:57:21 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 15:57:21 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: TICKING IN A 2.25 Petrol >>However, the ticking stops under heavy acceleration and worsens upon deceleration A regular "ticking" doesn't quite fit, but your acceleration/decceleration symptom might point to the timing chain, a traditionally weak-point in LR's if your oil pressure isn't up to snuff. Put a timing light on it, and if the mark jumps around on decceleration (just goose the linkage), it's the chain. - Tony From Landy88@aol.com Sat Dec 30 16:10:31 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 16:10:31 -0500 From: Landy88@aol.com Subject: Ticking in LR 2.25 Thanks, I figured it was the tappets.....For the same logic Duncan used. Just didn't want to put the estimated $1000 into it if I was not sure....I'm about 1000 miles from my tools and shop in Ga. Plus Mass winters aren't great working environments this time of year without a good shop. Any suggestions on Series mechanics in western Mass or nearby? My current mechanic is great with Jags and RRs, but hasn't much experience with Series trucks. Seems to think it will require engine removal.....I've heard both ways. Any experience here? How major is the overhaul? I've put about three and 1/2 years into the resto so far, but all I've done to the engine is have the valves and head done and done a bore inspection. Again, the engine only has 39k miles. Is it possible to change the tappets without removal of anything but the head/manifolds? Should I go ahead and replace the cam bearings? Should I put in a small block chevy? (Just for reaction........I'll die first). Where is the best source of supply for interior parts? I need some of the interior panels for the hardtop. Mine were refininshable, but the backing boards got wet and warped. Thanks for all your help.......... From JCassidyiv@aol.com Sat Dec 30 16:24:19 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 16:24:19 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Critters and Miscellaneous The thread about rodents hits home for me. The first winter I had my Jeep GC, I turned the heater fan on high and heard a scurrying noise and then a ka-chunk, followed by rough running of the fan. I had a sinking feeling that something with four legs had just met his/her demise in my new Jeep! I took it to the dealer quite a while later(heater still worked) and told them it was probably going to be a body recovery job-they came back and told me that they found 1/2 a rat in the heating duct, but they couldn't find the other! Another reason to sell the damn thing-maybe the new owner has found/smelled it by now! 2.) I also need to patch the aluminum seat base on the drivers side in the back bottom corner where the seat belt connects. Any thoughts/experiences would be helpful! 3.) Discovery rear bumper strength: I was backing out of our garage a couple of months ago(too embarassed to admit it to the list 'til now!) and backed right into my parked Kubota diesel tractor, almost tipping it onto its side. My wife's bumper ended up with a reversed raeydooG imprinted on it with a cracked turn signal(the one in the bumper). Repair was $78 for the turn signal at the dealer. I asked them afterwards why they could just replace the light lens(lights worked fine) and it turns out that LR only supplies the whole unit. Didn't even get the old assembly back! 4.) Can someone tell me what the largest tires I can fit on my '87 RR with the OME springs-I want something a little larger. 5.) Just purchased a pair of Hella Rallye 3000 lights for the RR. Atlantic British wanted $349 for the pair. The local VIP Dicount Auto store had them for $112/each. I'll let you know how they are when I hook them up! Sorry for all the bandwith, Cheers! John Cassidy Bangor, Maine From CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Sat Dec 30 17:53:09 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 17:53:09 From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: looking for 109 frame >Hi > I am Rob & new to this digest. However as I have never found any >Land Rover owner who would refuse to help another owner with a >problem. > I hope some one out there will be able to help me. My father owns >a 1968 109 three door land rover which needs a frame badly. (not >drivable) This is more then just a project needing parts. I am >using this project to get my Father busy after a stroke this year. >Money is tight for me and I need to locate & purchase a useable >used frame that I can repair for his LR. This will keep him active >for atleast the coming year. If anyone knows where I could locate >a frame please email me with. as much information as you have. I >know that new frames are available but they are to expensive at [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Regards & thanks > Rob From NADdMD@aol.com Sat Dec 30 17:51:40 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 17:51:40 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Caulk: The electron peacekeeper? I'm replacing my rusted out toolbox with a new galvinized replacement. After removing the old one, I've cleaned the aluminium but I'm wondering if I can caulk the edges before riveting in the new toolbox. Does silicone caulk effectively form a barrier between the two and prevent corrosion? From NADdMD@aol.com Sat Dec 30 17:54:21 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 17:54:21 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Caulk and battling electrons Sorry, I accidently sent out the previous caulking question before I signed it. Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Sat Dec 30 18:19:01 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 18:19:01 From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: looking for 109 frame >Hi > I am Rob & new to this digest. However as I have never found any >Land Rover owner who would refuse to help another owner with a >problem. > I hope some one out there will be able to help me. My father owns >a 1968 109 three door land rover which needs a frame badly. (not >drivable) This is more then just a project needing parts. I am >using this project to get my Father busy after a stroke this year. >Money is tight for me and I need to locate & purchase a useable >used frame that I can repair for his LR. This will keep him active >for atleast the coming year. If anyone knows where I could locate >a frame please email me with. as much information as you have. I >know that new frames are available but they are to expensive at [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Regards & thanks > Rob From Softy90@aol.com Sat Dec 30 19:43:29 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 19:43:29 -0500 From: Softy90@aol.com Subject: Real World Sighting...a 110 & a 90 I just saw a Def 110, #238/500, and a 95 Def90, yellow with plastic hardtop, here in my hometown of Madison Wisconsin, up at a hotel on the square by the capitol building. Both had Pennsylvania plates. Any one know who? And if they are list members? probably not reading list since theyre out of town now. But boy, what a coincedence, a Defender Hootenany... The carparker said the same guy owns both, his brother is driving the 110, he was in the new defender. I need a ride in that hardtop model, gotta see how much quieter it REALLY is than the soft top. And I'd love all those fancy-assed (plushmobile??) features that the 95's have, like map pockets in the doors, keyed entry for the rear (ouch...), and doors that actually stay open instead of swinging back and severing feet at the ankles... John 1994 Defender90, softtop in Wisc. PS...we just got a skiff of snow, boy is it slick out there, think I'll go out for a ride... From Rick Grant Sat Dec 30 21:27:24 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 21:27:24 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Paris Dakar & LR's The Paris-Dakar race has started and there are at least three LR's in it, two from France and one from Spain. The Web page for the race is www.dakar.com/ Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 30 95 Dec EST 1923 Date: 30 Dec 95 23:19:10 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco winch bumpers Anybody out there have a replacment winchmount/bumper on their Disco? I know of 3 that are made. ARB, TJM and Safari Gard. I just bought a Superwinch X9000 for $430 new in the box and it nees a home on the front of the Disco. I'm looking for comments on the various products available. I know that I do not want to mount it behind the stock bumper as I do not want to alter the stock bumper (just remove it), and I want it more accesable that with a "hidden mount". Any advice would be appreciated. Mark Ritter From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 30 95 Dec EST 1923 Date: 30 Dec 95 23:19:08 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Safari Gard Rock Sliders I finally got the Rock sliders in just the other day. They are very high quality and the holes matched up perfectly with the ones used to mount the plastic sill "protection". Once installed it is hard to tell a difference in appearence from stock. I got the ones that protude about 1" out from the door as this gives a bit more protection without being noticeable. I can vouch for their strength as I slid the Disco down a bank into a river on the left one during a trail ride on Friday. No damage and the Slider didn't even budge(this was intentionally done to cross the river, deep and cold!) They provide great protection for the lower doors and the lower back edge of the front fenders which are VERY vulnerable. The only downside is that the installation is time consuming unless you have a tool to compress the very big rivnuts that go into the holes in order to provide threads for the attaching bolts. Count on a few bashed knuckles. If you do mail order from Safari Gard be patient. It is a small company and everthing is made to order so don't expect your order to show up in a couple of weeks. Mark Ritter 94 Disco w/ lots of goodies. Winch is next!